The Christian deception called "The Fall."

[Mickiel]

Christianity has taught for along time that Adam and Eve :' Fell from the garden of Eden, in my biblical view that is incorrect. They were set up and thrown out. And nothing happened to them that God did not want to happen. They were set up by God to get completely outclassed, they had absolutely no chance whatsoever. God did not help them. In fact , the serpent did not sneak into Eden, it was allowed in by God. And it was, Gen. 3:3 and it was more subtle than any beast God had ever made.

Lets look into the truth

 

[Mickiel]

Now the first unusual thing God does in Gen. 2:9 God creates a tree and causes it to grow, right in the middle of the garden , you can't miss it. Sticks out like a sore thumb. Good for food and pleasing to look at; an obvious temptation. But to make it worse , God puts both good and evil in the tree. Now here's up , a young powerless feeble weak couple , now has to deal with the most powerful beast God had made, and without God's help.

Then we have Eve, obviously in charge of Adam, because she does all the talking, Adam says nothing. It takes the serpent seconds to make a fool out of her.

 

[The Irish Ram]

huh, and where were you when God created the earth? Surely you could have done a better job....

If a father tells his son, "Here is your new car. Have fun. The only rule I have for you, is not to drink and drive."
So the kid drinks and drives and wraps his car around a pole."
The father did not set the child up.

 

[Mickiel]

The serpent basically told her 2 things ,if she ate she would not" Surely die", which she did not, she lived over 900 years. It was death, but not "Surely death." And he told her if she ate her eyes would be opened, In Gen. 3:22 God affirms that this came true.she would be like gods knowing good and evil, which came true!

The devil did NOT tell them a bunch of lies, they were set up to be duped.

 

[Mickiel]

Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say that God gave Adam and Eve his Holy Spirit. Nowhere ; its not there. Adam and Eve were basically stupid, did not even know they were naked. Eve ruled over Adam, we know this by the curse God placed on Eve in Gen.3:16 ,sorrow in her conception , desire for her husband and he will rule over her. From God's curse on her we can know that before this curse , Eve ruled over Adam , she was in charge and a curse had to takeaway her authority. Which means Adam was a whimp.

 

[Mickiel]

So Adam did not fall , he was set up by God to fail and he got kicked out of the garden. He did not fallout, he was thrown out.

But why did God cause this? Well he was creating the "Need for Christ to come!"

 

[Meriweather]

The serpent basically told her 2 things ,if she ate she would not" Surely die", which she did not, she lived over 900 years. It was death, but not "Surely death." And he told her if she ate her eyes would be opened, In Gen. 3:22 God affirms that this came true.she would be like gods knowing good and evil, which came true!

The devil did NOT tell them a bunch of lies, they were set up to be duped.

Or...

In the animal world, innocence prevails because there is no knowledge of good and evil. An animal does not know and cannot judge whether what it does is good or evil. What made humans different?

Perhaps it was our curiosity. God knew what was good and what was bad--He had this knowledge. Adam and Eve, perhaps Eve especially, wanted to be able to identify and know what is good and what is evil. This knowledge is a two edged sword, because with it, comes the knowledge of how to use good for evil, and also how to do evil in the name of good.

I disagree this was a set-up. God warned Adam and Eve against certain behavior because it carried grave consequences. Knowledge of good and evil may not be all it is cracked up to be. Ask yourself: In Adam's or Eve's shoes, would you choose to maintain complete innocence, having no thought of whether whatever you did was good or evil, it just was--or would you want to know, and be able to distinguish between, what is good and what is evil?

Like Eve, I think I would choose to know. And like the story of Pandora, this would release all kinds of related evil and chaos into the world--along with people who will always strive to make it better. Despite the council against obtaining knowledge, when this was the choice humans made, God promised to help and guide us in our choice.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Free will.....that is where it began

 

[Meriweather]

Free will.....that is where it began

Yes. Well said.

