Study: All Employment Growth Since 2000 Went to Immigrants

[Freewill]

Why are American companies hiring undocumented workers instead of Americans?

Is it because they pay immigrants less so that the company can profit more?

Of course as you would too. THAT is the problem that is hurting the middle class. Why the left hates corporations yet wish to help them out with labor on the cheap, that does hurt people is any one's guess.

I started another thread asking for why folks support immigration with open borders if you are one of them would you respond? Thanks.

Why is hiring illegal labor hurting the middle class? That makes no sense. The opposite is the case.

Ok, the middle class pays taxes, taxes pay for the benefits that the illegal immigrant receive. Rich people have lots of money it doesn't hurt them. The poor are living off the dole any way so they are immune. But the middle class pays as always. Besides the wage suppression caused by cheap labor.

That said, you are making some bold statements. Tell me how illegal immigration helps the middle class especially considering the 7 percent unemployment and the rise in disability claims and a drop in the job participation rate. You can't ignore those facts and just say they don't hurt the middle class.

 

[The Rabbi]

You can't have it both ways. Do we just let people starve? What if there are no jobs for these low educated low skilled workers? YOU say they will just go home. Is that reality? Can they "just go home?"

I think, this is my opinion, what you want to say is that we could open our border so people could freely come and go. They would come when their is work and not when there isn't. I think I could live with that, some sort of guest worker visa. But what we are doing now is just damn crazy and I don't see "guest worker" as a compromise being offered by anyone. It is either all or nothing that I see.

What we need is the following:
A biometric ID card that allows the holder to work anywhere in the U.S. All taxes will be collected from his paycheck. If he ends up qualifying for citizenship he gets to claim his SS contributions etc. If not, he doesnt.
The ID also serces as a laissez-passer, allowing him to pass freely over whatever border he came in on. So if he came over from Mexico, he can go back to Mexico, but not to Canada. And vice versa.
The ID should be inexpensive to get and obtainable within 7 working days.
That will solve virtually all the problems. When we made border crossings hard it meant crossing illegally was so difficult people would bring their families rather than just going back when work was done.

That might work but we did have a system like that called a VISA and no one seems to care so they truck across the border in droves, nothing says that they will bother with a new id, until we secure the border.

The visa system is the problem. What I propose is nothing like that. Visas are expensive and difficult to get. That is why people choose the illegal path. If we made it easier to cross legally, and could track them, we would virtually eliminate the immigration problem.

 

[Ravi]

My kids got jobs. They aren't immigrants.

Thread fail.

because you represent everybody

idiots and hypocrites

Read the title, buttwipe. All is untrue.

 

[The Rabbi]

Of course as you would too. THAT is the problem that is hurting the middle class. Why the left hates corporations yet wish to help them out with labor on the cheap, that does hurt people is any one's guess.

I started another thread asking for why folks support immigration with open borders if you are one of them would you respond? Thanks.

Why is hiring illegal labor hurting the middle class? That makes no sense. The opposite is the case.

Ok, the middle class pays taxes, taxes pay for the benefits that the illegal immigrant receive. Rich people have lots of money it doesn't hurt them. The poor are living off the dole any way so they are immune. But the middle class pays as always. Besides the wage suppression caused by cheap labor.

That said, you are making some bold statements. Tell me how illegal immigration helps the middle class especially considering the 7 percent unemployment and the rise in disability claims and a drop in the job participation rate. You can't ignore those facts and just say they don't hurt the middle class.

7% unemployment and low workforce participation are not due to immigration.
Lower priced labor helps people who use it for, e.g. home renovations, landscaping etc. Those are middle class people. The taxes you talk about are not due to illegals. If you eliminated all illegals taking public dollars you would not change the spending done on such programs more than maybe 1%.

 

[Moonglow]

The immigrants are not stealing the jobs, the assholes are hiring them because they claim white folks won't work...

White folks? Racism much?

