The Bible Tells Us When Jesus Returns - Between Tisha B'Av and Day of Atonement 2029

[Parture]

No what sends people to hell is unforgiveness.

No. What sends people to Hell is rejecting God's forgiveness. Most people will forever reject God's forgiveness. Free will is not truly free if you don't have this free choice.

I believe that all people and all souls will find forgiveness in Christ Jesus.
The symbolism used is that Jesus "descended into hell" in order to reach the unsaved.
So by God's will, eventually all will be forgiven.

Jesus never descended into Hell. He went down to Hades (Hades or Sheol or Soul Sleep is not Hell) the good side to visit in Paradise below Lazarus. Hell is described as being the place where there is not rest day or night for you. And you lock yourself in Hell from the inside. In other words, for eternity you prefer to be in a place devoid of God's presence and love. And so you shall be.

Even now you can see it how you profess a false Christ, which you can do for eternity in Hell, but we can't have anyone with your attitude in Heaven as that would be unhealthy for believers to have you around.

 

[Parture]

Isn't it interesting the year of the 2014/15 Feast Tetrad that the CERN accelerator will come back online in 2015 at twice the energy to smash particles together to see if they can find other hidden particles besides the Higgs boson.

2015 is a Shemita year, the 120th Jubilee year (from 3986 BC when Adam was 18, he was born 4004 BC), and it is a Super Blood Moon over Jerusalem, both at perigee of the moon and the earth's revolution around the sun once year. Amazing!

Higgs Boson and the Super Blood Moon 2015

 

[Parture]

Isn't it interesting the year of the 2014/15 Feast Tetrad that the CERN accelerator will come back online in 2015 at twice the energy to smash particles together to see if they can find other hidden particles besides the Higgs boson.

2015 is a Shemita year, the 120th Jubilee year (from 3986 BC when Adam was 18, he was born 4004 BC), and it is a Super Blood Moon over Jerusalem, both at perigee of the moon and the earth's revolution around the sun once year. Amazing!

Higgs Boson and the Super Blood Moon 2015

This picture looks like the Last Supper at CERN's Large Hadron Collider.

It is also a foreshadowing of the New City which is 1379 miles high with many levels, or how man keeps searching, yet there is still something behind the Standard Model, and something behind that, on and on. We can only see down to the 10^25 level, but we know things are even smaller down to the 10^125 level.

 

[Parture]

The ancient Israelites believed their Messiah would show up on Tisha B'Av. The idea is there are 30 days more from the 1260th day of the Great Trib to 1290th day (Dan. 12.11) for Jesus to judge the nations, then 45 days more to the 1335th day (Dan. 12.12) to set up Israel as the center of all nations at which time He will reign in the 3rd Temple over the nations with His overcomers on earth for 1000 years. His overcomers return with Him when He returns (Jude 14,15).

There are always give or take a day or two those 30 days plus 45 days more from Tisha B'Av to Simchat Torah, after Feast of Trumpets (rapture) and after Day of Atonement (the saved) and after Tabernacles (Jesus tabernacles among people for 1000 years).

What is Simchat Torah? The Torah scroll is removed from the Ark of Covenant. It is a Jewish holiday that celebrates and marks the conclusion of the annual cycle of public Torah readings, and the beginning of a new cycle. 2015 is the 120th Jubilee to conclude the six millennia of God's redemptive design and the ushering in of the millennial kingdom after 7 years plenty and 7 years of the Tribulation.

 

[MaxGrit]

When each person receives a full understanding of the meaning of Jesus, and embraces and agrees to embody this by conscience or heart,
that is when Christ Jesus returns for that person.

That's not what the Bible teaches. Jesus returns to a world in chaos and for the sake of elect. And that most people are going to Hell. That's Christianity. You believe in universalism which is a heresy.

I do believe in inclusion and universal salvation in Christ,
but it is the same Jesus Christ that fundamental Christians believe in.

Your definition of universal salvation is not the same as Christians. Universal atonement is that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Whereas universalists believe everyone gets saved.

Matt. 10.32,33 says that unless you confess who Jesus truly is, He will deny you before the Father in heaven, so clearly you are going to Hell.

And yes, what you are teaching is New Age. New Age adherents are going to Hell.

No what sends people to hell is unforgiveness.

I believe that all people and all souls will find forgiveness in Christ Jesus.
The symbolism used is that Jesus "descended into hell" in order to reach the unsaved.
So by God's will, eventually all will be forgiven.

the bad things that happened in the past due to unforgiveness
will remain in our history. So that will be burned away
but the knowledge will still remain to teach from.
We can never erase the holocausts, wars and genocides
that have happened. They will always exist in time.

