Stigma of Atheism

[jwoodie]

Not THIS again.

How about you go read the dozens of other threads that started with the same bull-oney?

And then say why it is that you so-called christians are always about putting people down, name calling, nastiness and lies?

As long as you're not trying to shove them down my throat, you're more than welcome to your beliefs. Why wonAtheism't you extend that same courtesy to others?

MYOB.

because hyper religious zealots hate people who don't agree with their narrow world view and pretend what they think is legitimate.

to the o/p.... no... no one thinks atheists are evil except for the rabid religious right. most people judge the person.

personally, I see a lot more immoral so-called religious types than I do immoral atheists.

Your post clearly identifies the elephant in the room: Liberalism is the religion of the Left, and Atheism is its way of attacking its political opponents under the pretense of nonpartisan rationality.

 

[jillian]

Not THIS again.

How about you go read the dozens of other threads that started with the same bull-oney?

And then say why it is that you so-called christians are always about putting people down, name calling, nastiness and lies?

As long as you're not trying to shove them down my throat, you're more than welcome to your beliefs. Why wonAtheism't you extend that same courtesy to others?

MYOB.

because hyper religious zealots hate people who don't agree with their narrow world view and pretend what they think is legitimate.

to the o/p.... no... no one thinks atheists are evil except for the rabid religious right. most people judge the person.

personally, I see a lot more immoral so-called religious types than I do immoral atheists.

Your post clearly identifies the elephant in the room: Liberalism is the religion of the Left, and Atheism is its way of attacking its political opponents under the pretense of nonpartisan rationality.

I have a religion.

but thanks for the troll post.

 

[JakeStarkey]

atheism, which I have no problem with, is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Christians and other religionists are found on Left, Center, and Right.

To claim God loves you better because you are right wing is just plain silly. That's like modern day evangelicals are claiming they are just like believers in Paul's day.

 

[PratchettFan]

Of course. There are more religious types than there are Atheists. I'm sure you see a lot more religious types wearing t-shirts than Atheists, that doesn't mean they don't wear them.

if you mean religious types are more visible... yes, they are, because they insist on imposing their beliefs on people. are there *more* religious types? In this country? yes. but that doesn't negate the stupidity of thinking someone who doesn't worship as you do is inherently evil.

nor does it change the fact that I see far more of what I would consider "immorality" from the hyper religious.

but then again, I suppose that depends on what one finds immoral.

Not more visible, just more. Atheists represent less than 3% of the adult population in the US, of course you are going to see less immoral Atheists, but not because they are any less immoral. It's because there are less of them. Atheists are human beings, just like any other human beings.

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?

as I said, i'm not an atheist. but I don't like religious zealots imposing themselves on others. I will, of course, concede there are losers in every group of people and good among every group of people.

but if you note, the premise of the o/p was that somehow "people" think atheists are evil. my response, again, is that atheists are only "evil" to the extremist religious right. most of us, as i'm sure you'll agree, view each other as individuals who fall and rise on our own merits.

Would you consider Atheists who do exactly what you are talking about to be religious zealots?

 

[jillian]

atheism, which I have no problem with, is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic.

an absence of faith is not "faith-based".

 

[JakeStarkey]

yup if you believe God does not exist without proof, you are doing it as a proof

 

[PratchettFan]

Even today, however, the self-proclaimed atheist incurs a stigma of being evil, a heretic who deserve to be a pariah in a society that ostensibly adulates freedom of speech, thought, and religion.

you forgot "irrational"......that's the primary characteristic of atheists......

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

be sure to tell steven hawkings that he's "irrational".

while i'm not an atheist, there is nothing irrational about atheism.

No problem. If Stephen Hawking is an Atheist, then his Atheism is irrational. He has no more evidence there is or is not a God than anyone else. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is pure belief and pure belief is irrational. I doubt he would argue otherwise.

spirituality, which I have no problem with, is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic.

Any position arrived at in the absence of evidence is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic. I have no problem with any of them.

 

[PratchettFan]

atheism, which I have no problem with, is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic.

an absence of faith is not "faith-based".

That pre-supposes Atheism is an absence of faith. Calling it that does not make it that. The only position which might be considered an absence of faith is neutrality, considering it equally possible there is or is not a God.

 

[jillian]

if you mean religious types are more visible... yes, they are, because they insist on imposing their beliefs on people. are there *more* religious types? In this country? yes. but that doesn't negate the stupidity of thinking someone who doesn't worship as you do is inherently evil.

nor does it change the fact that I see far more of what I would consider "immorality" from the hyper religious.

but then again, I suppose that depends on what one finds immoral.

