Steubenville Rapists have been found guilty

[High_Gravity]

I think it takes reminding that the people at this party were kids.

No, they're not. They're teens, 16 and 17, old enough to have lied to get into the army during WWII and be praised for it. They're old enough to know right from wrong be responsible for their decisions.

Would you be making excuses for them if it were you or your daughter?

I'm sure the girl who was raped is glad to know they're just kids...

Yikes! If you know anything about child and adolescent development, 18 is still too early to make independent decisions as adults. The emotional factor of peer pressure, and need for check and balance by adults which was also missing here, are still too great especially where the opportunity for mixing intoxicants with sex, etc.

When I was working at a school, where the director had 50 years of experience teaching in private and public schools, she was dismayed to hear in the news about a teenage store manager of a restaurant given keys and ability to access the store alone; this teenager conspired with friends to rob the store and start a fire to hide the evidience, which resulted in the death of a firefighter and may have escalated the crime to a capital offense. She explained to me that age was TOO YOUNG to be given the keys to the store to manage alone; the peer pressure and inability to make independent decisions without emotional impulses is not appropriate for the level of development of the adolescent brain that is still dealing with too many changes in emotions, hormone levels, and social cues and responses. And she was a well-experienced well-trained teacher with background in child development, who studied at what stages different thresholds are reached, so you recognize them as students progress.

I have heard that 21 is more realistic for expecting people to act as adults;
and the ages between 15-18 are especially prone to needing adult shadowing and mentorship to teach young people how to manage decisions given these social pressures.

This is NOT making "an excuse" for socially destructive or criminal behavior; it is explaining WHY it happens, and why our prisons and juvenile centers are filled with people who failed to control their impulses and did things with a group, following the bad decisions of others, without proper education, upbringing, instruction, experience and support to resist. If you are going to fix the problem, then fix it, just punishing it after the fact isn't fixing the cause.

NOTE: I personally believe that if people are not legally responsible due to age or disability, then SOMEONE else needs to be assigned legal financial and social responsibility, so it isn't the crime victims, society or taxpayers footing the bill every time crimes or damages occur due to someone not being able to act responsibly as a law-abiding citizen. People need to be educated and trained on what it takes to enforce and uphold laws, and if they cannot do this competently, and do not accept social legal and financial responsibility for their actions, they should not have the same rights of citizenship as those who ARE taking full responsibility. There should be conditions and signed agreements in order to enforce laws and quit this nonsense of charging law-abding taxpayers for the crimes of others. All people should agree to pay the costs of their own actions, or else not be granted the privileges of citizenship.

If thats really true and 17, 18 year olds really cannot make good decisions, why do we let them join the Military? thats a pretty big decision! Should the Military age be pushed up?

 

[High_Gravity]

I think it takes reminding that the people at this party were kids.

No, they're not. They're teens, 16 and 17, old enough to have lied to get into the army during WWII and be praised for it. They're old enough to know right from wrong be responsible for their decisions.

Would you be making excuses for them if it were you or your daughter?

I'm sure the girl who was raped is glad to know they're just kids...

Teenagers are still children.

The kids are the party ranged from 14-17. Those are children. Their brains aren't fully developed yet.

At what age are you supposed to know that rape is wrong?

 

[AmyNation]

So he's old and responsible enough to go to war and get his leg blown off by an IED, but not old and responsible enough to know rape is wrong?

Sure the rapists knew right from wrong. However one of the last things to develop in the human brain is the ability to accurately predict the consequences of our actions. It's why we have a different set if rules for children and adults. I know this is hard for people because a 16 year old looks like an adult, if they looked like a toddler it would be easier to understand that their brain isnt done developing yet.

Besides which, we were discussing the children at the party, not the boys who raped her.

 

[Katzndogz]

No, they're not. They're teens, 16 and 17, old enough to have lied to get into the army during WWII and be praised for it. They're old enough to know right from wrong be responsible for their decisions.