The point of Christ Jesus is we break the cycle and do not repeat this.

I don't find New Age people teaching restitution for crimes
and reforming Govt based on Restorative Justice.

So what I am saying is not taught by any New Age people I have met.

Even the preacher who teaches the "Gospel of Inclusion" denies that hell even exists,
which is not what I am saying either.

Hell is real and souls are stuck there until the cycle of sin is broken by
forgiveness so there can be correction, healing and restitution in Christ Jesus.

So if you are talking about people who don't believe hell is real,
that isn't right either.

Hell is real and is caused by unforgiveness.
The one blasphemy, against the Holy Spirit,
that is not forgiven in this world or the next.

A lot of that is just wishful thinking on your part. It's not God's word. Hell is real, and people's punishment lasts forever.

 

[Parture]

When each person receives a full understanding of the meaning of Jesus, and embraces and agrees to embody this by conscience or heart,
that is when Christ Jesus returns for that person.

That's not what the Bible teaches. Jesus returns to a world in chaos and for the sake of elect. And that most people are going to Hell. That's Christianity. You believe in universalism which is a heresy.

I do believe in inclusion and universal salvation in Christ,
but it is the same Jesus Christ that fundamental Christians believe in.

Your definition of universal salvation is not the same as Christians. Universal atonement is that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Whereas universalists believe everyone gets saved.

Matt. 10.32,33 says that unless you confess who Jesus truly is, He will deny you before the Father in heaven, so clearly you are going to Hell.

And yes, what you are teaching is New Age. New Age adherents are going to Hell.

No what sends people to hell is unforgiveness.

I believe that all people and all souls will find forgiveness in Christ Jesus.
The symbolism used is that Jesus "descended into hell" in order to reach the unsaved.
So by God's will, eventually all will be forgiven.

the bad things that happened in the past due to unforgiveness
will remain in our history. So that will be burned away
but the knowledge will still remain to teach from.
We can never erase the holocausts, wars and genocides
that have happened. They will always exist in time.

The point of Christ Jesus is we break the cycle and do not repeat this.

I don't find New Age people teaching restitution for crimes
and reforming Govt based on Restorative Justice.

So what I am saying is not taught by any New Age people I have met.

Even the preacher who teaches the "Gospel of Inclusion" denies that hell even exists,
which is not what I am saying either.

Hell is real and souls are stuck there until the cycle of sin is broken by
forgiveness so there can be correction, healing and restitution in Christ Jesus.

So if you are talking about people who don't believe hell is real,
that isn't right either.

Hell is real and is caused by unforgiveness.
The one blasphemy, against the Holy Spirit,
that is not forgiven in this world or the next.

A lot of that is just wishful thinking on your part. It's not God's word. Hell is real, and people's punishment lasts forever.

But don't feel too bad that you are going to Hell because MaxGrit will join you there since he is a Calvinist, which is just wishful thinking on a pedestal proclaiming pridefully he was irresistibly selected (and not passed over preterioned) instead of coming to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior to be regenerated. Both of you are too selfish to give your life to Christ worshiping a false Christ.

 

[MaxGrit]

When each person receives a full understanding of the meaning of Jesus, and embraces and agrees to embody this by conscience or heart,
that is when Christ Jesus returns for that person.

That's not what the Bible teaches. Jesus returns to a world in chaos and for the sake of elect. And that most people are going to Hell. That's Christianity. You believe in universalism which is a heresy.

I do believe in inclusion and universal salvation in Christ,
but it is the same Jesus Christ that fundamental Christians believe in.

Your definition of universal salvation is not the same as Christians. Universal atonement is that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Whereas universalists believe everyone gets saved.

Matt. 10.32,33 says that unless you confess who Jesus truly is, He will deny you before the Father in heaven, so clearly you are going to Hell.

And yes, what you are teaching is New Age. New Age adherents are going to Hell.

No what sends people to hell is unforgiveness.

I believe that all people and all souls will find forgiveness in Christ Jesus.
The symbolism used is that Jesus "descended into hell" in order to reach the unsaved.
So by God's will, eventually all will be forgiven.

the bad things that happened in the past due to unforgiveness
will remain in our history. So that will be burned away
but the knowledge will still remain to teach from.
We can never erase the holocausts, wars and genocides
that have happened. They will always exist in time.

The point of Christ Jesus is we break the cycle and do not repeat this.

I don't find New Age people teaching restitution for crimes
and reforming Govt based on Restorative Justice.

So what I am saying is not taught by any New Age people I have met.

Even the preacher who teaches the "Gospel of Inclusion" denies that hell even exists,
which is not what I am saying either.