I guess, I didn't like hearing it as I lost jobs to illegals..that I wanted as a contractor..

 

[KNB]

Why are American companies hiring undocumented workers instead of Americans?

Is it because they pay immigrants less so that the company can profit more?

Of course as you would too. THAT is the problem that is hurting the middle class. Why the left hates corporations yet wish to help them out with labor on the cheap, that does hurt people is any one's guess.

That doesn't make any fucking sense. The United States of America is the richest nation in the history of the world. Corporations CAN afford to pay workers more, both citizens and non-citizens alike, but they don't because that means fewer profits for the companies.

"Of course you would pay immigrants less than an American." No, Republican, I would legalize marijuana and make both the US and Mexico more independent from one another, raising the standard of living for the working poor in both countries, and cripple the international money class that controls this current system of exploiting cheap labor to maximize private profits.

I started this thread asking for why folks support immigration with open borders if you are one of them would you respond? Thanks.

I support immigration with open borders because that is what the fuck the United States of America is all about. "Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddles masses yearning to breathe free." Remember any of that? Remember all of that "We're #1!" bullshit that Americans keep chanting? So all you want to do is to chant "We're #1" to the rest of the world and then not let them come here? Like a spoiled rich teenager, you want what you want and fuck everyone else, is that it?

If you oppose immigration then you need to start a petition to dismantle the Statue of Liberty.

 

[Freewill]

What we need is the following:
A biometric ID card that allows the holder to work anywhere in the U.S. All taxes will be collected from his paycheck. If he ends up qualifying for citizenship he gets to claim his SS contributions etc. If not, he doesnt.
The ID also serces as a laissez-passer, allowing him to pass freely over whatever border he came in on. So if he came over from Mexico, he can go back to Mexico, but not to Canada. And vice versa.
The ID should be inexpensive to get and obtainable within 7 working days.
That will solve virtually all the problems. When we made border crossings hard it meant crossing illegally was so difficult people would bring their families rather than just going back when work was done.

That might work but we did have a system like that called a VISA and no one seems to care so they truck across the border in droves, nothing says that they will bother with a new id, until we secure the border.

The visa system is the problem. What I propose is nothing like that. Visas are expensive and difficult to get. That is why people choose the illegal path. If we made it easier to cross legally, and could track them, we would virtually eliminate the immigration problem.

If easy to cross then what would stop those we don't want into the country? Those are the people who are the problem. Look at the border today and the flood of minors. Are they going to be a drain on the economy or are they going to help the economy? I feel for these people that were born in a country as screwed up as Mexico apparently is but how much should we have to pay because Mexico can't get it stuff together even with all the resources available.

 

[TimeForChange]

we have never been about open borders you dolt


but if we were; isnt it nice to see you idiots who think you're the future living in the past?

 

[TimeForChange]

My kids got jobs. They aren't immigrants.

Thread fail.

because you represent everybody

idiots and hypocrites

Read the title, buttwipe. All is untrue.

you're just enough of an idiot to take it literally

moron

 

[The Rabbi]

That might work but we did have a system like that called a VISA and no one seems to care so they truck across the border in droves, nothing says that they will bother with a new id, until we secure the border.

The visa system is the problem. What I propose is nothing like that. Visas are expensive and difficult to get. That is why people choose the illegal path. If we made it easier to cross legally, and could track them, we would virtually eliminate the immigration problem.

If easy to cross then what would stop those we don't want into the country? Those are the people who are the problem. Look at the border today and the flood of minors. Are they going to be a drain on the economy or are they going to help the economy? I feel for these people that were born in a country as screwed up as Mexico apparently is but how much should we have to pay because Mexico can't get it stuff together even with all the resources available.

People who dont want to go through the visa system should be considered criminals and treated accordingly. No employer is going to hire an illegal when he can get a documented worker at least as easily.

 

[Freewill]

why are american companies hiring undocumented workers instead of americans?

