Taxation in America

[Ray From Cleveland]

The problem with these social programs is once they are started, they are virtually impossible to remove. They are killing our deficits and debt. What's the Democrat solution to this problem? Create more social programs and increase taxes.

The problem is that there is nowhere to cut unless you piss off the voters. Nobody wants to give up their goodies they've been accustomed to all of their lives. Cut military spending? That would make us more vulnerable to our enemies. China already has a supersonic rocket that we aren't close to creating yet.

Social programs like what? Welfare? Medicaid? Foreign Aid? SNAP (food stamps), Farm subsidies? Please see my post #23 where I put up real numbers. They can be adjusted for the SS & Medicare "fixes" like increasing the salary cap, or gradually raising the retirement age.

As for the latest "arms race", who gave China the cash to develop their military? Who is giving Russia cash for gas to fund their military?
No one is close to the US military. US military spending might even trigger WW3.
An ‘Arms Race in Speed’: Hypersonic Weapons and the Changing Calculus of Battle | Arms Control Association
US successfully flies its newest hypersonic missile on B-52 bomber, Lockheed-Martin says

Let me ask you about your list in post 23. What politician could run on that and get elected? The answer is, nobody. Not one politician could run on your plan and have a chance at coming close to a win. As much as DumBama was loved, or Bill Clinton, if they could get back into politics, perhaps a seat in Congress, they would be voted against in a landslide.

Totally agree. That's why I said that we'd need a "Grace Commission II" to map out the path to fiscal sanity. Then we'd need a bi-partisan Bill to implement the changes. There are items that BOTH parties hate. But if we don't want to get buried in Debt we need to get serious about the Budget Deficit before its too late.

Your plan to avoid the financial system collapse due to the $30T...$40T....$50T in DEBT?

My plan would be to institute a consumption tax until the deficit is eliminated, then work on paying off the debt. Why don't politicians address this? Because most people don't care about the debt. Politicians stay in power by giving us things, and the disaster we are heading for will not be their concern. It will be somebody else's problem.

If people cared bout the deficit and debt, Democrats would lose every election in a landslide. What is their promise? More taxing the wealthy and more spending on social programs. That means more problems down the road. But people who vote Democrats simply don't care. More free stuff for me???? You bet I'm going to vote for you, and politicians know this.

We agree on a VAT (value added tax or consumption tax). That's a good start.
Add in a few "fixes" for SS & Medicare and that helps a the budget deficit lot.
What may be the "trigger" for fiscal reform is the fact that Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026 unless its fixed.

I'm against a VAT because a VAT is a hidden tax people will not realizing they're paying. A consumption tax would be obvious on your receipt after you purchase your products. I want people, especially those who voted Democrat all their lives, to realize that free stuff costs money. They loved voting for this free stuff because they never had to pay for it before.

Democrats are now talking about reparations, free college, paid time off of work, government healthcare, and the people who pay no income tax in this country rally behind it. Why? Because they are not paying anything for it. If we had a consumption tax, and it was announced that free college would increase your federal consumption tax from 10 cents to 12 cents, the public would be outraged.

 

[kyzr]

Social programs like what? Welfare? Medicaid? Foreign Aid? SNAP (food stamps), Farm subsidies? Please see my post #23 where I put up real numbers. They can be adjusted for the SS & Medicare "fixes" like increasing the salary cap, or gradually raising the retirement age.

As for the latest "arms race", who gave China the cash to develop their military? Who is giving Russia cash for gas to fund their military?
No one is close to the US military. US military spending might even trigger WW3.
An ‘Arms Race in Speed’: Hypersonic Weapons and the Changing Calculus of Battle | Arms Control Association
US successfully flies its newest hypersonic missile on B-52 bomber, Lockheed-Martin says

Let me ask you about your list in post 23. What politician could run on that and get elected? The answer is, nobody. Not one politician could run on your plan and have a chance at coming close to a win. As much as DumBama was loved, or Bill Clinton, if they could get back into politics, perhaps a seat in Congress, they would be voted against in a landslide.

Totally agree. That's why I said that we'd need a "Grace Commission II" to map out the path to fiscal sanity. Then we'd need a bi-partisan Bill to implement the changes. There are items that BOTH parties hate. But if we don't want to get buried in Debt we need to get serious about the Budget Deficit before its too late.

Your plan to avoid the financial system collapse due to the $30T...$40T....$50T in DEBT?

My plan would be to institute a consumption tax until the deficit is eliminated, then work on paying off the debt. Why don't politicians address this? Because most people don't care about the debt. Politicians stay in power by giving us things, and the disaster we are heading for will not be their concern. It will be somebody else's problem.

If people cared bout the deficit and debt, Democrats would lose every election in a landslide. What is their promise? More taxing the wealthy and more spending on social programs. That means more problems down the road. But people who vote Democrats simply don't care. More free stuff for me???? You bet I'm going to vote for you, and politicians know this.

We agree on a VAT (value added tax or consumption tax). That's a good start.
Add in a few "fixes" for SS & Medicare and that helps a the budget deficit lot.
What may be the "trigger" for fiscal reform is the fact that Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026 unless its fixed.

