So you want better paying jobs?

[EdwardBaiamonte]

of course thats stupid. You could create unlimited demand for labor by destroying all the machines in the world but that would make us poorer not richer. Do you understand???

just like the auto buried the horse and a buggy industry. improvements in efficiency lead to higher wages for all. We don't want 99% still farming and not replaced by technology. Do you understand?

You are talking two different things. Buggy makers were coach builders, they adapted to building their product around the internal combustion engine. Supply and demand. Technology is also driven by free market principles in a free market system. It's why we lead the world in technology.

Sometimes, improvements in efficiency and technology cause fewer jobs and lower pay. It all depends on supply and demand. That's the KEY to ANY free market system. As for your ridiculous analogy of destroying all machines to increase demand for labor... we can do all kinds of stupid artificial shit to increase demand for labor... we could commit genocide and wipe out 75% of the working population... that works to reduce the supply of labor and increase the demand, but it's STUPID and an artificial solution.

--deport the illegals.
--de-regulate business and industry.
--lower corporate taxation.
--repatriate wealth abroad with incentives.
--increase tariffs on some foreign import items.
--stop making boneheaded trade deals with non-capitalist countries.
--stop allowing crony corporatists in government to pick winners and losers.
--stop thinking capitalist enterprises are "too big to fail."
--let the laws of supply and demand work as they should.

If we do these things, we will increase the demand for labor naturally and wages will rise.

got it; maybe it would have been clearer for you to say we should switch to capitalism to create more wealth for all rather than to say we should create demand for jobs since that is what liberals say too.

I did not say "create demand for jobs!" I said create demand for LABOR... that's kind of the OPPOSITE!

see about the same to me libs talk about demand while cons talk about supply

But it's not the same, it's the opposite. Liberal policies are increasing the supply of labor... amnesty for illegal aliens... regulating and taxing industries out of business or forcing them to outsource. They want to artificially increase the supply of jobs by creating more government.

I'm saying the opposite. Increase demand for labor... naturally. When the burger joint can't find anyone to work for less than $15 hr., that's what they will offer... supply and demand. Creating good jobs naturally, increases demand for labor and reduces supply of labor.

fine but we talk about capitalism to create jobs, not about creating jobs naturally. You might as well use the same terminology that the pros use rather than invent your own.

 

[Boss]

You are talking two different things. Buggy makers were coach builders, they adapted to building their product around the internal combustion engine. Supply and demand. Technology is also driven by free market principles in a free market system. It's why we lead the world in technology.

Sometimes, improvements in efficiency and technology cause fewer jobs and lower pay. It all depends on supply and demand. That's the KEY to ANY free market system. As for your ridiculous analogy of destroying all machines to increase demand for labor... we can do all kinds of stupid artificial shit to increase demand for labor... we could commit genocide and wipe out 75% of the working population... that works to reduce the supply of labor and increase the demand, but it's STUPID and an artificial solution.

--deport the illegals.
--de-regulate business and industry.
--lower corporate taxation.
--repatriate wealth abroad with incentives.
--increase tariffs on some foreign import items.
--stop making boneheaded trade deals with non-capitalist countries.
--stop allowing crony corporatists in government to pick winners and losers.
--stop thinking capitalist enterprises are "too big to fail."
--let the laws of supply and demand work as they should.

If we do these things, we will increase the demand for labor naturally and wages will rise.

got it; maybe it would have been clearer for you to say we should switch to capitalism to create more wealth for all rather than to say we should create demand for jobs since that is what liberals say too.

I did not say "create demand for jobs!" I said create demand for LABOR... that's kind of the OPPOSITE!

see about the same to me libs talk about demand while cons talk about supply

But it's not the same, it's the opposite. Liberal policies are increasing the supply of labor... amnesty for illegal aliens... regulating and taxing industries out of business or forcing them to outsource. They want to artificially increase the supply of jobs by creating more government.

I'm saying the opposite. Increase demand for labor... naturally. When the burger joint can't find anyone to work for less than $15 hr., that's what they will offer... supply and demand. Creating good jobs naturally, increases demand for labor and reduces supply of labor.

fine but we talk about capitalism to create jobs, not about creating jobs naturally. You might as well use the same terminology that the pros use rather than invent your own.

But the capitalism isn't what creates jobs. If it were totally up to the capitalist there would be as few jobs as possible and people would work harder and longer for less. The driving force is DEMAND.

When labor is in high demand and supply is limited, the pay is higher, the job is better, there are more perks offered, more benefits and bonuses. This isn't because the capitalist is benevolent, it's because the capitalist needs labor.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

people would work harder and longer for less. The driving force is DEMAND.

under capitalism you have to provide the best jobs and products in the world to survive. Make sense?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. This isn't because the capitalist is benevolent,.

a capitalist is benevolent as a matter of survival either he is best in world at good jobs and good products or he goes bankrupt.

