Taxation in America

[Ray From Cleveland]

It is truly sad that average Americans fail to see the fraud being committed against them, with this absurd wealth inequality.

Do they really think the 1% deserve socialism, but the poor get rigged individualism?

Your complaint falls on deaf ears because you refuse to separate taxes. There are different taxes for different things. Nearly half of our country pays no income taxes while the top 20% pay close to 90% of all collected income taxes. and yet, people think they should be paying even more than 88%. So how much more should they be paying? Because when I ask people that question, nobody can come up with a straight answer.

You are stuck on income taxes, and refusing to look at all taxes. Are you stupid?

As I explained, those other taxes are for infrastructure that everybody uses. You are paying for the services rendered to you. Even still, the wealthy are paying more into those programs as well. And as I explained, you get much or all of your social program tax back when you retire. So is it really a tax when they take money from you, and give it back later???

Your state and local taxes are nothing. The big deductions are SS and FISA tax, followed by Medicare. FISA is just a fancy acronym for SS and Medicare. That's what it's used for.

Now if you take those out of the mix, the poor and middle-class are not paying much in those other taxes at all, and the well-to-do people are still paying more into those coffers than you and I are.

 

[gipper]

It is truly sad that average Americans fail to see the fraud being committed against them, with this absurd wealth inequality.

Do they really think the 1% deserve socialism, but the poor get rigged individualism?

Your complaint falls on deaf ears because you refuse to separate taxes. There are different taxes for different things. Nearly half of our country pays no income taxes while the top 20% pay close to 90% of all collected income taxes. and yet, people think they should be paying even more than 88%. So how much more should they be paying? Because when I ask people that question, nobody can come up with a straight answer.

You are stuck on income taxes, and refusing to look at all taxes. Are you stupid?

As I explained, those other taxes are for infrastructure that everybody uses. You are paying for the services rendered to you. Even still, the wealthy are paying more into those programs as well. And as I explained, you get much or all of your social program tax back when you retire. So is it really a tax when they take money from you, and give it back later???

Your state and local taxes are nothing. The big deductions are SS and FISA tax, followed by Medicare. FISA is just a fancy acronym for SS and Medicare. That's what it's used for.

Now if you take those out of the mix, the poor and middle-class are not paying much in those other taxes at all, and the well-to-do people are still paying more into those coffers than you and I are.

Doesn’t matter. When the poor pay the same or more of their wealth as a percentage than the ultra rich, change is needed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So what exactly are you comparing to the VISA bill?

1. The $23T Debt is analogous to a maxed out Visa card balance where all you can afford to pay is the interest, you can never pay down the debt.
2. A much better financial situation is "pay as you go" every month so you are not paying interest on the borrowed money balance.

With a credit card bill the best solution is to eventually pay it off over time. Do you think it would be a good thing to pay off the US National Debt until it is all paid off?

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

The only way to do that is to increase taxes, lower spending, or both. The problem is, both would have a negative effect on our economy.

It's like Walter E Williams once asked: What if I decided to run for Congress, and my platform would be, I will bring no money back to our state, how many of you would actually vote for me?

Our social programs are exemplified by my Raccoon theory. You see a raccoon digging around in your garbage, so in sympathy, you go inside the house and get that quarter ham on a bone you were going to throw out at the end of the week anyhow. The animal eats in delight. Now give it about 20 seconds, and try to take that ham bone back and see what happens to you.

Democrats are well aware of my raccoon theory. That's why they want to keep starting more social programs. They know once instituted, it will be impossible for Democrats or Republicans to remove them--at least not without getting your hand all bit up.

The Debt Bomb would also have a negative effect on the economy. Pick your poison, the Debt Bomb, or higher taxes and less spending.

Please list the "social programs" your raccoons could live without, Welfare, Medicare, Food Stamps (SNAP), farm subsidies, foreign aid?
See post #23 for how I would cut spending and raise taxes to start paying down the Debt. The economy would be fine.

