Some liberals STILL think govt can have some say in who can own a gun

[bripat9643]

FBI lies:

** There have been frequent allegations that BATF converts legal semiautomatic weapons to illegal ones in order to score convictions. BATF/FBI needed to find such weapons to excuse the deaths of 82 Davidians and four BATF agents.

** That is why many suspect BATF and the FBI falsely claim that after the fire they found 48 automatic weapons, four live grenades and twenty metal tubes they labeled "silencers." These agencies have proved to no one outside of law enforcement that Davidian guns were illegally converted. Nor have they proved the grenades were live or the metal tubes were silencers.

** When a Davidian gun expert tried to look at the weapons, he only was allowed to do so through thick plastic, which would make it difficult to see if the changes had been made or if they had been done before or after the fire.

** While several agents alleged they heard automatic gun fire coming out of Mount Carmel, prosecutors could not provide such evidence in video tape or in vehicles shot at by Davidians. If Davidians had used such weapons, they would have done much more damage to vehicles and killed many more agents.

** Prosecutors put on the stand a Davidian woman with little weapons experience to testify a deceased Davidian told her some weapons were automatic. (A Davidian man with little experience told a grand jury that because some guns had three switch positions he assumed they were automatic. He was told a grenade in his possession was live but did not know if this was true.)

** Prosecutors did not prosecute or call to the stand a Davidian mechanical engineer who both the woman at trial and BATF agents in affidavits had identified as being possibly involved in converting weapons. This suggests the engineer had no credible evidence Davidians converted weapons.

link?
not from a conspiracy site //

Prove anything I posted is false.

since you will not post a link you force me to assume it's all false..

Only leftwing douches believe they don't have to prove their claims are true.

false accusation # 6.

Perhaps. There may be other kinds of douche bags who believe they don't have to prove their claims.

 

[Contumacious]

You don't get school shootings in the UK and Australia now that guns have been banned in those countries. They aren't tyrannies. It may be effective but at what cost? How many dead children is it worth for the outside chance of a tyranny being averted?

You may want to live life scared, but I'll take my chances with the Second Amendment. Now go hide

seems to me your dependence on the second amendment is smoking gun proof ( pun intended ) that you're scared shitless.

All sorts of crazy things "seem" to you. I know that statistically if I have a gun the house and it injures someone then it's roughly 80% also someone who lives in that house. Which "seems" to me to be a great reason not to have one. But of your irrational fear means you'd take that risk then go for it.

Irrational fear?

The Mount Carmel Holocaust 1993

bitch please! the branch Davidians brought that on themselves
it does showcase the point that armed citizens do stupid things

Cocksucker please,

why can't freemen stand their ground?

WHY did the BATF bring an army squadron including helicopters to serve a "warrant"?


.

 

[bripat9643]

seems to me your dependence on the second amendment is smoking gun proof ( pun intended ) that you're scared shitless.

All sorts of crazy things "seem" to you. I know that statistically if I have a gun the house and it injures someone then it's roughly 80% also someone who lives in that house. Which "seems" to me to be a great reason not to have one. But of your irrational fear means you'd take that risk then go for it.

Irrational fear?

The Mount Carmel Holocaust 1993

bitch please! the branch Davidians brought that on themselves
it does showcase the point that armed citizens do stupid things

Yo dingle berry

what the fuck did the Davidians do to cause the federal government to terrorize them and then incinerate them alive?

.

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.


SUPPORT PROVIDED BY

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** There have been frequent allegations that BATF converts legal semiautomatic weapons to illegal ones in order to score convictions. BATF/FBI needed to find such weapons to excuse the deaths of 82 Davidians and four BATF agents.

** That is why many suspect BATF and the FBI falsely claim that after the fire they found 48 automatic weapons, four live grenades and twenty metal tubes they labeled "silencers." These agencies have proved to no one outside of law enforcement that Davidian guns were illegally converted. Nor have they proved the grenades were live or the metal tubes were silencers.

** When a Davidian gun expert tried to look at the weapons, he only was allowed to do so through thick plastic, which would make it difficult to see if the changes had been made or if they had been done before or after the fire.

** While several agents alleged they heard automatic gun fire coming out of Mount Carmel, prosecutors could not provide such evidence in video tape or in vehicles shot at by Davidians. If Davidians had used such weapons, they would have done much more damage to vehicles and killed many more agents.

