Stigma of Atheism

[sealybobo]

be sure to tell steven hawkings that he's "irrational".

while i'm not an atheist, there is nothing irrational about atheism.

No problem. If Stephen Hawking is an Atheist, then his Atheism is irrational. He has no more evidence there is or is not a God than anyone else. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is pure belief and pure belief is irrational. I doubt he would argue otherwise.

spirituality, which I have no problem with, is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic.

Any position arrived at in the absence of evidence is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic. I have no problem with any of them.

no one has to prove a negative.

You do if one claims it to be true. Calling it a negative does not get you off the hook of backing up a claim. And it is quite easy to prove a negative. You just have to have the evidence. If you don't have the evidence, what you do is not make the claim or admit it is nothing but belief.

Zeus said shut the fuck up. Why do you defy a god? Prove he didn't say it.

 

[sealybobo]

Most people are functionally agnostic, by default. They don't concern themselves with existential questions.

I'm a Druid, raised in an atheist household, with Catholic and Freemason grandparents.

I have no interest in battles over semantics. For myself, the question is this; How does the atheist cosmology influence action in the world.

What is 'love'? Is it merely and completely an adaptive chemical response in the nervous system, the result of eons of random contingencies? The atheist is not a romantic, and that has real world consequences. Or, he suspends his true beliefs in order to indulge himself is the frivolities of romanticism.

If there is no invisible hand of destiny, or Providence to place one's trust in, how does that play out? Can the atheist stand aside and leave the future of the human race to a crap-shoot? 'Eugenics' is a bad word now, after the horrors of the 20th century. 'Bio-engineering' is less of a dirty word.

Politically speaking, the role of government must play a larger part for the atheist. Hobbes' Leviathan becomes more of a political beast. Once again, without Providence, and without vertical truth illuminating Man from a higher plane, good government is key. Social engineering is key. Our education system must indoctrinate the children on issues of morality and ethics rather than simply teaching reading, writing and math.

Anderson Cooper Does your dog really love you - CBS News

By the way. Many of us were just as gullible as you theists are at one point in our lives and believe it or not it we didn't lose our religion because we are angry or evil people. We just wised up.

"The most interesting thing that Brian Hare said to me, that has stuck with me, is that when dogs are looking at you, they're 'hugging you with their eyes,'" says Cooper.

According to Hare, oxytocin-- same hormone that helps new mothers bond with their babies-- is released in both dogs and humans when they play, touch, or look into one another's eyes.

 

[Iceweasel]

Sometimes the minority is right. It's why we aren't an actual democracy which is majority rules. We have a constitution that sometimes tells the majority they are wrong. Like gay marriage, abortion and this issue for 3.

The minority don't define a culture, by definition. That's what keeps flying over your head.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Even today, however, the self-proclaimed atheist incurs a stigma of being evil, a heretic who deserve to be a pariah in a society that ostensibly adulates freedom of speech, thought, and religion.

you forgot "irrational"......that's the primary characteristic of atheists......

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

I consider it irrational to condemn accepting unproven things while professing something unprovable......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Even today, however, the self-proclaimed atheist incurs a stigma of being evil, a heretic who deserve to be a pariah in a society that ostensibly adulates freedom of speech, thought, and religion.

you forgot "irrational"......that's the primary characteristic of atheists......

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

be sure to tell steven hawkings that he's "irrational".

certainly.....tell him to stop by.....

 

[Carla_Danger]

Take God from the equation for billions whose lives consist of toil, hunger, and drudgery, and what do they have left? Take the abstraction called faith-based "hope" from their lives, and what do they have left?

Reality.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Of course. There are more religious types than there are Atheists. I'm sure you see a lot more religious types wearing t-shirts than Atheists, that doesn't mean they don't wear them.

if you mean religious types are more visible... yes, they are, because they insist on imposing their beliefs on people. are there *more* religious types? In this country? yes. but that doesn't negate the stupidity of thinking someone who doesn't worship as you do is inherently evil.

nor does it change the fact that I see far more of what I would consider "immorality" from the hyper religious.

but then again, I suppose that depends on what one finds immoral.

Not more visible, just more. Atheists represent less than 3% of the adult population in the US, of course you are going to see less immoral Atheists, but not because they are any less immoral. It's because there are less of them. Atheists are human beings, just like any other human beings.

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?
.

I find it amusing when folks on the left find it impossible to distinguish between religious and political issues......not to mention simply being wrong about both......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Not more visible, just more. Atheists represent less than 3% of the adult population in the US, of course you are going to see less immoral Atheists, but not because they are any less immoral. It's because there are less of them. Atheists are human beings, just like any other human beings.

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?

as I said, i'm not an atheist. but I don't like religious zealots imposing themselves on others. I will, of course, concede there are losers in every group of people and good among every group of people.

but if you note, the premise of the o/p was that somehow "people" think atheists are evil. my response, again, is that atheists are only "evil" to the extremist religious right. most of us, as i'm sure you'll agree, view each other as individuals who fall and rise on our own merits.