The problem with these social programs is once they are started, they are virtually impossible to remove. They are killing our deficits and debt. What's the Democrat solution to this problem? Create more social programs and increase taxes.

The problem is that there is nowhere to cut unless you piss off the voters. Nobody wants to give up their goodies they've been accustomed to all of their lives. Cut military spending? That would make us more vulnerable to our enemies. China already has a supersonic rocket that we aren't close to creating yet.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It is truly sad that average Americans fail to see the fraud being committed against them, with this absurd wealth inequality.

Do they really think the 1% deserve socialism, but the poor get rigged individualism?

Your complaint falls on deaf ears because you refuse to separate taxes. There are different taxes for different things. Nearly half of our country pays no income taxes while the top 20% pay close to 90% of all collected income taxes. and yet, people think they should be paying even more than 88%. So how much more should they be paying? Because when I ask people that question, nobody can come up with a straight answer.

You are stuck on income taxes, and refusing to look at all taxes. Are you stupid?

As I explained, those other taxes are for infrastructure that everybody uses. You are paying for the services rendered to you. Even still, the wealthy are paying more into those programs as well. And as I explained, you get much or all of your social program tax back when you retire. So is it really a tax when they take money from you, and give it back later???

Your state and local taxes are nothing. The big deductions are SS and FISA tax, followed by Medicare. FISA is just a fancy acronym for SS and Medicare. That's what it's used for.

Now if you take those out of the mix, the poor and middle-class are not paying much in those other taxes at all, and the well-to-do people are still paying more into those coffers than you and I are.

Doesn’t matter. When the poor pay the same or more of their wealth as a percentage than the ultra rich, change is needed.

Of course it matters when you get most of what you put in back at a later time. The rich don't get anything back. They just pay.

 

[gipper]

It is truly sad that average Americans fail to see the fraud being committed against them, with this absurd wealth inequality.

Do they really think the 1% deserve socialism, but the poor get rigged individualism?

Your complaint falls on deaf ears because you refuse to separate taxes. There are different taxes for different things. Nearly half of our country pays no income taxes while the top 20% pay close to 90% of all collected income taxes. and yet, people think they should be paying even more than 88%. So how much more should they be paying? Because when I ask people that question, nobody can come up with a straight answer.

You are stuck on income taxes, and refusing to look at all taxes. Are you stupid?

As I explained, those other taxes are for infrastructure that everybody uses. You are paying for the services rendered to you. Even still, the wealthy are paying more into those programs as well. And as I explained, you get much or all of your social program tax back when you retire. So is it really a tax when they take money from you, and give it back later???

Your state and local taxes are nothing. The big deductions are SS and FISA tax, followed by Medicare. FISA is just a fancy acronym for SS and Medicare. That's what it's used for.

Now if you take those out of the mix, the poor and middle-class are not paying much in those other taxes at all, and the well-to-do people are still paying more into those coffers than you and I are.

Doesn’t matter. When the poor pay the same or more of their wealth as a percentage than the ultra rich, change is needed.

Of course it matters when you get most of what you put in back at a later time. The rich don't get anything back. They just pay.

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Your complaint falls on deaf ears because you refuse to separate taxes. There are different taxes for different things. Nearly half of our country pays no income taxes while the top 20% pay close to 90% of all collected income taxes. and yet, people think they should be paying even more than 88%. So how much more should they be paying? Because when I ask people that question, nobody can come up with a straight answer.

You are stuck on income taxes, and refusing to look at all taxes. Are you stupid?

As I explained, those other taxes are for infrastructure that everybody uses. You are paying for the services rendered to you. Even still, the wealthy are paying more into those programs as well. And as I explained, you get much or all of your social program tax back when you retire. So is it really a tax when they take money from you, and give it back later???

Your state and local taxes are nothing. The big deductions are SS and FISA tax, followed by Medicare. FISA is just a fancy acronym for SS and Medicare. That's what it's used for.

