Stigma of Atheism

[JakeStarkey]

There is no general stigma to atheism, only a sorrowfulness.

PLEASE don't feel sorry for us. We sometimes feel sorry for you because life is too short to be like you are. Sorry you are so miserable you need an imaginary friend to get you through this terrible life. Don't worry, one day heaven awaits. LOL

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

Exactly this type of post lead us to sorrow for you.

 

[sealybobo]

Has anyone's soul left their body and watched in the operating room? Nope. That was a dream. The mind playing tricks on you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Luddly, step off, son. We use our religious opinions as you do your ethical values to inform our opinions and thus actions in the public square. Each are equally valid.

If you are saying organized religion should not intrude into the public square, then I agree with you.

 

[Iceweasel]

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Huh? Are you drunk?

 

[jillian]

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Huh? Are you drunk?

no. I figure you're just cranky because your reading comprehension skills are awful

 

[sealybobo]

There is no general stigma to atheism, only a sorrowfulness.

PLEASE don't feel sorry for us. We sometimes feel sorry for you because life is too short to be like you are. Sorry you are so miserable you need an imaginary friend to get you through this terrible life. Don't worry, one day heaven awaits. LOL

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

Exactly this type of post lead us to sorrow for you.

Well we feel sorry for you Jake. I don't need a church to keep me grounded. Sure I bet you have fun talking with other members on Sunday and maybe it gives you something to do on Sundays, but i got plenty to do on Sundays PLUS I save 10% of my wages and you don't. At least not if you are giving what you should be giving, sucker.

I see religion does a lot of good for a lot of people who need it. I am actually happy for them/you Jake. But remember, it was you who needed something. It was you who admits before Jesus something was lacking in your life.

We all hear of the ex prostitute, murderer, drug dealer, addict, rapist, fornicator or adulterer who hit rock bottom and then found Jesus? I am happy they cleaned up their acts. And good for religion being there for them.

But why feel sorry for someone who doesn't need your church? You should be happy for us we are happy? But you can't believe anyone who's not a member of your cult could be happy, right? That's because you are so brainwashed its sick.

That's why I feel sorry for you. But I'm also happy for you if it makes you happy. Just don't try to push your medicine on the rest of us because we don't need it, YOU DO. We know it makes you happy. Keep taking it.

But don't feel sorry for us healthy people who don't need to take the medicine you need in order for you to get through life. Think about it.

 

[Iceweasel]

no. I figure you're just cranky because your reading comprehension skills are awful

I read just fine but don't live in your hate filled bubble universe so don't automatically know what the fuck you're babbling about.

 

[asterism]

There is no general stigma to atheism, only a sorrowfulness.

PLEASE don't feel sorry for us. We sometimes feel sorry for you because life is too short to be like you are. Sorry you are so miserable you need an imaginary friend to get you through this terrible life. Don't worry, one day heaven awaits. LOL

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

How can one be an atheist and believe that one has a soul?

There's the physical (body) and the thinking feeling part of us that we all call the "soul"

Incorporeal or uncarnate means without a physical body, presence or form.

The soul, in many religious, philosophical and mythological traditions, is

I think he was being philisophical.

Ask if what happens to his soul when he dies and I don't think he thinks it goes to heaven. That's just wishful thinking. Bible talk.

Atheists using religious imagery (like Ingersoll above) are amusing.

 

[sealybobo]

no. I figure you're just cranky because your reading comprehension skills are awful

I read just fine but don't live in your hate filled bubble universe so don't automatically know what the fuck you're babbling about.

This is one way we know you guys are brainwashed and wrong about your god(s). You always say we are "hate filled" or "angry".

We are not. But we do sometimes wonder why you and your gods are. Can you answer that? For example, this high school girl atheist sued to have a plaque on the wall of her school taken down that read a prayer with the word god in it. She won and the town went fucking nuts! Why are they so angry and ignorant? Don't they realize this land is our land too? Don't they understand separation of church and state? Clearly they do not and clearly they are the angry ones.

That girl wasn't angry. She was just right. But you theists would have strung her up if you could have gotten away with it. You aren't that different from your Salem Witch Trial ancestors.

 

[sealybobo]

There is no general stigma to atheism, only a sorrowfulness.