Would you consider Atheists who do exactly what you are talking about to be religious zealots?

no. atheism is not a religion. it is an absence of religion. I would, however, consider them silly as what others believe, if they aren't hurting anyone else and don't want me to live by their religious credos, then as we say in Yiddish, "zai gezundt" (go in good health).

atheism isn't an absence of religion......its an absence of intelligence......

 

[sealybobo]

Sometimes the minority is right. It's why we aren't an actual democracy which is majority rules. We have a constitution that sometimes tells the majority they are wrong. Like gay marriage, abortion and this issue for 3.

The minority don't define a culture, by definition. That's what keeps flying over your head.

Neither do Christians. Sorry, too many of us Athiests, Agnostics & Muslims for you Christians to claim that you define our culture.

And I love it how no Jews founded this country but you guys have an unholy alliance with each other now because both your stories come from the same original lie, so you like to say we are a "Judao Christian" country. Gimme a break. We are a secular society.

Also, so if/when Muslims ever outnumber you Christians, are you going to let them re define the culture or finally understand why and how here in America, we let you stupid Christians be stupid Christians and you let dumb Muslims be dumb Muslims and us atheists may be the minority but so was Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round.

No one back in Columbus' day thought they were dumb because the majority of the people in that society agreed with them that the world was flat and that God existed.

 

[jillian]

if you mean religious types are more visible... yes, they are, because they insist on imposing their beliefs on people. are there *more* religious types? In this country? yes. but that doesn't negate the stupidity of thinking someone who doesn't worship as you do is inherently evil.

nor does it change the fact that I see far more of what I would consider "immorality" from the hyper religious.

but then again, I suppose that depends on what one finds immoral.

Not more visible, just more. Atheists represent less than 3% of the adult population in the US, of course you are going to see less immoral Atheists, but not because they are any less immoral. It's because there are less of them. Atheists are human beings, just like any other human beings.

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?
.

I find it amusing when folks on the left find it impossible to distinguish between religious and political issues......not to mention simply being wrong about both......

it isn't the left that has that problem. it's the right... hence the pollution of our courts with theocratic judges and legislatures with theocratic, misogynist, gay bashing legislation.

 

[sealybobo]

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?

as I said, i'm not an atheist. but I don't like religious zealots imposing themselves on others. I will, of course, concede there are losers in every group of people and good among every group of people.

but if you note, the premise of the o/p was that somehow "people" think atheists are evil. my response, again, is that atheists are only "evil" to the extremist religious right. most of us, as i'm sure you'll agree, view each other as individuals who fall and rise on our own merits.

Would you consider Atheists who do exactly what you are talking about to be religious zealots?

no. atheism is not a religion. it is an absence of religion. I would, however, consider them silly as what others believe, if they aren't hurting anyone else and don't want me to live by their religious credos, then as we say in Yiddish, "zai gezundt" (go in good health).

atheism isn't an absence of religion......its an absence of intelligence......

Please explain why theists are the intelligent ones when all you are doing is swallowing a story your ancient primitive superstitious ancestors told you? And one that can't possibly be true. How many centuries will it take for your brain to evolve?

 

[jillian]

Sometimes the minority is right. It's why we aren't an actual democracy which is majority rules. We have a constitution that sometimes tells the majority they are wrong. Like gay marriage, abortion and this issue for 3.

The minority don't define a culture, by definition. That's what keeps flying over your head.

Neither do Christians. Sorry, too many of us Athiests, Agnostics & Muslims for you Christians to claim that you define our culture.

And I love it how no Jews founded this country but you guys have an unholy alliance with each other now because both your stories come from the same original lie, so you like to say we are a "Judao Christian" country. Gimme a break. We are a secular society.

Also, so if/when Muslims ever outnumber you Christians, are you going to let them re define the culture or finally understand why and how here in America, we let you stupid Christians be stupid Christians and you let dumb Muslims be dumb Muslims and us atheists may be the minority but so was Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round.

No one back in Columbus' day thought they were dumb because the majority of the people in that society agreed with them that the world was flat and that God existed.

an "unholy alliance" with jews?

idiotic....

extremes on the left are as stupid as extremes on the right. and your anti-Semitism is no better than their misogyny.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Take God from the equation for billions whose lives consist of toil, hunger, and drudgery, and what do they have left? Take the abstraction called faith-based "hope" from their lives, and what do they have left?

Reality.

What "reality"? YOUR reality?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Not more visible, just more. Atheists represent less than 3% of the adult population in the US, of course you are going to see less immoral Atheists, but not because they are any less immoral. It's because there are less of them. Atheists are human beings, just like any other human beings.

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?
.