Now if you take those out of the mix, the poor and middle-class are not paying much in those other taxes at all, and the well-to-do people are still paying more into those coffers than you and I are.

Doesn’t matter. When the poor pay the same or more of their wealth as a percentage than the ultra rich, change is needed.

Of course it matters when you get most of what you put in back at a later time. The rich don't get anything back. They just pay.

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act, or FICA, requires employers to withhold certain payroll taxes for the benefit of retirees, people with disabilities and children.

FICA taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Employers and employees each pay half the tax withheld. But if your wages exceed a set amount, the tax rates on your income can vary.

And if you’re self-employed, you’re responsible for paying into both Social Security and Medicare. You’ll pay the full amount on your own as self-employment tax.

What Are FICA Taxes? | Credit Karma Tax®

 

[gipper]

You are stuck on income taxes, and refusing to look at all taxes. Are you stupid?

As I explained, those other taxes are for infrastructure that everybody uses. You are paying for the services rendered to you. Even still, the wealthy are paying more into those programs as well. And as I explained, you get much or all of your social program tax back when you retire. So is it really a tax when they take money from you, and give it back later???

Your state and local taxes are nothing. The big deductions are SS and FISA tax, followed by Medicare. FISA is just a fancy acronym for SS and Medicare. That's what it's used for.

Now if you take those out of the mix, the poor and middle-class are not paying much in those other taxes at all, and the well-to-do people are still paying more into those coffers than you and I are.

Doesn’t matter. When the poor pay the same or more of their wealth as a percentage than the ultra rich, change is needed.

Of course it matters when you get most of what you put in back at a later time. The rich don't get anything back. They just pay.

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act, or FICA, requires employers to withhold certain payroll taxes for the benefit of retirees, people with disabilities and children.

FICA taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Employers and employees each pay half the tax withheld. But if your wages exceed a set amount, the tax rates on your income can vary.

And if you’re self-employed, you’re responsible for paying into both Social Security and Medicare. You’ll pay the full amount on your own as self-employment tax.

What Are FICA Taxes? | Credit Karma Tax®

?

 

[gipper]

You are stuck on income taxes, and refusing to look at all taxes. Are you stupid?

As I explained, those other taxes are for infrastructure that everybody uses. You are paying for the services rendered to you. Even still, the wealthy are paying more into those programs as well. And as I explained, you get much or all of your social program tax back when you retire. So is it really a tax when they take money from you, and give it back later???

Your state and local taxes are nothing. The big deductions are SS and FISA tax, followed by Medicare. FISA is just a fancy acronym for SS and Medicare. That's what it's used for.

Now if you take those out of the mix, the poor and middle-class are not paying much in those other taxes at all, and the well-to-do people are still paying more into those coffers than you and I are.

Doesn’t matter. When the poor pay the same or more of their wealth as a percentage than the ultra rich, change is needed.

Of course it matters when you get most of what you put in back at a later time. The rich don't get anything back. They just pay.

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act, or FICA, requires employers to withhold certain payroll taxes for the benefit of retirees, people with disabilities and children.

FICA taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Employers and employees each pay half the tax withheld. But if your wages exceed a set amount, the tax rates on your income can vary.

And if you’re self-employed, you’re responsible for paying into both Social Security and Medicare. You’ll pay the full amount on your own as self-employment tax.

What Are FICA Taxes? | Credit Karma Tax®

Apparently you’re unaware that FICA and consumption taxes hit the poor hard, while not affecting the rich at all. Please think.

 

[Oddball]

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As I explained, those other taxes are for infrastructure that everybody uses. You are paying for the services rendered to you. Even still, the wealthy are paying more into those programs as well. And as I explained, you get much or all of your social program tax back when you retire. So is it really a tax when they take money from you, and give it back later???