Is it because they pay immigrants less so that the company can profit more?

of course as you would too. That is the problem that is hurting the middle class. Why the left hates corporations yet wish to help them out with labor on the cheap, that does hurt people is any one's guess.

that doesn't make any fucking sense. The united states of america is the richest nation in the history of the world. Corporations can afford to pay workers more, both citizens and non-citizens alike, but they don't because that means fewer profits for the companies.

Just as you would. If you had a house and you wanted to put a roof on the house and there were two bids. One bid was from a company that employed us citizens and paid all the money associated with that employment. The other employed cheap immigrants that worked for half as much. You can get the same roof but with the one company pay much less, who would you pick?

"of course you would pay immigrants less than an american." no, republican, i would legalize marijuana and make both the us and mexico more independent from one another, raising the standard of living for the working poor in both countries, and cripple the international money class that controls this current system of exploiting cheap labor to maximize private profits.

Yeah drugs are the answer, keep the stupid masses high and they won't know what is being done to them as long as their drugs are cheap.

i started this thread asking for why folks support immigration with open borders if you are one of them would you respond? Thanks.

i support immigration with open borders because that is what the fuck the united states of america is all about. "bring me your tired, your poor, your huddles masses yearning to breathe free." remember any of that? Remember all of that "we're #1!" bullshit that americans keep chanting? So all you want to do is to chant "we're #1" to the rest of the world and then not let them come here? Like a spoiled rich teenager, you want what you want and fuck everyone else, is that it?

If you oppose immigration then you need to start a petition to dismantle the statue of liberty.

no, we don't need to change much of anything. The immigration laws passed in this country were enforced until recently. What you need do is go to ellis island and see what immigrants had to go through to enter the country from europe. (they had to learn english for one thing)

now immigration for europe is just as hard yet all one needs to be able to do on our southern border is swim the rio grande.

But you do make a point, i like my tomatoes on the cheap so cheap labor is important.

 

[The Rabbi]

That's a completely made up version of immigration. No one had to learn English. My great grandfather couldnt speak English beyond a few words and he lived here for over 50 years. There were plenty of Chinese immigrants who were illegals.

 

[Freewill]

Why is hiring illegal labor hurting the middle class? That makes no sense. The opposite is the case.

Ok, the middle class pays taxes, taxes pay for the benefits that the illegal immigrant receive. Rich people have lots of money it doesn't hurt them. The poor are living off the dole any way so they are immune. But the middle class pays as always. Besides the wage suppression caused by cheap labor.

That said, you are making some bold statements. Tell me how illegal immigration helps the middle class especially considering the 7 percent unemployment and the rise in disability claims and a drop in the job participation rate. You can't ignore those facts and just say they don't hurt the middle class.

7% unemployment and low workforce participation are not due to immigration.
Lower priced labor helps people who use it for, e.g. home renovations, landscaping etc. Those are middle class people. The taxes you talk about are not due to illegals. If you eliminated all illegals taking public dollars you would not change the spending done on such programs more than maybe 1%.

Come on man you can't just state numbers without at least backing them with a source.

The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers (2010)

•Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

•The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality

•Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.

•At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.

•Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

 

[KNB]

of course as you would too. That is the problem that is hurting the middle class. Why the left hates corporations yet wish to help them out with labor on the cheap, that does hurt people is any one's guess.

that doesn't make any fucking sense. The united states of america is the richest nation in the history of the world. Corporations can afford to pay workers more, both citizens and non-citizens alike, but they don't because that means fewer profits for the companies.

Just as you would. If you had a house and you wanted to put a roof on the house and there were two bids. One bid was from a company that employed us citizens and paid all the money associated with that employment. The other employed cheap immigrants that worked for half as much. You can get the same roof but with the one company pay much less, who would you pick?

"of course you would pay immigrants less than an american." no, republican, i would legalize marijuana and make both the us and mexico more independent from one another, raising the standard of living for the working poor in both countries, and cripple the international money class that controls this current system of exploiting cheap labor to maximize private profits.