 

[Mickiel]

There was no choices or free will in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were complettely blind both spiritually and intellectually. Well how can we know this, well just read your bible for once. In Gen. 3:6-7 Adam and Eve eat;;notice closely what it really teaches; they ate and the EYES OF BOTH OF THEM WERE OPENED! Now this does not mean they were physically blind , they were not; they could see. It means they were spiritually and intellectually blind!

Everything that happened to them before Gen. 3;7-8 , they were totally helpless , which is exactly how God wanted it.

Spiritually blind and stupid humans verses satan devil; no match ,case closed.

 

[tinydancer]

Our Lord was a first time father. First time fathers can mess up. He gave his children free will. I'm sure he went Holy toledo she took the apple? Holy toledo she gave it to Adam?

Whoopsies! Next up I have to fix this.

 

[tinydancer]

There was no choices or free will in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were complettely blind both spiritually and intellectually. Well how can we know this, well just read your bible for once. In Gen. 3:6-7 Adam and Eve eat;;notice closely what it really teaches; they ate and the EYES OF BOTH OF THEM WERE OPENED! Now this does not mean they were physically blind , they were not; they could see. It means they were spiritually and intellectually blind!

Everything that happened to them before Gen. 3;7-8 , they were totally helpless , which is exactly how God wanted it.

Spiritually blind and stupid humans verses satan devil; no match ,case closed.

My husband and I have personally fought Satan in a demonically possessed house and won. Wasn't easy. But he's beatable. He's just the devil. He's no big smurf compared to the Lord.

 

[Mickiel]

Our Lord was a first time father. First time fathers can mess up. He gave his children free will. I'm sure he went Holy toledo she took the apple? Holy toledo she gave it to Adam?

Whoopsies! Next up I have to fix this.

There is no such thing as freewill, there was no such thing as the fall ,Christianity has poisoned the truth and fed it to this world.

Adam had to introduce sin into this world , so that Christ would get introduced.

 

[Mickiel]

There was no choices or free will in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were complettely blind both spiritually and intellectually. Well how can we know this, well just read your bible for once. In Gen. 3:6-7 Adam and Eve eat;;notice closely what it really teaches; they ate and the EYES OF BOTH OF THEM WERE OPENED! Now this does not mean they were physically blind , they were not; they could see. It means they were spiritually and intellectually blind!

Everything that happened to them before Gen. 3;7-8 , they were totally helpless , which is exactly how God wanted it.

Spiritually blind and stupid humans verses satan devil; no match ,case closed.

My husband and I have personally fought Satan in a demonically possessed house and won. Wasn't easy. But he's beatable. He's just the devil. He's no big smurf compared to the Lord.

In my personal opinion no human could best satan,so when humans do it, I think its God or his Angels or Jesus that really best him. Or the Holy Spirit ; outside of those things , we have ABSOLUTELY no chance at all. On our own, satan could sift billions of us like wheat ; in mere seconds. Satan is not beatable by humans; not in my studies.

 

[Mickiel]

Christianity NEEDS " The "Fall" , because falling is important to their theology.

 

[LittleNipper]

Christianity NEEDS " The "Fall" , because falling is important to their theology.

Christianity wasn't heard of when Moses wrote Genesis as revealed by the LORD. You need to reject the "FALL" because it undermines your lifestyle/values.

 

[Mickiel]

Christianity NEEDS " The "Fall" , because falling is important to their theology.

Christianity wasn't heard of when Moses wrote Genesis as revealed by the LORD. You need to reject the "FALL" because it undermines your lifestyle/values.

Well it certainly does undermine the salvation of humanity , because the Christian theology of the fall places the weight of sin on Adam and his generate, instead of on Christ. It places the responsibility for sin on humanity instead of God our Savior. That's why you Christians can condemn so many humans, because your theology holds humanity responsible for sin. Adam did not introduce sin into the garden, the serpent did, and God KNEW that! Adam and Eve were totally helpless against that thing.

 

[onefour1]

It is true that God our Father knew that when he placed Adam and Eve on this earth that they would fall. For this reason he called and ordained a Savior before the foundations of this earth.