Would you be making excuses for them if it were you or your daughter?

I'm sure the girl who was raped is glad to know they're just kids...

Yikes! If you know anything about child and adolescent development, 18 is still too early to make independent decisions as adults. The emotional factor of peer pressure, and need for check and balance by adults which was also missing here, are still too great especially where the opportunity for mixing intoxicants with sex, etc.

When I was working at a school, where the director had 50 years of experience teaching in private and public schools, she was dismayed to hear in the news about a teenage store manager of a restaurant given keys and ability to access the store alone; this teenager conspired with friends to rob the store and start a fire to hide the evidience, which resulted in the death of a firefighter and may have escalated the crime to a capital offense. She explained to me that age was TOO YOUNG to be given the keys to the store to manage alone; the peer pressure and inability to make independent decisions without emotional impulses is not appropriate for the level of development of the adolescent brain that is still dealing with too many changes in emotions, hormone levels, and social cues and responses. And she was a well-experienced well-trained teacher with background in child development, who studied at what stages different thresholds are reached, so you recognize them as students progress.

I have heard that 21 is more realistic for expecting people to act as adults;
and the ages between 15-18 are especially prone to needing adult shadowing and mentorship to teach young people how to manage decisions given these social pressures.

This is NOT making "an excuse" for socially destructive or criminal behavior; it is explaining WHY it happens, and why our prisons and juvenile centers are filled with people who failed to control their impulses and did things with a group, following the bad decisions of others, without proper education, upbringing, instruction, experience and support to resist. If you are going to fix the problem, then fix it, just punishing it after the fact isn't fixing the cause.

NOTE: I personally believe that if people are not legally responsible due to age or disability, then SOMEONE else needs to be assigned legal financial and social responsibility, so it isn't the crime victims, society or taxpayers footing the bill every time crimes or damages occur due to someone not being able to act responsibly as a law-abiding citizen. People need to be educated and trained on what it takes to enforce and uphold laws, and if they cannot do this competently, and do not accept social legal and financial responsibility for their actions, they should not have the same rights of citizenship as those who ARE taking full responsibility. There should be conditions and signed agreements in order to enforce laws and quit this nonsense of charging law-abding taxpayers for the crimes of others. All people should agree to pay the costs of their own actions, or else not be granted the privileges of citizenship.

If thats really true and 17, 18 year olds really cannot make good decisions, why do we let them join the Military? thats a pretty big decision! Should the Military age be pushed up?

Off hand, it would be military discipline and supervision.

 

[AmyNation]

No, they're not. They're teens, 16 and 17, old enough to have lied to get into the army during WWII and be praised for it. They're old enough to know right from wrong be responsible for their decisions.

Would you be making excuses for them if it were you or your daughter?

I'm sure the girl who was raped is glad to know they're just kids...

Yikes! If you know anything about child and adolescent development, 18 is still too early to make independent decisions as adults. The emotional factor of peer pressure, and need for check and balance by adults which was also missing here, are still too great especially where the opportunity for mixing intoxicants with sex, etc.

When I was working at a school, where the director had 50 years of experience teaching in private and public schools, she was dismayed to hear in the news about a teenage store manager of a restaurant given keys and ability to access the store alone; this teenager conspired with friends to rob the store and start a fire to hide the evidience, which resulted in the death of a firefighter and may have escalated the crime to a capital offense. She explained to me that age was TOO YOUNG to be given the keys to the store to manage alone; the peer pressure and inability to make independent decisions without emotional impulses is not appropriate for the level of development of the adolescent brain that is still dealing with too many changes in emotions, hormone levels, and social cues and responses. And she was a well-experienced well-trained teacher with background in child development, who studied at what stages different thresholds are reached, so you recognize them as students progress.

I have heard that 21 is more realistic for expecting people to act as adults;
and the ages between 15-18 are especially prone to needing adult shadowing and mentorship to teach young people how to manage decisions given these social pressures.

