So actually a shattered wall took out the Dallas Shooter

[dannyboys]

Kosher, you are out of your ever lovin' mind. The fellow had killed five people, injured 7 others, and still had his gun. Any way to take him out without further endangering innocent people was acceptable.

He was telling LE he had bombs planted and he could detonate them using his cell phone.

 

[dannyboys]

Actually it is.

Actually, no, it's not.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No death penalty before a trial. I know that LEO walk all over that, and say it's okay. But it's not, it never has been, and they should go to prison when they violate it. And stay there.

Sorry, the courts don't agree and they think you're a little batty.

Ok, maybe that last part was an embellishment.

The rights contained therein apply after an arrest, not before the arrest when the suspect poses a continuing threat to life.

And you said you're a parent and grandparent.

So if the cops were your kids, how many of your kids do you think should die in a futile effort to take someone into custody who's determined not to be taken alive?

Just need a number, sweetie.

The courts not agreeing with the constitution, along with the cops violating the constitution, are the biggest problem this country faces right now.

And it's one thing to kill someone when you are exchanging gunfire with them. It's another to just exterminate someone who is holed up.

How many of your kids should die? That was the question and the answer is a number.

Is this getting too personal?

Well I can answer for my 4 kids and that answer is ZERO! Kill that fucker twice before he endangers any of my babies.

My kids dying have nothing to do with anything, loser lol. My children were never in danger, and neither were yours.

I'm a LOT more concerned about my kids being targeted by pigs than I am about them being wiped out while mobbing in some city, or running crowd control on Americans who are pissed at the cops.

How many years have you spent in prison?
More than five, less than ten? Sound about right?
You have very serious anger issues with any authority figures.
Maybe you ought to speak with a professional BEFORE a 'professional' has to speak to you......again.

 

[dannyboys]

It would be an execution only if they plugged him after he was in custody, or had surrendered and was sitting there with his hands up. When you are still an active threat, there can be no execution.

You get your due process when you allow the process to start, i.e. you submit to lawful authority, not before.

Actually, no. That's not true.

Actually it is.

Actually, no, it's not.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No death penalty before a trial. I know that LEO walk all over that, and say it's okay. But it's not, it never has been, and they should go to prison when they violate it. And stay there.

That creates an impossible situation for any law enforcement. When you resist lawful arrest, you put your life in your own hands. when you resist lawful arrest with deadly force, deadly force is coming right back at ya.

So what was he doing when they blew him to kingdom come?

Sitting there?

Sitting there with a cell phone in his hand threatening to use the cell phone to trigger the bombs he claimed he had planted.
LE had to instantly kill the mother fucker before he could tap in the numbers to detonate the bombs he claimed to have planted. Or would you have 'assumed' the negro mother fucker was just lying?

 

[koshergrl]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

He killed 5 already and wasn't stopping. Since when does law enforcement have to bring in the person who won't give up? LEOs don't have to risk their lives arresting.

They could wait him out. There is absolutely no reason for them to set off bombs to neutralize a guy who is not able to escape. Again, we don't have death squads. At least we didn't used to.
Sturmabteilung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your tactical knowledge is severely lacking.

Bullshit. We don't need militarized, over armed cops who have no obligation to follow, nor understanding of, the constitution.

 

[koshergrl]

Actually, no, it's not.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No death penalty before a trial. I know that LEO walk all over that, and say it's okay. But it's not, it never has been, and they should go to prison when they violate it. And stay there.

Sorry, the courts don't agree and they think you're a little batty.

Ok, maybe that last part was an embellishment.

The rights contained therein apply after an arrest, not before the arrest when the suspect poses a continuing threat to life.

And you said you're a parent and grandparent.

So if the cops were your kids, how many of your kids do you think should die in a futile effort to take someone into custody who's determined not to be taken alive?

Just need a number, sweetie.

The courts not agreeing with the constitution, along with the cops violating the constitution, are the biggest problem this country faces right now.

And it's one thing to kill someone when you are exchanging gunfire with them. It's another to just exterminate someone who is holed up.

How many of your kids should die? That was the question and the answer is a number.

Is this getting too personal?

Well I can answer for my 4 kids and that answer is ZERO! Kill that fucker twice before he endangers any of my babies.

My kids dying have nothing to do with anything, loser lol. My children were never in danger, and neither were yours.

I'm a LOT more concerned about my kids being targeted by pigs than I am about them being wiped out while mobbing in some city, or running crowd control on Americans who are pissed at the cops.

How many years have you spent in prison?
More than five, less than ten? Sound about right?
You have very serious anger issues with any authority figures.
Maybe you ought to speak with a professional BEFORE a 'professional' has to speak to you......again.