Hell is real and souls are stuck there until the cycle of sin is broken by
forgiveness so there can be correction, healing and restitution in Christ Jesus.

So if you are talking about people who don't believe hell is real,
that isn't right either.

Hell is real and is caused by unforgiveness.
The one blasphemy, against the Holy Spirit,
that is not forgiven in this world or the next.

A lot of that is just wishful thinking on your part. It's not God's word. Hell is real, and people's punishment lasts forever.

But don't feel too bad that you are going to Hell because MaxGrit will join you there since he is a Calvinist, which is just wishful thinking on a pedestal proclaiming pridefully he was irresistibly selected (and not passed over preterioned) instead of coming to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior to be regenerated. Both of you are too selfish to give your life to Christ worshiping a false Christ.

Arminians theology make God into a servant of man. Arminians say that anyone, at anytime, can force the Holy Spirit to come in them, making Him work to regenerate their filthy corpses.

 

[Parture]

Arminians theology make God into a servant of man. Arminians say that anyone, at anytime, can force the Holy Spirit to come in them, making Him work to regenerate their filthy corpses.

Matthew emphasizes God as king, Mark emphasized Jesus as a servant, Luke a man, and John as deity. Jesus says: “Since I, the Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash each other’s feet. I have given you an example to follow. Do as I have done to you.” (John 13:14-15). "For even the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many” (Mark 10:42-45). "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them" (Gen. 3.21).

It makes me sad that you don't know this God. Nobody is forcing the Holy Spirit when the gift of the Holy Spirit is offered to use all. When your mother buys you a present for Christmas, are you forcing her to do it? Of course not. What work is there in that?

But you do work so hard to declare yourself on a pedestal that you were irresistibly selected. That's why Calvinists teach "perseverance of the saints" whereas OSAS Arminians in the 5th point teach "preservation of the saints." The Calvinists doesn't know if he is saved or not so all he can do is work for it by propping his flesh up on a pedestal and PERSEVERING (5th point of Calvinism).

Bottom line: the Calvinist MaxGrit is unwilling to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated so he is going to Hell. His flesh prefers pretentiously to believe he was irresistibly selected and not passed over. Just like Hitler's irresistibly selected Aryan race claims the Jews were born for Hell (i.e. preterioned).

Calvinism is one the sickest cults on the planet today. If it wasn't for the beliefs of that murderous Protestant Pope of Geneva John Calvin killing so many Christians, Hitler would not have springboarded off that ideology to do what he did.

Would Jesus do that?

 

[emilynghiem]

When each person receives a full understanding of the meaning of Jesus, and embraces and agrees to embody this by conscience or heart,
that is when Christ Jesus returns for that person.

That's not what the Bible teaches. Jesus returns to a world in chaos and for the sake of elect. And that most people are going to Hell. That's Christianity. You believe in universalism which is a heresy.

I do believe in inclusion and universal salvation in Christ,
but it is the same Jesus Christ that fundamental Christians believe in.

Your definition of universal salvation is not the same as Christians. Universal atonement is that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Whereas universalists believe everyone gets saved.

Matt. 10.32,33 says that unless you confess who Jesus truly is, He will deny you before the Father in heaven, so clearly you are going to Hell.

And yes, what you are teaching is New Age. New Age adherents are going to Hell.

No what sends people to hell is unforgiveness.

I believe that all people and all souls will find forgiveness in Christ Jesus.
The symbolism used is that Jesus "descended into hell" in order to reach the unsaved.
So by God's will, eventually all will be forgiven.

the bad things that happened in the past due to unforgiveness
will remain in our history. So that will be burned away
but the knowledge will still remain to teach from.
We can never erase the holocausts, wars and genocides
that have happened. They will always exist in time.

The point of Christ Jesus is we break the cycle and do not repeat this.

I don't find New Age people teaching restitution for crimes
and reforming Govt based on Restorative Justice.

So what I am saying is not taught by any New Age people I have met.

Even the preacher who teaches the "Gospel of Inclusion" denies that hell even exists,
which is not what I am saying either.

Hell is real and souls are stuck there until the cycle of sin is broken by
forgiveness so there can be correction, healing and restitution in Christ Jesus.

So if you are talking about people who don't believe hell is real,
that isn't right either.

Hell is real and is caused by unforgiveness.
The one blasphemy, against the Holy Spirit,
that is not forgiven in this world or the next.

A lot of that is just wishful thinking on your part. It's not God's word. Hell is real, and people's punishment lasts forever.