Your state and local taxes are nothing. The big deductions are SS and FISA tax, followed by Medicare. FISA is just a fancy acronym for SS and Medicare. That's what it's used for.

Now if you take those out of the mix, the poor and middle-class are not paying much in those other taxes at all, and the well-to-do people are still paying more into those coffers than you and I are.

Doesn’t matter. When the poor pay the same or more of their wealth as a percentage than the ultra rich, change is needed.

Of course it matters when you get most of what you put in back at a later time. The rich don't get anything back. They just pay.

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act, or FICA, requires employers to withhold certain payroll taxes for the benefit of retirees, people with disabilities and children.

FICA taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Employers and employees each pay half the tax withheld. But if your wages exceed a set amount, the tax rates on your income can vary.

And if you’re self-employed, you’re responsible for paying into both Social Security and Medicare. You’ll pay the full amount on your own as self-employment tax.

What Are FICA Taxes? | Credit Karma Tax®

Apparently you’re unaware that FICA and consumption taxes hit the poor hard, while not affecting the rich at all. Please think.

What consumption taxes do you speak of, state taxes? Ours is 8 cents on the dollar for state and county. I don't know of anybody going homeless over them. If you spend a hundred bucks, that's only eight dollars. You can make that working at McDonald's for one hour. Is eight dollars more important to a poor person than a rich? I'm sure it is. But so is a thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars.

Taxation should not be about who is hurt more, taxation should be about a community pitching in for the services provided equally to all of us.

 

[gipper]

Doesn’t matter. When the poor pay the same or more of their wealth as a percentage than the ultra rich, change is needed.

Of course it matters when you get most of what you put in back at a later time. The rich don't get anything back. They just pay.

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act, or FICA, requires employers to withhold certain payroll taxes for the benefit of retirees, people with disabilities and children.

FICA taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Employers and employees each pay half the tax withheld. But if your wages exceed a set amount, the tax rates on your income can vary.

And if you’re self-employed, you’re responsible for paying into both Social Security and Medicare. You’ll pay the full amount on your own as self-employment tax.

What Are FICA Taxes? | Credit Karma Tax®

Apparently you’re unaware that FICA and consumption taxes hit the poor hard, while not affecting the rich at all. Please think.

What consumption taxes do you speak of, state taxes? Ours is 8 cents on the dollar for state and county. I don't know of anybody going homeless over them. If you spend a hundred bucks, that's only eight dollars. You can make that working at McDonald's for one hour. Is eight dollars more important to a poor person than a rich? I'm sure it is. But so is a thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars.

Taxation should not be about who is hurt more, taxation should be about a community pitching in for the services provided equally to all of us.

Look up consumption taxes. They clearly hit the poor much more than the rich.

Taxation should be eliminated, but I’m dreaming. Since we can’t eliminate them, the taxes shouldn’t unfairly hit the poor more than the rich.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Of course it matters when you get most of what you put in back at a later time. The rich don't get anything back. They just pay.

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act, or FICA, requires employers to withhold certain payroll taxes for the benefit of retirees, people with disabilities and children.

FICA taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Employers and employees each pay half the tax withheld. But if your wages exceed a set amount, the tax rates on your income can vary.

And if you’re self-employed, you’re responsible for paying into both Social Security and Medicare. You’ll pay the full amount on your own as self-employment tax.

What Are FICA Taxes? | Credit Karma Tax®

Apparently you’re unaware that FICA and consumption taxes hit the poor hard, while not affecting the rich at all. Please think.

What consumption taxes do you speak of, state taxes? Ours is 8 cents on the dollar for state and county. I don't know of anybody going homeless over them. If you spend a hundred bucks, that's only eight dollars. You can make that working at McDonald's for one hour. Is eight dollars more important to a poor person than a rich? I'm sure it is. But so is a thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars.

Taxation should not be about who is hurt more, taxation should be about a community pitching in for the services provided equally to all of us.