Look up stockholm syndrome. You morons who want over armed cop squads who are under no obligation to uphold the constitution and who have no accountability for their actions, suffer from it.

 

[dannyboys]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

He killed 5 already and wasn't stopping. Since when does law enforcement have to bring in the person who won't give up? LEOs don't have to risk their lives arresting.

They could wait him out. There is absolutely no reason for them to set off bombs to neutralize a guy who is not able to escape. Again, we don't have death squads. At least we didn't used to.
Sturmabteilung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your tactical knowledge is severely lacking.

Bullshit. We don't need militarized, over armed cops who have no obligation to follow, nor understanding of, the constitution.

Whatever it takes to exterminate sub-humans is just fine with me.
You bring a stick to attack me I use a machine gun to defend myself.
You bring a machine gun I bring a fucking MOAB!

 

[Divine Wind]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

It appears Johnson shot two officers while "negotiating" from his fortified position behind the brick wall. The decision was made to knock down the wall in order to 1) avoid further danger to law enforcement officers, 2) neutralize the situation as quickly as possible and 3) remove the fortification Johnson was hiding behind.

If they had used a smaller charge, there was a risk it wouldn't work (i.e. wouldn't completely take down the wall) thus revealing the plan. Since Johnson claimed to have bombs, later found out to be a lie, it's understandable that Chief Brown authorized the plan as the quickest, most efficient means to stop Johnson.

I fail to see the problem here. If a SWAT sniper had a bead on Johnson and shot him in the head, would people be bitching about this?

 

[Divine Wind]

Whatever it takes to exterminate sub-humans is just fine with me.
You bring a stick to attack me I use a machine gun to defend myself.
You bring a machine gun I bring a fucking MOAB!

Translation: Kill all n***ers.

Love the ITG talk. It fits you.

 

[bodecea]

Yes I know what they do. They kill people. Often they kill the wrong people. It has nothing to do with the degree of threat...that guy wasn't posing a threat.

they fulfill the same role the SS fulfilled for the.nazis. Mindless fucking killers.

Ok, I'm with you on CPS kidnapping, but are you seriously defending the shooter here?

She is.

 

[bodecea]

and why the FUCK do our LEO have robotic bombers?

That's bullshit. Disarm the fucking cops. I've had it with their garbage. Let the cities burn.

"Disarm the fucking cops"....Allie 's idea....fabulous!

 

[koshergrl]

The objective is not to KILL suspects. Its to bring them into custody. You morons who think it's a good idea to let cops act as judge, jury, executioners arengoing tonseriiusly regret your stupidity in the very near future.

He killed 5 already and wasn't stopping. Since when does law enforcement have to bring in the person who won't give up? LEOs don't have to risk their lives arresting.

They could wait him out. There is absolutely no reason for them to set off bombs to neutralize a guy who is not able to escape. Again, we don't have death squads. At least we didn't used to.
Sturmabteilung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your tactical knowledge is severely lacking.

Bullshit. We don't need militarized, over armed cops who have no obligation to follow, nor understanding of, the constitution.

Whatever it takes to exterminate sub-humans is just fine with me.
You bring a stick to attack me I use a machine gun to defend myself.
You bring a machine gun I bring a fucking MOAB!

Yeah that's all fine and good except you seem to not understand who those death squads work for. They hate people who are legally armed.

 

[koshergrl]

Hey Westwall, I bet it feels good to know that dannyboys also defends death squads lolol.

 

[Divine Wind]

This CNN report neatly sums up the situation and why Chief Brown authorized using a robot to knock down the brick wall Johnson was using for cover: How robot, explosives killed Dallas sniper - CNN.com

Dallas Police Chief David Brown gave an order to his SWAT team after a 45-minute gun battle and two hours of negotiating with a sniper targeting police officers.

He told them to come up with a creative plan to neutralize the suspect without putting another officer in the line of fire.

In the time it took Chief Brown to get back from updating the public about the ongoing battle, his officers had hatched a plan. It would keep them out of the line of fire and take out the suspect.

"They improvised this whole idea in about 15, 20 minutes -- extraordinary," Chief Brown says.

By the time the chief gave the go ahead, at least two officers had already been killed, and several more gravely wounded. Three more would later die from their injuries.

The sniper was targeting police officers, particularly white officers.
"He was basically lying to us, laughing at us, singing and asking, 'How many did he get?' and saying that 'he wanted to kill more,'" Chief Brown told CNN's Jake Tapper.

Chief Brown made the final call and carried out a plan law enforcement experts say they've never seen done by local officials: Use a robot and a pound of C-4 explosive to take the sniper out.

