The bald-faced lie Repub counsel Caster told exemplifies the problem.

[berg80]

Pentagon official offers evidence Ukrainians were aware of aid hold earlier
Pentagon official offers evidence Ukrainians were aware of aid hold earlier

Laura Cooper shared some startling information during her opening statement in Wednesday’s impeachment inquiry hearings: evidence that Ukrainian officials may have known about a hold on U.S. assistance well before news of it broke in late August.

The Pentagon official said that as early as July 25 — the same day President Donald Trump spoke to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky — her staffers received two emails indicating the Ukrainians were aware of the hold.

The revelations could undermine efforts by Republicans to paint Ukrainians as being ignorant of a hold on the aid, and thus arguing that they could not have felt pressure to conduct investigations of Trump’s political rivals as a result.

“My staff showed me two unclassified emails that they received from the State Department,” she said. “One was received on July 25th, at 2:31 P.M. That email said that the Ukrainian embassy and House Foreign Affairs Committee are asking about security assistance.”

 

[iceberg]

you are simply incapable of having a reasoned debate. your bias is like a neon shirt screaming LOOK AT ME I TAKE SPINNING CLASSES.

How does any of that address the issue that Repub counsel Caster told a lie regarding the timing of Ukraine's knowledge about military aid being withheld? A lie Trumper's believe. A lie preventing us from have a reasoned debate about whether Trump's offenses are impeachable.

if we're going to get into lies YOUR SIDE believes, we're going to be here all day.

"we didn't spy on congress" OOPS - they did
"we didn't misuse the steele report" OOPS - they did
"no classified mail went through my server" OOPS - it did

when you have equal opportunity of lies, let me know. til then, phuc off.

How does any of that address the issue that Repub counsel Caster told a lie regarding the timing of Ukraine's knowledge about military aid being withheld? A lie Trumper's believe. A lie preventing us from have a reasoned debate about whether Trump's offenses are impeachable.

BTW, these.........."we didn't spy on congress" OOPS - they did
"we didn't misuse the steele report" OOPS - they did..........are factually incorrect as proven by multiple investigations.

what is correct is you're a tool and a troll.

later.

How does any of that address the issue that Repub counsel Caster told a lie regarding the timing of Ukraine's knowledge about military aid being withheld? A lie Trumper's believe. A lie preventing us from have a reasoned debate about whether Trump's offenses are impeachable.

frankly i don't give a rats unholy turd in a moose shitstorm about your concern for a potential lie when you obviously don't give a rats ass about lies in general. just the ones that impact you in a negative way. if you like em you ignore 'em like i am about to ignore your nile river of diarrhea you put out.

so when you care about all lies, you may have a point. when you only care when 1 person does it, i simply don't care.

 

[berg80]

As with all threads based on indisputable factual content, eventually Trumpette's give up trying to sling their bullshit.

 

[berg80]

How does any of that address the issue that Repub counsel Caster told a lie regarding the timing of Ukraine's knowledge about military aid being withheld? A lie Trumper's believe. A lie preventing us from have a reasoned debate about whether Trump's offenses are impeachable.

if we're going to get into lies YOUR SIDE believes, we're going to be here all day.

"we didn't spy on congress" OOPS - they did
"we didn't misuse the steele report" OOPS - they did
"no classified mail went through my server" OOPS - it did

when you have equal opportunity of lies, let me know. til then, phuc off.

How does any of that address the issue that Repub counsel Caster told a lie regarding the timing of Ukraine's knowledge about military aid being withheld? A lie Trumper's believe. A lie preventing us from have a reasoned debate about whether Trump's offenses are impeachable.

BTW, these.........."we didn't spy on congress" OOPS - they did
"we didn't misuse the steele report" OOPS - they did..........are factually incorrect as proven by multiple investigations.

what is correct is you're a tool and a troll.

later.

How does any of that address the issue that Repub counsel Caster told a lie regarding the timing of Ukraine's knowledge about military aid being withheld? A lie Trumper's believe. A lie preventing us from have a reasoned debate about whether Trump's offenses are impeachable.

frankly i don't give a rats unholy turd in a moose shitstorm about your concern for a potential lie when you obviously don't give a rats ass about lies in general. just the ones that impact you in a negative way. if you like em you ignore 'em like i am about to ignore your nile river of diarrhea you put out.

so when you care about all lies, you may have a point. when you only care when 1 person does it, i simply don't care.

I'd be glad to address the lies you posted on another thread of your making. This one is about the lie Caster told and the belief in it by Trumpette's.