Look up consumption taxes. They clearly hit the poor much more than the rich.

Taxation should be eliminated, but I’m dreaming. Since we can’t eliminate them, the taxes shouldn’t unfairly hit the poor more than the rich.

Why are you scared to answer this question?
“So you’re thinking Bernie may win because some people have more and earn more than others? Think about that for a minute.
Are you thinking poor people should be exempt from paying “payroll taxes” and “consumption taxes”?”

 

[kyzr]

1. The $23T Debt is analogous to a maxed out Visa card balance where all you can afford to pay is the interest, you can never pay down the debt.
2. A much better financial situation is "pay as you go" every month so you are not paying interest on the borrowed money balance.

With a credit card bill the best solution is to eventually pay it off over time. Do you think it would be a good thing to pay off the US National Debt until it is all paid off?

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

The only way to do that is to increase taxes, lower spending, or both. The problem is, both would have a negative effect on our economy.

It's like Walter E Williams once asked: What if I decided to run for Congress, and my platform would be, I will bring no money back to our state, how many of you would actually vote for me?

Our social programs are exemplified by my Raccoon theory. You see a raccoon digging around in your garbage, so in sympathy, you go inside the house and get that quarter ham on a bone you were going to throw out at the end of the week anyhow. The animal eats in delight. Now give it about 20 seconds, and try to take that ham bone back and see what happens to you.

Democrats are well aware of my raccoon theory. That's why they want to keep starting more social programs. They know once instituted, it will be impossible for Democrats or Republicans to remove them--at least not without getting your hand all bit up.

The Debt Bomb would also have a negative effect on the economy. Pick your poison, the Debt Bomb, or higher taxes and less spending.

Please list the "social programs" your raccoons could live without, Welfare, Medicare, Food Stamps (SNAP), farm subsidies, foreign aid?
See post #23 for how I would cut spending and raise taxes to start paying down the Debt. The economy would be fine.

The problem with these social programs is once they are started, they are virtually impossible to remove. They are killing our deficits and debt. What's the Democrat solution to this problem? Create more social programs and increase taxes.

The problem is that there is nowhere to cut unless you piss off the voters. Nobody wants to give up their goodies they've been accustomed to all of their lives. Cut military spending? That would make us more vulnerable to our enemies. China already has a supersonic rocket that we aren't close to creating yet.

Social programs like what? Welfare? Medicaid? Foreign Aid? SNAP (food stamps), Farm subsidies? Please see my post #23 where I put up real numbers. They can be adjusted for the SS & Medicare "fixes" like increasing the salary cap, or gradually raising the retirement age.

As for the latest "arms race", who gave China the cash to develop their military? Who is giving Russia cash for gas to fund their military?
No one is close to the US military. US military spending might even trigger WW3.
An ‘Arms Race in Speed’: Hypersonic Weapons and the Changing Calculus of Battle | Arms Control Association
US successfully flies its newest hypersonic missile on B-52 bomber, Lockheed-Martin says

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Of course it matters when you get most of what you put in back at a later time. The rich don't get anything back. They just pay.

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act, or FICA, requires employers to withhold certain payroll taxes for the benefit of retirees, people with disabilities and children.

FICA taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Employers and employees each pay half the tax withheld. But if your wages exceed a set amount, the tax rates on your income can vary.

And if you’re self-employed, you’re responsible for paying into both Social Security and Medicare. You’ll pay the full amount on your own as self-employment tax.

What Are FICA Taxes? | Credit Karma Tax®

Apparently you’re unaware that FICA and consumption taxes hit the poor hard, while not affecting the rich at all. Please think.

What consumption taxes do you speak of, state taxes? Ours is 8 cents on the dollar for state and county. I don't know of anybody going homeless over them. If you spend a hundred bucks, that's only eight dollars. You can make that working at McDonald's for one hour. Is eight dollars more important to a poor person than a rich? I'm sure it is. But so is a thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars.

