Some liberals STILL think govt can have some say in who can own a gun

[daws101]

Nope, nothing of the kind. Just your paranoid fantasy.

Nope. That's what the videos of the event show. Of course, the FBI destroyed the front door of the building where they served the warrant because they didn't want the public to see all the bullet holes where the entry point was the front of the door.

They lived by the sword, they died by the sword. Good riddance..

They never harmed a soul.

so their own kids don't count.?

They never harmed their own kids.

yes they did ...by not releasing them .. that makes them responsible for their deaths.

 

[Siete]

man chokes on food, dies ...

and?

 

[bripat9643]

They never harmed a soul.

Except for the Federal Agents they killed, and themselves.

And whoever died because one of their illegally modified weapons.

People are allowed to defend themselves from thugs who are trying to kill them.

There were no illegally modified weapons.

Sounds like there were, or they wouldn't have killed Federal Agents doing their job. The fire was too late for them.

They killed federal agents who opened fire on them without provocation. In fact, videos of the incident indicate that BATF agents were killed by friendly fire. They shot through the building and killed agents on the other side.

 

[daws101]

they were not minding their own business.. At Mount Carmel in Waco, Texas, agents of the U.S. Treasury Department’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) launch a raid against the Branch Davidian compound as part of an investigation into illegal possession of firearms and explosives by the Christian cult.
epic fail

In other words, they were minding their own business. No evidence was ever produced that the Davidians were doing either.

false!

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.
Department Of Treasury Memorandum | Waco - The Inside Story | FRONTLINE | PBS
might want to quit while you're behind .

FBI lies:

** There have been frequent allegations that BATF converts legal semiautomatic weapons to illegal ones in order to score convictions. BATF/FBI needed to find such weapons to excuse the deaths of 82 Davidians and four BATF agents.

** That is why many suspect BATF and the FBI falsely claim that after the fire they found 48 automatic weapons, four live grenades and twenty metal tubes they labeled "silencers." These agencies have proved to no one outside of law enforcement that Davidian guns were illegally converted. Nor have they proved the grenades were live or the metal tubes were silencers.

** When a Davidian gun expert tried to look at the weapons, he only was allowed to do so through thick plastic, which would make it difficult to see if the changes had been made or if they had been done before or after the fire.

** While several agents alleged they heard automatic gun fire coming out of Mount Carmel, prosecutors could not provide such evidence in video tape or in vehicles shot at by Davidians. If Davidians had used such weapons, they would have done much more damage to vehicles and killed many more agents.

** Prosecutors put on the stand a Davidian woman with little weapons experience to testify a deceased Davidian told her some weapons were automatic. (A Davidian man with little experience told a grand jury that because some guns had three switch positions he assumed they were automatic. He was told a grenade in his possession was live but did not know if this was true.)

** Prosecutors did not prosecute or call to the stand a Davidian mechanical engineer who both the woman at trial and BATF agents in affidavits had identified as being possibly involved in converting weapons. This suggests the engineer had no credible evidence Davidians converted weapons.

link?
not from a conspiracy site //

Prove anything I posted is false.

since you will not post a link you force me to assume it's all false..

 

[bripat9643]

Nope. That's what the videos of the event show. Of course, the FBI destroyed the front door of the building where they served the warrant because they didn't want the public to see all the bullet holes where the entry point was the front of the door.

They lived by the sword, they died by the sword. Good riddance..

They never harmed a soul.

so their own kids don't count.?

They never harmed their own kids.

yes they did ...by not releasing them .. that makes them responsible for their deaths.

The FBI and the BATF are responsible for their deaths, and no one else. That fact simply isn't disputable.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

They never harmed a soul.

Except for the Federal Agents they killed, and themselves.

And whoever died because one of their illegally modified weapons.

People are allowed to defend themselves from thugs who are trying to kill them.

There were no illegally modified weapons.

Sounds like there were, or they wouldn't have killed Federal Agents doing their job. The fire was too late for them.

They killed federal agents who opened fire on them without provocation. In fact, videos of the incident indicate that BATF agents were killed by friendly fire. They shot through the building and killed agents on the other side.

