Stigma of Atheism

[PratchettFan]

Even today, however, the self-proclaimed atheist incurs a stigma of being evil, a heretic who deserve to be a pariah in a society that ostensibly adulates freedom of speech, thought, and religion.

you forgot "irrational"......that's the primary characteristic of atheists......

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

I consider it irrational to condemn accepting unproven things while professing something unprovable......

I agree. Again, no more irrational than Theism.

not true......we don't condemn accepting unproven things......

Of course you do. As I recall, you are a Mormon. Mormons are condemned all the time by other Christians. I have seen multiple posts by Christians here about how Catholics are doomed to hell, Muslims are morally bad, and Atheists are evil. We have seen examples of Buddhists trying to ban Islam, Muslims tearing down Buddhist statues, Muslims killing Muslims over which sect they belong to. Condemnation is a human thing and Theists are just as human as Atheists.

What makes it irrational is the lack of objective evidence to support any of it. What makes it nasty is people.

 

[PratchettFan]

it isn't the left that has that problem. it's the right... hence the pollution of our courts with theocratic judges and legislatures with theocratic, misogynist, gay bashing legislation.

you should move to the US.....things are different here.....

you mean the part of the US that twice elected a democratic president with 52% of the vote? I already live here.

thanks for proving my point.

ah, I assumed since you were listing things that only happened in the US during some liberals imaginary day-dream, that you were referring to some place where they actually happened......

i guess you haven't been paying attention to the misogynist efforts of the rightwing religious zealots to interfere with women's control over their own body.

if you mean being opposed to abortion I suggest you keep in mind that you don't have to be religious to think its a mistake to kill our unborn children.......however, ignorance does seem to be the primary cause of believing its misogynistic........

It is misogynistic. I have never met anyone who actually thought the right to life over rode the right to personal sovereignty, except when it comes to women.

 

[PratchettFan]

Even today, however, the self-proclaimed atheist incurs a stigma of being evil, a heretic who deserve to be a pariah in a society that ostensibly adulates freedom of speech, thought, and religion.

you forgot "irrational"......that's the primary characteristic of atheists......

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

I consider it irrational to condemn accepting unproven things while professing something unprovable......

I agree. Again, no more irrational than Theism.

The primary psychological role of religion is rationalizing the tragedy of death as a good thing to alleviate the anxiety of mortality.

I don't think so. The primary role of religion is to create cohesion within the society.

 

[Iceweasel]

Couple/Few thoughts after reading your post.

1. It is true being religious served a purpose and the religious gene was passed on. I agree with all that stuff. Same as today. Perfect example is guys who go to church to get married. They are there to meet women.

2. Dogs gave up a long time ago being able to pick their own partners and in exchange we feed them, house them, etc.

Couple thoughts. Meeting potential mates of the same faith is rational. The rest of your comments weren't.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Do you see how wrong your thinking is?

sorry no....I've been preoccupied noticing how wrong YOUR thinking is.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Abortion is a necessary thing with us human breeders who can't stop doubling the population. STOP!

why wasn't it a necessary thing for your mother?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Has anyone's soul left their body and watched in the operating room? Nope. That was a dream. The mind playing tricks on you.

actually, my brother had one of his heart attacks in the emergency room......he says he heard the doctor tell his son that "We lost him!".....they hit him with the defibrilator......when the doctor shouted "clear" the second time my brother says he shouted, "don't!....that hurts!"....but nobody heard him, because he was dead.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

you forgot "irrational"......that's the primary characteristic of atheists......

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

I consider it irrational to condemn accepting unproven things while professing something unprovable......

I agree. Again, no more irrational than Theism.

not true......we don't condemn accepting unproven things......

Of course you do. As I recall, you are a Mormon. Mormons are condemned all the time by other Christians. I have seen multiple posts by Christians here about how Catholics are doomed to hell, Muslims are morally bad, and Atheists are evil. We have seen examples of Buddhists trying to ban Islam, Muslims tearing down Buddhist statues, Muslims killing Muslims over which sect they belong to. Condemnation is a human thing and Theists are just as human as Atheists.

