The Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act Redeux

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I thought it might be worthwhile to start fresh after reviewing the burning pile of shit our resident neo-Nazis turned the last thread about this bill into. Just the facts:

Text - H.R.3504 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act | Congress.gov | Library of Congress is the text of the document. It was written and sponsored by Representative Franks of Arizona. Essentially what it would do is guarantee legal personhood and all of its protections starting at the moment of birth. The practical purpose of this is to criminalize feticide in the clinic or hospital setting, such as immediately after an an attempted abortion. If the victim survives the attempt, then the doctor must do everything in his power to provide any necessary medical care and ensure the victim's survival as with any other newborn.

It passed the House Friday with 248-177. Voting was strictly by party line, except for five Democrat supporters. Apparently it has recently been defeated in the Senate, however I cannot find any source for this claim. I suspect these claims may have mistaken this bill for H.R. 3134, which was the Republican initiative to remove Planned Parenthood's federal funding until the investigation into their latest scandal is concluded.

 

[David_42]

Great idea, let's force women who have a failed abortion at 8 weeks to pay for medical care for the brutalized fetus. More idiocy from the right.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Does anyone have anything worthwhile to say?

 

[aris2chat]

1st term or later term abortions, the fetus/child is not alive. They are injected either same day in 1st term and up to three days before late term abortions so the heart is not beating.

During a miscarriage, spontaneous abortion or premature delivery the child might be alive or able to be resuscitated.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

It's not about first term abortions or miscarriages. It's about babies born during or immediately after a botched abortion. From the text:

SEC. 2. Findings.

Congress finds as follows:

(1) If an abortion results in the live birth of an infant, the infant is a legal person for all purposes under the laws of the United States, and entitled to all the protections of such laws.

(2) Any infant born alive after an abortion or within a hospital, clinic, or other facility has the same claim to the protection of the law that would arise for any newborn, or for any person who comes to a hospital, clinic, or other facility for screening and treatment or otherwise becomes a patient within its care.

 

[JoeB131]

Does anyone have anything worthwhile to say?

I think David just did. I mean, what are you going to do with these mangled, genetically damaged babies if you somehow manage to get it to survive? Are you going to force the women to take them home and care for them?

Also, given the cost of a premature baby that wasn't mangled in an abortion is often $49,000 for the first year, I'm just wondering where you think all this money is going to come from to take care of ones that 1) were being aborted because they have genetic defects like Downs, Spinabifida, etc, and 2) were probably injured during the course of the botched abortion.

I am also wondering how you are going to enforce this law. They had to spend millions convicting Gosnell, a mentally ill man who decorated his clinic like a horror film. I'm just wondering how you are going to catch the doctors who actually bother to dispose of the medical waste.

Reason for religious nuts is like garlic to a vampire.

 

[JoeB131]

It's not about first term abortions or miscarriages. It's about babies born during or immediately after a botched abortion. From the text:

SEC. 2. Findings.

Congress finds as follows:

(1) If an abortion results in the live birth of an infant, the infant is a legal person for all purposes under the laws of the United States, and entitled to all the protections of such laws.

(2) Any infant born alive after an abortion or within a hospital, clinic, or other facility has the same claim to the protection of the law that would arise for any newborn, or for any person who comes to a hospital, clinic, or other facility for screening and treatment or otherwise becomes a patient within its care.

Is Congress going to set aside the money to make this law work?

The Cost of Premature Birth: For One Family, More than $2 Million | TIME.com

For Jen Sinconis, the title of the new report — Born Too Soon — is an understatement. Sinconis’ twin boys were born at 24 weeks in Oct. 2006. Sinconis’ placenta detached, and she had to deliver her sons via emergency C-section. Ethan weighed 1 lb., 6 oz.; Aidan weighed half a pound more. “My pregnancy was completely normal and healthy up until five hours before they were born,” says Sinconis, who manages a Starbucks in Seattle. “I had no idea anything would go wrong.”

The U.S. Institute of Medicine has calculated the annual costs associated with preterm birth at more than $26 billion. Ethan and Aidan Sinconis racked up $2.2 million in medical bills in the first 18 months after they were born. Insurance covered most of the costs, but their parents’ portion approached $450,000. “It destroyed us,” says Sinconis, 35, who has written about her family’s experience in A Pound of Hope.