This is NOT making "an excuse" for socially destructive or criminal behavior; it is explaining WHY it happens, and why our prisons and juvenile centers are filled with people who failed to control their impulses and did things with a group, following the bad decisions of others, without proper education, upbringing, instruction, experience and support to resist. If you are going to fix the problem, then fix it, just punishing it after the fact isn't fixing the cause.

NOTE: I personally believe that if people are not legally responsible due to age or disability, then SOMEONE else needs to be assigned legal financial and social responsibility, so it isn't the crime victims, society or taxpayers footing the bill every time crimes or damages occur due to someone not being able to act responsibly as a law-abiding citizen. People need to be educated and trained on what it takes to enforce and uphold laws, and if they cannot do this competently, and do not accept social legal and financial responsibility for their actions, they should not have the same rights of citizenship as those who ARE taking full responsibility. There should be conditions and signed agreements in order to enforce laws and quit this nonsense of charging law-abding taxpayers for the crimes of others. All people should agree to pay the costs of their own actions, or else not be granted the privileges of citizenship.

If thats really true and 17, 18 year olds really cannot make good decisions, why do we let them join the Military? thats a pretty big decision! Should the Military age be pushed up?

I'd love to see the military age pushed up.

 

[AmyNation]

No, they're not. They're teens, 16 and 17, old enough to have lied to get into the army during WWII and be praised for it. They're old enough to know right from wrong be responsible for their decisions.

Would you be making excuses for them if it were you or your daughter?

I'm sure the girl who was raped is glad to know they're just kids...

Teenagers are still children.

The kids are the party ranged from 14-17. Those are children. Their brains aren't fully developed yet.

At what age are you supposed to know that rape is wrong?

It's not an issue of knowing right from wrong.

 

[High_Gravity]

Yikes! If you know anything about child and adolescent development, 18 is still too early to make independent decisions as adults. The emotional factor of peer pressure, and need for check and balance by adults which was also missing here, are still too great especially where the opportunity for mixing intoxicants with sex, etc.

When I was working at a school, where the director had 50 years of experience teaching in private and public schools, she was dismayed to hear in the news about a teenage store manager of a restaurant given keys and ability to access the store alone; this teenager conspired with friends to rob the store and start a fire to hide the evidience, which resulted in the death of a firefighter and may have escalated the crime to a capital offense. She explained to me that age was TOO YOUNG to be given the keys to the store to manage alone; the peer pressure and inability to make independent decisions without emotional impulses is not appropriate for the level of development of the adolescent brain that is still dealing with too many changes in emotions, hormone levels, and social cues and responses. And she was a well-experienced well-trained teacher with background in child development, who studied at what stages different thresholds are reached, so you recognize them as students progress.

I have heard that 21 is more realistic for expecting people to act as adults;
and the ages between 15-18 are especially prone to needing adult shadowing and mentorship to teach young people how to manage decisions given these social pressures.

This is NOT making "an excuse" for socially destructive or criminal behavior; it is explaining WHY it happens, and why our prisons and juvenile centers are filled with people who failed to control their impulses and did things with a group, following the bad decisions of others, without proper education, upbringing, instruction, experience and support to resist. If you are going to fix the problem, then fix it, just punishing it after the fact isn't fixing the cause.

NOTE: I personally believe that if people are not legally responsible due to age or disability, then SOMEONE else needs to be assigned legal financial and social responsibility, so it isn't the crime victims, society or taxpayers footing the bill every time crimes or damages occur due to someone not being able to act responsibly as a law-abiding citizen. People need to be educated and trained on what it takes to enforce and uphold laws, and if they cannot do this competently, and do not accept social legal and financial responsibility for their actions, they should not have the same rights of citizenship as those who ARE taking full responsibility. There should be conditions and signed agreements in order to enforce laws and quit this nonsense of charging law-abding taxpayers for the crimes of others. All people should agree to pay the costs of their own actions, or else not be granted the privileges of citizenship.