** Prosecutors put on the stand a Davidian woman with little weapons experience to testify a deceased Davidian told her some weapons were automatic. (A Davidian man with little experience told a grand jury that because some guns had three switch positions he assumed they were automatic. He was told a grenade in his possession was live but did not know if this was true.)

** Prosecutors did not prosecute or call to the stand a Davidian mechanical engineer who both the woman at trial and BATF agents in affidavits had identified as being possibly involved in converting weapons. This suggests the engineer had no credible evidence Davidians converted weapons.

 

[daws101]

link?
not from a conspiracy site //

Prove anything I posted is false.

since you will not post a link you force me to assume it's all false..

Only leftwing douches believe they don't have to prove their claims are true.

false accusation # 6.

Perhaps. There may be other kinds of douche bags who believe they don't have to prove their claims.

false accusation #7 still no link..

 

[bripat9643]

They never harmed a soul.

so their own kids don't count.?

They never harmed their own kids.

yes they did ...by not releasing them .. that makes them responsible for their deaths.

The FBI and the BATF are responsible for their deaths, and no one else. That fact simply isn't disputable.

funny I just did dispute it back up your shit with credible links or shut the fuck up .
you can blame any one you wish ,the reality is the Davidians were responsible for their own deaths and those of their children.

Wrong. Sure, you can dispute that the sky is blue. However, we rightly conclude that you're a moron.

 

[daws101]

You may want to live life scared, but I'll take my chances with the Second Amendment. Now go hide

seems to me your dependence on the second amendment is smoking gun proof ( pun intended ) that you're scared shitless.

All sorts of crazy things "seem" to you. I know that statistically if I have a gun the house and it injures someone then it's roughly 80% also someone who lives in that house. Which "seems" to me to be a great reason not to have one. But of your irrational fear means you'd take that risk then go for it.

Irrational fear?

The Mount Carmel Holocaust 1993

bitch please! the branch Davidians brought that on themselves
it does showcase the point that armed citizens do stupid things

Cocksucker please,

why can't freemen stand their ground?

WHY did the BATF bring an army squadron including helicopters to serve a "warrant"?


.

kinda obvious aint it captain.?.

 

[daws101]

All sorts of crazy things "seem" to you. I know that statistically if I have a gun the house and it injures someone then it's roughly 80% also someone who lives in that house. Which "seems" to me to be a great reason not to have one. But of your irrational fear means you'd take that risk then go for it.

Irrational fear?

The Mount Carmel Holocaust 1993

bitch please! the branch Davidians brought that on themselves
it does showcase the point that armed citizens do stupid things

Yo dingle berry

what the fuck did the Davidians do to cause the federal government to terrorize them and then incinerate them alive?

.

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.


SUPPORT PROVIDED BY

<a href="Mercy Street, Season 1 on iTunes" target="_blank"><img src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/n6735....ne;epid=1716;tile=1;sz=300x250;ord=123456789?" width="300" height="250" border="0" alt="" /></a>
NEXT ON FRONTLINE
The Rise of ISISEncore PresentationDecember 8th
RECENT STORIES

• November 18, 2015 / 5:27 pmIn Fight Against ISIS, a Lose-Lose Scenario Poses Challenge for West
• November 17, 2015 / 6:13 pmISIS is in Afghanistan, But Who Are They Really?
• November 17, 2015 / 1:59 pm“The Most Risky … Job Ever.” Reporting on “ISIS in Afghanistan”

JOIN OUR NEWSLETTER

FRONTLINE on

** There have been frequent allegations that BATF converts legal semiautomatic weapons to illegal ones in order to score convictions. BATF/FBI needed to find such weapons to excuse the deaths of 82 Davidians and four BATF agents.

** That is why many suspect BATF and the FBI falsely claim that after the fire they found 48 automatic weapons, four live grenades and twenty metal tubes they labeled "silencers." These agencies have proved to no one outside of law enforcement that Davidian guns were illegally converted. Nor have they proved the grenades were live or the metal tubes were silencers.

** When a Davidian gun expert tried to look at the weapons, he only was allowed to do so through thick plastic, which would make it difficult to see if the changes had been made or if they had been done before or after the fire.