I'm against a VAT because a VAT is a hidden tax people will not realizing they're paying. A consumption tax would be obvious on your receipt after you purchase your products. I want people, especially those who voted Democrat all their lives, to realize that free stuff costs money. They loved voting for this free stuff because they never had to pay for it before.

Democrats are now talking about reparations, free college, paid time off of work, government healthcare, and the people who pay no income tax in this country rally behind it. Why? Because they are not paying anything for it. If we had a consumption tax, and it was announced that free college would increase your federal consumption tax from 10 cents to 12 cents, the public would be outraged.

OK, I didn't realize that there was a difference between a VAT and consumption tax.
There are all kinds of taxes most of us don't question, like excise taxes, or sales taxes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Let me ask you about your list in post 23. What politician could run on that and get elected? The answer is, nobody. Not one politician could run on your plan and have a chance at coming close to a win. As much as DumBama was loved, or Bill Clinton, if they could get back into politics, perhaps a seat in Congress, they would be voted against in a landslide.

Totally agree. That's why I said that we'd need a "Grace Commission II" to map out the path to fiscal sanity. Then we'd need a bi-partisan Bill to implement the changes. There are items that BOTH parties hate. But if we don't want to get buried in Debt we need to get serious about the Budget Deficit before its too late.

Your plan to avoid the financial system collapse due to the $30T...$40T....$50T in DEBT?

My plan would be to institute a consumption tax until the deficit is eliminated, then work on paying off the debt. Why don't politicians address this? Because most people don't care about the debt. Politicians stay in power by giving us things, and the disaster we are heading for will not be their concern. It will be somebody else's problem.

If people cared bout the deficit and debt, Democrats would lose every election in a landslide. What is their promise? More taxing the wealthy and more spending on social programs. That means more problems down the road. But people who vote Democrats simply don't care. More free stuff for me???? You bet I'm going to vote for you, and politicians know this.

We agree on a VAT (value added tax or consumption tax). That's a good start.
Add in a few "fixes" for SS & Medicare and that helps a the budget deficit lot.
What may be the "trigger" for fiscal reform is the fact that Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026 unless its fixed.

I'm against a VAT because a VAT is a hidden tax people will not realizing they're paying. A consumption tax would be obvious on your receipt after you purchase your products. I want people, especially those who voted Democrat all their lives, to realize that free stuff costs money. They loved voting for this free stuff because they never had to pay for it before.

Democrats are now talking about reparations, free college, paid time off of work, government healthcare, and the people who pay no income tax in this country rally behind it. Why? Because they are not paying anything for it. If we had a consumption tax, and it was announced that free college would increase your federal consumption tax from 10 cents to 12 cents, the public would be outraged.

OK, I didn't realize that there was a difference between a VAT and consumption tax.
There are all kinds of taxes most of us don't question, like excise taxes, or sales taxes.

The difference is a VAT tax is added at the manufacturing level, so it's intrinsic in the price. We have a consumption tax where I live, it's 8 cents on the dollar, and it's listed on your receipt as sales tax. It's kind of like ethanol. When they started that nonsense, it greatly increased the cost of food products because it's made from agriculture goods. It pissed people off, but only for a week or two. After a while, people just adapted to it. People didn't demand a halt to making ethanol or having it in our gasoline.

If I were President today, I'd make an EO that all products had to list green cost on the packaging. People don't realize what this green nonsense is costing them because again, it's in the price of their products. So when they ask people if they'd like to see a cleaner planet, well Duh! What do you think their answer is going to be? If people realized what they were paying for Green already, the surveys would come out entirely different.

 

[OnePercenter]

kyzr, you're off base son. most everyone's 401k is subject to capital gains. Everyone's. so if you raise the capital gains, you raise it on the middle class. son, I wish all of you would shut the fk up. you have no idea what you're talking about. shut up!

I'm way older than you kiddo. So tell me what happens if the budget deficit keeps growing and the $23T Debt goes to $30T?
Factor in that Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026 and Social Security insolvent in 2032.
Your solution is "O'wise One"???

And what happens when interest rates increase...

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm way older than you kiddo. So tell me what happens if the budget deficit keeps growing and the $23T Debt goes to $30T?
Factor in that Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026 and Social Security insolvent in 2032.
Your solution is "O'wise One"???

And what happens when interest rates increase...

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

Pensions are a thing of the past. What companies used to do is fire or layoff the worker right before they had enough time in to collect the pension. I seen that at a company I once worked for. People spend their entire life at a place doing a good job, and because they had a pension with the company from many years ago, they lose their job.

 

[jc456]

I'm way older than you kiddo. So tell me what happens if the budget deficit keeps growing and the $23T Debt goes to $30T?
Factor in that Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026 and Social Security insolvent in 2032.
Your solution is "O'wise One"???

And what happens when interest rates increase...

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And what happens when interest rates increase...

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Same here, our IRA survived and did very well during the recession. In fact, the recession greatly helped it. What the market is doing is irrelevant until you're ready to start collecting.