Not more visible, just more. Atheists represent less than 3% of the adult population in the US, of course you are going to see less immoral Atheists, but not because they are any less immoral. It's because there are less of them. Atheists are human beings, just like any other human beings.

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?

as I said, i'm not an atheist. but I don't like religious zealots imposing themselves on others. I will, of course, concede there are losers in every group of people and good among every group of people.

but if you note, the premise of the o/p was that somehow "people" think atheists are evil. my response, again, is that atheists are only "evil" to the extremist religious right. most of us, as i'm sure you'll agree, view each other as individuals who fall and rise on our own merits.

Would you consider Atheists who do exactly what you are talking about to be religious zealots?

no. atheism is not a religion. it is an absence of religion. I would, however, consider them silly as what others believe, if they aren't hurting anyone else and don't want me to live by their religious credos, then as we say in Yiddish, "zai gezundt" (go in good health).

 

[JakeStarkey]

Atheist faith operates like a religion

You believe God does not exist on faith.

 

[jillian]

you forgot "irrational"......that's the primary characteristic of atheists......

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

be sure to tell steven hawkings that he's "irrational".

while i'm not an atheist, there is nothing irrational about atheism.

No problem. If Stephen Hawking is an Atheist, then his Atheism is irrational. He has no more evidence there is or is not a God than anyone else. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is pure belief and pure belief is irrational. I doubt he would argue otherwise.

spirituality, which I have no problem with, is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic.

Any position arrived at in the absence of evidence is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic. I have no problem with any of them.

no one has to prove a negative.

 

[jillian]

Atheist faith operates like a religion

You believe God does not exist on faith.

who says I don't believe in G-d? I simply know there is no need to prove a negative and if you believe in the EXISTENCE (not non-existence) of something without evidence, then that is faith-based. i'm not sure why that is confusing

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one is asking you to prove a negative, only that God does not exist.

I can prove there is no dog crap on my Condo foyer: see, the 'can't prove a negative' gets you only so far.

Believe in God, let others believe in God, and don't worry about it.

 

[PratchettFan]

Not more visible, just more. Atheists represent less than 3% of the adult population in the US, of course you are going to see less immoral Atheists, but not because they are any less immoral. It's because there are less of them. Atheists are human beings, just like any other human beings.

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?

as I said, i'm not an atheist. but I don't like religious zealots imposing themselves on others. I will, of course, concede there are losers in every group of people and good among every group of people.

but if you note, the premise of the o/p was that somehow "people" think atheists are evil. my response, again, is that atheists are only "evil" to the extremist religious right. most of us, as i'm sure you'll agree, view each other as individuals who fall and rise on our own merits.

Would you consider Atheists who do exactly what you are talking about to be religious zealots?

no. atheism is not a religion. it is an absence of religion. I would, however, consider them silly as what others believe, if they aren't hurting anyone else and don't want me to live by their religious credos, then as we say in Yiddish, "zai gezundt" (go in good health).

So they can act in exactly the same manner for exactly the same reasons, but it is different because Atheism is not a religion? Why? What is the difference between my thinking other people are evil because they don't believe what I believe and thinking people are stupid because they don't believe what I believe?

 

[PratchettFan]

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

be sure to tell steven hawkings that he's "irrational".

while i'm not an atheist, there is nothing irrational about atheism.

No problem. If Stephen Hawking is an Atheist, then his Atheism is irrational. He has no more evidence there is or is not a God than anyone else. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is pure belief and pure belief is irrational. I doubt he would argue otherwise.

spirituality, which I have no problem with, is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic.

Any position arrived at in the absence of evidence is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic. I have no problem with any of them.

no one has to prove a negative.

You do if one claims it to be true. Calling it a negative does not get you off the hook of backing up a claim. And it is quite easy to prove a negative. You just have to have the evidence. If you don't have the evidence, what you do is not make the claim or admit it is nothing but belief.

 

[sealybobo]

This is one way we know you guys are brainwashed and wrong about your god(s). You always say we are "hate filled" or "angry".

We are not. But we do sometimes wonder why you and your gods are. Can you answer that? For example, this high school girl atheist sued to have a plaque on the wall of her school taken down that read a prayer with the word god in it. She won and the town went fucking nuts! Why are they so angry and ignorant? Don't they realize this land is our land too? Don't they understand separation of church and state? Clearly they do not and clearly they are the angry ones.