** While several agents alleged they heard automatic gun fire coming out of Mount Carmel, prosecutors could not provide such evidence in video tape or in vehicles shot at by Davidians. If Davidians had used such weapons, they would have done much more damage to vehicles and killed many more agents.

** Prosecutors put on the stand a Davidian woman with little weapons experience to testify a deceased Davidian told her some weapons were automatic. (A Davidian man with little experience told a grand jury that because some guns had three switch positions he assumed they were automatic. He was told a grenade in his possession was live but did not know if this was true.)

** Prosecutors did not prosecute or call to the stand a Davidian mechanical engineer who both the woman at trial and BATF agents in affidavits had identified as being possibly involved in converting weapons. This suggests the engineer had no credible evidence Davidians converted weapons.

link or this post must be considered false.

 

[bripat9643]

Irrational fear?

The Mount Carmel Holocaust 1993

bitch please! the branch Davidians brought that on themselves
it does showcase the point that armed citizens do stupid things

Yo dingle berry

what the fuck did the Davidians do to cause the federal government to terrorize them and then incinerate them alive?

.

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.


SUPPORT PROVIDED BY

<a href="Mercy Street, Season 1 on iTunes" target="_blank"><img src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/n6735....ne;epid=1716;tile=1;sz=300x250;ord=123456789?" width="300" height="250" border="0" alt="" /></a>
NEXT ON FRONTLINE
The Rise of ISISEncore PresentationDecember 8th
RECENT STORIES

• November 18, 2015 / 5:27 pmIn Fight Against ISIS, a Lose-Lose Scenario Poses Challenge for West
• November 17, 2015 / 6:13 pmISIS is in Afghanistan, But Who Are They Really?
• November 17, 2015 / 1:59 pm“The Most Risky … Job Ever.” Reporting on “ISIS in Afghanistan”

JOIN OUR NEWSLETTER

FRONTLINE on

** There have been frequent allegations that BATF converts legal semiautomatic weapons to illegal ones in order to score convictions. BATF/FBI needed to find such weapons to excuse the deaths of 82 Davidians and four BATF agents.

** That is why many suspect BATF and the FBI falsely claim that after the fire they found 48 automatic weapons, four live grenades and twenty metal tubes they labeled "silencers." These agencies have proved to no one outside of law enforcement that Davidian guns were illegally converted. Nor have they proved the grenades were live or the metal tubes were silencers.

** When a Davidian gun expert tried to look at the weapons, he only was allowed to do so through thick plastic, which would make it difficult to see if the changes had been made or if they had been done before or after the fire.

** While several agents alleged they heard automatic gun fire coming out of Mount Carmel, prosecutors could not provide such evidence in video tape or in vehicles shot at by Davidians. If Davidians had used such weapons, they would have done much more damage to vehicles and killed many more agents.

** Prosecutors put on the stand a Davidian woman with little weapons experience to testify a deceased Davidian told her some weapons were automatic. (A Davidian man with little experience told a grand jury that because some guns had three switch positions he assumed they were automatic. He was told a grenade in his possession was live but did not know if this was true.)

** Prosecutors did not prosecute or call to the stand a Davidian mechanical engineer who both the woman at trial and BATF agents in affidavits had identified as being possibly involved in converting weapons. This suggests the engineer had no credible evidence Davidians converted weapons.

link or this post must be considered false.

ROFL! When did that become the criteria by which the truth is validated?

Prove these facts are untrue, or shut the fuck up.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You do know an "amendment" can be changed don't you? By sorta dictionary definition it already has been. And since the government already has nukes, drones and more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world's countries three times over then your 9mm in your locked box in the shed aint really the deterant to government that it used to be when soldiers and civilians both had muskets.

Why not just say I want my gun because I like it rather than come out with this horseshit. I don't want to take it off you and I don't want the federal government to do so either but at least admit to yourself that you want it because you like it and not some higher calling of holding government to account.

Then all you need to do is pass an amend to repeal the 2nd, and the rest of the bill of rights.

Good luck with that.

Just #2. We've done such a thing before, remember...

 

[daws101]

so their own kids don't count.?

They never harmed their own kids.

yes they did ...by not releasing them .. that makes them responsible for their deaths.