 

[Boss]

Sometimes advanced technology means better paying jobs. It can go both ways.

if so give me the best example??

Going back to the newspaper industry... Computer pagination versus the old wax machine paste up methods. Advanced technology increased productivity but you now need someone who knows how to operate a computer and the pagination programs. This requires advanced technical skills which are in higher demand, thus-- higher paying jobs.

no idea what you're point is??

Well my point was to answer your question about an example.

a best example should be from a common industry that we all know

Well I don't know about all possible examples so I don't know what you would consider "The Best." All I can do is tell you about what I know. That was one example. Perhaps we can make the same example from the infamous Acme Widget Company...

I am the owner of the Acme Widget Company, Inc. I make widgets in my shop. I hire an uneducated Mexican to assemble the widgets and pay him $2 an hour for his labor. Someone has invented a new widget-making machine that can produce 10x more widgets per day and my competition has one... he's knocking my brains out because he can out-produce my Mexican. (free market competition) So I invest in the machine but my Mexican has no clue how to run it.... Now I need to hire a technician (demand). No technician wants to work for $2 an hour (limited supply)... I have to pay him $15 an hour. (supply & demand) This is fine with me because my production is greatly increased and my problem is solved.

 

[Boss]

people would work harder and longer for less. The driving force is DEMAND.

under capitalism you have to provide the best jobs and products in the world to survive. Make sense?

No.. A capitalist has the objective to make the most profit... always. Competition in a free market capitalist system is what drives the capitalist to provide better products or service.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

if so give me the best example??

Going back to the newspaper industry... Computer pagination versus the old wax machine paste up methods. Advanced technology increased productivity but you now need someone who knows how to operate a computer and the pagination programs. This requires advanced technical skills which are in higher demand, thus-- higher paying jobs.

no idea what you're point is??

Well my point was to answer your question about an example.

a best example should be from a common industry that we all know

Well I don't know about all possible examples so I don't know what you would consider "The Best." All I can do is tell you about what I know. That was one example. Perhaps we can make the same example from the infamous Acme Widget Company...

I am the owner of the Acme Widget Company, Inc. I make widgets in my shop. I hire an uneducated Mexican to assemble the widgets and pay him $2 an hour for his labor. Someone has invented a new widget-making machine that can produce 10x more widgets per day and my competition has one... he's knocking my brains out because he can out-produce my Mexican. (free market competition) So I invest in the machine but my Mexican has no clue how to run it.... Now I need to hire a technician (demand). No technician wants to work for $2 an hour (limited supply)... I have to pay him $15 an hour. (supply & demand) This is fine with me because my production is greatly increased and my problem is solved.

yes that's progress, and??????????

 

[Boss]

. This isn't because the capitalist is benevolent,.

a capitalist is benevolent as a matter of survival either he is best in world at good jobs and good products or he goes bankrupt.

No, a capitalist is not benevolent... his only objective is profit. In a free market, there aren't very many "greedy" capitalists because a greedy capitalist soon finds that a less-greedy capitalist has taken their business.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

No.. A capitalist has the objective to make the most profit... always. .

and the beauty of capitalism is that you make the most profit by pleasing your customers and workers the most

 

[Boss]

Going back to the newspaper industry... Computer pagination versus the old wax machine paste up methods. Advanced technology increased productivity but you now need someone who knows how to operate a computer and the pagination programs. This requires advanced technical skills which are in higher demand, thus-- higher paying jobs.

no idea what you're point is??

Well my point was to answer your question about an example.

a best example should be from a common industry that we all know

Well I don't know about all possible examples so I don't know what you would consider "The Best." All I can do is tell you about what I know. That was one example. Perhaps we can make the same example from the infamous Acme Widget Company...

I am the owner of the Acme Widget Company, Inc. I make widgets in my shop. I hire an uneducated Mexican to assemble the widgets and pay him $2 an hour for his labor. Someone has invented a new widget-making machine that can produce 10x more widgets per day and my competition has one... he's knocking my brains out because he can out-produce my Mexican. (free market competition) So I invest in the machine but my Mexican has no clue how to run it.... Now I need to hire a technician (demand). No technician wants to work for $2 an hour (limited supply)... I have to pay him $15 an hour. (supply & demand) This is fine with me because my production is greatly increased and my problem is solved.

yes that's progress, and??????????

And it's an example of what you asked me for. Are we talking in circles now?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

no idea what you're point is??

Well my point was to answer your question about an example.

a best example should be from a common industry that we all know

Well I don't know about all possible examples so I don't know what you would consider "The Best." All I can do is tell you about what I know. That was one example. Perhaps we can make the same example from the infamous Acme Widget Company...