Nonsense, utter...

 

[bripat9643]

In other words, they were minding their own business. No evidence was ever produced that the Davidians were doing either.

false!

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.
Department Of Treasury Memorandum | Waco - The Inside Story | FRONTLINE | PBS
might want to quit while you're behind .

FBI lies:

** There have been frequent allegations that BATF converts legal semiautomatic weapons to illegal ones in order to score convictions. BATF/FBI needed to find such weapons to excuse the deaths of 82 Davidians and four BATF agents.

** That is why many suspect BATF and the FBI falsely claim that after the fire they found 48 automatic weapons, four live grenades and twenty metal tubes they labeled "silencers." These agencies have proved to no one outside of law enforcement that Davidian guns were illegally converted. Nor have they proved the grenades were live or the metal tubes were silencers.

** When a Davidian gun expert tried to look at the weapons, he only was allowed to do so through thick plastic, which would make it difficult to see if the changes had been made or if they had been done before or after the fire.

** While several agents alleged they heard automatic gun fire coming out of Mount Carmel, prosecutors could not provide such evidence in video tape or in vehicles shot at by Davidians. If Davidians had used such weapons, they would have done much more damage to vehicles and killed many more agents.

** Prosecutors put on the stand a Davidian woman with little weapons experience to testify a deceased Davidian told her some weapons were automatic. (A Davidian man with little experience told a grand jury that because some guns had three switch positions he assumed they were automatic. He was told a grenade in his possession was live but did not know if this was true.)

** Prosecutors did not prosecute or call to the stand a Davidian mechanical engineer who both the woman at trial and BATF agents in affidavits had identified as being possibly involved in converting weapons. This suggests the engineer had no credible evidence Davidians converted weapons.

link?
not from a conspiracy site //

Prove anything I posted is false.

since you will not post a link you force me to assume it's all false..

Only leftwing douches believe they don't have to prove their claims are true.

 

[bripat9643]

They never harmed a soul.

Except for the Federal Agents they killed, and themselves.

And whoever died because one of their illegally modified weapons.

People are allowed to defend themselves from thugs who are trying to kill them.

There were no illegally modified weapons.

Sounds like there were, or they wouldn't have killed Federal Agents doing their job. The fire was too late for them.

They killed federal agents who opened fire on them without provocation. In fact, videos of the incident indicate that BATF agents were killed by friendly fire. They shot through the building and killed agents on the other side.

Nonsense, utter...

Not.

 

[Contumacious]

And it doesn't say "unless they aren't very nice people" or "unless they beat their wife ten years ago and did time for it" or any other such restriction.

Actually, the Constitution does say you can remove someone's rights if they are bad people. It's called "due process".

Read the Constitution sometime, and see for yourself.

The Constitution (1787) criminalized

2. _Resolved_, That the Constitution of the United States, having delegated to Congress a power to punish treason, counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States, piracies, and felonies committed on the high seas, and offences against the law of nations, and no other crimes whatsoever;

So the Constitution (1787-1935) Constitutionally defined bad people - of course nowadays the bastards can UNconstitutionally criminalize anything .


.

What part of the Fifth Amendment, which I quoted in full, do you not understand? It clearly states the government can deprive you of life, liberty, and property with due cause.

What part of Art 1, Section 8 you do not understand?

If an act has not been criminalized by the Constitution then is NOT a crime and the individual is not "bad people"

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Except for the Federal Agents they killed, and themselves.

And whoever died because one of their illegally modified weapons.

People are allowed to defend themselves from thugs who are trying to kill them.

There were no illegally modified weapons.

Sounds like there were, or they wouldn't have killed Federal Agents doing their job. The fire was too late for them.

They killed federal agents who opened fire on them without provocation. In fact, videos of the incident indicate that BATF agents were killed by friendly fire. They shot through the building and killed agents on the other side.

Nonsense, utter...

Not.

Why would they fire first? They do this all the time. Oh right, they wouldn't, but illegal arms dealers would.

The only problem with Waco is the place should have been burned to the ground day one, on 10 minutes notice.

