Sullivan in China: 12 hours of meetings zero agreements, China tells America "Taiwan is the red line", China blocks resupplies from Philippines

[shockedcanadian]

Um, Taiwan and the South China Sea are China's territory. The Filipinos should not be trying to claim an Island by putting a wrecked ship on it and then resupplying the ship.


What you Sinophobes don't get is that the red line with China is not respecting her national sovereignty.


Going to war over Taiwan would be stupid. Going to war over some uninhabited Islands in the "South China Sea" would be even stupider. (The Chinese just call it Nan Hai, the South Sea).


Personally, I am glad we have Walz on the Ticket, someone who speaks fluent Mandarin, has lived and taught in China, and understands Chinese culture. That means we'd be less inclined to do something stupid.

You are too biased for this discussion.

Since 2013, reports have indicated that China has created thousands of acres of new land, with estimates suggesting about 3,000 acres (over 1,200 hectares) or more.



China has expanded its presence in the Spratly Islands through the construction of artificial islands, military installations, and infrastructure. This includes key features such as Fiery Cross Reef, Subi Reef, and Mischief Reef, where significant construction began in the mid-2010s.

Then you have Paracel Islands, Senkaku Islands (Diaoyu Islands) and Scarborough Shoal.

This is not a nation that screams "peace for our time". They like to just take and expect no push back and thus far has made it possible.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Taiwan will be invaded if they keep doing stupid shit that provokes China.

Taiwan is part of China. This is an internal Chinese issue and we need to keep the fuck out of it, and let the Chinese work it out for themselves.

The main reason China doesn't invade Taiwan is that it doesn't feel a need to. As long as the world recognizes on paper that Taiwan is part of China and serves a useful purpose of helping China access markets, then China is happy to wait it out until Taiwan collapses in its own Demographic Death Spiral.

By 2100, Tawain's population will fall to 10 million, most of whom will be old people. Now, this might seem like a long time to wait, but keep in mind that China is a 4000-year-old civilization.

What is provoking China?

Will Canada also be invaded if we "provoke" America?

You have been wrong on this issue to such a degree that it's comical.

Let me tell you, if China invades Taiwan, they are going to face a response. Some of the nations who respond have been chomping at the bit for a long time to have an excuse to finally fight back.

I want peace in the world. Taiwan has been its own territory for a long time. China may disagree but nations have a right to self determination.

 

[The Duke]

What is provoking China?

Will Canada also be invaded if we "provoke" America?

You have been wrong on this issue to such a degree that it's comical.

Let me tell you, if China invades Taiwan, they are going to face a response. Some of the nations who respond have been chomping at the bit for a long time to have an excuse to finally fight back.

I want peace in the world. Taiwan has been its own territory for a long time. China may disagree but nations have a right to self determination.

You don't have to provoke a bully, duh! They keep bullying until somebody smashes them in the face and kicks their ass.

 

[JoeB131]

They don't have navy? Huh?

They have the largest navy on earth and every vehicle they have designed in the last 4 years have been with the focus on an amphibious invasion.

Their Navy is much smaller than ours in terms of ship quality. For instance, they only have three carriers that are far inferior to our Nimitz and Ford class carriers. One of them used to be a floating Casino!

Ditto for their missile development. Some of which are designed to sink watercraft in the area, such as American freighters and/or carriers. This is compounded by a Taiwan that is woefully inadequate and prepared. I imagine that Trump would change this substantially and Taiwan would get the weapons and training they need.

Gee, if Trump would get us into a world war over an internal dispute between Chinese people about what kind of government they should have, that makes him more of a dangerous lunatic than I think he is.

The only reason why China would invade Taiwan is if they think their national sovereignty is threatened. Let's not do that.

I suggest you do an honest and objective deep-dive. There are challenges to an invasion no doubt, especially the route they may be forced. That is assumptions though, not unlike the assumptions the French made when attacked by the Germans. They didn't think there was any way the Germans would take the "impossible route", they always assumed it would be through Belgium. Quite wrong as it were with disasterous consequences for humanity.

Actually, any Frenchman who couldn't predict that the Germans would do the exact same thing they did in WWI in WWII was an idiot. In both World Wars, Germany avoided the well-defended border areas and went around through Belgium.

An amphibious invasion of Taiwan would be quite another matter. First, it would require hundreds of ships on the Scale of the D-Day landing. It took YEARS to prepare for Normandy, and it only worked because the Germans made some bone-headed mistakes. They thought the Normandy landing was a diversion and the real invasion would happen at Calais. This mistake was helped along by the Allies creating a fake Army at Dover with blow up tanks and a fake army headquarters under Patton.

In the case of invading Taiwan, the PRC would have to gather massive amounts of Troops in Fuzhou with the ships to transport them and supplies to carry out the invasion. Simply no way they could do that without being detected.

China is not too proud, they like to copy and learn. I believe they will take the unorthodox path into Taiwan, not as direct as we might presume. This is why they are slowly expanding their territorial reach and why the Philippines is so important.

You mean China might cut off our supply of Mail Order Brides?

 

[JoeB131]

What is provoking China?