What makes it irrational is the lack of objective evidence to support any of it. What makes it nasty is people.

actually, I'm not Mormon......I am a Christian who believes both Mormons and Catholics are also Christians......I will admit to believing Atheists are idiots, but that alone does not make them evil.......in any event, since all the things you listed cannot be proven, and the Christians you accuse apparently believe them, it remains wrong to say that they don't accept things which cannot be proven.....thank you for proving my argument.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

you should move to the US.....things are different here.....

you mean the part of the US that twice elected a democratic president with 52% of the vote? I already live here.

thanks for proving my point.

ah, I assumed since you were listing things that only happened in the US during some liberals imaginary day-dream, that you were referring to some place where they actually happened......

i guess you haven't been paying attention to the misogynist efforts of the rightwing religious zealots to interfere with women's control over their own body.

if you mean being opposed to abortion I suggest you keep in mind that you don't have to be religious to think its a mistake to kill our unborn children.......however, ignorance does seem to be the primary cause of believing its misogynistic........

It is misogynistic. I have never met anyone who actually thought the right to life over rode the right to personal sovereignty, except when it comes to women.

so you don't believe that anyone could favor not killing an unborn child unless they hated women?.......interesting.....overwhelmingly ignorant, but interesting....

can you give me an example of any other situation besides abortion where a "right of personal sovereignty" over rides a right to life?......I mean, if you think I believe abortion is the only time it should be stopped, I would like to know all those other times I should be in favor of it.......

 

[PratchettFan]

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

I consider it irrational to condemn accepting unproven things while professing something unprovable......

I agree. Again, no more irrational than Theism.

not true......we don't condemn accepting unproven things......

Of course you do. As I recall, you are a Mormon. Mormons are condemned all the time by other Christians. I have seen multiple posts by Christians here about how Catholics are doomed to hell, Muslims are morally bad, and Atheists are evil. We have seen examples of Buddhists trying to ban Islam, Muslims tearing down Buddhist statues, Muslims killing Muslims over which sect they belong to. Condemnation is a human thing and Theists are just as human as Atheists.

What makes it irrational is the lack of objective evidence to support any of it. What makes it nasty is people.

actually, I'm not Mormon......I am a Christian who believes both Mormons and Catholics are also Christians......I will admit to believing Atheists are idiots, but that alone does not make them evil.......in any event, since all the things you listed cannot be proven, and the Christians you accuse apparently believe them, it remains wrong to say that they don't accept things which cannot be proven.....thank you for proving my argument.......

You believe they are idiots rather than evil, which is just a change in epithet. The reason they are idiots is because they don't believe your unsupported belief rather than their unsupported belief. Thank you for proving my argument.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I consider it irrational to condemn accepting unproven things while professing something unprovable......

I agree. Again, no more irrational than Theism.

not true......we don't condemn accepting unproven things......

Of course you do. As I recall, you are a Mormon. Mormons are condemned all the time by other Christians. I have seen multiple posts by Christians here about how Catholics are doomed to hell, Muslims are morally bad, and Atheists are evil. We have seen examples of Buddhists trying to ban Islam, Muslims tearing down Buddhist statues, Muslims killing Muslims over which sect they belong to. Condemnation is a human thing and Theists are just as human as Atheists.

What makes it irrational is the lack of objective evidence to support any of it. What makes it nasty is people.

actually, I'm not Mormon......I am a Christian who believes both Mormons and Catholics are also Christians......I will admit to believing Atheists are idiots, but that alone does not make them evil.......in any event, since all the things you listed cannot be proven, and the Christians you accuse apparently believe them, it remains wrong to say that they don't accept things which cannot be proven.....thank you for proving my argument.......

You believe they are idiots rather than evil, which is just a change in epithet. The reason they are idiots is because they don't believe your unsupported belief rather than their unsupported belief. Thank you for proving my argument.

no, the reason I think they are idiots is the quality of the posts I see from atheists on this and other boards over the last fifteen years.....I mean seriously.....can you consider Seally and Hollie to be anything other than idiots?.......

 

[PratchettFan]

you mean the part of the US that twice elected a democratic president with 52% of the vote? I already live here.

thanks for proving my point.

ah, I assumed since you were listing things that only happened in the US during some liberals imaginary day-dream, that you were referring to some place where they actually happened......

i guess you haven't been paying attention to the misogynist efforts of the rightwing religious zealots to interfere with women's control over their own body.

if you mean being opposed to abortion I suggest you keep in mind that you don't have to be religious to think its a mistake to kill our unborn children.......however, ignorance does seem to be the primary cause of believing its misogynistic........