 

[jc456]

Your argument falls apart when Zelensky had 5 meetings with US reps and never asked once about the US aid.
The democrats cannot connect the dots that the Ukraine knew that the aid was being delayed, if so why not make the announcement about an investigation into Burisma?
Don't call Zelensky a liar, he said multiple times that he felt no pressure to do anything.

“We had this information. It was definitely mentioned there were some issues,” Olena Zerkal told The New York Times in a report published Tuesday.

House investigators are probing allegations that Trump withheld nearly $400 million in military aid in an effort to persuade Ukraine to announce politically beneficial investigations. Trump and Republican lawmakers have questioned the accusations, claiming that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky couldn’t have felt pressured because he wasn’t aware of a freeze in security aid.

Zerkal’s account is matched by Laura Cooper, a U.S. deputy assistant secretary of Defense for Russia and Ukraine who testified before the House Intelligence Committee in November. In her testimony, Cooper said that her staff received emails on July 25 in which the State Department said the Ukrainian Embassy and House Foreign Affairs Committee were “asking about security assistance.”
.............................................................................................................................................................
It isn't often that a Trumper proves my point in the very first reply. So, thanks. You're making this easy.

for your information, the president has that authority. to hold money. It's within his job description. you know that right? Let's see how far left you run.

 

[berg80]

Your argument falls apart when Zelensky had 5 meetings with US reps and never asked once about the US aid.
The democrats cannot connect the dots that the Ukraine knew that the aid was being delayed, if so why not make the announcement about an investigation into Burisma?
Don't call Zelensky a liar, he said multiple times that he felt no pressure to do anything.

“We had this information. It was definitely mentioned there were some issues,” Olena Zerkal told The New York Times in a report published Tuesday.

House investigators are probing allegations that Trump withheld nearly $400 million in military aid in an effort to persuade Ukraine to announce politically beneficial investigations. Trump and Republican lawmakers have questioned the accusations, claiming that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky couldn’t have felt pressured because he wasn’t aware of a freeze in security aid.

Zerkal’s account is matched by Laura Cooper, a U.S. deputy assistant secretary of Defense for Russia and Ukraine who testified before the House Intelligence Committee in November. In her testimony, Cooper said that her staff received emails on July 25 in which the State Department said the Ukrainian Embassy and House Foreign Affairs Committee were “asking about security assistance.”
.............................................................................................................................................................
It isn't often that a Trumper proves my point in the very first reply. So, thanks. You're making this easy.

for your information, the president has that authority. to hold money. It's within his job description. you know that right? Let's see how far left you run.

If any prez is not going to disperse funds authorized by Congress the admin must notify Congress.

Trump’s Hold on Ukrainian Military Aid was Illegal
Trump’s Hold on Ukrainian Military Aid was Illegal

BTW, your false assertion does not address the thrust of my original post. Anything else?

 

[jc456]

Your argument falls apart when Zelensky had 5 meetings with US reps and never asked once about the US aid.
The democrats cannot connect the dots that the Ukraine knew that the aid was being delayed, if so why not make the announcement about an investigation into Burisma?
Don't call Zelensky a liar, he said multiple times that he felt no pressure to do anything.

“We had this information. It was definitely mentioned there were some issues,” Olena Zerkal told The New York Times in a report published Tuesday.

House investigators are probing allegations that Trump withheld nearly $400 million in military aid in an effort to persuade Ukraine to announce politically beneficial investigations. Trump and Republican lawmakers have questioned the accusations, claiming that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky couldn’t have felt pressured because he wasn’t aware of a freeze in security aid.

Zerkal’s account is matched by Laura Cooper, a U.S. deputy assistant secretary of Defense for Russia and Ukraine who testified before the House Intelligence Committee in November. In her testimony, Cooper said that her staff received emails on July 25 in which the State Department said the Ukrainian Embassy and House Foreign Affairs Committee were “asking about security assistance.”
.............................................................................................................................................................
It isn't often that a Trumper proves my point in the very first reply. So, thanks. You're making this easy.

for your information, the president has that authority. to hold money. It's within his job description. you know that right? Let's see how far left you run.

If any prez is not going to disperse funds authorized by Congress the admin must notify Congress.

Trump’s Hold on Ukrainian Military Aid was Illegal
Trump’s Hold on Ukrainian Military Aid was Illegal

BTW, your false assertion does not address the thrust of my original post. Anything else?

bush didn't Clinton didn't and neither did obammy, you seem to be confused.

 

[berg80]

Your argument falls apart when Zelensky had 5 meetings with US reps and never asked once about the US aid.
The democrats cannot connect the dots that the Ukraine knew that the aid was being delayed, if so why not make the announcement about an investigation into Burisma?
Don't call Zelensky a liar, he said multiple times that he felt no pressure to do anything.