Taxation should not be about who is hurt more, taxation should be about a community pitching in for the services provided equally to all of us.

Look up consumption taxes. They clearly hit the poor much more than the rich.

Taxation should be eliminated, but I’m dreaming. Since we can’t eliminate them, the taxes shouldn’t unfairly hit the poor more than the rich.

I'm sorry, but that's just the nature of different income levels. Let me ask:

Should the well-to-do pay more for a big mac combo than the poor? Should they get cheaper lawn care prices? Should they get groceries at a lower cost and foot the difference to the wealthy? Should they get a huge discount on a new automobile? How about utilities for their home? Gasoline?

The point I'm making is, that the wealthy will always have an easier go of it be it buying a new home, new car, a swimming pool, college education for their children. The US Constitution guarantees the right to pursue happiness, not a guarantee you will have it. But when one does find happiness (on a financial level in this instance) should government take that happiness and give it to others?

Many people have more than you and I, but we have more than others. It's not fair to take from those we consider having more, no more than it's right for those below us to take from us. As we evolved as a country, we developed a social structure where government provides us with things not listed in the Constitution. If that's not bad enough, footing the bill to only certain Americans instead of us all pitching in to this society is even worse, because some believe that those who did better have to pitch in more.

I think, a fair society is where everybody pitches in equally, and your finances not be the arbiter of how much we all pitch in. We all live here, we all get the same amenities, we all get the same protections, so it's only fair we all pay for it equally, and not based on how much it hurts to do so.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

With a credit card bill the best solution is to eventually pay it off over time. Do you think it would be a good thing to pay off the US National Debt until it is all paid off?

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

The only way to do that is to increase taxes, lower spending, or both. The problem is, both would have a negative effect on our economy.

It's like Walter E Williams once asked: What if I decided to run for Congress, and my platform would be, I will bring no money back to our state, how many of you would actually vote for me?

Our social programs are exemplified by my Raccoon theory. You see a raccoon digging around in your garbage, so in sympathy, you go inside the house and get that quarter ham on a bone you were going to throw out at the end of the week anyhow. The animal eats in delight. Now give it about 20 seconds, and try to take that ham bone back and see what happens to you.

Democrats are well aware of my raccoon theory. That's why they want to keep starting more social programs. They know once instituted, it will be impossible for Democrats or Republicans to remove them--at least not without getting your hand all bit up.

The Debt Bomb would also have a negative effect on the economy. Pick your poison, the Debt Bomb, or higher taxes and less spending.

Please list the "social programs" your raccoons could live without, Welfare, Medicare, Food Stamps (SNAP), farm subsidies, foreign aid?
See post #23 for how I would cut spending and raise taxes to start paying down the Debt. The economy would be fine.

The problem with these social programs is once they are started, they are virtually impossible to remove. They are killing our deficits and debt. What's the Democrat solution to this problem? Create more social programs and increase taxes.

The problem is that there is nowhere to cut unless you piss off the voters. Nobody wants to give up their goodies they've been accustomed to all of their lives. Cut military spending? That would make us more vulnerable to our enemies. China already has a supersonic rocket that we aren't close to creating yet.

Social programs like what? Welfare? Medicaid? Foreign Aid? SNAP (food stamps), Farm subsidies? Please see my post #23 where I put up real numbers. They can be adjusted for the SS & Medicare "fixes" like increasing the salary cap, or gradually raising the retirement age.

As for the latest "arms race", who gave China the cash to develop their military? Who is giving Russia cash for gas to fund their military?
No one is close to the US military. US military spending might even trigger WW3.
An ‘Arms Race in Speed’: Hypersonic Weapons and the Changing Calculus of Battle | Arms Control Association
US successfully flies its newest hypersonic missile on B-52 bomber, Lockheed-Martin says

Let me ask you about your list in post 23. What politician could run on that and get elected? The answer is, nobody. Not one politician could run on your plan and have a chance at coming close to a win. As much as DumBama was loved, or Bill Clinton, if they could get back into politics, perhaps a seat in Congress, they would be voted against in a landslide.