If thats really true and 17, 18 year olds really cannot make good decisions, why do we let them join the Military? thats a pretty big decision! Should the Military age be pushed up?

Off hand, it would be military discipline and supervision.

Very very true.

 

[High_Gravity]

Yikes! If you know anything about child and adolescent development, 18 is still too early to make independent decisions as adults. The emotional factor of peer pressure, and need for check and balance by adults which was also missing here, are still too great especially where the opportunity for mixing intoxicants with sex, etc.

When I was working at a school, where the director had 50 years of experience teaching in private and public schools, she was dismayed to hear in the news about a teenage store manager of a restaurant given keys and ability to access the store alone; this teenager conspired with friends to rob the store and start a fire to hide the evidience, which resulted in the death of a firefighter and may have escalated the crime to a capital offense. She explained to me that age was TOO YOUNG to be given the keys to the store to manage alone; the peer pressure and inability to make independent decisions without emotional impulses is not appropriate for the level of development of the adolescent brain that is still dealing with too many changes in emotions, hormone levels, and social cues and responses. And she was a well-experienced well-trained teacher with background in child development, who studied at what stages different thresholds are reached, so you recognize them as students progress.

I have heard that 21 is more realistic for expecting people to act as adults;
and the ages between 15-18 are especially prone to needing adult shadowing and mentorship to teach young people how to manage decisions given these social pressures.

This is NOT making "an excuse" for socially destructive or criminal behavior; it is explaining WHY it happens, and why our prisons and juvenile centers are filled with people who failed to control their impulses and did things with a group, following the bad decisions of others, without proper education, upbringing, instruction, experience and support to resist. If you are going to fix the problem, then fix it, just punishing it after the fact isn't fixing the cause.

NOTE: I personally believe that if people are not legally responsible due to age or disability, then SOMEONE else needs to be assigned legal financial and social responsibility, so it isn't the crime victims, society or taxpayers footing the bill every time crimes or damages occur due to someone not being able to act responsibly as a law-abiding citizen. People need to be educated and trained on what it takes to enforce and uphold laws, and if they cannot do this competently, and do not accept social legal and financial responsibility for their actions, they should not have the same rights of citizenship as those who ARE taking full responsibility. There should be conditions and signed agreements in order to enforce laws and quit this nonsense of charging law-abding taxpayers for the crimes of others. All people should agree to pay the costs of their own actions, or else not be granted the privileges of citizenship.

If thats really true and 17, 18 year olds really cannot make good decisions, why do we let them join the Military? thats a pretty big decision! Should the Military age be pushed up?

I'd love to see the military age pushed up.

Why? I joined the Military right after high school and it was great as far as teaching me a work ethic and discipline, things that are hard to learn as an 18 year old in the civilian work force.

 

[Katzndogz]

Yikes! If you know anything about child and adolescent development, 18 is still too early to make independent decisions as adults.

Then why can they choose the president and go to war?

How old were you when you knew rape and violence were wrong?

I have heard that 21 is more realistic for expecting people to act as adults

So 21 to drink, smoke, vote, or be responsible for rape or murder? No penalty for rape or murder if you're 20?

If you are going to fix the problem, then fix it, just punishing it after the fact isn't fixing the cause.

Children don't stop stealing their siblings' toys because they grasp the idea of rights. They stop stealing toys because they don't want to get in trouble again.

The kids are the party ranged from 14-17. Those are children. Their brains aren't fully developed yet.

Developed enough to know rape, theft, and violence are wrong.

They were having fun. If they were having fun, that trumps every other right of every other person. They have a right to have fun and enjoy themselves. They weren't doing anything wrong. They were laughing about it. Should it be against the law to laugh now?

Flash mobs who vandalize property is fun. Gallon smashing is fun. Destruction is fun. Beating someone up is fun. Rape is fun.