But don't feel too bad that you are going to Hell because MaxGrit will join you there since he is a Calvinist, which is just wishful thinking on a pedestal proclaiming pridefully he was irresistibly selected (and not passed over preterioned) instead of coming to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior to be regenerated. Both of you are too selfish to give your life to Christ worshiping a false Christ.

Arminians theology make God into a servant of man. Arminians say that anyone, at anytime, can force the Holy Spirit to come in them, making Him work to regenerate their filthy corpses.

Hi Parture and MaxGrit
of the cases I have heard of people restored to life and health from death,
These were done by God's grace and will
By forgiveness in Christ Jesus. Some ppl can invoke Jesus Authority to cast out demons but this is done by ordering the demons to obey Christ. Nobody is ordering God Christ or the Holy Spirit to do anything. We can ask help to forgive and to receive God's will and healing grace, but God wills the outcome not man. The cases of healing and restoration to life I know of are all based On receiving God's perfect will and agreeing on it, not trying to dictate it.

 

[emilynghiem]

When each person receives a full understanding of the meaning of Jesus, and embraces and agrees to embody this by conscience or heart,
that is when Christ Jesus returns for that person.

That's not what the Bible teaches. Jesus returns to a world in chaos and for the sake of elect. And that most people are going to Hell. That's Christianity. You believe in universalism which is a heresy.

I do believe in inclusion and universal salvation in Christ,
but it is the same Jesus Christ that fundamental Christians believe in.

Your definition of universal salvation is not the same as Christians. Universal atonement is that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Whereas universalists believe everyone gets saved.

Matt. 10.32,33 says that unless you confess who Jesus truly is, He will deny you before the Father in heaven, so clearly you are going to Hell.

And yes, what you are teaching is New Age. New Age adherents are going to Hell.

No what sends people to hell is unforgiveness.

I believe that all people and all souls will find forgiveness in Christ Jesus.
The symbolism used is that Jesus "descended into hell" in order to reach the unsaved.
So by God's will, eventually all will be forgiven.

the bad things that happened in the past due to unforgiveness
will remain in our history. So that will be burned away
but the knowledge will still remain to teach from.
We can never erase the holocausts, wars and genocides
that have happened. They will always exist in time.

The point of Christ Jesus is we break the cycle and do not repeat this.

I don't find New Age people teaching restitution for crimes
and reforming Govt based on Restorative Justice.

So what I am saying is not taught by any New Age people I have met.

Even the preacher who teaches the "Gospel of Inclusion" denies that hell even exists,
which is not what I am saying either.

Hell is real and souls are stuck there until the cycle of sin is broken by
forgiveness so there can be correction, healing and restitution in Christ Jesus.

So if you are talking about people who don't believe hell is real,
that isn't right either.

Hell is real and is caused by unforgiveness.
The one blasphemy, against the Holy Spirit,
that is not forgiven in this world or the next.

A lot of that is just wishful thinking on your part. It's not God's word. Hell is real, and people's punishment lasts forever.

I Said I agree that hell is real.
Where we disagree is that the evil is burned away in the lake of fire.
Evil cannot last eternally as only God's love and truth is eternal. So anything less than God's perfect will cannot withstand in the presence of God and must submit.
Only God is supreme.
God always gets his way or else he is not.in control of man's destiny.

And it is not God's will that a single soul should perish.

That's why the sacrifice of Christ allows Salvation for all who will receive, by free will, which is still God's will that we will all come to accept.

Hell is real but it shall be overcome
because it only takes two or three agreeing in Christ Jesus for God's will to be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.

All shall be forgiven in Christ Jesus
Who came not to judge or condemn
But to save the world. Even when we go through judgment it is to correct all wrongs in Christ Jesus,
That every knee shall bow, every heart and mind shall receive, every tongue confess thetruth so we are all set free, made one andperfect in Christ Jesus as even our heavenly father is perfect. Amen

 

[Parture]

of the cases I have heard of people restored to life and health from death,These were done by God's grace and will
By forgiveness in Christ Jesus. Some ppl can invoke Jesus Authority to cast out demons but this is done by ordering the demons to obey Christ. Nobody is ordering God Christ or the Holy Spirit to do anything. We can ask help to forgive and to receive God's will and healing grace, but God wills the outcome not man. The cases of healing and restoration to life I know of are all based On receiving God's perfect will and agreeing on it, not trying to dictate it.

MaxGrit is a Calvinist so he insists he is a robot.

 

[Hollie]

When each person receives a full understanding of the meaning of Jesus, and embraces and agrees to embody this by conscience or heart,
that is when Christ Jesus returns for that person.

That's not what the Bible teaches. Jesus returns to a world in chaos and for the sake of elect. And that most people are going to Hell. That's Christianity. You believe in universalism which is a heresy.