The FBI and the BATF are responsible for their deaths, and no one else. That fact simply isn't disputable.

funny I just did dispute it back up your shit with credible links or shut the fuck up .
you can blame any one you wish ,the reality is the Davidians were responsible for their own deaths and those of their children.

Wrong. Sure, you can dispute that the sky is blue. However, we rightly conclude that you're a moron.

Nosism, from the Latin nos, "we", is the practice of using the pronoun "we" to refer to oneself when expressing a personal opinion.

 

[Contumacious]

seems to me your dependence on the second amendment is smoking gun proof ( pun intended ) that you're scared shitless.

All sorts of crazy things "seem" to you. I know that statistically if I have a gun the house and it injures someone then it's roughly 80% also someone who lives in that house. Which "seems" to me to be a great reason not to have one. But of your irrational fear means you'd take that risk then go for it.

Irrational fear?

The Mount Carmel Holocaust 1993

bitch please! the branch Davidians brought that on themselves
it does showcase the point that armed citizens do stupid things

Yo dingle berry

what the fuck did the Davidians do to cause the federal government to terrorize them and then incinerate them alive?

.

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.


SUPPORT PROVIDED BY

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Cum swallower , please.

Let me remind you that after the gestapo incinerated alive the Davidians Consequently, Mount Carmel became a crime scene. Nevertheless, the FBI showed up at 4 am with bulldozers to sanitize the crime scene.

So, You have NO EVIDENCE that the items you itemized actually came from the Davidians.

But do I need to remind you that fedgov has NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to regulate firearms N O N E.

So it doesn't fucking matter what the Davidians had in their compound.

Secondly, the Davidians had a FEDERAL LICENSE to sell firearms.

So shut the fuck up.


.

 

[bripat9643]

They never harmed their own kids.

yes they did ...by not releasing them .. that makes them responsible for their deaths.

The FBI and the BATF are responsible for their deaths, and no one else. That fact simply isn't disputable.

funny I just did dispute it back up your shit with credible links or shut the fuck up .
you can blame any one you wish ,the reality is the Davidians were responsible for their own deaths and those of their children.

Wrong. Sure, you can dispute that the sky is blue. However, we rightly conclude that you're a moron.

Nosism, from the Latin nos, "we", is the practice of using the pronoun "we" to refer to oneself when expressing a personal opinion.

You mean some people would think you're telling the truth if you said the sky wasn't blue?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Sounds like there were, or they wouldn't have killed Federal Agents doing their job. The fire was too late for them.

They killed federal agents who opened fire on them without provocation. In fact, videos of the incident indicate that BATF agents were killed by friendly fire. They shot through the building and killed agents on the other side.

Nonsense, utter...

Not.

Why would they fire first? They do this all the time. Oh right, they wouldn't, but illegal arms dealers would.

The BATF has a long history of firing first and asking questions later. Of course, a government worshiping douche bag like you never questions the actions of the federal government. You would watch them marching people into gas ovens and never suspect anything wrong was occurring.

Had this been marked Headquarters of ISIS, USA, Bripiss would have brought the gas, and lit the first match.

 

[daws101]

bitch please! the branch Davidians brought that on themselves
it does showcase the point that armed citizens do stupid things

Yo dingle berry

what the fuck did the Davidians do to cause the federal government to terrorize them and then incinerate them alive?

.

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine Guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND: TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun
Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors and silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56 mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47
Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL
Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56 mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unkown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Various Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.


SUPPORT PROVIDED BY

<a href="Mercy Street, Season 1 on iTunes" target="_blank"><img src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/n6735....ne;epid=1716;tile=1;sz=300x250;ord=123456789?" width="300" height="250" border="0" alt="" /></a>
NEXT ON FRONTLINE
The Rise of ISISEncore PresentationDecember 8th
RECENT STORIES

• November 18, 2015 / 5:27 pmIn Fight Against ISIS, a Lose-Lose Scenario Poses Challenge for West
• November 17, 2015 / 6:13 pmISIS is in Afghanistan, But Who Are They Really?
• November 17, 2015 / 1:59 pm“The Most Risky … Job Ever.” Reporting on “ISIS in Afghanistan”

JOIN OUR NEWSLETTER

FRONTLINE on

** There have been frequent allegations that BATF converts legal semiautomatic weapons to illegal ones in order to score convictions. BATF/FBI needed to find such weapons to excuse the deaths of 82 Davidians and four BATF agents.