1 Peter 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So why would God put us on this earth to fall? If God knew in advance that Adam and Eve would fall, why did he place them in garden? To understand the true reason, one needs to understand the true nature of God.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The key to understanding this is to know that God is not an ex nihilo creator. Ex Nihilo creation is a false doctrine that is never taught in the Bible. It has come about from the philosophies of men over a long time but was never part of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We used to believe in Newton's law of the conservation of matter. It is true that matter is eternal in nature. It is also true that God is a self existent being. What is not understood by many who profess to be Christian is that mankind also exists upon the same principle. There is a part of man's spirit that is as self existent as God himself. There was never a time when that part of man which thinks and chooses did not exist. We are eternal beings by nature.

God took of that eternal part of man that thinks and chooses and created a spirit body from spirit matter. When we came to this earth, God created Adam and Eve from the dust of this earth and put into man his spirit. Creation is not to create out nothing but to create out things that already exist.

We say that God is all powerful. What does that mean? Can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it? Can God be all good and all evil simultaneously? Can God create something that is Self Existent out of nothing? I suggest to you that God is all powerful in that he can do all things that are possible. We, in our imperfect state, do not fully comprehend all that is possible. But God does. He can anything that is possible. But there are eternal impossibilities. God did not create himself out of nothing. That is an eternal impossibility. God could not create anything else that is self existent either. That too would be an eternal impossibility. If that part of man that thinks and chooses is eternal by nature, then God could not have created man from nothing. He may have formed man's spirit body from spirit matter and formed our physical bodies from the dust of the earth, but that eternal part of man that has always existed was not created or made and neither indeed can be.

If God could not create that part of man that thinks and chooses, then he could not create it to be perfect. For this reason evil exists because man is eternal by nature and is in an imperfect state. God could not create that which is self existent. Thus God could not create us to be perfect. If one believes in ex nihilo creation, one must also believe that God could and should have created us to be perfect. But God is not an ex nihilo creator. "Man was also in the beginning with God, intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made and neither indeed can be"(D&C 93:29). Thus for God to help man progress, he needed to teach man correct principles and let man choose for himself.

To truly be a good person, one must have free will. Free will is critical to truly becoming a good being. If you were to force a being to be good, would he still be a good being when stop the force? Would he really be a good being while you are forcing him to be good? it is only when man chooses goodness in and of himself that he is truly a good being. True good beings do good of their own volition and not by force. God realizes this and this is why God holds free will inviolate.

So to get back to our original question, Why would God put us on this earth to fall? It was God's intention to allow mankind to learn and grow by experience. This life is a school ground for us to experience good and evil. God couldn't force us to fall for that would be wrong on God's part. So he had a plan to help us grow and progress to become better beings. He would place us in a temporary state to experience good and evil, life and death, pain and joy. He also gave us a body. He gave us a choice before the foundation of this earth to come to this earth life and progress to become more like God himself. So he placed a vale over the minds of Adam and Eve so as not to remember their pre-mortal state. He allowed them to choose for themselves what to do. He placed Satan in their midst to tempt them. And yes, he knew they would fall. By falling from heaven, they were able to experience good and evil and have knowledge of it in order to become more like God himself.

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

It was God's plan that mankind fall and experience this good and evil as well as gain a body. But being in a fallen state required salvation from the fallen state. for this reason Christ was chosen to be our Savior before the foundation of the world. Through him all mankind would be resurrected whether they do good or evil. thus all mankind would be redeemed from the fall. But those who choose evil in this life will not live among those who choose good in eternity nor will they be given the blessings of those who choose good. All will receive immortality but not all will inherit eternal life.

So, yes God knew that Adam and Eve would fall, yes, he did place them in a position to fall, but God provided a means whereby they would all be redeemed from the fall through the resurrection of the dead. But according to their own choices here on earth, they would be judged whether they chose good over evil.

 

[Mickiel]

It is true that God our Father knew that when he placed Adam and Eve on this earth that they would fall. For this reason he called and ordained a Savior before the foundations of this earth.