I am the owner of the Acme Widget Company, Inc. I make widgets in my shop. I hire an uneducated Mexican to assemble the widgets and pay him $2 an hour for his labor. Someone has invented a new widget-making machine that can produce 10x more widgets per day and my competition has one... he's knocking my brains out because he can out-produce my Mexican. (free market competition) So I invest in the machine but my Mexican has no clue how to run it.... Now I need to hire a technician (demand). No technician wants to work for $2 an hour (limited supply)... I have to pay him $15 an hour. (supply & demand) This is fine with me because my production is greatly increased and my problem is solved.

yes that's progress, and??????????

And it's an example of what you asked me for. Are we talking in circles now?

well you implied you were against progress because it eliminated jobs even though we have had 2000 years of progress and now have only 5% unemployment

 

[Boss]

Well my point was to answer your question about an example.

a best example should be from a common industry that we all know

Well I don't know about all possible examples so I don't know what you would consider "The Best." All I can do is tell you about what I know. That was one example. Perhaps we can make the same example from the infamous Acme Widget Company...

I am the owner of the Acme Widget Company, Inc. I make widgets in my shop. I hire an uneducated Mexican to assemble the widgets and pay him $2 an hour for his labor. Someone has invented a new widget-making machine that can produce 10x more widgets per day and my competition has one... he's knocking my brains out because he can out-produce my Mexican. (free market competition) So I invest in the machine but my Mexican has no clue how to run it.... Now I need to hire a technician (demand). No technician wants to work for $2 an hour (limited supply)... I have to pay him $15 an hour. (supply & demand) This is fine with me because my production is greatly increased and my problem is solved.

yes that's progress, and??????????

And it's an example of what you asked me for. Are we talking in circles now?

well you implied you were against progress because it eliminated jobs even though we have had 2000 years of progress and now have only 5% unemployment

Well... no... I never implied I was against progress. You implied that demand for labor wasn't what created better paying jobs and that it was progress (technology).

today's jobs pay better than 100 years ago because of new inventions that make work more efficient and productive.

My response was:
Sometimes this is true but not always.

Then I gave you a few examples.

You asked me for an example of progress doing the opposite and creating better paying jobs and I did that as well... twice.

So again, your premise is true sometimes and not true sometimes. My point is, progress or technology is not what creates better paying jobs in a free market system. We have to remain focused on what drives a free market capitalist system and that is the law of supply and demand coupled with market competition. That's not saying that new technology doesn't ever create better paying jobs.

New technology is the wrong bandwagon. A good example to show how this is so would be Green Energy technology. It's new and exciting, cutting edge stuff, but until the market is demanding it there is no creation of new jobs as a result. The government has now spent trillions of your grandchild's money trying to generate new "green" jobs. It's failing because there is no market demand for the technology at this time.

 

[shadow355]

The "Whoa" team. US Department of State - Diplomatic Security Service.

Diplomatic Security Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Shadow 355

 

[shadow355]

Law Enforcement :


























Shadow 355

 

[Boss]

Why are you spamming the thread? Is there some point to all the pictures?

 

[shadow355]

Why are you spamming the thread? Is there some point to all the pictures?

I am not spamming - I am describing "A better paying job" for some of us that is interesting and fascinating.

PLUS - I was told I could be a corporate guard. And I get to carry a gun. ( Ooohhhhhh )

THEN....THEN...Yes I was told I could be a Park Police Officer, And I get to carry a gun ( Oooooh ) I am prior service and I have carried firearms many times before.

And I was going to be a corporate "MP"; the Senior leadership told me so. And I get to carry a gun. ( Ooohhhhhh )


So, to help others have ideas for a good job ; a better paying job with great benefits and vacation time...I listed some suggestions.


Shadow 355

 

[Delta4Embassy]

We keep hearing about this "widening gap between rich and poor" which has been the nucleus of an ongoing argument for higher wages, living wages, increasing the minimum wage, more taxation on "the wealthy" or whatever. They come armed with graphs and charts... the statistics to show you the middle class is in decline... the wealthy continue to amass great fortunes while the poor struggle to survive. Our hearts bleed as we're lectured on how we need more government regulations, more agencies and programs, more forced wage hikes and mandates, more restrictions and regulations heaped on big business in order to force them to pay up!

The problem is, we're hearing this from morons who don't understand how free market capitalism works. Oh, not all of them are illiterate morons, some have read books by European socialist propagandists and think they have everything all figured out. They don't seem to understand socialism doesn't work in practice like it works on paper. Every significant sized Socialist nation has failed and most of them have failed hideously. The ideas of people like Marx and Mao are responsible for ten's of millions of deaths. It is clearly a failed ideology by every standard.