I do believe in inclusion and universal salvation in Christ,
but it is the same Jesus Christ that fundamental Christians believe in.

Your definition of universal salvation is not the same as Christians. Universal atonement is that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Whereas universalists believe everyone gets saved.

Matt. 10.32,33 says that unless you confess who Jesus truly is, He will deny you before the Father in heaven, so clearly you are going to Hell.

And yes, what you are teaching is New Age. New Age adherents are going to Hell.

No what sends people to hell is unforgiveness.

I believe that all people and all souls will find forgiveness in Christ Jesus.
The symbolism used is that Jesus "descended into hell" in order to reach the unsaved.
So by God's will, eventually all will be forgiven.

the bad things that happened in the past due to unforgiveness
will remain in our history. So that will be burned away
but the knowledge will still remain to teach from.
We can never erase the holocausts, wars and genocides
that have happened. They will always exist in time.

The point of Christ Jesus is we break the cycle and do not repeat this.

I don't find New Age people teaching restitution for crimes
and reforming Govt based on Restorative Justice.

So what I am saying is not taught by any New Age people I have met.

Even the preacher who teaches the "Gospel of Inclusion" denies that hell even exists,
which is not what I am saying either.

Hell is real and souls are stuck there until the cycle of sin is broken by
forgiveness so there can be correction, healing and restitution in Christ Jesus.

So if you are talking about people who don't believe hell is real,
that isn't right either.

Hell is real and is caused by unforgiveness.
The one blasphemy, against the Holy Spirit,
that is not forgiven in this world or the next.

A lot of that is just wishful thinking on your part. It's not God's word. Hell is real, and people's punishment lasts forever.

That you live your life in trembling fear of angry gawds invented by ancient, superstitious people is no reason to expect others to accept your maladjusted personality.

 

[Taz]

My favorite piece of evidence is most scholars concede Paul wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 in which cites the gospel, resurrection appearances, his own eyewitness account, spent 15 days with Peter, and with John and James too. The Creed he cites that he received before the Apostles he was with, goes all the way back to the cross as he was converted 2 years after the cross. There is no naturalistic explanation to explain this away.

Also, Luke wrote a biography of Paul in Acts, but he makes no mention of his death. Paul died 65 AD in the Neronian persecutions. So not only did he write all his epistles before then, but Luke said Acts was part two of his former work of Luke. So that places Acts around 55 AD, Luke around 45 AD. And since Luke took from Mark, that places Mark around 35 AD just 2 years after the cross. Not only that but since Mark was good pals with Peter that places 1 & 2 Peter quite early also.

What scholars? You have no proof, zero, that Paul ever wrote anything since nothing for his era has ever been found, dated and attributed to him. Go ahead, try to find something, with a link...

 

[Taz]

This source has 18 fragments from the 2nd century,

A First Century Fragment and 18 Second Century New Testament Fragments

Remember, no person in antiquity has still surviving papyri for that person that is within 300 years later, some over 1000 years, like Iliad. But for Jesus we have still surviving papyri within a generation.

For Jesus we have 45 sources, more than any ten figures combined. Take for example Tiberius who died 4 years after Jesus. He had 9 sources. Of the 45 sources for Jesus, 17 are non-Christian sources. Of those 17, 12 speak of His death, 12 of resurrection, and 7 of His deity. Of the 45 sources, 24 speak of His resurrection.

This really is unprecedented. Jesus is the most documented person in antiquity. Nobody even comes close. So then you realize Jesus was, but He presented Himself to the Apostles as resurrected. Nobody can resurrect themselves unless they are God. Jesus is God the Son. Salvation is on you through Him. If you don't accept His redeeming solution to your sin problem, He has no choice but to send you to Hell. I hope you give your life to Christ now.

The papyri are dated several generations after the facts, and that's just FRAGMENTS of the earliest finds. Not even a whole fucking sentence! Nothing can be proven to have been written during the presumed authors' lifetime. Now you know.

The papyri are dated within a generation of the Apostles. John was still alive 95 AD. These papyri are more than just one sentence. Sometimes they are chapters, books, or just a few paragraphs. Daniel B. Wallace has a whole manuscript recently, and some more papyri, found from the late 1st century. You can quote the early church fathers quoting all the verses from the NT except 11 verses. Obviously what they are quoting came before their quoting it. Nothing in antiquity has sources so close to their events as do we have for the NT. It also depends where you calculate a generation from. Since John wrote Revelation 95 AD then someone who is 10 years old at the time will be within a generation in 180 AD. Nobody in antiquity has still surviving papyri so close to their events. The Bible holds the highest standards. So according to you then Plato, Aristotle, Julius Caesar and Tiberius never existed. Nobody takes your view. No historian gives you any respect.

