Steubenville Rapists have been found guilty

[Katzndogz]

They allegedly called themselves the 'rape crew'

How many other victims of theirs are out there?

How many people like them took that same message away and learned from this only that sentences are light and to not take/share pictures or video?

The rape crew? sweet Jesus, were these kids raised by wolves? where the fuck are the parents?

Wolves are better parents than the progenitors of these animals.

Wolves are better people than the animals we call people.

Perhaps we could improve the human strain if we added a bit of wolf DNA with genetic engineering.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I'd love to see the military age pushed up.

Why? I joined the Military right after high school and it was great as far as teaching me a work ethic and discipline, things that are hard to learn as an 18 year old in the civilian work force.

Because 18 is still very young,for many, too young to fully understand what your agreeing to. I'm sure the army was great in helping you grow up, I'm just not sure that's what the army should be doing.

That's what the military has been doing since boys were allowed to enlist. Once upon a time, if a young man was heading down the wrong path, often the local law enforcement personnel offered him the choice of enlistment or jail. Of course, even the military has changed significantly enough in the ensuing years that they are not as effective as it once was in helping boys make that transition into men. It's still a far cry beyond what many civilian opportunities offer.

 

[AmyNation]

Why? I joined the Military right after high school and it was great as far as teaching me a work ethic and discipline, things that are hard to learn as an 18 year old in the civilian work force.

Because 18 is still very young,for many, too young to fully understand what your agreeing to. I'm sure the army was great in helping you grow up, I'm just not sure that's what the army should be doing.

That's what the military has been doing since boys were allowed to enlist. Once upon a time, if a young man was heading down the wrong path, often the local law enforcement personnel offered him the choice of enlistment or jail. Of course, even the military has changed significantly enough in the ensuing years that they are not as effective as it once was in helping boys make that transition into men. It's still a far cry beyond what many civilian opportunities offer.

True. I think the military does a lot of good turning boys into men. But I don't think we should send boys off to die, or that they always understand when they enlist what they are getting into.

My middle nephew just finished basic training. Every other day he's posting pics of himself on fb. Silly pics of him posing with his rifle, playing around with his bunk mates. He's pleased as can be with playing solider. I'm happy for him, and proud too. But, hes 18, I wouldn't call him an adult. He doesn't really get it yet.

 

[GHook93]

This is a mirky case. They didn't have intercourse with her. They did finger her (which should be punished), but no intercourse. I know the law in OH states differently, but there is a distinction between intercourse and fingering. I don't think they should go to jail as RAPIST and their lives should be ruined. Just my thoughts.

 

[gallantwarrior]

The rape crew? sweet Jesus, were these kids raised by wolves? where the fuck are the parents?

Wolves are better parents than the progenitors of these animals.

Wolves are better people than the animals we call people.

Perhaps we could improve the human strain if we added a bit of wolf DNA with genetic engineering.

An even better idea is to stop allowing the unfit to breed more of their kind. That's genetic engineering that works within the laws of Nature.

 

[AmyNation]

They were found guilty of sexual assault. What do you call what they did besides sexual assault.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Because 18 is still very young,for many, too young to fully understand what your agreeing to. I'm sure the army was great in helping you grow up, I'm just not sure that's what the army should be doing.

That's what the military has been doing since boys were allowed to enlist. Once upon a time, if a young man was heading down the wrong path, often the local law enforcement personnel offered him the choice of enlistment or jail. Of course, even the military has changed significantly enough in the ensuing years that they are not as effective as it once was in helping boys make that transition into men. It's still a far cry beyond what many civilian opportunities offer.

True. I think the military does a lot of good turning boys into men. But I don't think we should send boys off to die, or that they always understand when they enlist what they are getting into.

My middle nephew just finished basic training. Every other day he's posting pics of himself on fb. Silly pics of him posing with his rifle, playing around with his bunk mates. He's pleased as can be with playing solider. I'm happy for him, and proud too. But, hes 18, I wouldn't call him an adult. He doesn't really get it yet.

At 18, did any of us truly understand mortality? My SIL just got through his selection for Green Beret training. He's about as jazzed as he can be. He's 32 and has been deployed three times to the Middle East in his 9 year military "career". Some people not only "get it", they are born warriors. I know, I'm one of those types myself. That doesn't necessarily mean you'll take up arms, it could mean you advocate for other things, passionately and sometimes violently. You'll also see those types of people standing up for the "underdog" and fighting to make "change" based on their own ideology.