Yeah drugs are the answer, keep the stupid masses high and they won't know what is being done to them as long as their drugs are cheap.

i started this thread asking for why folks support immigration with open borders if you are one of them would you respond? Thanks.

i support immigration with open borders because that is what the fuck the united states of america is all about. "bring me your tired, your poor, your huddles masses yearning to breathe free." remember any of that? Remember all of that "we're #1!" bullshit that americans keep chanting? So all you want to do is to chant "we're #1" to the rest of the world and then not let them come here? Like a spoiled rich teenager, you want what you want and fuck everyone else, is that it?

If you oppose immigration then you need to start a petition to dismantle the statue of liberty.

no, we don't need to change much of anything. The immigration laws passed in this country were enforced until recently. What you need do is go to ellis island and see what immigrants had to go through to enter the country from europe. (they had to learn english for one thing)

now immigration for europe is just as hard yet all one needs to be able to do on our southern border is swim the rio grande.

But you do make a point, i like my tomatoes on the cheap so cheap labor is important.

You've never been to the southern border states, have you? Ever been to El Paso, TX? Mexico is literally across the street. There aren't any fences, walls, armed guards, attack dogs, security cameras, no ICE or La Migra, or anything else. It's just a two-way street. On one side, the United States of America, and on the other side, Mexico.

It's just a street.

If you don't like immigrants coming to America then go back to wherever it is that your family came from. "America" itself is an Italian name. Amerigo Vespucci. Look it up. He wasn't born here.

 

[Katzndogz]

Without being crushed with posts accusing me of racism can those who are all for open borders, which the US has not had until relatively recently, please tell me in rational terms why they hold that view? Is it just Altruism? Considering the pain and suffering brought with the illegal immigration, such as diseases, why exactly are you for the flood of low skilled, low educated people? Those opposed I already know your reasons, I think.

Study: All Employment Growth Since 2000 Went to Immigrants

According to a major new report from the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), net employment growth in the United States since 2000 has gone entirely to immigrants, legal and illegal. Using data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, CIS scholars Steven A. Camarota and Karen Zeigler found that there were 127,000 fewer working-age natives holding a job in the first quarter of 2014 than in 2000, while the number of immigrants with a job was 5.7 million above the 2000 level.

Didn't you hear obama? He said that the future belonged to the immigrants. Not to Americans. They have no future in the US.

 

[Katzndogz]

that doesn't make any fucking sense. The united states of america is the richest nation in the history of the world. Corporations can afford to pay workers more, both citizens and non-citizens alike, but they don't because that means fewer profits for the companies.

Just as you would. If you had a house and you wanted to put a roof on the house and there were two bids. One bid was from a company that employed us citizens and paid all the money associated with that employment. The other employed cheap immigrants that worked for half as much. You can get the same roof but with the one company pay much less, who would you pick?

"of course you would pay immigrants less than an american." no, republican, i would legalize marijuana and make both the us and mexico more independent from one another, raising the standard of living for the working poor in both countries, and cripple the international money class that controls this current system of exploiting cheap labor to maximize private profits.

Yeah drugs are the answer, keep the stupid masses high and they won't know what is being done to them as long as their drugs are cheap.

i support immigration with open borders because that is what the fuck the united states of america is all about. "bring me your tired, your poor, your huddles masses yearning to breathe free." remember any of that? Remember all of that "we're #1!" bullshit that americans keep chanting? So all you want to do is to chant "we're #1" to the rest of the world and then not let them come here? Like a spoiled rich teenager, you want what you want and fuck everyone else, is that it?

If you oppose immigration then you need to start a petition to dismantle the statue of liberty.

no, we don't need to change much of anything. The immigration laws passed in this country were enforced until recently. What you need do is go to ellis island and see what immigrants had to go through to enter the country from europe. (they had to learn english for one thing)

now immigration for europe is just as hard yet all one needs to be able to do on our southern border is swim the rio grande.

