Strange BedFellows.. Israel as a Security Partner.

[flacaltenn]

I'm posting this here because I've been saying for a year now, that the key to Pali/Israeli cooperation is the realization that they NEED a joint security agreement. Mostly when I say this in person, I've gotten blank stares because its so far from what folks know about the impossible Pali/Israel Peace process. But real agreements are made upon incentives. And right now --- with the map of the Middle East being redrawn --- there are MANY incentives to talk with some of your "enemies" in order to keep your sovereignty.

Israelis and Saudis Reveal Secret Talks to Thwart Iran - Bloomberg View


Since the beginning of 2014, representatives from Israel and Saudi Arabia have had five secret meetings to discuss a common foe, Iran. On Thursday, the two countries came out of the closet by revealing this covert diplomacy at the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington.

It was not a typical Washington think-tank event. No questions were taken from the audience. After an introduction, there was a speech in Arabic from Anwar Majed Eshki, a retired Saudi general and ex-adviser to Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the former Saudi ambassador to the U.S. Then Dore Gold, a former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations who is slotted to be the next director general of Israel's foreign ministry, gave a speech in English.

Eshki was particularly alarming. He laid out a brief history of Iran since the 1979 revolution, highlighting the regime's acts of terrorism, hostage-taking and aggression. He ended his remarks with a seven-point plan for the Middle East. Atop the list was achieving peace between Israel and the Arabs. Second came regime-change in Iran. Also on the list were greater Arab unity, the establishment of an Arab regional military force, and a call for an independent Kurdistan to be made up of territory now belonging to Iraq, Turkey and Iran.

Didja get that last part? The map of the Middle East is about to be redrawn. The existence of a Palestinian state COULD be part of that. But no Palestinian state is gonna emerge UNLESS it can survive. Elsewhere we hear reports of clashes between ISIS and Hamas in Gaza. Is the Palestinian Auth smart enough to recognize that they need to do what Saudi has just done? And start planning WITH Israel for survival?

 

[flacaltenn]

Actually -- there is already a "joint security agreement" between the PA and Israel. If it wasn't for the border embargoes and patrols of the coast off Gaza, ISIS or other radicals WOULD be able to take the Gaza strip in an afternoon cruise..

 

[Daniyel]

Actually -- there is already a "joint security agreement" between the PA and Israel. If it wasn't for the border embargoes and patrols of the coast off Gaza, ISIS or other radicals WOULD be able to take the Gaza strip in an afternoon cruise..

Correct, as much for the WB withe support from the local Palestinians or without this pose a huge threat for us both.
I didn't hear much lately about the IS progress in Jordan but I believe it is only a matter of time, the "Levant" in ISIL is basically Israel and it's surrounding.

 

[Challenger]

So what "incentive" is there for the Palestinians to replace one colonial regime bolstered by the West, with another bolstered by two of the most repressive and brutal regimes (Israel and Saudi Arabia) to exist since the second world war? They may just as well continue to, "die on their feet, rather than live on their knees."

 

[Challenger]

Actually -- there is already a "joint security agreement" between the PA and Israel. If it wasn't for the border embargoes and patrols of the coast off Gaza, ISIS or other radicals WOULD be able to take the Gaza strip in an afternoon cruise..

Correct, as much for the WB withe support from the local Palestinians or without this pose a huge threat for us both.
I didn't hear much lately about the IS progress in Jordan but I believe it is only a matter of time, the "Levant" in ISIL is basically Israel and it's surrounding.

Don't worry, IS/ISIL is backed and bankrolled by your new Saudi friends, you'll be fine....until they throw you under the bus.

 

[Phoenall]

So what "incentive" is there for the Palestinians to replace one colonial regime bolstered by the West, with another bolstered by two of the most repressive and brutal regimes (Israel and Saudi Arabia) to exist since the second world war? They may just as well continue to, "die on their feet, rather than live on their knees."

charity handouts to swell their swiss bank accounts

 

[flacaltenn]

So what "incentive" is there for the Palestinians to replace one colonial regime bolstered by the West, with another bolstered by two of the most repressive and brutal regimes (Israel and Saudi Arabia) to exist since the second world war? They may just as well continue to, "die on their feet, rather than live on their knees."

This incentive would be to survive. Not just survive, but THRIVE.
A joint security agreement does not make one a colony. And YOU in particular would be marginalized and out of a hobby should this ever happen and there actually WAS a thriving Palestine.

Jordan is not waiting to include Israel in a mutual defense strategy. I am virtually certain of that. It just remains to be publicaly announced as Saudi has done.

Which brings us to the Saudis. The past decades of proxy wars is about to end. There will soon be more strategic alliances. Due largely to the USA helping to make vacuums in the power structure of the M.E with piss poor policy decisions. All your heroes like Hesbollah and Hamas and the Saudi proxies are likely to become roadkill in the hot wars to contain the damage.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan take a renewed interest in "vouching" for the security of their West Bank. And returning stable govt to the area. Allowing a real Peace Process to commence.. The REQUIRED detent and mutual interests of Israel and Jordan would override the chaos which is the PA.