I was talking about BB's incoherent rambling. I am not religious. Christianity, whether you like it or not, has a long track record and is historically part of the nation, and in a rather big way. Go to DC and look at the inscriptions on buildings, walls and plaques. Many court houses and public buildings, etc. I believe the Supremes have ruled on this.

No one is forcing those views on you. It isn't the establishment of a religion. If they forced you to pray or memorize bible verses you'd have a point. The town was probably outraged because a very small fraction of the population wants to dictate society for everyone else.

Sometimes the minority is right. It's why we aren't an actual democracy which is majority rules. We have a constitution that sometimes tells the majority they are wrong. Like gay marriage, abortion and this issue for 3.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Most people are functionally agnostic, by default. They don't concern themselves with existential questions.

I'm a Druid, raised in an atheist household, with Catholic and Freemason grandparents.

I have no interest in battles over semantics. For myself, the question is this; How does the atheist cosmology influence action in the world.

What is 'love'? Is it merely and completely an adaptive chemical response in the nervous system, the result of eons of random contingencies? The atheist is not a romantic, and that has real world consequences. Or, he suspends his true beliefs in order to indulge himself is the frivolities of romanticism.

If there is no invisible hand of destiny, or Providence to place one's trust in, how does that play out? Can the atheist stand aside and leave the future of the human race to a crap-shoot? 'Eugenics' is a bad word now, after the horrors of the 20th century. 'Bio-engineering' is less of a dirty word.

Politically speaking, the role of government must play a larger part for the atheist. Hobbes' Leviathan becomes more of a political beast. Once again, without Providence, and without vertical truth illuminating Man from a higher plane, good government is key. Social engineering is key. Our education system must indoctrinate the children on issues of morality and ethics rather than simply teaching reading, writing and math.

 

[jillian]

be sure to tell steven hawkings that he's "irrational".

while i'm not an atheist, there is nothing irrational about atheism.

No problem. If Stephen Hawking is an Atheist, then his Atheism is irrational. He has no more evidence there is or is not a God than anyone else. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is pure belief and pure belief is irrational. I doubt he would argue otherwise.

spirituality, which I have no problem with, is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic.

Any position arrived at in the absence of evidence is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic. I have no problem with any of them.

no one has to prove a negative.

You do if one claims it to be true. Calling it a negative does not get you off the hook of backing up a claim. And it is quite easy to prove a negative. You just have to have the evidence. If you don't have the evidence, what you do is not make the claim or admit it is nothing but belief.

not how it works. you don't need to prove a negative. nor can you. you are, however, required to prove an asserted fact. if you believe in something absent such proof, that is "faith".

 

[sealybobo]

The atheist is not a romantic, and that has real world consequences. Or, he suspends his true beliefs in order to indulge himself is the frivolities of romanticism.

Can the atheist stand aside and leave the future of the human race to a crap-shoot? 'Eugenics' is a bad word now, after the horrors of the 20th century. 'Bio-engineering' is less of a dirty word.

Politically speaking, the role of government must play a larger part for the atheist. Hobbes' Leviathan becomes more of a political beast. Once again, without Providence, and without vertical truth illuminating Man from a higher plane, good government is key. Social engineering is key. Our education system must indoctrinate the children on issues of morality and ethics rather than simply teaching reading, writing and math.

We aren't? Could have fooled every woman I've ever been with. We also feel love. So do dogs. Did you see the latest report on "Do Dogs Really Love Us?" Turns out they do. When you look them in the eyes the love pharamone goes off.

What beliefs do we have to "suspend" in order to "fake" love?

It isn't on God to save this planet. This is on us. Butt fucking isn't destroying the planet, man made global warming and plastic are. The future of the human race is on us not god.

You guys love big government more than we do. In fact if you could you'd impose your Christianity on us just like the Muslims force it on their citizens. And in your world, the line is blurred between government and religion. And then you would trust it more? Fool!

You wish our schools didn't teach morality and ethics? What a fool you must be. I went into this charter school where a bunch of poor kids go. Many of them don't have 2 parents teaching them right and wrong. So on the wall of the school read words like Honesty, Respect, Empathy, etc. You object to that? Well I object to all the lies your religion tells before it gets to the good stuff like love thy neighbor, feed the poor and heal the sick. Must be why you guys ignore that stuff.