But you do make a point, i like my tomatoes on the cheap so cheap labor is important.

You've never been to the southern border states, have you? Ever been to El Paso, TX? Mexico is literally across the street. There aren't any fences, walls, armed guards, attack dogs, security cameras, no ICE or La Migra, or anything else. It's just a two-way street. On one side, the United States of America, and on the other side, Mexico.

It's just a street.

If you don't like immigrants coming to America then go back to wherever it is that your family came from. "America" itself is an Italian name. Amerigo Vespucci. Look it up. He wasn't born here.

Is it your opinion that the US has no borders?

The entrance to mexico in El Paso isn't a street. It's a bridge and there is a checkpoint on the Mexican side of the Bridge. There are also two interior check points just outside of El Paso. One on I-10 and another on I-180.

 

[Freewill]

that doesn't make any fucking sense. The united states of america is the richest nation in the history of the world. Corporations can afford to pay workers more, both citizens and non-citizens alike, but they don't because that means fewer profits for the companies.

Just as you would. If you had a house and you wanted to put a roof on the house and there were two bids. One bid was from a company that employed us citizens and paid all the money associated with that employment. The other employed cheap immigrants that worked for half as much. You can get the same roof but with the one company pay much less, who would you pick?

"of course you would pay immigrants less than an american." no, republican, i would legalize marijuana and make both the us and mexico more independent from one another, raising the standard of living for the working poor in both countries, and cripple the international money class that controls this current system of exploiting cheap labor to maximize private profits.

Yeah drugs are the answer, keep the stupid masses high and they won't know what is being done to them as long as their drugs are cheap.

i support immigration with open borders because that is what the fuck the united states of america is all about. "bring me your tired, your poor, your huddles masses yearning to breathe free." remember any of that? Remember all of that "we're #1!" bullshit that americans keep chanting? So all you want to do is to chant "we're #1" to the rest of the world and then not let them come here? Like a spoiled rich teenager, you want what you want and fuck everyone else, is that it?

If you oppose immigration then you need to start a petition to dismantle the statue of liberty.

no, we don't need to change much of anything. The immigration laws passed in this country were enforced until recently. What you need do is go to ellis island and see what immigrants had to go through to enter the country from europe. (they had to learn english for one thing)

now immigration for europe is just as hard yet all one needs to be able to do on our southern border is swim the rio grande.

But you do make a point, i like my tomatoes on the cheap so cheap labor is important.

You've never been to the southern border states, have you? Ever been to El Paso, TX? Mexico is literally across the street. There aren't any fences, walls, armed guards, attack dogs, security cameras, no ICE or La Migra, or anything else. It's just a two-way street. On one side, the United States of America, and on the other side, Mexico.

It's just a street.

If you don't like immigrants coming to America then go back to wherever it is that your family came from. "America" itself is an Italian name. Amerigo Vespucci. Look it up. He wasn't born here.

You know you couldn't debate without become uncivil if you life depended on it. You are a child which I think I will put on ignore. WTF don't you understand the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL? Are you really not that proficient in English.

 

[Freewill]

That's a completely made up version of immigration. No one had to learn English. My great grandfather couldnt speak English beyond a few words and he lived here for over 50 years. There were plenty of Chinese immigrants who were illegals.

To be a naturalized citizen proficiency in English had to be displayed. They taught English at Ellis Island.

 

[Andylusion]

The idea of "they're stealing our jobs" is almost as old as the country. And almost as wrong.
Conservatism is about the free movement of capital and labor. The anti immigrant bunch is simply on the wrong track here.

Are there jobs to steal for a group largely composed of uneducated and low skill? The country NEVER had borders where people just walked across.

So I am getting that you feel that that by allowing ILLEGAL immigration and not just a trickle but a flood of immigrants is good for a country with a lingering 7 percent unemployment rate? When those on disability and dropping out of the work force is on a steep rise?