They feel they have a right to enjoy themselves and that's where this behavior comes from.

 

[AmyNation]

If thats really true and 17, 18 year olds really cannot make good decisions, why do we let them join the Military? thats a pretty big decision! Should the Military age be pushed up?

I'd love to see the military age pushed up.

Why? I joined the Military right after high school and it was great as far as teaching me a work ethic and discipline, things that are hard to learn as an 18 year old in the civilian work force.

Because 18 is still very young,for many, too young to fully understand what your agreeing to. I'm sure the army was great in helping you grow up, I'm just not sure that's what the army should be doing.

 

[High_Gravity]

I'd love to see the military age pushed up.

Why? I joined the Military right after high school and it was great as far as teaching me a work ethic and discipline, things that are hard to learn as an 18 year old in the civilian work force.

Because 18 is still very young,for many, too young to fully understand what your agreeing to. I'm sure the army was great in helping you grow up, I'm just not sure that's what the army should be doing.

At one point when you were 18 you were totally expected to act as an adult, now it seems like we keep pushing that age up more and more?>

 

[emilynghiem]

So he's old and responsible enough to go to war and get his leg blown off by an IED, but not old and responsible enough to know rape is wrong?

I would say no, they are not old enough to go to war and to handle the implications.
Most people, even full grown adults are NOT properly prepared for war.

That is why we have an escalation in suicides, post-trauma and drug and crime issues from vets returning home. Not only are more surviving where they come home with more severe disabilities that in the past would have been casualties, but we are not preparing all these people we are sending en masse in the first place.

V look at our politicians - even those with experience, with education and knowledge are NOT fully prepared for what it takes to enforce laws consistently without giving in to political peer pressure, from peers or party, from corporate financiers or the media.

What the **** makes you think teenagers know anything about being responsible adults
when you see the messed up hypocritical adult role models completely in denial about bullying and compromising "equal protection of interests' for political gain at others expense?

And that is on a civil level of govt and law enforcement.
When you add military defense and combat to that, that is a whole other level.

You would have to have the commitment down to enforce the laws for the sake of law above even yourself and your own life and your family, before going into such a situation; you would have to be completely UNCONDITIONAL that even if you come back half dead you would not regret your decision to go to war to defend the Constitution and country.

How many people are trained to do that, really?

Most people I know have no clue what it really takes and really costs people,
and that's why I respect the people even more who do understand and do serve and survive
because of it. The ones who go in, not knowing what they could end up suffering, I have nothing but compassion for, because it takes so much to heal from the wounds and trauma. I don't blame them, but I blame society, myself included, if we don't teach people the true cost of war, crime and abuse and take this for granted as commonplace.

 

[AmyNation]

Yikes! If you know anything about child and adolescent development, 18 is still too early to make independent decisions as adults.

Then why can they choose the president and go to war?

How old were you when you knew rape and violence were wrong?

I have heard that 21 is more realistic for expecting people to act as adults

So 21 to drink, smoke, vote, or be responsible for rape or murder? No penalty for rape or murder if you're 20?

If you are going to fix the problem, then fix it, just punishing it after the fact isn't fixing the cause.

Children don't stop stealing their siblings' toys because they grasp the idea of rights. They stop stealing toys because they don't want to get in trouble again.

The kids are the party ranged from 14-17. Those are children. Their brains aren't fully developed yet.

Developed enough to know rape, theft, and violence are wrong.

Yes, which is why we don't just pat them on the head and send them on their way.

 

[Dragonlady]

don't get me wrong - i want to be clear i'm not defending them

but if that's a defense for her actions why isn't it for theirs?

Because SHE didn't sexually assault and rape anyone, nor did she post naked pictures of them on the internet. She got drunk which is illegal because she's underage, but she didn't violate anyone.

Before the trial, they slandered this girl, essentially saying it was her fault and that she gets drunk at parties a lot, in an effort to imply she consented to all of this or that she knew what was going on.