Chief Brown says the robot was used in the building where Johnson was still sniping, intent on continuing to kill......

 

[koshergrl]

omg, they waited for two hours??? Well then, that cinches it. Cops should not have to abide by the constitution because their time is more valuable than everybody else's.

 

[Divine Wind]

Yeah that's all fine and good except you seem to not understand who those death squads work for. They hate people who are legally armed.

Hey Westwall, I bet it feels good to know that dannyboys also defends death squads lolol.

Calling police "death squads" is not only overly-emotional hyperbolic lying, but can only be stated by someone who doesn't know what it's like to have death squads. It's like the fucking morons who call the United States a totalitarian empire. Such people don't have a fucking clue on what they are talking about.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah that's all fine and good except you seem to not understand who those death squads work for. They hate people who are legally armed.

Hey Westwall, I bet it feels good to know that dannyboys also defends death squads lolol.

Calling police "death squads" is not only overly-emotional hyperbolic lying, but can only be stated by someone who doesn't know what it's like to have death squads. It's like the fucking morons who call the United States a totalitarian empire. Such people don't have a fucking clue on what they are talking about.

Not at all. The rise of.our militarized leo and federalized (and unconstitutional) agencies like the fbi and the usfws are so much like stormtrooper and ss implementation it is giving people with an understanding of history and philosophy ptsd. I was talking to my niece, who has a phd in philosophy (and who is an ER physician who worked er in Minneapolis...and subsequently has an abiding hatred for that city and its out of control coppage) is saying it. A lot. You wouldn't think people could be so blind..but they are.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

He didn't have demolition devices.
Pot shots meh.
"Supposedly threatening more death"...ooooooohhhhhhhh..

He was told to surrender. He didn't. Due process does not mean you can refuse a lawful order of arrest by a designated officer.

And hindsight is 20/20.

And we're back to basic constitution stuff again..IT DOESN'T MATTER. Disobeying a puke with a badge is not "just cause" to be slaughtered. But let me be clear...I understand the nature of lethal force quite well. I appreciate that sometimes people do kill in defense of innocent life and that can be justified.

My objection, in this case, is to the fact that the COPS HAVE ROBOTIC BOMB SQUADS. They don't need that shit. There is absolutely no reason for it. They are testing it out on *criminals* now, but they will be using it on regular people in the very near future. They always do.

And let me tell you something else...the person who believes everything they hear from the press and from the cops in re these matters is a fool.

First of all, its a remote controlled device, not a robot. Call it a robotic drone, but its not a robot like people think its a robot, no autonomy.

Second, there is no difference between shooting this guy, collapsing a wall on him, or having a flash bang kill him because it landed too close. This was a unique situation, and cops didn't go to it as plan A.

And those "pukes with a badge" are the gateway to the legal system, if you don't go through the gate, how can the process start?

A flash bang will not kill you. It might burn you if it goes off in contact with your skin, or raise a lump when it gets thrown at you, but we use them in training all of the time and have had very few injuries.

Totally untrue. You really don't know what you're talking about do you? Flash bangs can contain up to an equivalent of a quarter stick of dynamite and when they go off in close proximity to a human they are quite lethal as this SWAT officer sadly discovered.


"A Charlotte-Mecklenburg police SWAT officer died Friday evening after being seriously injured in an accident at his home in Mint Hill.

Police identified the officer as Fred Thornton, a veteran of the force.

Thornton was on a SWAT call earlier Friday, had gone home to his house on Tinkerton Court and was checking his equipment when a "distraction device" exploded, according to police chief Rodney Monroe, who spoke at a news conference late Friday night."


N.C. SWAT Officer Killed at Home by Flash Bang | Officer.com

I'm sorry, but you are quite in the wrong. I am a volunteer trainer providing opposition force at an Army Urban Combat Training Center. We train mostly special operations units and some regular military and civilian SWAT teams. I have had literally hundreds of flash-bangs thrown at me in the past nine years. I have never been hurt. They have gone off between my feet as I was in a crouched position, behind my back as I was sitting on the ground, and hundreds of other scenarios, but not once did I sustain an injury. The only injuries that have occurred in those nine years were two persons who were burned when the flash bang exploded in direct contact with their bodies.

M84 stun grenade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to your link, why would an officer have a "distraction device" in his home? Massive internal injuries? He blew himself up in all likelihood, playing with explosives he should not have been messing with. I am not buying it.

Have a nice day!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Citizens were never in danger.

Cops were.

And they weren't in danger at the time they blew him up, now, were they?

Yes, citizens were. Two were wounded in the initial attack, and all the asshole had to do was spray bullets out of the parking structure and civilians would be in danger. As far as the police go they had already had 12 shot, isn't that enough for you? Fuck him. I wouldn't risk anyone else's life trying to take down a asshole like that. Their lives have value. Not his.

