Let's talk about the oft repeated phrase "a threat to democracy" we believe trump presents.

[berg80]

That is a question about your source? The Washington Post?

But there is no question about the accuracy of what I pasted.

 

[berg80]

Jack smith isn’t a legal opinion

The indictment is a recitation of the charges and the facts supporting them.

 

[Billiejeens]

But there is no question about the accuracy of what I pasted.

True
You accurately posted the misinformation that the Washington Post told you to.

 

[berg80]

Great. Start a thread on it. I don't think we need to derail this one.

They do.

 

[Robert W]

But there is no question about the accuracy of what I pasted.

People don't listen to you. They do listen to the Washington Post a hell of a lot.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You lost me at "Project 2025".


Poor Stalinberg80. Another day, another stage four TDS thread of GASLIGHT and PROJECTION without an OUNCE of self-awareness to recognize the absurdity.

Okay.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We spend so much time talking past each other I thought it might be useful to be more exacting in reference to what is meant by that phrase. It is most frequently used in the context of what another trump presidency may bring. Based in part on certain remarks he's made about retribution against his perceived enemies. And on the disavowed document, Project 2025, laying out a blueprint for what another term portends.

The thing is, we don't have to speculate about whether a threat will materialize..........it already has. I should say at this point I'm reluctant to illustrate what I mean because I know what kind of reaction it will elicit. But the point of the post is to be specific, not vague, so here goes.

On 4 January, the conservative lawyer John Eastman was summoned to the Oval Office to meet Donald Trump and Vice-President Mike Pence. Within 48 hours, Joe Biden’s victory in the 2020 presidential election would formally be certified by Congress, sealing Trump’s fate and removing him from the White House.
Tucker Carlson condemned over ‘false flag’ claim about deadly Capitol attack
The atmosphere in the room was tense. The then US president was “fired up” to make what amounted to a last-ditch effort to overturn the election results and snatch a second term in office in the most powerful job on Earth.

Eastman, who had a decades-long reputation as a prominent conservative law professor, had already prepared a two-page memo in which he had outlined an incendiary scenario under which Pence, presiding over the joint session of Congress that was to be convened on 6 January, effectively overrides the votes of millions of Americans in seven states that Biden had won, then “gavels President Trump as re-elected”.

The Eastman memo, first revealed by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa in their book Peril, goes on to predict “howls” of protest from Democrats. The theory was that Pence, acting as the “ultimate arbiter” of the process, would then send the matter to the House of Representatives which, following an arcane rule that says that where no candidate has reached the necessary majority each state will have one vote, also decides to turn the world upside down and hand the election to the losing candidate, Donald Trump.

‘A roadmap for a coup’: inside Trump’s plot to steal the presidency

A startling memo, a surreal Oval Office encounter – just some of the twists in the unfolding story of Trump’s bid to cling to power, which critics say was no less than an attempted coup

www.theguardian.com

Here's a link to the Eastman memo. https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf

I'm hoping not to get bogged down by folks who will not accept this meeting actually did take place. If you can't accept that it did this would be a good jumping off point for you.

Moving on, we come to the matter of Jeffrey Clark. You may or may not recall trump wanted to name him acting AG in order to use the influence of the DoJ to pursue baseless claims of massive voter fraud, specifically in GA. When some of the top DoJ officials heard of trump's desire they threatened to quit en masse if he promoted Clark.

Read the Unsent Letter by Jeffrey Clark to Georgia Officials​

Jeffrey Clark, a former Justice Department official who worked closely with President Donald J. Trump and his allies to undo the election, wanted to send a letter to state officials in Georgia that falsely claimed that the Justice Department had “identified significant concerns” that would affect the state’s election results.

Read the Unsent Letter by Jeffrey Clark to Georgia Officials (Published 2022)

Jeffrey Clark, a former Justice Department official who worked closely with President Donald J. Trump and his allies to undo the election, wanted to send a letter to state officials in Georgia that falsely claimed that the Justice Department had “identified significant concerns” that would...

www.nytimes.com

Former DOJ officials detail threatening to resign en masse in meeting with Trump​

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/23/1107217243/former-doj-officials-detail-threatening-resign-en-masse-trump-meeting

Finally, we come to trump's participation in the fake elector scheme.