Let's first dispatch a few myths and misconceptions. Wealthy people tend to gain wealth faster than poor people because they have a propensity for wealth acquisition... it's how they became wealthy for the most part. So it is perfectly natural in a free market capitalist system for the wealthiest to gain wealth faster than everyone else. It's like having a marathon race where there are runners who are seasoned veteran marathoners, runners who are couch potatoes, and some who run for the fun of it.... Now, in an actual race, who would you expect to lead and eventually win? The couch potato? Of course not... the seasoned vets are constantly going to gain more ground than the couch potatoes... that's perfectly natural and expected. The solution to the problem is not to hobble the veterans so they don't run as fast... the better idea would be to motivate the couch potatoes... train them up... make them better able to compete... turn them into veteran runners.

So this is where the idea of increasing their wages comes... but it's not as simple as merely passing some legislation that corporations MUST pay people $X per hour... that does not work in free market capitalism. What happens is, everything is on a sliding scale, so people make more but things cost more... so very shortly, we are back to square one. So come on Boss... get to the point... how do we increase the rate of pay for the average American in the average job without disrupting free market capitalism or causing inflation?

In order to increase pay you have to increase the demand for labor. In order to do that, you have to create new jobs. Not just new service sector, minimum wage, government or part-time jobs... but real, good paying, legitimate jobs. The way to do that is to encourage expansion of business... this requires taking several steps... lower taxes on corporations... or eliminate corporate tax altogether. Offer tax incentives for repatriated wealth... we have over $20 trillion in US wealth abroad... not doing us a bit of good. Let's bring it home and put it to work creating new business and new jobs. Finally, our trade deals need to account for the disparity in cost of labor. We can't compete with countries who pay their workers $1 a day and a bowl of rice... unless that's the standard we want to live with ourselves. Our trade policies have to take this into consideration and we have to apply tougher tariffs on import goods so our American companies can again compete domestically.

For example, let's use a computer keyboard... If you go to the store today to buy one, you will likely pay around $20 for a standard keyboard which is probably made in Indonesia. Now... An American company, with American workers and paying American taxes, can't buy the materials and assemble said keyboard for $20, much less sell it for that and make a profit. A similar American-made keyboard would be probably $40 or more. So if you have the choice to buy the same keyboard for $20 or $40... which would you likely purchase? Most people aren't going to care about where it's made, money is the deciding factor. However... IF you applied a tariff on Indonesian keyboards of say, $10 each... then the price of the Indonesian keyboard is $30 and the US company has the opportunity to compete... they cut some corners use some competitive ingenuity and manage to whittle their price down to $35... now you have a choice between a cheaply-made Indonesian keyboard for $30 or one that is built to last by Americans for $35. Some will still pick the cheaper keyboard but some will go with the quality.

Now my example is a little exaggerated, we'd never apply a 50% tariff on something... but the point is making imports more expensive so that American companies can compete again. When we change this dynamic, jobs will begin to generate as a result.. more jobs = more demand for labor = higher wages.

Want more jobs I'd actually do for free. If you work a job where the pay is a factor you're just a whore.

 

[Boss]

Why are you spamming the thread? Is there some point to all the pictures?

I am not spamming - I am describing "A better paying job" for some of us that is interesting and fascinating.

PLUS - I was told I could be a corporate guard. And I get to carry a gun. ( Ooohhhhhh )

THEN....THEN...Yes I was told I could be a Park Police Officer, And I get to carry a gun ( Oooooh ) I am prior service and I have carried firearms many times before.

And I was going to be a corporate "MP"; the Senior leadership told me so. And I get to carry a gun. ( Ooohhhhhh )


So, to help others have ideas for a good job ; a better paying job with great benefits and vacation time...I listed some suggestions.


Shadow 355

Well Shadow, that is great for you to share with us, I would have just used words but whatever. The point of the OP was not to list the many good paying jobs out there already. We have a dysfunctional left wing who can't comprehend why burger flippers at the hamburger joints they are trying to put out of business for causing obesity, can't be paid $15 and hour, the same as a paramedic. In the OP, I am trying to address how we actually get to better paying jobs across the board. The jobs you have illustrated can't provide employment for everyone, that should be obvious. I would say that the reason your job and those like it are paying well is because the demand for that skill is high. The supply of people with the proper credentials and qualifications is limited.

So your examples are useful in showing the free market principles of supply and demand and how demand for labor drives higher wages. We see this in other areas as well. Nursing, for instance.

 

[Boss]

Want more jobs I'd actually do for free. If you work a job where the pay is a factor you're just a whore.

Unfortunately, the problem is, we can't buy things if we don't earn money. I am a big fan of doing what you love for a living but it has to also include a pay check.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. That's not saying that new technology doesn't ever create better paying jobs.

dear, new technology is what got us from the stone age to here!!!!! OMG!!!!