 

[varelse]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Death-Grown-Up-Americas-Development-Civilization/dp/0312340494]The Death of the Grown-Up: How America's Arrested Development Is Bringing Down Western Civilization: Diana West: 9780312340490: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

Because 18 is still very young,for many, too young to fully understand what your agreeing to. I'm sure the army was great in helping you grow up, I'm just not sure that's what the army should be doing.

At one point when you were 18 you were totally expected to act as an adult, now it seems like we keep pushing that age up more and more?>

At one point 12 year old girls were expected to marry and start producing offspring.

It's the natural progression of our society. When the average life expectancy is 30, 12 seems pretty grown up. Now we've living into the triple digits.

And they still mature just as fast as ever- faster, in many cases, as modern food helps them reach the necessary body-fat percentage at a younger age, thus contributing to early puberty.

 

[AmyNation]

You are arguing that the human average human brain is fully developed at 16?

 

[varelse]

Amy, you're smarter than that. I clearly stated that the human brain mature's 'just as fast as ever', meaning that the brain does not develop any more slowly today, on average, than it did one-, two-, or five-hundred years ago, on average.

That's a huge part of why abstinence-only education doesn't work in practice- nature still runs its course and with puberty comes the sex drive. Unfortunately, our society has taken to taking two destructive paths: either they deny this fact so youth are unprepared to deal with it, or they just run with it in a libertine orgy of sex, violence, and irresponsibility. Neither is healthy and both are contributing, IMO, to the social problems we currently face.

 

[Dragonlady]

The human brain is fully grown at 16, but not fully developed. The areas which govern rational thinking and impulse control are the last to develop which won't surprise the parents of rebellious teens. Which is not to say they don't know right from wrong, or they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. This is why they were tried and sentenced as juveniles.

As for the parents, they not only stood by their sons, they hired lawyers and PR firms to smear this girl in the press and paint their sons as the victims of an over-zealous prosecutors. Boys will be boys and all that. In other words, they got angry that their sons' futures were being taken away and they took it out on the girl.

Yes, wolves are better parents.

 

[AmyNation]

Amy, you're smarter than that. I clearly stated that the human brain mature's 'just as fast as ever', meaning that the brain does not develop any more slowly today, on average, than it did one-, two-, or five-hundred years ago, on average.

That's a huge part of why abstinence-only education doesn't work in practice- nature still runs its course and with puberty comes the sex drive. Unfortunately, our society has taken to taking two destructive paths: either they deny this fact so youth are unprepared to deal with it, or they just run with it in a libertine orgy of sex, violence, and irresponsibility. Neither is healthy and both are contributing, IMO, to the social problems we currently face.

0.o

I never claimed we develop more slowly today than we have in the past. I said a 16 year olds brain is not fully developed, which is a scientific fact.

 

[syrenn]

This will draw some flack...


but if you think about it...


if she remembered nothing, there was no psychological/emotional harm done until others leaked the photos and information and she became aware of her victim status

there have been several child-porn cases in the news over the last several years where otherwise unaffected persons (some of whom were old enough to recall their experiences, despite not associating them with any negative emotions) began experiencing emotional trauma after they were told they were victims and that they ought to feel violated or harmed in some way. There have been similar cases involving children 'playing doctor'- once considered nothing to be too concerned about- who are taught that their experiences were terrible and then go on to experience the trauma they're taught to feel.

It's not unlike the complex children are taught about sex in general ['naughty parts'] or the trauma we teach children to experience if they soil themselves as a part of toilet training.

All I'm saying is that, while it's good these people won't be able to do this to anyone else, I wonder whether the way this all went down- pictures all over the web and such- led to emotional trauma she wouldn't have otherwise experienced, much like how 'vicky' now says she feels violated every time she learns someone else viewed the videos of her engaging in sexual activity in her youth.

Considered in that context, she did not consent to the videos and photos being posted on the internet, either.

and anyone having or posting those videos or photos..... can be prosecuted for owning and distributing kiddie porn. The girl is underage.

 

[Misty]

The are talking about going after all the kids that recorded it and took pics of it and then passed it on to a supposed 300,000 people.

This poor girl.