Here's the problem with that.

Any time you have a system which gives out money........ there are going to be people who adjust their lives to get that money.

If I had a stand outside my house which said "Free food to anyone with a pink shirt, and flip flops", eventually we would all be shocked at the number of pink shirt flip flop people there were in the area I lived.

This universally true. I read this story recently about an older guy who needed to go into a nursing home, but didn't want to pay for it. So he applied for Medicaid to cover it. In the process, they discovered that in order to qualify for Medicaid he was not allowed to have over $50,000 in assets, and this guy had $140,000 or so. So he bought himself a bran new Cadillac SUV, because Medicaid allows you own a car of any value, which is not counted as an asset.

Thus his 'counted assets' dropped below requirement, and now he's collecting Medicaid welfare, while driving around in a $100,000 dollar luxury car, which of course will be transferred to his children on his death.

So back to the topic at hand.

The problem in this case isn't' illegal immigration. The problem is the system.

Because as long as you have the system of giving out money, people will change how they live to get the money.

Instead of complaining about illegals abusing the system, which is a tiny tiny fraction of those who abuse the system.... why don't we just complain about abuse of the system itself? Because that's the problem. If there were no immigrants at all, we'd still have people abusing the system.

Now, let's get back to immigration in general.

I don't have a problem with immigration. Legal immigration.

I have a problem with illegal immigration, because it inherently undermines the rule of law. Respect for the law, is a fundamental aspect of all civilized society. Without that, nothing else really matters.

So all laws, including immigration laws, should be fully and completely enforced.

Beyond that, immigration is only a negative, when we have a socialized system.

Under socialism, everyone collects from society, whether that is public housing, health care, welfare, food stamps, cell phones, free internet, and so on and so forth.

See under socialism, every additional person, is a burden on society. And this is also why inherently socialism leads to tyranny. We socialize health care, and then start complaining how people live, and passing laws on cigarettes and banning big gulp drinks in New York. Why? Because people have poor health habits, and it's a burden on the rest of us, so now we have to micro-manage how everyone lives.

But imagine a free-market capitalist system with immigration.

Imagine if the only time an immigrant had a cell phone, was if he paid for it. The only time he had food, was when he paid for it. The only time he had shelter, housing, cars, TVs, or anything, is when he paid for it, with his money, that he earned.

That immigrant poses zero burden on society, and instead, is a benefit to society. He's working, which means he's producing wealth, and he is purchasing from society, which benefits the economy, and many even invest into society, with their own businesses, building homes, and so on.

Under a free-market capitalist system, every human being in society is a benefit to society, not a burden.

Under that system, we would *WANT* as much immigration as possible. Immigration is a positive for the country, and everyone in it.

 

[KNB]

My opinion is that stupid racists need to stop blaming poor immigrants for coming to the US to seek a real life and instead place blame where it belongs- with the businesses that exploit poor people's suffering to maximize private profit.

The US has 46m people living here who cannot afford food each week. The problem is not food scarcity. The problem is food affordability. Cheap, unhealthy crap is what most Americans have to get by on because real food costs too much for their meager budgets.

The problem is that the richest nation in history doesn't pay its workers a wage that can provide the basic necessities in this system. The problem is that this system was designed for rich people by rich people at the expense of the workers.

As for El Paso, the spot where I was was a run-down street with a bronze placard in the middle with the border line clearly marked "US/Mexico". It was just a street like any other. No one had to jump a fence or forge a river. Perhaps I was mistaken. Perhaps it wasn't El Paso. Perhaps it doesn't even matter because the world's billionaires are sucking up as much money to themselves as possible, leaving billions of people all over the planet struggling to make due with the leftovers. The richest 85 people on Earth have more money than the poorest half of the world's population.

Those 85 people should be the focus of your rage. Those 85 people can afford to pay higher wages to the poorest half of the world's population.