 

[gipper]

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act, or FICA, requires employers to withhold certain payroll taxes for the benefit of retirees, people with disabilities and children.

FICA taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Employers and employees each pay half the tax withheld. But if your wages exceed a set amount, the tax rates on your income can vary.

And if you’re self-employed, you’re responsible for paying into both Social Security and Medicare. You’ll pay the full amount on your own as self-employment tax.

What Are FICA Taxes? | Credit Karma Tax®

Apparently you’re unaware that FICA and consumption taxes hit the poor hard, while not affecting the rich at all. Please think.

What consumption taxes do you speak of, state taxes? Ours is 8 cents on the dollar for state and county. I don't know of anybody going homeless over them. If you spend a hundred bucks, that's only eight dollars. You can make that working at McDonald's for one hour. Is eight dollars more important to a poor person than a rich? I'm sure it is. But so is a thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars.

Taxation should not be about who is hurt more, taxation should be about a community pitching in for the services provided equally to all of us.

Look up consumption taxes. They clearly hit the poor much more than the rich.

Taxation should be eliminated, but I’m dreaming. Since we can’t eliminate them, the taxes shouldn’t unfairly hit the poor more than the rich.

I'm sorry, but that's just the nature of different income levels. Let me ask:

Should the well-to-do pay more for a big mac combo than the poor? Should they get cheaper lawn care prices? Should they get groceries at a lower cost and foot the difference to the wealthy? Should they get a huge discount on a new automobile? How about utilities for their home? Gasoline?

The point I'm making is, that the wealthy will always have an easier go of it be it buying a new home, new car, a swimming pool, college education for their children. The US Constitution guarantees the right to pursue happiness, not a guarantee you will have it. But when one does find happiness (on a financial level in this instance) should government take that happiness and give it to others?

Many people have more than you and I, but we have more than others. It's not fair to take from those we consider having more, no more than it's right for those below us to take from us. As we evolved as a country, we developed a social structure where government provides us with things not listed in the Constitution. If that's not bad enough, footing the bill to only certain Americans instead of us all pitching in to this society is even worse, because some believe that those who did better have to pitch in more.

I think, a fair society is where everybody pitches in equally, and your finances not be the arbiter of how much we all pitch in. We all live here, we all get the same amenities, we all get the same protections, so it's only fair we all pay for it equally, and not based on how much it hurts to do so.

Dumb.

You believe the poor should pay the same percentage as the rich. So, you’re fine with the current tax system. I’m not.

 

[gipper]

LOL. WTF man. The poor don’t get back consumption or FICA taxes.

Why bother posting when you aren’t even knowledgeable?

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act, or FICA, requires employers to withhold certain payroll taxes for the benefit of retirees, people with disabilities and children.

FICA taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Employers and employees each pay half the tax withheld. But if your wages exceed a set amount, the tax rates on your income can vary.

And if you’re self-employed, you’re responsible for paying into both Social Security and Medicare. You’ll pay the full amount on your own as self-employment tax.

What Are FICA Taxes? | Credit Karma Tax®

Apparently you’re unaware that FICA and consumption taxes hit the poor hard, while not affecting the rich at all. Please think.

What consumption taxes do you speak of, state taxes? Ours is 8 cents on the dollar for state and county. I don't know of anybody going homeless over them. If you spend a hundred bucks, that's only eight dollars. You can make that working at McDonald's for one hour. Is eight dollars more important to a poor person than a rich? I'm sure it is. But so is a thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars.

Taxation should not be about who is hurt more, taxation should be about a community pitching in for the services provided equally to all of us.

Look up consumption taxes. They clearly hit the poor much more than the rich.

Taxation should be eliminated, but I’m dreaming. Since we can’t eliminate them, the taxes shouldn’t unfairly hit the poor more than the rich.