 

[g5000]

The FBI never backed up its claim that the Davidians had illegal weapons.

Yes, they did. And some of the surviving Davidians were convicted for possessing and using them.

Castillo v. United States

 

[daws101]

They lived by the sword, they died by the sword. Good riddance..

They never harmed a soul.

so their own kids don't count.?

They never harmed their own kids.

yes they did ...by not releasing them .. that makes them responsible for their deaths.

The FBI and the BATF are responsible for their deaths, and no one else. That fact simply isn't disputable.

funny I just did dispute it back up your shit with credible links or shut the fuck up .
you can blame any one you wish ,the reality is the Davidians were responsible for their own deaths and those of their children.

 

[daws101]

false!

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.
Department Of Treasury Memorandum | Waco - The Inside Story | FRONTLINE | PBS
might want to quit while you're behind .

FBI lies:

** There have been frequent allegations that BATF converts legal semiautomatic weapons to illegal ones in order to score convictions. BATF/FBI needed to find such weapons to excuse the deaths of 82 Davidians and four BATF agents.

** That is why many suspect BATF and the FBI falsely claim that after the fire they found 48 automatic weapons, four live grenades and twenty metal tubes they labeled "silencers." These agencies have proved to no one outside of law enforcement that Davidian guns were illegally converted. Nor have they proved the grenades were live or the metal tubes were silencers.

** When a Davidian gun expert tried to look at the weapons, he only was allowed to do so through thick plastic, which would make it difficult to see if the changes had been made or if they had been done before or after the fire.

** While several agents alleged they heard automatic gun fire coming out of Mount Carmel, prosecutors could not provide such evidence in video tape or in vehicles shot at by Davidians. If Davidians had used such weapons, they would have done much more damage to vehicles and killed many more agents.

** Prosecutors put on the stand a Davidian woman with little weapons experience to testify a deceased Davidian told her some weapons were automatic. (A Davidian man with little experience told a grand jury that because some guns had three switch positions he assumed they were automatic. He was told a grenade in his possession was live but did not know if this was true.)

** Prosecutors did not prosecute or call to the stand a Davidian mechanical engineer who both the woman at trial and BATF agents in affidavits had identified as being possibly involved in converting weapons. This suggests the engineer had no credible evidence Davidians converted weapons.

link?
not from a conspiracy site //

Prove anything I posted is false.

since you will not post a link you force me to assume it's all false..

Only leftwing douches believe they don't have to prove their claims are true.

false accusation # 6.

 

[bripat9643]

People are allowed to defend themselves from thugs who are trying to kill them.

There were no illegally modified weapons.

Sounds like there were, or they wouldn't have killed Federal Agents doing their job. The fire was too late for them.

They killed federal agents who opened fire on them without provocation. In fact, videos of the incident indicate that BATF agents were killed by friendly fire. They shot through the building and killed agents on the other side.

Nonsense, utter...

Not.

Why would they fire first? They do this all the time. Oh right, they wouldn't, but illegal arms dealers would.

The BATF has a long history of firing first and asking questions later. Of course, a government worshiping douche bag like you never questions the actions of the federal government. You would watch them marching people into gas ovens and never suspect anything wrong was occurring.

 

[daws101]

false!

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.
Department Of Treasury Memorandum | Waco - The Inside Story | FRONTLINE | PBS
might want to quit while you're behind .

FBI lies:

** There have been frequent allegations that BATF converts legal semiautomatic weapons to illegal ones in order to score convictions. BATF/FBI needed to find such weapons to excuse the deaths of 82 Davidians and four BATF agents.

** That is why many suspect BATF and the FBI falsely claim that after the fire they found 48 automatic weapons, four live grenades and twenty metal tubes they labeled "silencers." These agencies have proved to no one outside of law enforcement that Davidian guns were illegally converted. Nor have they proved the grenades were live or the metal tubes were silencers.

** When a Davidian gun expert tried to look at the weapons, he only was allowed to do so through thick plastic, which would make it difficult to see if the changes had been made or if they had been done before or after the fire.