Will Canada also be invaded if we "provoke" America?

Canada was never part of the US. I mean, we gave you two chances to join in (The Revolutionary war and the war of 1812) but you didn't want to, so we didn't.


Taiwan is part of China. It calls itself the Republic of China. They speak Mandarin and write in Hanzi. (Although they use traditional Hanzi characters,as opposed to the simplified Hanzi the mainland uses.)

If you understood Chinese History, you'd know the one thing they are pretty damned touchy about is anyone infringing on their territory. Understandable, they suffered what they call the "Century of Humiliation" between the First Opium War in 1839 and the Second Sino-Japanese war (AKA World War II). So the tend to be very irritated when ANYONE infringes on their territorial integrity. Sacrificing Taiwan is well worth it, if the Taiwanese themselves get stupid enough to try to declare independence.

You have been wrong on this issue to such a degree that it's comical.

Nope, I just don't think there's a Chinese hiding under my bed who is going to get me at night. (There's actually a Chinese IN My bed, but that's because I married her!)

Let me tell you, if China invades Taiwan, they are going to face a response. Some of the nations who respond have been chomping at the bit for a long time to have an excuse to finally fight back.

That would be incredibly stupid. Committing global suicide because the Chinese hurt your feelings would be pretty stupid.

I want peace in the world. Taiwan has been its own territory for a long time. China may disagree but nations have a right to self determination.

Except the UN recognizes Taiwan as part of China. So does the US State Department, the European Union, and most international organizations.

If anything, China is pretty tolerant. They took over Hong Kong in 1997 but largely allowed it to do their own thing. The invaded Tibet, but they allow it to be an autonomous region. Same with Macao, Inner Mongolia, Guangxi, and Ningxia. Xinjiang is a problem, because Muslim Terrorists are doing what Muslim terrorists do.

 

[JoeB131]

You don't have to provoke a bully, duh! They keep bullying until somebody smashes them in the face and kicks their ass.

Um, if anyone is a bully on the world stage, it's the United States.

China hasn't invaded anyone in the last 45 years.

In that time, we've invaded or Bombed Grenada, Lebanon, Iraq, Panama, Iran, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, probably a bunch of others I am forgetting right now.

We impose sanctions on Venezuela if they pick government leaders we don't like, China goes into countries and helps them build roads and ports.

Seems the world cheers when we get punched in the face.

 

[konradv]

They don't have navy? Huh?

They have the largest navy on earth and every vehicle they have designed in the last 4 years have been with the focus on an amphibious invasion.

Ditto for their missile development. Some of which are designed to sink watercraft in the area, such as American freighters and/or carriers. This is compounded by a Taiwan that is woefully inadequate and prepared. I imagine that Trump would change this substantially and Taiwan would get the weapons and training they need.

I suggest you do an honest and objective deep-dive. There are challenges to an invasion no doubt, especially the route they may be forced. That is assumptions though, not unlike the assumptions the French made when attacked by the Germans. They didn't think there was any way the Germans would take the "impossible route", they always assumed it would be through Belgium. Quite wrong as it were with disasterous consequences for humanity.

China is not too proud, they like to copy and learn. I believe they will take the unorthodox path into Taiwan, not as direct as we might presume. This is why they are slowly expanding their territorial reach and why the Philippines is so important.

They copy, but will they work? Are their troops properly trained. Are their ships worth anything? If you do your research, you’ll find each time the answer is NO!

#CCPSHILL

 

[konradv]

I dunno, scholarship will have to turn away from its current partisan bent.

Read: Towards my partisan bent.

#MAGATRANSLATION

 

[shockedcanadian]

They copy, but will they work? Are their troops properly trained. Are their ships worth anything? If you do your research, you’ll find each time the answer is NO!

#CCPSHILL

Did you know the CCP have banned "feminine men" in their movies and TV shows?

They are going to push for more aggressive, alpha-males. This will help in their recruiting and training. More importantly, it signals their objective. They are the masters of social engineering.

 

[JoeB131]

Did you know the CCP have banned "feminine men" in their movies and TV shows?

They are going to push for more aggressive, alpha-males. This will help in their recruiting and training. More importantly, it signals their objective. They are the masters of social engineering.

Okay, that's a cultural thing that really doesn't matter to Americans.

Frankly, I watch a lot of Chinese media with Mrs. B131. Even with subtitles, it's hard to follow. (She particularly likes historical costume dramas.)

 

[The Duke]

They have the largest navy on earth and every vehicle they have designed in the last 4 years have been with the focus on an amphibious invasion.

I need some proof of that, because I do not believe it.

 

[The Duke]

Um, if anyone is a bully on the world stage, it's the United States.

China hasn't invaded anyone in the last 45 years.

In that time, we've invaded or Bombed Grenada, Lebanon, Iraq, Panama, Iran, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, probably a bunch of others I am forgetting right now.

We impose sanctions on Venezuela if they pick government leaders we don't like, China goes into countries and helps them build roads and ports.

Seems the world cheers when we get punched in the face.

I bet the world would cheer if you got punched in the face, you stupid Commie rat, you.