 

[syrenn]

The are talking about going after all the kids that recorded it and took pics of it and then passed it on to a supposed 300,000 people.

This poor girl.

and every single of of them...can be charged with distributing and if they still have it....possession of kiddie porn.

 

[varelse]

Amy, you're smarter than that. I clearly stated that the human brain matures 'just as fast as ever', meaning that the brain does not develop any more slowly today, on average, than it did one-, two-, or five-hundred years ago, on average.

That's a huge part of why abstinence-only education doesn't work in practice- nature still runs its course and with puberty comes the sex drive. Unfortunately, our society has taken to taking two destructive paths: either they deny this fact so youth are unprepared to deal with it, or they just run with it in a libertine orgy of sex, violence, and irresponsibility. Neither is healthy and both are contributing, IMO, to the social problems we currently face.

0.o

I never claimed we develop more slowly today than we have in the past. I said a 16 year olds brain is not fully developed, which is a scientific fact.

Once again, you seem to misunderstand.

Let's back up. I said children's brains mature as fast today as ever. You mistook that post as implying that their minds were fully developed by sixteen. I then further clarified my position in the text I've placed in blue and elaborated in the second paragraph upon how society's failure to address the matter in a healthy way contributes to many of society's ills, including the subject of this thread.

I don't understand how you keep misconstruing these posts in such ways

 

[AmyNation]

I guess Im simply missing your point. *shrug*

 

[emilynghiem]

ADDED Source: This article does a better job explaining the difference in brain development between a teenager (where 18 is still not mature enough to manage full assessment of consequences for independent legal responsibility) and a mature adult, est. at 25. (Without basic legal education for all citizens, I might even push the bar higher, or else people don't account for the millions in taxes to prosecute cases as part of the social costs of their crimes!)

Suspect's Loyalty to Brother, Teen Brain Were Explosive Combination - Yahoo!

===================================

I think it takes reminding that the people at this party were kids.

No, they're not. They're teens, 16 and 17, old enough to have lied to get into the army during WWII and be praised for it. They're old enough to know right from wrong be responsible for their decisions.

Would you be making excuses for them if it were you or your daughter?

I'm sure the girl who was raped is glad to know they're just kids...

Yikes! If you know anything about child and adolescent development, 18 is still too early to make independent decisions as adults. The emotional factor of peer pressure, and need for check and balance by adults which was also missing here, are still too great especially where the opportunity for mixing intoxicants with sex, etc.

When I was working at a school, where the director had 50 years of experience teaching in private and public schools, she was dismayed to hear in the news about a teenage store manager of a restaurant given keys and ability to access the store alone; this teenager conspired with friends to rob the store and start a fire to hide the evidience, which resulted in the death of a firefighter and may have escalated the crime to a capital offense. She explained to me that age was TOO YOUNG to be given the keys to the store to manage alone; the peer pressure and inability to make independent decisions without emotional impulses is not appropriate for the level of development of the adolescent brain that is still dealing with too many changes in emotions, hormone levels, and social cues and responses. And she was a well-experienced well-trained teacher with background in child development, who studied at what stages different thresholds are reached, so you recognize them as students progress.

I have heard that 21 is more realistic for expecting people to act as adults;
and the ages between 15-18 are especially prone to needing adult shadowing and mentorship to teach young people how to manage decisions given these social pressures.

This is NOT making "an excuse" for socially destructive or criminal behavior; it is explaining WHY it happens, and why our prisons and juvenile centers are filled with people who failed to control their impulses and did things with a group, following the bad decisions of others, without proper education, upbringing, instruction, experience and support to resist. If you are going to fix the problem, then fix it, just punishing it after the fact isn't fixing the cause.

NOTE: I personally believe that if people are not legally responsible due to age or disability, then SOMEONE else needs to be assigned legal financial and social responsibility, so it isn't the crime victims, society or taxpayers footing the bill every time crimes or damages occur due to someone not being able to act responsibly as a law-abiding citizen. People need to be educated and trained on what it takes to enforce and uphold laws, and if they cannot do this competently, and do not accept social legal and financial responsibility for their actions, they should not have the same rights of citizenship as those who ARE taking full responsibility. There should be conditions and signed agreements in order to enforce laws and quit this nonsense of charging law-abding taxpayers for the crimes of others. All people should agree to pay the costs of their own actions, or else not be granted the privileges of citizenship.