** While several agents alleged they heard automatic gun fire coming out of Mount Carmel, prosecutors could not provide such evidence in video tape or in vehicles shot at by Davidians. If Davidians had used such weapons, they would have done much more damage to vehicles and killed many more agents.

** Prosecutors put on the stand a Davidian woman with little weapons experience to testify a deceased Davidian told her some weapons were automatic. (A Davidian man with little experience told a grand jury that because some guns had three switch positions he assumed they were automatic. He was told a grenade in his possession was live but did not know if this was true.)

** Prosecutors did not prosecute or call to the stand a Davidian mechanical engineer who both the woman at trial and BATF agents in affidavits had identified as being possibly involved in converting weapons. This suggests the engineer had no credible evidence Davidians converted weapons.

link?
not from a conspiracy site //

Prove anything I posted is false.

since you will not post a link you force me to assume it's all false..

Only leftwing douches believe they don't have to prove their claims are true.

still dodging the link ...

 

[Uncensored2008]

You do know an "amendment" can be changed don't you? By sorta dictionary definition it already has been. And since the government already has nukes, drones and more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world's countries three times over then your 9mm in your locked box in the shed aint really the deterant to government that it used to be when soldiers and civilians both had muskets.

Why not just say I want my gun because I like it rather than come out with this horseshit. I don't want to take it off you and I don't want the federal government to do so either but at least admit to yourself that you want it because you like it and not some higher calling of holding government to account.

Then all you need to do is pass an amendment to repeal the 2nd, and the rest of the bill of rights.

Good luck with that.

 

[daws101]

Sounds like there were, or they wouldn't have killed Federal Agents doing their job. The fire was too late for them.

They killed federal agents who opened fire on them without provocation. In fact, videos of the incident indicate that BATF agents were killed by friendly fire. They shot through the building and killed agents on the other side.

Nonsense, utter...

Not.

Why would they fire first? They do this all the time. Oh right, they wouldn't, but illegal arms dealers would.

The BATF has a long history of firing first and asking questions later. Of course, a government worshiping douche bag like you never questions the actions of the federal government. You would watch them marching people into gas ovens and never suspect anything wrong was occurring.

link?

 

[Contumacious]

You don't get school shootings in the UK and Australia now that guns have been banned in those countries. They aren't tyrannies. It may be effective but at what cost? How many dead children is it worth for the outside chance of a tyranny being averted?

You may want to live life scared, but I'll take my chances with the Second Amendment. Now go hide

seems to me your dependence on the second amendment is smoking gun proof ( pun intended ) that you're scared shitless.

All sorts of crazy things "seem" to you. I know that statistically if I have a gun the house and it injures someone then it's roughly 80% also someone who lives in that house. Which "seems" to me to be a great reason not to have one. But of your irrational fear means you'd take that risk then go for it.

Irrational fear?

The Mount Carmel Holocaust 1993

bitch please! the branch Davidians brought that on themselves
it does showcase the point that armed citizens do stupid things

Yo dingle berry

what the fuck did the Davidians do to cause the federal government to terrorize them and then incinerate them alive?

.

 

[bripat9643]

The FBI never backed up its claim that the Davidians had illegal weapons.

Yes, they did. And some of the surviving Davidians were convicted for possessing and using them.

Castillo v. United States

The Supreme Court ruled against the FBI in that case, numskull.

 

[daws101]

You may want to live life scared, but I'll take my chances with the Second Amendment. Now go hide

seems to me your dependence on the second amendment is smoking gun proof ( pun intended ) that you're scared shitless.

All sorts of crazy things "seem" to you. I know that statistically if I have a gun the house and it injures someone then it's roughly 80% also someone who lives in that house. Which "seems" to me to be a great reason not to have one. But of your irrational fear means you'd take that risk then go for it.

Irrational fear?

The Mount Carmel Holocaust 1993

bitch please! the branch Davidians brought that on themselves
it does showcase the point that armed citizens do stupid things

Yo dingle berry

what the fuck did the Davidians do to cause the federal government to terrorize them and then incinerate them alive?

.

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.


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