Thanks to Obama Policies, DOW is up 8,000 points from Bush debacle

[Papageorgio]

If the thread is still here when I come back from covering my short on the DOW

Still no answers, all he has is lies and more lies.

 

[oldfart]

All correct in my opinion except for the "monetary policy" part. The $80 Billion per month being created by the Federal Reserve is stimulus. While it's true that there is no budgetary accounting for it, there is most certainly a cost.

Traditional monetary theory has no easy classification for QE. At the zero lower bound traditional monetary theory, working through interest rates, is not functional and fiscal stimulus is not politically possible. Therefore the Fed has tried non-traditional monetary measures. I think it's fair to say that whatever good they may have achieved, they are not a good substitute for robust fiscal policy.

That said, the Fed's balance sheet and the Treasury's budget are two different animals. As I said, there is no direct effect on the deficit. Further, virtually all of the infusion from bond buying (what you are calling "stimulus") has gone to excess reserves at the Fed. Since this infusion has not left the banking system and entered the real economy, I don't see how it has much effect beyond a psychological one. I find it ironic that those who rail against the deficit and QE see no message when the markets have a panic attack when the Fed hints that at sometime the Fed will start reducing QE. What are they afraid of, losing the 0.25% per annum on their excess reserves?

I fail to see a cost to QE. The excess reserves will be reeled in by reversing how they were pushed out. A couple of conservative think tanks have looked at the issue and generally come to the conclusion that there does not seem to be any major problem in doing so. The Fed will sell bonds and soak up reserves, reducing possible inflationary pressure. But in the current liquidity trap, I don't see much danger of rising interest rates.

The direct cost is inflation. Arbitrarily increasing the money supply dilutes every dollar currently in existence. At $4 Trillion and counting, that's a medium term 4% hit over time so it's negligible (this assumes a value of $100 Trillion total domestic assets). An indirect set of costs is that of propping up the stock market. When earnings take a back seat while liquidity rules, we are already paying that cost in missing capital appreciation for innovative enterprises. We will pay the brunt of the cost when a robust economy causes sinking equity values due to discontinuing QE. At that point the $4 Trillion out of the total market cap of $18 Trillion will be much more significant, possibly 20% depending on the previous integration of this expansion through inflation.

I don't necessarily disagree with this approach, but there are costs involved with expanding the money supply to prop up equities.

First, I am pretty skeptical of using QE to inflate financial markets. It smells like a bubble to me, and that is a real danger.

But right now the infusion is sitting in the $2 trillion of excess reserves at the Fed, so there is no inflationary effect. The monetary base has expanded, but not the money supply ( at least not proportionately). We are not even reaching the Fed's too modest target for inflation. Severe inflation has been just around the corner (at least according to Feldman) for five years now. In predictions there has to be a difference between late and never.

While the level of the public debt has been increasing, the burden of the debt, measured by payments of interest on the debt, is actually going DOWN. In addition to "Operation Twist" as we refinance debt the average interest rate drops.

I don't think QE is having any adverse effect on capital formation. Interest rates are low and banks have plenty of reserves to lend out. The fact that they are not lending is attributable to a lot of things, none of which have to do with monetary policy.

 

[Edgetho]

If the thread is still here when I come back from covering my short on the DOW

Still no answers, all he has is lies and more lies.

Name me a truthful dimocrap on this Board.

Seriously. Name one for me.

Name one you trust to be honest and honorable and truthful in his/her answers and debates.

Please.

ETA:
I'm not going to argue with you about it. I just want to know if you know one.

 

[Edgetho]

If the thread is still here when I come back from covering my short on the DOW

Still no answers, all he has is lies and more lies.

Name me a truthful dimocrap on this Board.

Seriously. Name one for me.

Name one you trust to be honest and honorable and truthful in his/her answers and debates.

Please.

ETA:
I'm not going to argue with you about it. I just want to know if you know one.

I remember when Message Boards first became popular around 1999-2000, I used to have some really great debates with some bright, articulate and honest libs.