If the papyri are dated " to within a generation of the Apostles", then you admit that nothing exists from the hand of the actual Apostles. Good, That's progress.

 

[teddyearp]

I quit watching this thread some 13 pages ago. Max you have some patience.

 

[teddyearp]

Pasture, I have a simple question for you.

What will bring you more joy when you get to heaven. To see myself, maxgrit, and others burning in Hell or to find out that we were Christians all along and in heaven with you?

Short answer please.

 

[Parture]

This source has 18 fragments from the 2nd century,

A First Century Fragment and 18 Second Century New Testament Fragments

Remember, no person in antiquity has still surviving papyri for that person that is within 300 years later, some over 1000 years, like Iliad. But for Jesus we have still surviving papyri within a generation.

For Jesus we have 45 sources, more than any ten figures combined. Take for example Tiberius who died 4 years after Jesus. He had 9 sources. Of the 45 sources for Jesus, 17 are non-Christian sources. Of those 17, 12 speak of His death, 12 of resurrection, and 7 of His deity. Of the 45 sources, 24 speak of His resurrection.

This really is unprecedented. Jesus is the most documented person in antiquity. Nobody even comes close. So then you realize Jesus was, but He presented Himself to the Apostles as resurrected. Nobody can resurrect themselves unless they are God. Jesus is God the Son. Salvation is on you through Him. If you don't accept His redeeming solution to your sin problem, He has no choice but to send you to Hell. I hope you give your life to Christ now.

The papyri are dated several generations after the facts, and that's just FRAGMENTS of the earliest finds. Not even a whole fucking sentence! Nothing can be proven to have been written during the presumed authors' lifetime. Now you know.

The papyri are dated within a generation of the Apostles. John was still alive 95 AD. These papyri are more than just one sentence. Sometimes they are chapters, books, or just a few paragraphs. Daniel B. Wallace has a whole manuscript recently, and some more papyri, found from the late 1st century. You can quote the early church fathers quoting all the verses from the NT except 11 verses. Obviously what they are quoting came before their quoting it. Nothing in antiquity has sources so close to their events as do we have for the NT. It also depends where you calculate a generation from. Since John wrote Revelation 95 AD then someone who is 10 years old at the time will be within a generation in 180 AD. Nobody in antiquity has still surviving papyri so close to their events. The Bible holds the highest standards. So according to you then Plato, Aristotle, Julius Caesar and Tiberius never existed. Nobody takes your view. No historian gives you any respect.

If the papyri are dated " to within a generation of the Apostles", then you admit that nothing exists from the hand of the actual Apostles. Good, That's progress.

The reason there is no surviving papyri from the middle of the 1st century and earlier is simply because they don't get preserved. That's why you can't find any papyri from anyone in antiquity for a good 300 to 500 years after, except for Jesus which was within a generation. And even closer than that for Paul's travels in the 50s and 60s.

 

[Parture]

My favorite piece of evidence is most scholars concede Paul wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 in which cites the gospel, resurrection appearances, his own eyewitness account, spent 15 days with Peter, and with John and James too. The Creed he cites that he received before the Apostles he was with, goes all the way back to the cross as he was converted 2 years after the cross. There is no naturalistic explanation to explain this away.

Also, Luke wrote a biography of Paul in Acts, but he makes no mention of his death. Paul died 65 AD in the Neronian persecutions. So not only did he write all his epistles before then, but Luke said Acts was part two of his former work of Luke. So that places Acts around 55 AD, Luke around 45 AD. And since Luke took from Mark, that places Mark around 35 AD just 2 years after the cross. Not only that but since Mark was good pals with Peter that places 1 & 2 Peter quite early also.

What scholars? You have no proof, zero, that Paul ever wrote anything since nothing for his era has ever been found, dated and attributed to him. Go ahead, try to find something, with a link...

12 Historical Facts (Most Critical Scholars Believe These 12 items)

1. Jesus died by crucifixion.

2. He was buried.

3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.

4. The tomb was empty (the most contested).

5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus (the most important proof).

6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.

7. The resurrection was the central message.

8. They preached the message of Jesus’ resurrection in Jerusalem.

9. The Church was born and grew.

10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.

11. James was converted to the faith when he saw the resurrected Jesus (James was a family skeptic).

12. Paul was converted to the faith (Paul was an outsider skeptic).

What Do Most Scholars Believe?