1 Peter 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So why would God put us on this earth to fall? If God knew in advance that Adam and Eve would fall, why did he place them in garden? To understand the true reason, one needs to understand the true nature of God.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The key to understanding this is to know that God is not an ex nihilo creator. Ex Nihilo creation is a false doctrine that is never taught in the Bible. It has come about from the philosophies of men over a long time but was never part of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We used to believe in Newton's law of the conservation of matter. It is true that matter is eternal in nature. It is also true that God is a self existent being. What is not understood by many who profess to be Christian is that mankind also exists upon the same principle. There is a part of man's spirit that is as self existent as God himself. There was never a time when that part of man which thinks and chooses did not exist. We are eternal beings by nature.

God took of that eternal part of man that thinks and chooses and created a spirit body from spirit matter. When we came to this earth, God created Adam and Eve from the dust of this earth and put into man his spirit. Creation is not to create out nothing but to create out things that already exist.

We say that God is all powerful. What does that mean? Can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it? Can God be all good and all evil simultaneously? Can God create something that is Self Existent out of nothing? I suggest to you that God is all powerful in that he can do all things that are possible. We, in our imperfect state, do not fully comprehend all that is possible. But God does. He can anything that is possible. But there are eternal impossibilities. God did not create himself out of nothing. That is an eternal impossibility. God could not create anything else that is self existent either. That too would be an eternal impossibility. If that part of man that thinks and chooses is eternal by nature, then God could not have created man from nothing. He may have formed man's spirit body from spirit matter and formed our physical bodies from the dust of the earth, but that eternal part of man that has always existed was not created or made and neither indeed can be.

If God could not create that part of man that thinks and chooses, then he could not create it to be perfect. For this reason evil exists because man is eternal by nature and is in an imperfect state. God could not create that which is self existent. Thus God could not create us to be perfect. If one believes in ex nihilo creation, one must also believe that God could and should have created us to be perfect. But God is not an ex nihilo creator. "Man was also in the beginning with God, intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made and neither indeed can be"(D&C 93:29). Thus for God to help man progress, he needed to teach man correct principles and let man choose for himself.

To truly be a good person, one must have free will. Free will is critical to truly becoming a good being. If you were to force a being to be good, would he still be a good being when stop the force? Would he really be a good being while you are forcing him to be good? it is only when man chooses goodness in and of himself that he is truly a good being. True good beings do good of their own volition and not by force. God realizes this and this is why God holds free will inviolate.

So to get back to our original question, Why would God put us on this earth to fall? It was God's intention to allow mankind to learn and grow by experience. This life is a school ground for us to experience good and evil. God couldn't force us to fall for that would be wrong on God's part. So he had a plan to help us grow and progress to become better beings. He would place us in a temporary state to experience good and evil, life and death, pain and joy. He also gave us a body. He gave us a choice before the foundation of this earth to come to this earth life and progress to become more like God himself. So he placed a vale over the minds of Adam and Eve so as not to remember their pre-mortal state. He allowed them to choose for themselves what to do. He placed Satan in their midst to tempt them. And yes, he knew they would fall. By falling from heaven, they were able to experience good and evil and have knowledge of it in order to become more like God himself.

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

It was God's plan that mankind fall and experience this good and evil as well as gain a body. But being in a fallen state required salvation from the fallen state. for this reason Christ was chosen to be our Savior before the foundation of the world. Through him all mankind would be resurrected whether they do good or evil. thus all mankind would be redeemed from the fall. But those who choose evil in this life will not live among those who choose good in eternity nor will they be given the blessings of those who choose good. All will receive immortality but not all will inherit eternal life.

So, yes God knew that Adam and Eve would fall, yes, he did place them in a position to fall, but God provided a means whereby they would all be redeemed from the fall through the resurrection of the dead. But according to their own choices here on earth, they would be judged whether they chose good over evil.

There is no such thing as the fall , Adam and eve were set up and kicked out, period. And matter is not eternal in nature. Matter is temporary physical chemical existence. And there is no such thing as something God" Cannot do" , you Christians just like hearing yourselves say that lie; there are only things that God " Will not do." Learn to respect him and his power.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
all living beings struggle equally upon the same conditions for their Spirits to be admitted to the Everlasting.

the Almighty is simply the gatekeeper.

.