It is misogynistic. I have never met anyone who actually thought the right to life over rode the right to personal sovereignty, except when it comes to women.

so you don't believe that anyone could favor not killing an unborn child unless they hated women?.......interesting.....overwhelmingly ignorant, but interesting....

can you give me an example of any other situation besides abortion where a "right of personal sovereignty" over rides a right to life?......I mean, if you think I believe abortion is the only time it should be stopped, I would like to know all those other times I should be in favor of it.......

Certainly. I require a blood transplant or I will die. I have a rare blood type and you are the only available match. But I can't force you to donate your blood. I have no right to your blood regardless of my need. Your right to personal sovereignty over rides my right to life. Would you like to see that changed? How about if I need an organ transplant, you are a match and you just died. Should I be able to have your organs harvested regardless how you might have felt about it, regardless of the wishes of your family? At what point do you think my right to life gives me possession of your body?

 

[PratchettFan]

I agree. Again, no more irrational than Theism.

not true......we don't condemn accepting unproven things......

Of course you do. As I recall, you are a Mormon. Mormons are condemned all the time by other Christians. I have seen multiple posts by Christians here about how Catholics are doomed to hell, Muslims are morally bad, and Atheists are evil. We have seen examples of Buddhists trying to ban Islam, Muslims tearing down Buddhist statues, Muslims killing Muslims over which sect they belong to. Condemnation is a human thing and Theists are just as human as Atheists.

What makes it irrational is the lack of objective evidence to support any of it. What makes it nasty is people.

actually, I'm not Mormon......I am a Christian who believes both Mormons and Catholics are also Christians......I will admit to believing Atheists are idiots, but that alone does not make them evil.......in any event, since all the things you listed cannot be proven, and the Christians you accuse apparently believe them, it remains wrong to say that they don't accept things which cannot be proven.....thank you for proving my argument.......

You believe they are idiots rather than evil, which is just a change in epithet. The reason they are idiots is because they don't believe your unsupported belief rather than their unsupported belief. Thank you for proving my argument.

no, the reason I think they are idiots is the quality of the posts I see from atheists on this and other boards over the last fifteen years.....I mean seriously.....can you consider Seally and Hollie to be anything other than idiots?.......

I think they are wrong, but I have no idea whether or not they are idiots. Too small an issue for that judgment. But you are talking about Atheists as a group, not individuals. You didn't say Sealy was an idiot, you said Atheists were idiots. Are there dumb Atheists? Of course, just as there are dumb Theists. There are brilliant Atheists and brilliant Theists. You are categorizing an entire group and there is only one thing which makes them a group, their belief.

 

[asterism]

In Texas they went from something like 30 places you could get an abortion to 7. A rich white bitch will go drive to get an abortion. A poor people might not have a car or the $500 to get her abortion. Abortion is a necessary thing with us human breeders who can't stop doubling the population. STOP!

There it is, the eugenics angle at the root of abortion advocates.

Now go on and tell us that Margaret Sanger wasn't important.

 

[asterism]

There is no general stigma to atheism, only a sorrowfulness.

PLEASE don't feel sorry for us. We sometimes feel sorry for you because life is too short to be like you are. Sorry you are so miserable you need an imaginary friend to get you through this terrible life. Don't worry, one day heaven awaits. LOL

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

How can one be an atheist and believe that one has a soul?

There's the physical (body) and the thinking feeling part of us that we all call the "soul"

Incorporeal or uncarnate means without a physical body, presence or form.

The soul, in many religious, philosophical and mythological traditions, is

I think he was being philisophical.

Ask if what happens to his soul when he dies and I don't think he thinks it goes to heaven. That's just wishful thinking. Bible talk.

Atheists using religious imagery (like Ingersoll above) are amusing.

Lets not get into a long discussion about the soul because like every other argument you guys have for god(s) whatever your soul is does not prove a god exists let alone any particular god.

The atheist is not a romantic, and that has real world consequences. Or, he suspends his true beliefs in order to indulge himself is the frivolities of romanticism.