In The Case for the Real Jesus by Lee Strobel (p. 112), Mike Licona said, "[Gary] Habermas has compiled a list of more than 2,200 sources in French, German, and English in which experts have written on the resurrection from 1975 to the present. He has identified minimal facts that are strongly evidenced and which are regarded as historical by a large majority of scholars, including skeptics. We try to come up with the best historical explanation to account for these facts. This is called the Minimal Facts Approach."

William Lane Craig (sadly, a non-OSASer) does confirm Habermas recorded 1400 scholars (both skeptics and non-skeptics alike) whom 75% agree the tomb was empty and nearly all agree the original disciples truly believed they had seen Jesus alive from the dead bodily, for a vision wouldn't convince the disciples of resurrection.

Gary Habermas said (2009) on the John Ankerberg Show, "I just did a count recently of what scholars say. First of all you can count guys on one hand of the 2400 sources since 1975 on the resurrection [in] French, German, English...who think apparent death [is true]. When scholars respond they still cite David Strauss. I think we would all like to have that kind of influence in our writings. His critique has been around almost 200 years." Habermas was referring to Strauss's argument that Jesus wouldn't look much like a risen Messiah to the disciples all battered and bruised.

Habermas and Licona co-authored the award winning book, The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (2004). Historian Paul Maier said the book's response to naturalistic explanations for the resurrection "are the most comprehensive treatment of the subject anywhere." Philosopher J. P. Moreland said the book presented what "may be the most thorough defense of historicity of the resurrection."

Gary said in a 2009 Ankerberg video, "If we start with the cross approximately 30 AD and call that ground zero, 1 Corinthians 15 checks in at about 55 AD whatever the writer, conservative or not conservative, we have 25 years. In ancient historiography this is incredible in a time when the best known biography of Alexander the Great is that of Plutarch almost 400 years after Plutarch. When we learn about the early Caesars from Tacitus to Suetonius a 'good gap' is 100 years; 25 is incredible [for Jesus]. Paul says, 'I am passing onto you as first importance that which I also received' (1 Cor. 15.3)." Paul said, "I make known to you brethren the gospel which I preached to you" (1 Cor. 15.1). Gary says, "This earlier preaching may have taken place 51 AD about 21 years after the cross." But point of fact, Jesus died not in 30 AD, but 33 AD on April 1st (Gregorian), April Fool's Day, Nisan 14, Friday which is no later than 18 years after the cross.

Gary said, "Almost all contemporary scholarship believes Paul received this material (Gal. 1.18) when he went to Jerusalem about 5 years after the cross. Some put it as early as 3 and as late as 8, but he was converted about 2 years after the cross before he went away for 3 years. Paul spent 15 days with Peter. It is safe to say they talked about more than just the weather. Paul said he preached nothing but Christ crucified." Gary said about James D.G. Dunn, "In his recent book Remembering Jesus that this passage (1 Cor. 15.3ff) wasn't just taught. It was already stratified. It was already put in this creedal form within months of the crucifixion."

Gary said (see video), "I did a count recently of people who have written from about 1990 to-date [2009]. 75% of scholars today say that resurrection or 'something like it occurred.' Of that 75%, three to one say it is a bodily appearance. Ted Peters had a book that was published by Eerdmans a few years ago, and 20 out of 20 scholars in his book that he edited said 'bodily resurrection.' Higher critical scholars who are in the minority will still usually concede the appearance involved sight and was embodied."

In the summer of 2012, Gary wrote in the Southeastern Theological Review, "by beginning with a 'lowest common denominator' version of the facts. If I am correct in holding that this basis is still enough to settle the most pressing historical issues, then it is indeed a crucial contribution to the discussions. We will return below to some ramifications here. Regarding my references to the 'vast majority' or 'virtually all' scholars who agree, is it possible to identify these phrases in more precise terms? In some contexts, I have identified these expressions more specifically. At least when referencing the most important historical occurrences, I frequently think in terms of a ninety-something percentile head-count. No doubt, this is one of the reasons why the concept has gained some attention.

"My bibliography is presently at about 3400 sources and counting, published originally in French, German, or English. Initially I read and catalogued the majority of these publications, charting the representative authors, positions, topics, and so on, concentrating on both well-known and obscure writers alike, across the entire skeptical to liberal to conservative spectrum. As the number of sources grew, I moved more broadly into this research, trying to keep up with the current state of resurrection research. He said this again at William Lane Craig's "On Guard" conference, "1 Corinthians is one of six to eight books all accredited critical scholars accept. You can count the exception on two hands, probably one hand. I have 3400 sources in a bibliography from 1975 to the present (2012). When I say you can count the guys on one hand who disagree with this it is not very many. They believe Paul is the best source, and 1 Corinthians is one of the most dependable sources. They allow 1 Corinthians and Galatians. Both are on the accepted list. Bart Ehrman says they are the authentic Pauline epistle. So does most everybody else. Whatever you write, these two books are allowed [indicating Paul's genuine belief]. Paul is writing a mere [no more than] 25 years later. That is incredible. We have no other founder of a major world religion who has miracles reported of him within a generation."