Why are you scared to answer this question?
“So you’re thinking Bernie may win because some people have more and earn more than others? Think about that for a minute.
Are you thinking poor people should be exempt from paying “payroll taxes” and “consumption taxes”?”

Clearly I think the poor should pay a lot less in taxes. They shouldn’t pay the same percentage as the rich. Is this a difficult concept for you?

 

[kyzr]

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

The only way to do that is to increase taxes, lower spending, or both. The problem is, both would have a negative effect on our economy.

It's like Walter E Williams once asked: What if I decided to run for Congress, and my platform would be, I will bring no money back to our state, how many of you would actually vote for me?

Our social programs are exemplified by my Raccoon theory. You see a raccoon digging around in your garbage, so in sympathy, you go inside the house and get that quarter ham on a bone you were going to throw out at the end of the week anyhow. The animal eats in delight. Now give it about 20 seconds, and try to take that ham bone back and see what happens to you.

Democrats are well aware of my raccoon theory. That's why they want to keep starting more social programs. They know once instituted, it will be impossible for Democrats or Republicans to remove them--at least not without getting your hand all bit up.

The Debt Bomb would also have a negative effect on the economy. Pick your poison, the Debt Bomb, or higher taxes and less spending.

Please list the "social programs" your raccoons could live without, Welfare, Medicare, Food Stamps (SNAP), farm subsidies, foreign aid?
See post #23 for how I would cut spending and raise taxes to start paying down the Debt. The economy would be fine.

The problem with these social programs is once they are started, they are virtually impossible to remove. They are killing our deficits and debt. What's the Democrat solution to this problem? Create more social programs and increase taxes.

The problem is that there is nowhere to cut unless you piss off the voters. Nobody wants to give up their goodies they've been accustomed to all of their lives. Cut military spending? That would make us more vulnerable to our enemies. China already has a supersonic rocket that we aren't close to creating yet.

Social programs like what? Welfare? Medicaid? Foreign Aid? SNAP (food stamps), Farm subsidies? Please see my post #23 where I put up real numbers. They can be adjusted for the SS & Medicare "fixes" like increasing the salary cap, or gradually raising the retirement age.

As for the latest "arms race", who gave China the cash to develop their military? Who is giving Russia cash for gas to fund their military?
No one is close to the US military. US military spending might even trigger WW3.
An ‘Arms Race in Speed’: Hypersonic Weapons and the Changing Calculus of Battle | Arms Control Association
US successfully flies its newest hypersonic missile on B-52 bomber, Lockheed-Martin says

Let me ask you about your list in post 23. What politician could run on that and get elected? The answer is, nobody. Not one politician could run on your plan and have a chance at coming close to a win. As much as DumBama was loved, or Bill Clinton, if they could get back into politics, perhaps a seat in Congress, they would be voted against in a landslide.

Totally agree. That's why I said that we'd need a "Grace Commission II" to map out the path to fiscal sanity. Then we'd need a bi-partisan Bill to implement the changes. There are items that BOTH parties hate. But if we don't want to get buried in Debt we need to get serious about the Budget Deficit before its too late.

Your plan to avoid the financial system collapse due to the $30T...$40T....$50T in DEBT?

 

[sparky]

I think, a fair society is where everybody pitches in equally

The flip side being we are all served equally



Wealth inequality in the United States - Wikipedia

~S~

 

[kyzr]

I think, a fair society is where everybody pitches in equally

The flip side being we are all served equally


Wealth inequality in the United States - Wikipedia


~S~

Good charts. My recommended changes are listed in post #23. But a few obvious changes are:
1. Capital gains goes to normal income
2. Add a 3% VAT so the bottom 50% pays 6% instead of 3%.
3. "Fix" SS & Medicare
4. Cut spending
5. Hire a "Grace Commission II" to eliminate loop holes in the tax code and find tax revenue.