I find it amusing when folks on the left find it impossible to distinguish between religious and political issues......not to mention simply being wrong about both......

it isn't the left that has that problem. it's the right... hence the pollution of our courts with theocratic judges and legislatures with theocratic, misogynist, gay bashing legislation.

you should move to the US.....things are different here.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?

as I said, i'm not an atheist. but I don't like religious zealots imposing themselves on others. I will, of course, concede there are losers in every group of people and good among every group of people.

but if you note, the premise of the o/p was that somehow "people" think atheists are evil. my response, again, is that atheists are only "evil" to the extremist religious right. most of us, as i'm sure you'll agree, view each other as individuals who fall and rise on our own merits.

Would you consider Atheists who do exactly what you are talking about to be religious zealots?

no. atheism is not a religion. it is an absence of religion. I would, however, consider them silly as what others believe, if they aren't hurting anyone else and don't want me to live by their religious credos, then as we say in Yiddish, "zai gezundt" (go in good health).

atheism isn't an absence of religion......its an absence of intelligence......

Please explain why theists are the intelligent ones when all you are doing is swallowing a story your ancient primitive superstitious ancestors told you? And one that can't possibly be true. How many centuries will it take for your brain to evolve?

dude, you should read your posts......then you wouldn't argue with me....

 

[jillian]

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?
.

I find it amusing when folks on the left find it impossible to distinguish between religious and political issues......not to mention simply being wrong about both......

it isn't the left that has that problem. it's the right... hence the pollution of our courts with theocratic judges and legislatures with theocratic, misogynist, gay bashing legislation.

you should move to the US.....things are different here.....

you mean the part of the US that twice elected a democratic president with 52% of the vote? I already live here.

thanks for proving my point.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?
.

I find it amusing when folks on the left find it impossible to distinguish between religious and political issues......not to mention simply being wrong about both......

it isn't the left that has that problem. it's the right... hence the pollution of our courts with theocratic judges and legislatures with theocratic, misogynist, gay bashing legislation.

you should move to the US.....things are different here.....

you mean the part of the US that twice elected a democratic president with 52% of the vote? I already live here.

thanks for proving my point.

ah, I assumed since you were listing things that only happened in the US during some liberals imaginary day-dream, that you were referring to some place where they actually happened......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Sometimes the minority is right. It's why we aren't an actual democracy which is majority rules. We have a constitution that sometimes tells the majority they are wrong. Like gay marriage, abortion and this issue for 3.

The minority don't define a culture, by definition. That's what keeps flying over your head.

Neither do Christians. Sorry, too many of us Athiests, Agnostics & Muslims for you Christians to claim that you define our culture.

And I love it how no Jews founded this country but you guys have an unholy alliance with each other now because both your stories come from the same original lie, so you like to say we are a "Judao Christian" country. Gimme a break. We are a secular society.

Also, so if/when Muslims ever outnumber you Christians, are you going to let them re define the culture or finally understand why and how here in America, we let you stupid Christians be stupid Christians and you let dumb Muslims be dumb Muslims and us atheists may be the minority but so was Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round.

No one back in Columbus' day thought they were dumb because the majority of the people in that society agreed with them that the world was flat and that God existed.

an "unholy alliance" with jews?

idiotic....

extremes on the left are as stupid as extremes on the right. and your anti-Semitism is no better than their misogyny.

you shouldn't call Seally idiotic....he's one of yours......

 

[Iceweasel]

Neither do Christians. Sorry, too many of us Athiests, Agnostics & Muslims for you Christians to claim that you define our culture.

I said repeatedly that I wasn't religious. Your pea brain simply can't accept what it doesn't already believe.

And I love it how no Jews founded this country but you guys have an unholy alliance with each other now because both your stories come from the same original lie, so you like to say we are a "Judao Christian" country. Gimme a break. We are a secular society.

Also, so if/when Muslims ever outnumber you Christians, are you going to let them re define the culture or finally understand why and how here in America, we let you stupid Christians be stupid Christians and you let dumb Muslims be dumb Muslims and us atheists may be the minority but so was Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round.

No one back in Columbus' day thought they were dumb because the majority of the people in that society agreed with them that the world was flat and that God existed.

We are not and never have been a secular society, sorry. We have a secular Constitution but it has always been a predominately Christian society. How many examples would you need? Some of the founders were Deists but even they went along with the Christian theme and gave Bibles to the troops, opened meetings with prayer, honored Christian holidays, etc.

Most Europeans knew the Earth was round by then, sorry. And i thought Christopher was a Christian?

 

[Carla_Danger]

Take God from the equation for billions whose lives consist of toil, hunger, and drudgery, and what do they have left? Take the abstraction called faith-based "hope" from their lives, and what do they have left?

Reality.

What "reality"? YOUR reality?

No, THEIR reality....the reality of THEIR situation, the reality of THEIR lives.