She and her husband, Justin, were forced to file for bankruptcy and sold their possessions on Craigslist to generate cash. Meanwhile, the boys struggled through heart surgery and eye surgery, sepsis, rickets and brain hemorrhages. When they left the hospital after six months, they were ordered to avoid contact with the outside world. Attached to oxygen, heart monitors and feeding tubes, they remained at home in isolation for three years.

Okay, let's review here. This family got completely wiped out by a premature birth.

So what Pedro Sanity Pads wants to do is have the doctor bring out a crash cart for a fetus like this if it is still flopping around on the deck after an attempted abortion, spend millions to try to keep them alive.

We are often talking about women without insurance.

You know, because "Life" or "Jesus" or something.

Hey, here's a crazy idea. Let's try to prevent unwanted pregnancies instead of trying to micromanage them.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Great idea, let's force women who have a failed abortion at 8 weeks to pay for medical care for the brutalized fetus. More idiocy from the right.

HEY LOOK! It's a Leftist actually showing concern for other people's money!

ROFL... Therefore, it's a lie.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Is Congress going to set aside the money to make this law work?

Yes... they're taking it out of Federal WIC Subsidies. Apparently; and this is going to be tough for you to hear... but it turns out that it's not anyone else's job to feed your kids.

 

[Compost]

Even abortion enthusiasts ought to be able to understand that a living human being that fell out of the womb is worth saving. The same human dignity that allows people "choice" surely allows that people who are alive may keep living, even if they prove inconvenient.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Nazi bullshit.

I thought I told you never to address your betters again. You have the last thread, which was also originally about H.R. 3504 until you and daws101 worked together to run interference and control the discussion. Either stick to this particular bill in the thread about this particular bill or goose step your happy little ass back to the one you've already hijacked.

Even abortion enthusiasts ought to be able to understand that a living human being that fell out of the womb is worth saving. The same human dignity that allows people "choice" surely allows that people who are alive may keep living, even if they prove inconvenient.

They do consider every human being worth saving. They just reserve the right to decide who counts as a human being. Look at how they discuss pregnancy. They talk about unborn babies they want in similar ways to pro-life folks, but insist on calling unborn babies they don't want the Latin term for unborn baby as a way to dehumanize and objectify her. Now they even extend that Latin term for unborn young to born babies they failed to kill. Pointing out why that's stupid is typically as impossible with them as it was with their Communist and Nazi forebears.

Anyway, has anyone managed to find a reference to this bill coming before the Senate? I'm still trying to find a source for the claims that it has even been put up for a vote yet.

 

[pwjohn]

This bill is an obvious attempt by republicans to drag modern medicine as we know it today, back into the 7th century, right where they think it should be..

 

[mamooth]

As I pointed out in the previous thread, pro-lifers are crying because their propaganda attempt failed. It was filibustered and killed in the senate.

Congressional Bills and Votes

Why was it killed? Because it was so obviously dishonest. Like, duh.

Look, if all pro-lifers weren't pathological liars, we could take them at their word that they were trying to "protect born babies". But we can't, given that pro-lifers always lie. They believe they have a special moral dispensation to lie for the "greater good", hence nothing they say can be trusted.

So what's the true motive of the pro-lifers? To lay the foundation for some Stalinist bogus prosecutions and fraudulent civil lawsuits. And that's why the pro-lifers are crying so hard, because their plans for Stalinist oppression and fraud were foiled.

 

[mamooth]

They just reserve the right to decide who counts as a human being.

Exactly as you do, so stuff the hypocrisy.

Pointing out why that's stupid is typically as impossible with them as it was with their Communist and Nazi forebears.

Hitler was very pro-life. As are Islamofascists and 3rd world tyrants. Fine company you keep, Pedro.

In contrast, the civilized world embraces abortion rights, being that all moral people understand how enslaving women is wrong.

 

[aris2chat]

Does anyone have anything worthwhile to say?

I think David just did. I mean, what are you going to do with these mangled, genetically damaged babies if you somehow manage to get it to survive? Are you going to force the women to take them home and care for them?