Not here, on another Board. It was fun.

But then... They disappeared. From everywhere. They just don't seem to exist anymore.

So what we're left is pathological liars and fuckfaces who will look you right in the eye and tell you a bald-faced lie and then get pissed when you call them on it. Like, "I know I'm lying but I have a right to lie because what I believe is superior to what you believe and because I'm superior to you and because of that I have the right to be dishonest and besides that it's not really dishonest if it helps to bring about the Utopia I am aiming for and you're all bad people anyway"

So I'll ask the Patriotic Members of the Board.... Name me an honest libtard.

Not gonna argue with you about it. I just wanna know if anybody here thinks there's a libtard on the Board that is honest.

Just one, please.

Anybody?

Only Conservatives need answer. Liars lie

 

[drivebymedia]

Actually closer to 9,000 - but why quibble.

America's 401K's and IRA's have doubled under Obama policies.


Excellent!

Obama controls the NYSE now? Wow...

Didn't know that....

Thanks, imbecile.

Well, imbecile, I had forgotten how much Obama controlled the NYSE, until your friendly tea baggers reminded us today with this thread:

"Thanks To Obama's Failed Fiscal Policies- Stock Market is Tanking"

I'm not sure where they find it 'tanking' but if Obama caused it to 'tank' he also caused it to go up 8,000 points.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Lovebears65]

Actually closer to 9,000 - but why quibble.

America's 401K's and IRA's have doubled under Obama policies.


Excellent!

How is he debt under Obama ..

Student Loan debt has exploded, but overall household debt other than that is down.

Individuals are Deleveraging while the Government piles on more debt.

This is not going to end well.

wasnt talking about household debt, I am talking about our NATIONAL debt.. which has grown by how much since Obama took office we all almost to 7T dollars under from JUST Obama and he is not even done yet

 

[Vandalshandle]

...and the best part of it is that the best performers since the 2006 crash that occurred under the Bush administration is health insurers, which the Tea Party claimed would be driven out of business. My 2008 investment in Health insurers' mutual funds have doubled!

 

[drivebymedia]

But then... They disappeared. From everywhere. They just don't seem to exist anymore

Talking to a rock is like .... talking to a rock... boring

But those of us who love to throw zingers at rocks are here.

Any questions?

 

[drivebymedia]

I am talking about our NATIONAL debt.. which has grown by how much since Obama took office we all almost to 7T dollars under from JUST Obama and he is not even done yet

Using Congress' "Continuing Resolution", Government has been operating on Bush's 2009 budget, since Republicans have blocked every Obama budget proposal.

Obama would like to change, but Republicans are sticking with Bush's 2009 budget.

And Republicans own every penny of today's debt.

Sad ...

 

[Papageorgio]

I am talking about our NATIONAL debt.. which has grown by how much since Obama took office we all almost to 7T dollars under from JUST Obama and he is not even done yet

Using Congress' "Continuing Resolution", Government has been operating on Bush's 2009 budget, since Republicans have blocked every Obama budget proposal.

Obama would like to change, but Republicans are sticking with Bush's 2009 budget.

And Republicans own every penny of today's debt.

Sad ...

I think you are wrong, because the Obama budget was rejected in the Senate under the Democratic Party's control. They have not blocked anything. The Democratic senate has, they have yet to bring a budget to the table.

The Senate rejected Obama's 2010 budget 99-0.
The Senate rejected Obama's 2011 budget 97-0.
The Senate rejected Obama's 2012 budget 99-0.
The Senate rejected Obama's 2010 budget 99-0.

Got anymore lies?

Still haven't answered the question of which tax policy that Bush put into play directly moved business out of the US?

So far you are getting your ass kicked!

 

[Papageorgio]

I am talking about our NATIONAL debt.. which has grown by how much since Obama took office we all almost to 7T dollars under from JUST Obama and he is not even done yet

Using Congress' "Continuing Resolution", Government has been operating on Bush's 2009 budget, since Republicans have blocked every Obama budget proposal.