PLEASE don't feel sorry for us. We sometimes feel sorry for you because life is too short to be like you are. Sorry you are so miserable you need an imaginary friend to get you through this terrible life. Don't worry, one day heaven awaits. LOL

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

How can one be an atheist and believe that one has a soul?

There's the physical (body) and the thinking feeling part of us that we all call the "soul"

Incorporeal or uncarnate means without a physical body, presence or form.

The soul, in many religious, philosophical and mythological traditions, is

I think he was being philisophical.

Ask if what happens to his soul when he dies and I don't think he thinks it goes to heaven. That's just wishful thinking. Bible talk.

Atheists using religious imagery (like Ingersoll above) are amusing.

Lets not get into a long discussion about the soul because like every other argument you guys have for god(s) whatever your soul is does not prove a god exists let alone any particular god.

 

[Iceweasel]

This is one way we know you guys are brainwashed and wrong about your god(s). You always say we are "hate filled" or "angry".

We are not. But we do sometimes wonder why you and your gods are. Can you answer that? For example, this high school girl atheist sued to have a plaque on the wall of her school taken down that read a prayer with the word god in it. She won and the town went fucking nuts! Why are they so angry and ignorant? Don't they realize this land is our land too? Don't they understand separation of church and state? Clearly they do not and clearly they are the angry ones.

I was talking about BB's incoherent rambling. I am not religious. Christianity, whether you like it or not, has a long track record and is historically part of the nation, and in a rather big way. Go to DC and look at the inscriptions on buildings, walls and plaques. Many court houses and public buildings, etc. I believe the Supremes have ruled on this.

No one is forcing those views on you. It isn't the establishment of a religion. If they forced you to pray or memorize bible verses you'd have a point. The town was probably outraged because a very small fraction of the population wants to dictate society for everyone else.

 

[JakeStarkey]

[Well we feel sorry for you Jake.

'We'?



Got a squirrel in your pocket?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Let's not get into an argument about souls not existing because you cannot prove it.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The stigma is real. The Elks are kind of a big deal in my community, but, one must swear that he believes in god in order to get in, In spite of the fact that it is by no means a religious organization. When I "came out" a few years back and openly announced that I was an atheist, several of my in-laws stopped speaking to me. It even played a part in my wife's decision to get a divorce. As a single man, it became quite obvious, very quickly, that one should not admit that one is an atheist on a first date.

At first, I viewed these things as negatives. However, over a few years time, I realized that I do not miss the society of god fearing bigots that shun non-believers. In fact, I have found that the friends I have now are much more to my taste than those who only tolerate fellow believers. If I had done this as a younger man, while still in my career, it could have had a very negative impact on my life. As a retiree, it has had a positive impact. The bottom line is that I no longer have to go through the motions of playing the games that believers insist upon, and most of their friends go along with, even though they really don't know if religion is real or not.

 

[PratchettFan]

Not THIS again.

How about you go read the dozens of other threads that started with the same bull-oney?

And then say why it is that you so-called christians are always about putting people down, name calling, nastiness and lies?

As long as you're not trying to shove them down my throat, you're more than welcome to your beliefs. Why won't you extend that same courtesy to others?

MYOB.

because hyper religious zealots hate people who don't agree with their narrow world view and pretend what they think is legitimate.

to the o/p.... no... no one thinks atheists are evil except for the rabid religious right. most people judge the person.

personally, I see a lot more immoral so-called religious types than I do immoral atheists.

Of course. There are more religious types than there are Atheists. I'm sure you see a lot more religious types wearing t-shirts than Atheists, that doesn't mean they don't wear them.

if you mean religious types are more visible... yes, they are, because they insist on imposing their beliefs on people. are there *more* religious types? In this country? yes. but that doesn't negate the stupidity of thinking someone who doesn't worship as you do is inherently evil.

nor does it change the fact that I see far more of what I would consider "immorality" from the hyper religious.

but then again, I suppose that depends on what one finds immoral.

Not more visible, just more. Atheists represent less than 3% of the adult population in the US, of course you are going to see less immoral Atheists, but not because they are any less immoral. It's because there are less of them. Atheists are human beings, just like any other human beings.

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

 

[Truman123]

I've always taken the same view on religion that my dad has on smoking.

You can do it but it makes you look stupid.