“We had this information. It was definitely mentioned there were some issues,” Olena Zerkal told The New York Times in a report published Tuesday.

House investigators are probing allegations that Trump withheld nearly $400 million in military aid in an effort to persuade Ukraine to announce politically beneficial investigations. Trump and Republican lawmakers have questioned the accusations, claiming that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky couldn’t have felt pressured because he wasn’t aware of a freeze in security aid.

Zerkal’s account is matched by Laura Cooper, a U.S. deputy assistant secretary of Defense for Russia and Ukraine who testified before the House Intelligence Committee in November. In her testimony, Cooper said that her staff received emails on July 25 in which the State Department said the Ukrainian Embassy and House Foreign Affairs Committee were “asking about security assistance.”
.............................................................................................................................................................
It isn't often that a Trumper proves my point in the very first reply. So, thanks. You're making this easy.

for your information, the president has that authority. to hold money. It's within his job description. you know that right? Let's see how far left you run.

If any prez is not going to disperse funds authorized by Congress the admin must notify Congress.

Trump’s Hold on Ukrainian Military Aid was Illegal
Trump’s Hold on Ukrainian Military Aid was Illegal

BTW, your false assertion does not address the thrust of my original post. Anything else?

bush didn't Clinton didn't and neither did obammy, you seem to be confused.

Prove it.

"There are two relevant budgetary statutes that are implicated by Trump withholding military aid for Ukraine: apportionment authority and the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). Both laws are intended to restrict the executive branch from undermining Congress’s “power of the purse” under the Constitution.

The Ukraine funding was held up through use of OMB’s apportionment authority. Apportionments are legally binding documents utilized by OMB to ensure agencies spend money effectively and efficiently during the fiscal year. Agencies are prohibited from spending in excess of an apportionment. Under longstanding guidance, apportionments are approved by OMB career officials.

Apportionments cannot change policy decisions reflected in statute; the Government Accountability Office has made clear that “the apportionment process cannot alter or otherwise affect the operation of statutory requirements concerning the availability or use of appropriated funds.”

In addition, any delay of funding potentially implicates the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). Passed in the wake of President Richard Nixon’s refusal to spend lawfully appropriated funding, the ICA restricts the circumstances in which a president can defer spending funds. The ICA’s definition of a “deferral” is broad:

“deferral of budget authority” includes—

(A) withholding or delaying the obligation or expenditure of budget authority (whether by establishing reserves or otherwise) provided for projects or activities; or

(B) any other type of Executive action or inaction which effectively precludes the obligation or expenditure of budget authority, including authority to obligate by contract in advance of appropriations as specifically authorized by law;

Under the ICA, a deferral is only allowable in a few limited circumstances:

Deferrals shall be permissible only—

(1) to provide for contingencies;

(2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or

(3) as specifically provided by law.

No officer or employee of the United States may defer any budget authority for any other purpose.

Trump’s Funding Hold was Illegal

OMB’s hold on military aid was an abuse of its apportionment authority and constituted an illegal deferral. While the Trump administration was well aware of the legal issues with its actions, it ignored them and held up the funding anyway.

During the House Intelligence Committee hearings, a number of witnesses testified that their understanding was that the military aid was withheld in order to pressure Ukraine to open investigations into Trump’s political rivals, including former Vice President Joe Biden. The witnesses who testified to this include Ambassador Bill Taylor, National Security Council (NSC) official Tim Morrison, Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, State Department official David Holmes, Department of Defense (DoD) official Laura Cooper, and NSC official Lt. Col. Alex Vindman (see the Appendix below for specific statements made by each of these witnesses)."

 

[berg80]

"This withholding was also an illegal deferral, because it prevented the Defense Department from spending the funding before it expired. By the middle of September, when Trump finally released the aid, it was too late and the Pentagon was unable to spend all the funding by the end of the fiscal year.

DoD acknowledged this fact when it “alerted Congress that it would not be able to spend all of the money by September 30.” Congress was forced to reappropriate the remaining funding so it could be spent the next year. While this allowed the Pentagon to spend all of the money, it did not eliminate the legal violation that occurred when the Trump administration illegally deferred the spending in the first place.

Even defenders of Trump’s actions have not provided a legally viable reason for withholding the funding. They have argued that Trump withheld the funding because of broad concerns about corruption in Ukraine or that the EU was not providing sufficient support to Ukraine. Neither of these claims holds up under examination. But even if they were the actual reasons for the hold, Trump’s actions would still be illegal.

Deferrals are only allowed to (1) to provide for contingencies; (2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or (3) as specifically provided by law. Neither generalized concerns about corruption in Ukraine nor concerns about E.U. support for Ukraine provide legal justification for a deferral of the funding."