Also, given the cost of a premature baby that wasn't mangled in an abortion is often $49,000 for the first year, I'm just wondering where you think all this money is going to come from to take care of ones that 1) were being aborted because they have genetic defects like Downs, Spinabifida, etc, and 2) were probably injured during the course of the botched abortion.

I am also wondering how you are going to enforce this law. They had to spend millions convicting Gosnell, a mentally ill man who decorated his clinic like a horror film. I'm just wondering how you are going to catch the doctors who actually bother to dispose of the medical waste.

Reason for religious nuts is like garlic to a vampire.

It can be much higher, it could be upwards of $500,000 just for the hospital cost and more care afterwards.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

As I pointed out in the previous thread, pro-lifers are crying because their propaganda attempt failed. It was filibustered and killed in the senate.

Your link says the bill was passed in the House by 34 votes. It doesn't say anything about the Senate voting on it much less failing to pass it. Would you like to provide a real source for this?

Look, if all pro-lifers weren't pathological liars, we could take them at their word that they were trying to "protect born babies". But we can't, given that pro-lifers always lie. They believe they have a special moral dispensation to lie for the "greater good", hence nothing they say can be trusted.

"I think you're a liar since everything you say is a lie. I know that's true because everything you say is a lie, which I know because you're a liar." That's not an argument. That's circular reasoning. Would you like to talk about H.R. 3504 now?

So what's the true motive of the pro-lifers? To lay the foundation for some Stalinist bogus prosecutions and fraudulent civil lawsuits. And that's why the pro-lifers are crying so hard, because their plans for Stalinist oppression and fraud were foiled.

Wait. So now our actual motivation is to create a Communist state? Daws told me we're a religion based on the worship of the Supreme High Fetus last night. You might want to have some words with him.

Hitler was very pro-life. As are Islamofascists and 3rd world tyrants. Fine company you keep, Pedro.

Uhuh. I'm going to take this as confirmation that you still would not like to talk about H.R. 3504. You'll have better luck in the last thread. Joe and Daws already hijacked that one.

Once again, would anyone like to discuss the topic of the thread?

 

[daws101]

the sequel crashed and burned!

 

[daws101]

As I pointed out in the previous thread, pro-lifers are crying because their propaganda attempt failed. It was filibustered and killed in the senate.

Your link says the bill was passed in the House by 34 votes. It doesn't say anything about the Senate voting on it much less failing to pass it. Would you like to provide a real source for this?

Look, if all pro-lifers weren't pathological liars, we could take them at their word that they were trying to "protect born babies". But we can't, given that pro-lifers always lie. They believe they have a special moral dispensation to lie for the "greater good", hence nothing they say can be trusted.

"I think you're a liar since everything you say is a lie. I know that's true because everything you say is a lie, which I know because you're a liar." That's not an argument. That's circular reasoning. Would you like to talk about H.R. 3504 now?

So what's the true motive of the pro-lifers? To lay the foundation for some Stalinist bogus prosecutions and fraudulent civil lawsuits. And that's why the pro-lifers are crying so hard, because their plans for Stalinist oppression and fraud were foiled.

Wait. So now our actual motivation is to create a Communist state? Daws told me we're a religion based on the worship of the Supreme High Fetus last night. You might want to have some words with him.

Hitler was very pro-life. As are Islamofascists and 3rd world tyrants. Fine company you keep, Pedro.

Uhuh. I'm going to take this as confirmation that you still would not like to talk about H.R. 3504. You'll have better luck in the last thread. Joe and Daws already hijacked that one.

Once again, would anyone like to discuss the topic of the thread?

you are a religion

religion

noun re·li·gion \ri-ˈli-jən\
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Would anyone like to discuss the subject (H.R. 3504) before Team Blue attempts to hijack and derail this one too?

 

[mamooth]

We've all been discussing it, while you've been running from the discussion. Your problem is obviously that we're not following the propaganda script you set up, and that's left you flustered and unable to respond.

So, do you understand how awful you look for refusing to discuss your own thread topic?

But then, I suppose you should stick with what you're good at. In your case, that would be screaming "Nazi!" at everyone and then feigning moral outrage as an excuse to run.