** That is why many suspect BATF and the FBI falsely claim that after the fire they found 48 automatic weapons, four live grenades and twenty metal tubes they labeled "silencers." These agencies have proved to no one outside of law enforcement that Davidian guns were illegally converted. Nor have they proved the grenades were live or the metal tubes were silencers.

** When a Davidian gun expert tried to look at the weapons, he only was allowed to do so through thick plastic, which would make it difficult to see if the changes had been made or if they had been done before or after the fire.

** While several agents alleged they heard automatic gun fire coming out of Mount Carmel, prosecutors could not provide such evidence in video tape or in vehicles shot at by Davidians. If Davidians had used such weapons, they would have done much more damage to vehicles and killed many more agents.

** Prosecutors put on the stand a Davidian woman with little weapons experience to testify a deceased Davidian told her some weapons were automatic. (A Davidian man with little experience told a grand jury that because some guns had three switch positions he assumed they were automatic. He was told a grenade in his possession was live but did not know if this was true.)

** Prosecutors did not prosecute or call to the stand a Davidian mechanical engineer who both the woman at trial and BATF agents in affidavits had identified as being possibly involved in converting weapons. This suggests the engineer had no credible evidence Davidians converted weapons.

link or this post must be considered false.

ROFL! When did that become the criteria by which the truth is validated?

Prove these facts are untrue, or shut the fuck up.

link or this post must be considered false
why are you such a chicken shit ?
if what you say is fact then posting the source should be no problem but since you are being such a bitch about it, it must be bullshit.

 

[daws101]

yes they did ...by not releasing them .. that makes them responsible for their deaths.

The FBI and the BATF are responsible for their deaths, and no one else. That fact simply isn't disputable.

funny I just did dispute it back up your shit with credible links or shut the fuck up .
you can blame any one you wish ,the reality is the Davidians were responsible for their own deaths and those of their children.

Wrong. Sure, you can dispute that the sky is blue. However, we rightly conclude that you're a moron.

Nosism, from the Latin nos, "we", is the practice of using the pronoun "we" to refer to oneself when expressing a personal opinion.

You mean some people would think you're telling the truth if you said the sky wasn't blue?

deflection.

 

[bripat9643]

They killed federal agents who opened fire on them without provocation. In fact, videos of the incident indicate that BATF agents were killed by friendly fire. They shot through the building and killed agents on the other side.

Nonsense, utter...

Not.

Why would they fire first? They do this all the time. Oh right, they wouldn't, but illegal arms dealers would.

The BATF has a long history of firing first and asking questions later. Of course, a government worshiping douche bag like you never questions the actions of the federal government. You would watch them marching people into gas ovens and never suspect anything wrong was occurring.

Had this been marked Headquarters of ISIS, USA, Bripiss would have brought the gas, and lit the first match.

However, we all know the FBI brought the gas and lit the match.

 

[KGB]

Today's liberals seem unable to take the hint.

The 2nd amendment says in modern language, that since an armed and capable populace is necessary for security and freedom, the right of ordinary people to own and carry guns and other such weapons cannot be taken away or restricted.

And it doesn't say "unless they aren't very nice people" or "unless they beat their wife ten years ago and did time for it" or any other such restriction. Other passages and amendments in the Constitution make exceptions ("except by due process of law" or "reasonable searches and seizures" etc.), but the Framers were careful to make sure the 2nd did not. It was a flat ban on ANY government involvement in deciding who can have a gun.

But here we have a college professor in a position to influence young minds, announcing that violent people shouldn't own gun, because of the chance that they might be violent.

Yes, it's true that someone who has been violent in the past might do it again. But it's far more often true that someone who has been violent, does it only once in a situation of extreme emotional stress, and never does it again. But there are (unconstitutional) laws in the country, saying that a person who was recklessly violent once, loses his right to keep and bear arms for the rest of his life.

If the people who wrote and ratified the Bill of Rights wanted it that way, why did they write a flat ban on such laws, into the 2nd amendment?

Could it be that they thought that government having ANY say in who can keep and bear arms, would do the nation far more harm in the long run, than letting government impose such restrictions on "some groups" of people?