Can the atheist stand aside and leave the future of the human race to a crap-shoot? 'Eugenics' is a bad word now, after the horrors of the 20th century. 'Bio-engineering' is less of a dirty word.

Politically speaking, the role of government must play a larger part for the atheist. Hobbes' Leviathan becomes more of a political beast. Once again, without Providence, and without vertical truth illuminating Man from a higher plane, good government is key. Social engineering is key. Our education system must indoctrinate the children on issues of morality and ethics rather than simply teaching reading, writing and math.

We aren't? Could have fooled every woman I've ever been with. We also feel love. So do dogs. Did you see the latest report on "Do Dogs Really Love Us?" Turns out they do. When you look them in the eyes the love pharamone goes off.

What beliefs do we have to "suspend" in order to "fake" love?

It isn't on God to save this planet. This is on us. Butt fucking isn't destroying the planet, man made global warming and plastic are. The future of the human race is on us not god.

You guys love big government more than we do. In fact if you could you'd impose your Christianity on us just like the Muslims force it on their citizens. And in your world, the line is blurred between government and religion. And then you would trust it more? Fool!

You wish our schools didn't teach morality and ethics? What a fool you must be. I went into this charter school where a bunch of poor kids go. Many of them don't have 2 parents teaching them right and wrong. So on the wall of the school read words like Honesty, Respect, Empathy, etc. You object to that? Well I object to all the lies your religion tells before it gets to the good stuff like love thy neighbor, feed the poor and heal the sick. Must be why you guys ignore that stuff.

First of all I'm not a Christian, though I'm cosmologically more closely related to the Christian than to the atheist. I'm a Druid, as I said, a pagan, and a polytheist. I would trace the general heritage of my beliefs back to Pythagoras.

You say that the future of the world hinges upon nothing that we might name 'Destiny', or 'Providence', or 'Divine Will'. Why can't we have a respectful disagreement on that?

I have no problem, per se, with public schools fostering values such as honesty, respect and empathy. Yet, where do those values come from? These are not values that can be derived from logic, beyond the argument of practicality and our material needs for security and comfort. Even the complete nihilist can come to some agreement about how to run an efficient society, if he is utilitarian.

But, most atheists are not nihilists. They just don't recognize that the things that truly matter to them are not discovered through positivism/empiricism. A machine can follow logic. A machine can calculate 2+2, and can predict what will happen when 100 degree water is poured over ice. It takes much more to be human. Humans are filled with meaning, and in fact starve without it.

1. I was just having that conversation with my parents this weekend. My mom said Karmanos the rich cancer guy wanted to date her. I called her an idiot and said if she would have married him my name would be Sealybobo Karmanos. LOL. Of course I was joking because had she married him I wouldn't have been born. So was it my destiny to be born? Was it an abortions destiny to be aborted?

I asked them if the date of their death has already been determined or can they change their fate? Because they're always telling me to watch my weight and not smoke. Why? Isn't the date of my death already pre determined?

2. We can have a respectful disagreement on all this. I know somietimes I need to chill but you guys need tough love too. LOL.

This site answers almost everything Why there is no god

Number 4

Morality is a cultural concept with a basis in evolutionary psychology [2] and game theory [2]. Species whose members were predisposed to cooperate were more likely to survive and pass on their genes. Reciprocacy, altruism and other so-called ‘moral’ characteristics are evident in many species [2]. The neurochemical thought to regulate morality and empathy is oxytocin [2].

Religious texts are simply part of many early attempts to codify moral precepts. Secular law, flexible with the shifting moral zeitgeist, has long since superseded religion as a source of moral directives for the majority of developed societies. Secular ethics offers a number of competing moral frameworks which do not derive from a purported supernatural source.

See also: Dawkins – Source of Morality, Babies can tell right from wrong, Moral behaviour in animals, Altruism in Chimps and Toddlers, Trust, Morality and Oxytocin (a must watch), Evolution of Cooperation, Science of Morality. Animals Cooperating: Monkeys, Birds, Chimps.

The god character of the Bible is a misogynistic tyrant that condones and even orders the practice of slavery, rape of women and murder of children. The moment you disagree with a single instruction of the Bible, such as the command to kill any bride who is not a virgin or any child who disrespects their parents, then you acknowledge that there exists a superior standard by which to judge moral action and thus no need to rely on an ancient, primitive and barbaric fantasy.