These boys did all of that, and then laughed about it afterwards. They apologized in court for posting the pictures on the internet. Of course they're sorry they did that. It's how they got caught. But neither of the girls attackers apologized for what they did to her. They're not sorry they did it. They're sorry they got caught.

It's not just what these boys did on the night in question. It's how they treated the victim both during and after the attacks that shows their lack of character. And they were stone cold sober when they did that.

 

[AmyNation]

Why? I joined the Military right after high school and it was great as far as teaching me a work ethic and discipline, things that are hard to learn as an 18 year old in the civilian work force.

Because 18 is still very young,for many, too young to fully understand what your agreeing to. I'm sure the army was great in helping you grow up, I'm just not sure that's what the army should be doing.

At one point when you were 18 you were totally expected to act as an adult, now it seems like we keep pushing that age up more and more?>

At one point 12 year old girls were expected to marry and start producing offspring.

It's the natural progression of our society. When the average life expectancy is 30, 12 seems pretty grown up. Now we've living into the triple digits.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi HG: Please see my reply about not preparing full-grown adults for the implications of war.

By the time we DO have full preparation and training for people of all ages to enforce the laws, even our politicians who seem to have issues with bullying by exclusion and favoring financial and party supporters over the interests of the nation and the Constitution,
we wouldn't HAVE wars, we'd be too busy resolving issues by law enforcement LOCALLY through CIVIL means such as conflict resolution, treatment and therapy for criminal abuse or addiction, mediation and restitution for past violations to deter/prevent recurrences, etc.

THAT "local level" is where we can take and share equal responsibility, between people and government, and fix things before they escalate into global conflicts and war.

By the time you are fully prepared, those same efforts and teamwork would prevent war.

No, they're not. They're teens, 16 and 17, old enough to have lied to get into the army during WWII and be praised for it. They're old enough to know right from wrong be responsible for their decisions.

Would you be making excuses for them if it were you or your daughter?

I'm sure the girl who was raped is glad to know they're just kids...

Yikes! If you know anything about child and adolescent development, 18 is still too early to make independent decisions as adults. The emotional factor of peer pressure, and need for check and balance by adults which was also missing here, are still too great especially where the opportunity for mixing intoxicants with sex, etc.

When I was working at a school, where the director had 50 years of experience teaching in private and public schools, she was dismayed to hear in the news about a teenage store manager of a restaurant given keys and ability to access the store alone; this teenager conspired with friends to rob the store and start a fire to hide the evidience, which resulted in the death of a firefighter and may have escalated the crime to a capital offense. She explained to me that age was TOO YOUNG to be given the keys to the store to manage alone; the peer pressure and inability to make independent decisions without emotional impulses is not appropriate for the level of development of the adolescent brain that is still dealing with too many changes in emotions, hormone levels, and social cues and responses. And she was a well-experienced well-trained teacher with background in child development, who studied at what stages different thresholds are reached, so you recognize them as students progress.

I have heard that 21 is more realistic for expecting people to act as adults;
and the ages between 15-18 are especially prone to needing adult shadowing and mentorship to teach young people how to manage decisions given these social pressures.

This is NOT making "an excuse" for socially destructive or criminal behavior; it is explaining WHY it happens, and why our prisons and juvenile centers are filled with people who failed to control their impulses and did things with a group, following the bad decisions of others, without proper education, upbringing, instruction, experience and support to resist. If you are going to fix the problem, then fix it, just punishing it after the fact isn't fixing the cause.

NOTE: I personally believe that if people are not legally responsible due to age or disability, then SOMEONE else needs to be assigned legal financial and social responsibility, so it isn't the crime victims, society or taxpayers footing the bill every time crimes or damages occur due to someone not being able to act responsibly as a law-abiding citizen. People need to be educated and trained on what it takes to enforce and uphold laws, and if they cannot do this competently, and do not accept social legal and financial responsibility for their actions, they should not have the same rights of citizenship as those who ARE taking full responsibility. There should be conditions and signed agreements in order to enforce laws and quit this nonsense of charging law-abding taxpayers for the crimes of others. All people should agree to pay the costs of their own actions, or else not be granted the privileges of citizenship.