 

[jc456]

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Same here, our IRA survived and did very well during the recession. In fact, the recession greatly helped it. What the market is doing is irrelevant until you're ready to start collecting.

dude, I made 8% money for that year 2008.

 

[OnePercenter]

And what happens when interest rates increase...

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

Pensions are a thing of the past. What companies used to do is fire or layoff the worker right before they had enough time in to collect the pension. I seen that at a company I once worked for. People spend their entire life at a place doing a good job, and because they had a pension with the company from many years ago, they lose their job.

That's why Unions are so important.

 

[jc456]

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

Pensions are a thing of the past. What companies used to do is fire or layoff the worker right before they had enough time in to collect the pension. I seen that at a company I once worked for. People spend their entire life at a place doing a good job, and because they had a pension with the company from many years ago, they lose their job.

That's why Unions are so important.

why?

 

[OnePercenter]

And what happens when interest rates increase...

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Why don't you "edumakate" all of us on 401k's and IRA's. I can't wait for this one!

 

[jc456]

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Why don't you "edumakate" all of us on 401k's and IRA's. I can't wait for this one!

that's not my job. that's your job. You have access to the internet, go read up on their advantages.

 

[OnePercenter]

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Same here, our IRA survived and did very well during the recession. In fact, the recession greatly helped it. What the market is doing is irrelevant until you're ready to start collecting.

In 2008, your IRA had a median return of -30%. And it's happening yet again.

 

[kyzr]

I'm way older than you kiddo. So tell me what happens if the budget deficit keeps growing and the $23T Debt goes to $30T?
Factor in that Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026 and Social Security insolvent in 2032.
Your solution is "O'wise One"???

And what happens when interest rates increase...

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

Companies and more importantly local governments cannot budget for "defined benefit pensions". Early posts on this thread showed examples of corruption where government workers got exorbitant pensions and then the government goes bankrupt hurting everyone.
401Ks are much simpler.
The employer and employees contribute about 6%, it grows over time and gets rolled into an IRA when at retirement.
Its better than a pension from a bankrupt employer.

 

[jc456]

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Same here, our IRA survived and did very well during the recession. In fact, the recession greatly helped it. What the market is doing is irrelevant until you're ready to start collecting.

In 2008, your IRA had a median return of -30%. And it's happening yet again.

link! I made 8%

 

[OnePercenter]

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Why don't you "edumakate" all of us on 401k's and IRA's. I can't wait for this one!

that's not my job. that's your job. You have access to the internet, go read up on their advantages.

So you haven't a clue.

 

[kyzr]

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Same here, our IRA survived and did very well during the recession. In fact, the recession greatly helped it. What the market is doing is irrelevant until you're ready to start collecting.

In 2008, your IRA had a median return of -30%. And it's happening yet again.

Over time a 401k should average 7% to 8%. If you look at "dips" you need to factor in the long term growth, not just the dip.
People that retired in 2008 needed to stay invested and they would come out way ahead again.
You do NOT spend all your money the second you retire, you keep it invested, it just goes from a 401K to an IRA.
Future Value Calculator

 

[OnePercenter]

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Same here, our IRA survived and did very well during the recession. In fact, the recession greatly helped it. What the market is doing is irrelevant until you're ready to start collecting.

In 2008, your IRA had a median return of -30%. And it's happening yet again.

link! I made 8%

Big Retirement Losses If The Market Crashes Tomorrow

 

[colfax_m]

And what happens when interest rates increase...

Exactly. The crap hits the impellers and the DC crooks all retire.

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

Companies and more importantly local governments cannot budget for "defined benefit pensions". Early posts on this thread showed examples of corruption where government workers got exorbitant pensions and then the government goes bankrupt hurting everyone.
401Ks are much simpler.
The employer and employees contribute about 6%, it grows over time and gets rolled into an IRA when at retirement.
Its better than a pension from a bankrupt employer.

Sure, companies and government can budget for them. They just don’t want to.

The problem with IRAs and 401ks is that they run out.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

the Chicago Chief of Police was fired, his pension will pay him 187k for the rest of his life. 100 times more money than he put in. dude, stop with the stupid.

Who gave the city retirees such outrageous pensions?
We need a federal law that limits pensions to a multiple of their salary.
Better yet, eliminate "defined benefit" pensions and only allow 401Ks, so there are no future payments.

Why shouldn't American Workers have good pensions?

Only allow 401k's? How did your 401k do over the past two days?

my 401ks and IRA's did just fine. you haven't a clue what a 401k is or even an IRA. too fking funny. Another no nothing posting stupid you are. And, you have no idea what a pension is.

Same here, our IRA survived and did very well during the recession. In fact, the recession greatly helped it. What the market is doing is irrelevant until you're ready to start collecting.

In 2008, your IRA had a median return of -30%. And it's happening yet again.

Yes it did. Our investment company took contributions, but didn't put it in the market. They waited until signals showed growth again. It was great. It was buying ten shares for the price of three. Thanks to that, my IRA is in pretty good shape now.