See also: the Euthyphro dilemma, Epicurus Trilemma, Problem of Evil, Morality – Good without Gods (a must watch), Dawkins on Absolute Morality (a must watch), The West Wing (a must watch), Deconversion: Morality (a must watch).

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” – Epicurus

"I know somietimes I need to chill but you guys need tough love too. LOL. "

^^^ vocal minority ^^^

 

[PostmodernProph]

ah, I assumed since you were listing things that only happened in the US during some liberals imaginary day-dream, that you were referring to some place where they actually happened......

i guess you haven't been paying attention to the misogynist efforts of the rightwing religious zealots to interfere with women's control over their own body.

if you mean being opposed to abortion I suggest you keep in mind that you don't have to be religious to think its a mistake to kill our unborn children.......however, ignorance does seem to be the primary cause of believing its misogynistic........

It is misogynistic. I have never met anyone who actually thought the right to life over rode the right to personal sovereignty, except when it comes to women.

so you don't believe that anyone could favor not killing an unborn child unless they hated women?.......interesting.....overwhelmingly ignorant, but interesting....

can you give me an example of any other situation besides abortion where a "right of personal sovereignty" over rides a right to life?......I mean, if you think I believe abortion is the only time it should be stopped, I would like to know all those other times I should be in favor of it.......

Certainly. I require a blood transplant or I will die. I have a rare blood type and you are the only available match. But I can't force you to donate your blood. I have no right to your blood regardless of my need. Your right to personal sovereignty over rides my right to life. Would you like to see that changed? How about if I need an organ transplant, you are a match and you just died. Should I be able to have your organs harvested regardless how you might have felt about it, regardless of the wishes of your family? At what point do you think my right to life gives me possession of your body?

isn't that the exact opposite of abortion?......you give examples where sovereignty may not be infringed to save a life, to justify the taking of life to protect sovereignty......

 

[PostmodernProph]

not true......we don't condemn accepting unproven things......

Of course you do. As I recall, you are a Mormon. Mormons are condemned all the time by other Christians. I have seen multiple posts by Christians here about how Catholics are doomed to hell, Muslims are morally bad, and Atheists are evil. We have seen examples of Buddhists trying to ban Islam, Muslims tearing down Buddhist statues, Muslims killing Muslims over which sect they belong to. Condemnation is a human thing and Theists are just as human as Atheists.

What makes it irrational is the lack of objective evidence to support any of it. What makes it nasty is people.

actually, I'm not Mormon......I am a Christian who believes both Mormons and Catholics are also Christians......I will admit to believing Atheists are idiots, but that alone does not make them evil.......in any event, since all the things you listed cannot be proven, and the Christians you accuse apparently believe them, it remains wrong to say that they don't accept things which cannot be proven.....thank you for proving my argument.......

You believe they are idiots rather than evil, which is just a change in epithet. The reason they are idiots is because they don't believe your unsupported belief rather than their unsupported belief. Thank you for proving my argument.

no, the reason I think they are idiots is the quality of the posts I see from atheists on this and other boards over the last fifteen years.....I mean seriously.....can you consider Seally and Hollie to be anything other than idiots?.......

I think they are wrong, but I have no idea whether or not they are idiots. Too small an issue for that judgment. But you are talking about Atheists as a group, not individuals. You didn't say Sealy was an idiot, you said Atheists were idiots. Are there dumb Atheists? Of course, just as there are dumb Theists. There are brilliant Atheists and brilliant Theists. You are categorizing an entire group and there is only one thing which makes them a group, their belief.

I am categorizing all the atheists I have met on this an any other board.....what makes them a group is the idiocy of their arguments........

 

[jillian]

i guess you haven't been paying attention to the misogynist efforts of the rightwing religious zealots to interfere with women's control over their own body.

if you mean being opposed to abortion I suggest you keep in mind that you don't have to be religious to think its a mistake to kill our unborn children.......however, ignorance does seem to be the primary cause of believing its misogynistic........