 

[Phoenall]

So what "incentive" is there for the Palestinians to replace one colonial regime bolstered by the West, with another bolstered by two of the most repressive and brutal regimes (Israel and Saudi Arabia) to exist since the second world war? They may just as well continue to, "die on their feet, rather than live on their knees."

This incentive would be to survive. Not just survive, but THRIVE.
A joint security agreement does not make one a colony. And YOU in particular would be marginalized and out of a hobby should this ever happen and there actually WAS a thriving Palestine.

Jordan is not waiting to include Israel in a mutual defense strategy. I am virtually certain of that. It just remains to be publicaly announced as Saudi has done.

Which brings us to the Saudis. The past decades of proxy wars is about to end. There will soon be more strategic alliances. Due largely to the USA helping to make vacuums in the power structure of the M.E with piss poor policy decisions. All your heroes like Hesbollah and Hamas and the Saudi proxies are likely to become roadkill in the hot wars to contain the damage.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan take a renewed interest in "vouching" for the security of their West Bank. And returning stable govt to the area. Allowing a real Peace Process to commence.. The REQUIRED detent and mutual interests of Israel and Jordan would override the chaos which is the PA.

I do believe that Jordan has already done so when it arranged for Israel to patrol the Jordan valley while they looked to their Northern borders

 

[Challenger]

So what "incentive" is there for the Palestinians to replace one colonial regime bolstered by the West, with another bolstered by two of the most repressive and brutal regimes (Israel and Saudi Arabia) to exist since the second world war? They may just as well continue to, "die on their feet, rather than live on their knees."

This incentive would be to survive. Not just survive, but THRIVE.
A joint security agreement does not make one a colony. And YOU in particular would be marginalized and out of a hobby should this ever happen and there actually WAS a thriving Palestine.

Jordan is not waiting to include Israel in a mutual defense strategy. I am virtually certain of that. It just remains to be publicaly announced as Saudi has done.

Which brings us to the Saudis. The past decades of proxy wars is about to end. There will soon be more strategic alliances. Due largely to the USA helping to make vacuums in the power structure of the M.E with piss poor policy decisions. All your heroes like Hesbollah and Hamas and the Saudi proxies are likely to become roadkill in the hot wars to contain the damage.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan take a renewed interest in "vouching" for the security of their West Bank. And returning stable govt to the area. Allowing a real Peace Process to commence.. The REQUIRED detent and mutual interests of Israel and Jordan would override the chaos which is the PA.

On the contrary, I would welcome a thriving Palestine, free of Zionism, where Jewish and Muslim people could live side by side in freedom and security and nothing would give me greater pleasure than to "give up my hobby" as you so condescendingly put it. You are imputing motives that I doubt you are competent to judge.

I agree with you however, that the USA has created this mess and has at the very least, a moral responsibility to clean it up and provide justice for the victims.

 

[flacaltenn]

So what "incentive" is there for the Palestinians to replace one colonial regime bolstered by the West, with another bolstered by two of the most repressive and brutal regimes (Israel and Saudi Arabia) to exist since the second world war? They may just as well continue to, "die on their feet, rather than live on their knees."

This incentive would be to survive. Not just survive, but THRIVE.
A joint security agreement does not make one a colony. And YOU in particular would be marginalized and out of a hobby should this ever happen and there actually WAS a thriving Palestine.

Jordan is not waiting to include Israel in a mutual defense strategy. I am virtually certain of that. It just remains to be publicaly announced as Saudi has done.

Which brings us to the Saudis. The past decades of proxy wars is about to end. There will soon be more strategic alliances. Due largely to the USA helping to make vacuums in the power structure of the M.E with piss poor policy decisions. All your heroes like Hesbollah and Hamas and the Saudi proxies are likely to become roadkill in the hot wars to contain the damage.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan take a renewed interest in "vouching" for the security of their West Bank. And returning stable govt to the area. Allowing a real Peace Process to commence.. The REQUIRED detent and mutual interests of Israel and Jordan would override the chaos which is the PA.

On the contrary, I would welcome a thriving Palestine, free of Zionism, where Jewish and Muslim people could live side by side in freedom and security and nothing would give me greater pleasure than to "give up my hobby" as you so condescendingly put it. You are imputing motives that I doubt you are competent to judge.

I agree with you however, that the USA has created this mess and has at the very least, a moral responsibility to clean it up and provide justice for the victims.

The "clean-up" of our mess involves creating new functional govts out of the chaos. "WE" don't really have a role in that. Other than having the intelligence and the proper State Dept role to vet the contestants. OUR view of how Arab states need to be governed is irrelevant.

Israel will be free of Zionism about the time that Palestinians are free of Palionism.. You should hold your breath..

The shift from proxy conflict to hot war is imminent. And the proxies are gonna be so much road kill in the process. YOU are gonna have to have a scorecard and the official gameday program to follow your "anti-zionist" fantasy team..