Comprehensive Timeline on False Electors Scheme in 2020 Presidential Election​

Comprehensive Timeline on False Electors Scheme in 2020 Presidential Election

The most comprehensive factual record of former President Donald Trump and his close associates coordination of the false electors scheme.

www.justsecurity.org

Overwhelming documentary and testimonial evidence proves beyond any doubt these things I've outlined happened. All of which with one goal in mind. To create a scenario leading to trump remaining in power.

I do not pretend to speak for anyone but myself when I say this is what is meant when I contend trump is a threat to democracy. He has already threatened it. There is every reason to believe he will threaten it again. Especially after the recent rulings of his SCOTUS.

Ultimately, I'm asking trump supporters to examine the record I've laid out. The demonstrable evidence shows trump and his cohorts tried to change the outcome of a presidential election. I can think of few greater threats to democracy than that. They say past is prologue, hence my (our) concern.

thank you

great post

 

[Billiejeens]

They do.

Lies derailed it.
Your lack of credibility derails all your threads.

 

[berg80]

My question was completely on topic. You lied to get out of answering my on-topic question. I called you on your lie about my on-topic question.

Clearly your personal definition of “retribution” includes a caveat that it “does not apply when Democrats do it.”

Enforcing the rule of law is not retribution.

 

[Robert W]

The indictment is a recitation of the charges and the facts supporting them.

Explain why Biden was not indicted yet for the same thing Trump was?

 

[Billiejeens]

Enforcing the rule of law is not retribution.

Remember that.

 

[berg80]

thank you

great post

Thanks.

 

[Robert W]

thank you

great post

Project 2025 has not been accepted by the Congress. It is just a list of ideas.

 

[berg80]

Explain why Biden was not indicted yet for the same thing Trump was?

Biden and Trump: How the two classified documents investigations came to different endings

The special counsel who concluded that criminal charges were not warranted against President Joe Biden over his handling of classified information says there are “clear” differences from Donald Trump's case.

apnews.com

Please don't go off topic.

 

[Robert W]

Biden and Trump: How the two classified documents investigations came to different endings

The special counsel who concluded that criminal charges were not warranted against President Joe Biden over his handling of classified information says there are “clear” differences from Donald Trump's case.

apnews.com

Please don't go off topic.

You replied so of course that makes it on topic.

 

[Marener]

Explain why Biden was not indicted yet for the same thing Trump was?

For starters, Biden cannot be indicted until he has left office. Furthermore, Trump's offenses go well beyond anything that anyone could accuse Biden of having done based on any of the known facts. Trump was indicted not only for retaining classified documents but for obstructing justice and tampering with witnesses.

 

[Robert W]

Biden and Trump: How the two classified documents investigations came to different endings

The special counsel who concluded that criminal charges were not warranted against President Joe Biden over his handling of classified information says there are “clear” differences from Donald Trump's case.

apnews.com

Please don't go off topic.

The AP you passed here is off topic.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Enforcing the rule of law is not retribution.

But, but, but...

All citizens are equal, but some citizens are more equal than others.

 

[berg80]

People don't listen to you. They do listen to the Washington Post a hell of a lot.

Someone please explain to me how this doesn't threaten democracy.

A part of former President Donald Trump’s effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election involved an effort to misuse the Electoral College in seven battleground states. On Dec. 14, 2020, legitimate members of the Electoral College met across the country to sign certificates declaring which presidential candidate won their state. That day, in several states that Biden had won, Republicans met to sign certificates declaring that they were the “duly elected and qualified” members of the Electoral College and falsely declaring Trump the winner of their state. They sent their documents to the National Archives.

In the runup to Jan. 6, 2021, these false certificates were used in an effort to claim that Vice President Mike Pence could decide either not to recognize any electors from these “disputed states” (meaning an outright Trump win) or else delay the certification of the election.

These actions, and the alleged conspiracy that gave rise to them, have been the subject of multiple criminal indictments. The scheme is included among the conduct charged in the federal indictment against former President Donald Trump by the Department of Justice’s Office of Special Counsel. False electors in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and Nevada also face criminal charges. In Wisconsin, the false electors and two attorneys who aided and abetted them settled civil litigation arising from their actions, and a criminal investigation in Wisconsin is reportedly ongoing.

 

[Robert W]

For starters, Biden cannot be indicted until he has left office. Furthermore, Trump's offenses go well beyond anything that anyone could accuse Biden of having done based on any of the known facts. Trump was indicted not only for retaining classified documents but for obstructing justice and tampering with witnesses.

Case against Trump dismissed.