Obama would like to change, but Republicans are sticking with Bush's 2009 budget.

And Republicans own every penny of today's debt.

Sad ...

So the deficit spending being cut in half is the Republicans doing?

 

[Claudette]

Gotta love the Op's "Bush's debacle."

Like the Dems had absolutely nothing to do with it and are saving the day.

Excuse me while I stand over here and LMAO.

 

[KevinWestern]

I am talking about our NATIONAL debt.. which has grown by how much since Obama took office we all almost to 7T dollars under from JUST Obama and he is not even done yet

Using Congress' "Continuing Resolution", Government has been operating on Bush's 2009 budget, since Republicans have blocked every Obama budget proposal.

Obama would like to change, but Republicans are sticking with Bush's 2009 budget.

And Republicans own every penny of today's debt.

Sad ...

Drive - I've asked you a few times. Were there Democratic Congresspeople who were able to legislate and vote on laws during the Bush W. years?

Point I'm getting at is that you seem to attribute many problems to just "Bush", as if he was sort of a dictator figure during that time. Isn't this a sort of simplistic and flawed way of thinking?

.

 

[Redfish]

I am talking about our NATIONAL debt.. which has grown by how much since Obama took office we all almost to 7T dollars under from JUST Obama and he is not even done yet

Using Congress' "Continuing Resolution", Government has been operating on Bush's 2009 budget, since Republicans have blocked every Obama budget proposal.

Obama would like to change, but Republicans are sticking with Bush's 2009 budget.

And Republicans own every penny of today's debt.

Sad ...

Bullshit! Obama has proposed ONE budget bill in 5 years and it was voted down by the democrat controlled senate 98-2.

the house has passed a budget bill every year, but the partisan asshole Reid would not let a single one be debated or voted on in the senate.

Obama and the dems own the current mess, they have shut the republicans out of the budget process just like they shut them out of the obamacare vote.

This is Obama's fiscal mess--------Its all on him and the dems. face reality

 

[deltex1]

Actually closer to 9,000 - but why quibble.

America's 401K's and IRA's have doubled under Obama policies.


Excellent!

You are such a kidder...

 

[Yurt]

It's awesome for people like me. I don't see how this helps the little guy like you, but great for the financial industry.

If you had a 401K or IRA - like we little guys do ... you saw them drop 50% under Bush, and rise 80% under Obama.

Do the math and go open a retirement account - like we little guys!

to be honest about it, neither president had anything to do with it. But, the president gets the credit or the blame. Thats the way it works.

exactly and you won't here driveby giving bush credit for the highest dow in history at the time

 

[Lovebears65]

I am talking about our NATIONAL debt.. which has grown by how much since Obama took office we all almost to 7T dollars under from JUST Obama and he is not even done yet

Using Congress' "Continuing Resolution", Government has been operating on Bush's 2009 budget, since Republicans have blocked every Obama budget proposal.

Obama would like to change, but Republicans are sticking with Bush's 2009 budget.

And Republicans own every penny of today's debt.

Sad ...

Dems have been controlling washington since 2006 nice try. You guys have had 2/3 up there since then . So if you want to blame anyone you better look at the Dems in Washington

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Actually closer to 9,000 - but why quibble.

America's 401K's and IRA's have doubled under Obama policies.


Excellent!

Yet another one of Obammadummy failures!

Thanks OBamma!

 

[drivebymedia]

exactly and you won't here driveby giving bush credit for the highest dow in history at the time

Do you give credit to Herbert Hoover for having the highest DOW at the time?

I think not ....

 

[chikenwing]

It's awesome for people like me. I don't see how this helps the little guy like you, but great for the financial industry.

If you had a 401K or IRA - like we little guys do ... you saw them drop 50% under Bush, and rise 80% under Obama.

Do the math and go open a retirement account - like we little guys!

Who much did it go up under Bush also??

The US enjoyed the second largest ever economic expansion under Bush,but details like that are kryptonit for simpletons like yourself.