Did they look over the long history of governments throughout the ages, and find that governments who had "a little" influence on the question of who can keep and bear arms, eventually started abusing that power, imposing restrictions on more and more of their populaces, and eventually leave them helpless to resist the rest of their rights being taken away?

The answer lies in what they wrote for our government. They felt it was more important for govt to be completely banned from restricting people's right to own and carry weapons, than for govt to have even the power to take that right away from "some groups" of people.

The Framers didn't leave us long treatises explaining what studies they did (although they did study many past government extensively) and why they came to the conclusions they did.

But they did leave us the conclusion. And that was to flatly ban govt from having ANY say in who can keep and bear arms.

If that college professor wants to keep professing the facts, maybe HE should study up, even half as much as the Framers did, and find the facts. Before he starts telling trusting young souls what they are.

-----------------------------------------------

This might be why Justice Clarence Thomas finally asked a question after 10 years

This might be why Justice Clarence Thomas finally asked a question after 10 years

Business Insider
By Erin Fuchs
Feb. 29, 2016
20 hours ago

The case that spurred Thomas' torrent of questions centered on whether a "reckless" domestic-assault conviction counts as a federal "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" that would carry with it a lifetime firearm ban. Thirty-four states have "reckless" assault laws that hold people accountable for carelessness that injures somebody else even when they don't necessarily intend harm, according to SCOTUSBlog.

Thomas' line of questioning seemed to suggest that he didn't favor gun bans for misdemeanor domestic-violence offenders and thought such bans could be a slippery slope leading to the denial of other constitutional rights for people convicted of misdemeanors.

"Can you give me a — this is a misdemeanor violation. It suspends a constitutional right. Can you give me another area where a misdemeanor question suspends a constitutional right?" Thomas asked Eisenstein, according to the court transcript.

The usually silent justice may have spoken up because neither side had addressed this question in the briefs they filed, according to Winkler.

"Thomas's question was an important one. Why is the right to bear arms is the only right that people lose for a misdemeanor?" Winkler asked in his email, before going ahead and answering the question himself.

"The answer is recidivism. Even though some domestic violence is only a misdemeanor, it shows a propensity to engage in violence," Winkler added. "Violent people shouldn't have access to guns."

Well stated....there's a simple solution here though. Since people can't comprehend simple English, make it simpler. The 28th Amendment reads: "For those dumb asses who can't read, the Right of the People to keep & bear arms shall not be infringed. This goes for ammo too".

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Nonsense, utter...

Not.

Why would they fire first? They do this all the time. Oh right, they wouldn't, but illegal arms dealers would.

The BATF has a long history of firing first and asking questions later. Of course, a government worshiping douche bag like you never questions the actions of the federal government. You would watch them marching people into gas ovens and never suspect anything wrong was occurring.

Had this been marked Headquarters of ISIS, USA, Bripiss would have brought the gas, and lit the first match.

However, we all know the FBI brought the gas and lit the match.

Actually, that was your little "church" morons, obviously. And, they did us all a favor...

 

[g5000]

The FBI never backed up its claim that the Davidians had illegal weapons.

Yes, they did. And some of the surviving Davidians were convicted for possessing and using them.

Castillo v. United States

The Supreme Court ruled against the FBI in that case, numskull.

They did not refute the Davidians had "machine guns". This was established at trial.

Because the law added an extra 25 years if you used a "machine gun" during a crime, the Supreme Court considered that an additional crime which had to be proven to the jury, in addition to the crime itself.

The judge sentenced them to the mandatory minimum of 30 years after they were convicted of the crime by the jury, adding that extra 25 because they had used machine guns. The Supremes said that was not allowed since the clause in the law made the "machine guns" a separate crime for which they had to also be found guilty by the jury.

In other words, Castillo got off on a technicality.

 

[Contumacious]

The FBI never backed up its claim that the Davidians had illegal weapons.

Yes, they did. And some of the surviving Davidians were convicted for possessing and using them.

Castillo v. United States

The Supreme Court ruled against the FBI in that case, numskull.

They did not refute the Davidians had "machine guns". This was established at trial. What was refuted was that it was not proven in a trial by jury they had USED them during the siege.

Which Constitutional (1787) proviso allows fedgov to regulate machine guns?