"I endeavored to be more than fair to all the positions. In fact, if anything, I erred in the direction of cataloguing the most radical positions, since this was the only classification where I included even those authors who did not have specialized scholarly credentials or peer-reviewed publications. It is this group, too, that often tends to doubt or deny that Jesus ever existed. Yet, given that I counted many sources in this category, this means that my study is skewed in the skeptical direction far more than if I had stayed strictly with my requirement of citing only those with scholarly credentials. Still, I included these positions quite liberally, even when the wide majority of mainline scholars, 'liberals' included, rarely even footnoted this material. Of course, this practice would also skew the numbers who proposed naturalistic theories of the resurrection, to which I particularly gravitated.

"The result of all these years of study is a private manuscript of more than 600 pages that simply does little more than line up the scholarly positions and details on these 140 key questions....

"[Mike] Licona begins by listing my three chief Minimal Facts regarding Jesus’ fate: (1) Jesus died due to the process of crucifixion. (2) Very soon afterwards, Jesus’ disciples had experiences that they believed were appearances of the resurrected Jesus. (3) Just a few years later, Saul of Tarsus also experienced what he thought was a post-resurrection appearance of the risen Jesus."

 

[sealybobo]

How many times have you guys made your predictions and they didn't come true. Now we have to listen to your bullshit for 14 years and when it comes and goes you guys will have another prediction.I have a prediction. You suck! Your god is made up. When you die, that's it. Get over it. Time to enjoy the time you have here and now and stop waiting and worrying about after you die. Pathetic humans.

This is the only prediction I ever made. No prophecy would be correct if it had Jesus returning before the 2010/11 earthquake (never happened before--first time!!!), 4th long H3 solar eclipse since Christ Nov. 3, 2014, and the 2014/15 Tetrad (8th since Christ, won't happen again till 2582/83 but no unique solar then), and the sign of the Son of Man in Matt. 24.30 which is Apophis. Nothing in history has ever compared to Apophis.

As Jesus was resurrected so will everyone be resurrected (Enoch and Elijah, Jesus and the companion firstfruits have already been resurrected), except you will be resurrected 1000 years after the saved. You are going to Hell. Enjoyment of life is better attained being born-again and having eternal life and the joy of the Lord as He lived a perfectly sinless life. We in Christ see things from a transcendent level rather than naturalistic only perspective which is very base and carnal.

You are a brainwashed fool. Ignorance is bliss. I'm going to hell? From your reply it seems you're already in hell. Lighten up. Oh, and the best prophesy ever was Halley when he predicted when the comet would return. Before him you bible thumpers all thought that comets were signs from god. Grow up.

You're going to hell? LOL. What a fool. If there is no god there is no hell dummy.

 

[Parture]

You are a brainwashed fool. Ignorance is bliss. I'm going to hell? From your reply it seems you're already in hell. Lighten up. Oh, and the best prophesy ever was Halley when he predicted when the comet would return. Before him you bible thumpers all thought that comets were signs from god. Grow up.You're going to hell? LOL. What a fool. If there is no god there is no hell dummy.

You sound uptight like you are trying to hide it with crass words, because you know if the Bible is true you most definitely are going to Hell. Whereas Christians have the joy of the Lord, eternal blessings and peace of the Holy Spirit. It is no longer we that live but Christ in us by the Holy Spirit.

What does Halley have to do with anything? Rev. 6.12 occurred from 2010-15. You can't find a better fit. Wake up! Rev. 6.12 has 3 specific events that must happen in precise order and they happened. Now wait for 7 years of plenty followed by 7 years of famine in which Jesus returns in the year of the "sign of the Son of Man" asteroid Apophis which comes within 25,000 miles of earth, satellite distance range, on April 13, 2029. Last time an asteroid of this size hit earth was 80,000 years ago. It is 3 foot ball fields in length. Because we recently landed on a comet, I believe it is in the mind of some people to land on Apophis to try to change its trajectory. If someone is evil enough and powerful enough they can make it hit earth because it comes so close. Of course Jesus won't allow that to happen, but it will be all the rave.

Since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God, of course you are going to Hell, because you are too selfish to come to the cross to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior. He gives you that free choice to want to be eternally separated from Him and so you shall be. The Bible says you will have no rest day or night in Hell and where the worm never dies, so if you were hoping through suicide you could cease to exist, ain't going to happen.