It is misogynistic. I have never met anyone who actually thought the right to life over rode the right to personal sovereignty, except when it comes to women.

so you don't believe that anyone could favor not killing an unborn child unless they hated women?.......interesting.....overwhelmingly ignorant, but interesting....

can you give me an example of any other situation besides abortion where a "right of personal sovereignty" over rides a right to life?......I mean, if you think I believe abortion is the only time it should be stopped, I would like to know all those other times I should be in favor of it.......

Certainly. I require a blood transplant or I will die. I have a rare blood type and you are the only available match. But I can't force you to donate your blood. I have no right to your blood regardless of my need. Your right to personal sovereignty over rides my right to life. Would you like to see that changed? How about if I need an organ transplant, you are a match and you just died. Should I be able to have your organs harvested regardless how you might have felt about it, regardless of the wishes of your family? At what point do you think my right to life gives me possession of your body?

isn't that the exact opposite of abortion?......you give examples where sovereignty may not be infringed to save a life, to justify the taking of life to protect sovereignty......

the state isn't "taking a life". roe v wade is based on the shifting governmental interest during the course of the pregnancy versus the right of a woman to exercise dominion over her own body.

mostly, you need to keep your religious judgments out of our law.

appreciated.

 

[PostmodernProph]

if you mean being opposed to abortion I suggest you keep in mind that you don't have to be religious to think its a mistake to kill our unborn children.......however, ignorance does seem to be the primary cause of believing its misogynistic........

It is misogynistic. I have never met anyone who actually thought the right to life over rode the right to personal sovereignty, except when it comes to women.

so you don't believe that anyone could favor not killing an unborn child unless they hated women?.......interesting.....overwhelmingly ignorant, but interesting....

can you give me an example of any other situation besides abortion where a "right of personal sovereignty" over rides a right to life?......I mean, if you think I believe abortion is the only time it should be stopped, I would like to know all those other times I should be in favor of it.......

Certainly. I require a blood transplant or I will die. I have a rare blood type and you are the only available match. But I can't force you to donate your blood. I have no right to your blood regardless of my need. Your right to personal sovereignty over rides my right to life. Would you like to see that changed? How about if I need an organ transplant, you are a match and you just died. Should I be able to have your organs harvested regardless how you might have felt about it, regardless of the wishes of your family? At what point do you think my right to life gives me possession of your body?

isn't that the exact opposite of abortion?......you give examples where sovereignty may not be infringed to save a life, to justify the taking of life to protect sovereignty......

the state isn't "taking a life".

did you see me saying that the state was taking a life?.......

 

[jillian]

Of course you do. As I recall, you are a Mormon. Mormons are condemned all the time by other Christians. I have seen multiple posts by Christians here about how Catholics are doomed to hell, Muslims are morally bad, and Atheists are evil. We have seen examples of Buddhists trying to ban Islam, Muslims tearing down Buddhist statues, Muslims killing Muslims over which sect they belong to. Condemnation is a human thing and Theists are just as human as Atheists.

What makes it irrational is the lack of objective evidence to support any of it. What makes it nasty is people.

actually, I'm not Mormon......I am a Christian who believes both Mormons and Catholics are also Christians......I will admit to believing Atheists are idiots, but that alone does not make them evil.......in any event, since all the things you listed cannot be proven, and the Christians you accuse apparently believe them, it remains wrong to say that they don't accept things which cannot be proven.....thank you for proving my argument.......

You believe they are idiots rather than evil, which is just a change in epithet. The reason they are idiots is because they don't believe your unsupported belief rather than their unsupported belief. Thank you for proving my argument.

no, the reason I think they are idiots is the quality of the posts I see from atheists on this and other boards over the last fifteen years.....I mean seriously.....can you consider Seally and Hollie to be anything other than idiots?.......

I think they are wrong, but I have no idea whether or not they are idiots. Too small an issue for that judgment. But you are talking about Atheists as a group, not individuals. You didn't say Sealy was an idiot, you said Atheists were idiots. Are there dumb Atheists? Of course, just as there are dumb Theists. There are brilliant Atheists and brilliant Theists. You are categorizing an entire group and there is only one thing which makes them a group, their belief.

I am categorizing all the atheists I have met on this an any other board.....what makes them a group is the idiocy of their arguments........

again, i'm not an atheist. but I certainly don't want fundie extremists telling me what to do.