If thats really true and 17, 18 year olds really cannot make good decisions, why do we let them join the Military? thats a pretty big decision! Should the Military age be pushed up?

 

[gallantwarrior]

The scary thing is if these idiots didnt record the crime, they would be scot free wouldn't they?

They allegedly called themselves the 'rape crew'

How many other victims of theirs are out there?

How many people like them took that same message away and learned from this only that sentences are light and to not take/share pictures or video?

The rape crew? sweet Jesus, were these kids raised by wolves? where the fuck are the parents?

Wolves are better parents than the progenitors of these animals.

 

[emilynghiem]

Because 18 is still very young,for many, too young to fully understand what your agreeing to. I'm sure the army was great in helping you grow up, I'm just not sure that's what the army should be doing.

At one point when you were 18 you were totally expected to act as an adult, now it seems like we keep pushing that age up more and more?>

At one point 12 year old girls were expected to marry and start producing offspring.

It's the natural progression of our society. When the average life expectancy is 30, 12 seems pretty grown up. Now we've living into the triple digits.

RE: this message and the other one about people no longer expecting to be independent at 18

one difference i see in culture
is before, people followed authority blindly out of respect for elders/govt/parents etc.

nowadays, people are expected to take responsibility out of free will and reason, not just blindly following the traditions of the past. So it takes longer to develop the same level of performance if you are choosing that freely, by UNDERSTANDING WHY it is necessary to do X Y and Z, rather than it being forced on you where you didn't have a choice.

I run into this all the time with people NOT getting
the difference between owning/managing business property and renting from someone else, and the difference it makes in social responsibility and financial independence.

When you have the FREEDOM to learn the difference, to compare before and after, the leaerning curve may take longer but the lessons and experience can be passed down after that where others benefit. Where it is still by FREE CHOICE not by force of tradition.

the church and religious traditions are going through this also, where instead of following by blind faith, learning WHY and what the principles mean so people choose them freely TAKES LONGER than just ramming it down people's throats where they are trained from early on to follow like sheep. the government is a mess right now from people questioning and rebelling against the ways things were done in the past, until we learn the difference.

It is like society is going through a teenage phase, learning by trial and error, and eventually arriving at mature adulthood and ability for self-governance by free choice not force of law.

 

[gallantwarrior]

They should be charged as accessories, IMO.

If nothing else, they can surely be charged under the Good Samaritan laws passed after the death of Katherine 'Kitty' Genovese and adopted nationwide shortly after.

Every person who laughed, took photos, and said nothing, not doing so much as calling police to report what was happening, was a participant in my eyes.

Damn straight.

I think it takes reminding that the people at this party were kids. I understand how disgusting it is to think of everything they did with an audience and no one stepping up... But, children, especially teens, tend to follow the crowd. Standing up to your peers is hard at any age, but most especially when your young and still figuring out your place in the pack.

Lacking proper parental involvement in their upbringing, these young people still need to learn that there are consequences to their choices. Their age is already considered a mitigating circumstance when they were tried as minors and received lenient sentences. The question begs to be asked, where were all the parents during this entire incident?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Here is CNN on it. Listen to there legal guy. For the rest of there lives they will have to tell just about everyone they know they are rapo's.

CNN grieves that guilty verdict ruined 'promising' lives of Steubenville rapists - YouTube

Somehow, I'm just not feeling their pain. I cannot feel pity or compassion for people who would do what they did and then beg our forgiveness because their "promising careers" were damaged...all without so much as a by-your-leave to their victim. I wonder, did she have a promising career ahead of her?