 

[PratchettFan]

Even today, however, the self-proclaimed atheist incurs a stigma of being evil, a heretic who deserve to be a pariah in a society that ostensibly adulates freedom of speech, thought, and religion.

you forgot "irrational"......that's the primary characteristic of atheists......

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

be sure to tell steven hawkings that he's "irrational".

while i'm not an atheist, there is nothing irrational about atheism.

No problem. If Stephen Hawking is an Atheist, then his Atheism is irrational. He has no more evidence there is or is not a God than anyone else. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is pure belief and pure belief is irrational. I doubt he would argue otherwise.

 

[PratchettFan]

Discussion of atheism was known in classical antiquity [eg, Cicero, De Natura Deorum] and permeated philosophy in the Age of Enlightenment. Mark Twain gave a humorous but contemptuous view of Christianity in his ''Letters from the Earth,'' as did Robert Ingersoll in his various writings. The numerous arguments generally fall under three rubrics-

[1] lack of empirical evidence of a god,
[2] existence of evil, and
[3] multiple religions with conflicting dogmas.

Even today, however, the self-proclaimed atheist incurs a stigma of being evil, a heretic who deserve to be a pariah in a society that ostensibly adulates freedom of speech, thought, and religion.

I invite discussion of your opinion or experiences on this rather atavistic stigma associated with atheism.

Most atheists that advocate in favor of their beliefs are assholes to anyone that disagrees with them. That small but very vocal minority completely drowns out the rational atheists who are respectful and simply disagree.

That has been my experience.

 

[jillian]

because hyper religious zealots hate people who don't agree with their narrow world view and pretend what they think is legitimate.

to the o/p.... no... no one thinks atheists are evil except for the rabid religious right. most people judge the person.

personally, I see a lot more immoral so-called religious types than I do immoral atheists.

Of course. There are more religious types than there are Atheists. I'm sure you see a lot more religious types wearing t-shirts than Atheists, that doesn't mean they don't wear them.

if you mean religious types are more visible... yes, they are, because they insist on imposing their beliefs on people. are there *more* religious types? In this country? yes. but that doesn't negate the stupidity of thinking someone who doesn't worship as you do is inherently evil.

nor does it change the fact that I see far more of what I would consider "immorality" from the hyper religious.

but then again, I suppose that depends on what one finds immoral.

Not more visible, just more. Atheists represent less than 3% of the adult population in the US, of course you are going to see less immoral Atheists, but not because they are any less immoral. It's because there are less of them. Atheists are human beings, just like any other human beings.

or maybe it's because you don't hear about atheists trying to take food away from children or fighting to pass laws that discriminate against our citizenry....

Sure you do. You're just not paying attention. There is a town near me that allows holiday displays in a local park. They don't discriminate, they allow for so many displays and they assign them on a first come, first serve basis. A local Atheist group got together and swarmed the city with requests, ending up with 8 of the 10 slots. I believe the same thing happened in Santa Monica, Ca. Because they needed those for their holiday message? No, to prevent others from expressing their's.

So don't tell me about morality. You don't lack your share of assholes.

and that's the same as taking rightwing positions that deny SNAP to hungry children? or support the murder of doctors?

as I said, i'm not an atheist. but I don't like religious zealots imposing themselves on others. I will, of course, concede there are losers in every group of people and good among every group of people.

but if you note, the premise of the o/p was that somehow "people" think atheists are evil. my response, again, is that atheists are only "evil" to the extremist religious right. most of us, as i'm sure you'll agree, view each other as individuals who fall and rise on our own merits.

 

[jillian]

Even today, however, the self-proclaimed atheist incurs a stigma of being evil, a heretic who deserve to be a pariah in a society that ostensibly adulates freedom of speech, thought, and religion.

you forgot "irrational"......that's the primary characteristic of atheists......

Atheism is irrational only to the extent it is based upon belief. It is no more irrational than Theism.

be sure to tell steven hawkings that he's "irrational".

while i'm not an atheist, there is nothing irrational about atheism.

No problem. If Stephen Hawking is an Atheist, then his Atheism is irrational. He has no more evidence there is or is not a God than anyone else. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is pure belief and pure belief is irrational. I doubt he would argue otherwise.

spirituality, which I have no problem with, is faith-based and has nothing to do with logic.