Which has zero to do with the fact that cops don't need robotic bombs, and that it's wrong for them to stage executions.

Which has been shown they don't. They jury rigged a bomb on a multi thousand dollar robot to save lives. That was the safest, best way to deal with a madman. Period end of story. And for the record I am all over keeping cops from being able to wage war on the citizenry. I am all for mandating that cops wear body cameras and I would like to see four or more cameras on police cars to get 360 degree coverage. But, in a situation like this the cops did the best with what they had and you are flat out wrong.

There was no jury-rigged bomb. The charges are normally used to destroy suspected explosive devices. It is done ALL the time!

Yes, it was. They use a shotgun to blast the bombs apart, and, when they do use sympathetic detonation to set off a suspect device it is a small amount of explosive used, usually Det Cord, This was a pound of C4 (according to reports) which is a huuuuge amount, and they had to sacrifice the robot to do it. In a controlled demolition they set a small charge and then move the robot away and set off the charge remotely.

None of that was done in this case.

Got a link to all of that?

 

[koshergrl]

He was told to surrender. He didn't. Due process does not mean you can refuse a lawful order of arrest by a designated officer.

And hindsight is 20/20.

And we're back to basic constitution stuff again..IT DOESN'T MATTER. Disobeying a puke with a badge is not "just cause" to be slaughtered. But let me be clear...I understand the nature of lethal force quite well. I appreciate that sometimes people do kill in defense of innocent life and that can be justified.

My objection, in this case, is to the fact that the COPS HAVE ROBOTIC BOMB SQUADS. They don't need that shit. There is absolutely no reason for it. They are testing it out on *criminals* now, but they will be using it on regular people in the very near future. They always do.

And let me tell you something else...the person who believes everything they hear from the press and from the cops in re these matters is a fool.

First of all, its a remote controlled device, not a robot. Call it a robotic drone, but its not a robot like people think its a robot, no autonomy.

Second, there is no difference between shooting this guy, collapsing a wall on him, or having a flash bang kill him because it landed too close. This was a unique situation, and cops didn't go to it as plan A.

And those "pukes with a badge" are the gateway to the legal system, if you don't go through the gate, how can the process start?

A flash bang will not kill you. It might burn you if it goes off in contact with your skin, or raise a lump when it gets thrown at you, but we use them in training all of the time and have had very few injuries.

Totally untrue. You really don't know what you're talking about do you? Flash bangs can contain up to an equivalent of a quarter stick of dynamite and when they go off in close proximity to a human they are quite lethal as this SWAT officer sadly discovered.


"A Charlotte-Mecklenburg police SWAT officer died Friday evening after being seriously injured in an accident at his home in Mint Hill.

Police identified the officer as Fred Thornton, a veteran of the force.

Thornton was on a SWAT call earlier Friday, had gone home to his house on Tinkerton Court and was checking his equipment when a "distraction device" exploded, according to police chief Rodney Monroe, who spoke at a news conference late Friday night."


N.C. SWAT Officer Killed at Home by Flash Bang | Officer.com

I'm sorry, but you are quite in the wrong. I am a volunteer trainer providing opposition force at an Army Urban Combat Training Center. We train mostly special operations units and some regular military and civilian SWAT teams. I have had literally hundreds of flash-bangs thrown at me in the past nine years. I have never been hurt. They have gone off between my feet as I was in a crouched position, behind my back as I was sitting on the ground, and hundreds of other scenarios, but not once did I sustain an injury. The only injuries that have occurred in those nine years were two persons who were burned when the flash bang exploded in direct contact with their bodies.

M84 stun grenade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to your link, why would an officer have a "distraction device" in his home? Massive internal injuries? He blew himself up in all likelihood, playing with explosives he should not have been messing with. I am not buying it.

Have a nice day!

Shame on you, one of our militarized goon squad members would never engage in criminal, negligent behavior!!

 

[Divine Wind]

Not at all. The rise of.our militarized leo and federalized (and unconstitutional) agencies like the fbi and the usfws are so much like stormtrooper and ss implementation it is giving people with an understanding of history and philosophy ptsd. I was talking to my niece, who has a phd in philosophy (and who is an ER physician who worked er in Minneapolis...and subsequently has an abiding hatred for that city and its out of control coppage) is saying it. A lot. You wouldn't think people could be so blind..but they are.

What the fuck did the US Fish and Wildlife Service ever do to you? Bust you for poaching deer? Caught you fishing without a license?

Anytime someone equates the United States of America to the fucking Third Reich, I know I'm dealing with either a liar or a nut job.