The Cosmological Arguments for God's Existence

[ding]

Maybe this universe exists in an infinite amount of space and time? Think about a lava lamp.

If god is eternal so is space and time.

The whole point of the KCA is that spacetime cannot be eternal. You're alleging an infinite regress of causality or an actual infinite of materiality. Please give a coherent account as to how such things are possible. Also, are you equating divinity to a material being?

It’s a given that our space time is not eternal into the past.

If we start from the position that our existence had a beginning and was created from nothing according to the laws of nature then we know that the laws of nature existed before our existence. Which supports the assertion that existence can only be created by a preexisting existence as the laws of nature were already in place.

Yea, our space time. Our one little bubble in an infinite sea of bubbles.

There may be others.

But if there are they each had a beginning.

 

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

I’m ok with that.

 

[G.T.]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I hope youve gotten the opportunity to see his Nun-ish melt-downs where...when you dismiss out of hand as asinine...he begins robo-spouting platitudes like "causes have effects," and his favorite catch-phrases that he, of course, didnt invent like "predictable surprise."



Guy's a petrified pre-programmed fundy.

 

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

If that’s how you need to see it go for it.

It doesn’t refute anything I have written.

 

[buttercup]

The cosmological arguments for God's existence are predicated on the first principles of ontology, i.e., the fundamental facts of existence per the imperatives of logic. Many fail to appreciate the intermediate premises of these arguments, particularly those of the KCA.


The following includes my own sub-premises for the first premise and my summary argument for the conclusion:

The Kalam Cosmological Argument (Horizontal Argument)

1. That which begins to exist must have a cause of its existence.

1.1. Something exists.

1.2. Existence from nonexistence is absurd.

1.3. Something has always existed.
​

2. The universe began to exist.

Argument based on the impossibility of an actual infinite.
2.11. An actual infinite cannot exist.
2.12. An infinite temporal regress of events is an actual infinite.
2.13. Therefore, an infinite temporal regress of events cannot exist.

AND

Argument based on the impossibility of the formation of an actual infinite by successive addition.
2.21. A collection formed by successive addition cannot be actually infinite.
2.22. The temporal series of past events is a collection formed by successive addition.
2.23. Therefore, the temporal series of past events cannot be actually infinite.​

3. The universe has a cause of its existence.

3.1. If the cause of the universe's existence were impersonal, it would be operationally mechanical.

3.2. An operationally mechanical cause would be a material existent.

3.3. The causal conditions for the effect of an operationally mechanical cause would be given from eternity.

3.4. But a material existent is a contingent entity of continuous change and causality!

3.5. An infinite temporal series of past causal events cannot be traversed to the present.

3.6. Indeed, an actual infinite cannot exist.

3.7. Hence, a temporal existent cannot have a beginningless past.

3.8. Hence, time began to exist.

3.9. A material existent is a temporal existent.

3.10. Hence, materiality began to exist.

3.11. The universe is a material existent.

3.12. Hence, the universe began to exist.

3.13. Hence, the cause of the universe's existence cannot be material (per 3.10.).

3.14. Hence, the cause of the universe's existence cannot be operationally mechanical (per 3.2., 3.10.).

3.15. Hence, the eternally self-subsistent cause of the universe's existence is wholly transcendent: timeless, immaterial and immutable (3.13.).

3.16. The only kind of timeless entity that could cause the beginning of time sans any external, predetermining causal conditions would be a personal agent of free will (per 3.3., 3.14.).

3.17. Hence, the eternally self-subsistent cause of the universe's existence is a personal agent of free will.


The Vertical Cosmological Argument​

1. If something exists, there must exist what it takes for that thing to exist.
2. The universe—the collection of beings in space and time—exists.
3. Therefore, there must exist what it takes for the universe to exist.
4. What it takes for the universe to exist cannot exist within the universe or be bounded by space and time.
5. Therefore, what it takes for the universe to exist must transcend both space and time.

If God exists, then who made god?

Are you suggesting that existence arose from nonexistence?

Isn't that how you contend that god was made?

Do you honestly not know the answer to that question, or are you trolling? The First Cause does not have a cause. OBVIOUSLY. If The First Cause had a cause, then that cause would be God.

God is eternal. I thought that even atheists knew that, whether you believe it or not.

So by asking that question, you either have to be trolling or you're ignorant as to what God is by definition.

 

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I hope youve gotten the opportunity to see his Nun-ish melt-downs where...when you dismiss out of hand as asinine...he begins robo-spouting platitudes like "causes have effects," and his favorite catch-phrases that he, of course, didnt invent like "predictable surprise."



Guy's a petrified pre-programmed fundy.

If you’re going to make fun of it you could at least get it right.

Normalization of deviance, which is something you are good at, leads to predictable surprises.

 

[G.T.]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

 

[ding]

Guy's a petrified pre-programmed fundy.

Not really. I just enjoy taking on mobs.

 

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

 

[sealybobo]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

I’m ok with that.

You may be fos but you’re good at it. You are a formidable adversary. Respect

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Of course he is. Ding's entire MO is to "win" by exhaustion. He thinks that, if he says enough ridiculous things , people will get tired of having no actual, honest discussion -- instead having to swat away his false horseshit constantly, never quite getting back to the meat of the topic -- and that people will simply tire of his anti intellectual, childish nonsense and give up trying to discuss anything with him.

 

[G.T.]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

Still sounds crazy.

When you're guaranteed eternity as the alpha and omega...there's no loss...its a lossless proposition, sacrifice is impossible without loss. Not to mention the statement "reconcile justice with mercy" is asinine, since theyre not mutually exclusive and therefore dont even require reconciliation.

Oh fuck wait...Im talking to DING.

No wonder its tedious and that every single word of every sentence is fucktarded and wrong.

 

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I hope youve gotten the opportunity to see his Nun-ish melt-downs where...when you dismiss out of hand as asinine...he begins robo-spouting platitudes like "causes have effects," and his favorite catch-phrases that he, of course, didnt invent like "predictable surprise."



Guy's a petrified pre-programmed fundy.

Do you mean platitudes like successful behaviors naturally lead to success just as failed behaviors naturally lead to failure?

Platitudes like that?

No. That’s really true. Otherwise you wouldn’t teach your kids anything.

 

[sealybobo]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

What the fuck did you just say?

I love how Christians say god loved us so much that he gave us his only begotten son. That’s it? How about stop giving kids cancer. If you love us so much do something more than sacrifice one person 2000 years ago. Bfd

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The First Cause does not have a cause.

Yes, we get it, it's the oldest ruse in the book, meant for children and gullible, desperate people.

"Everything had to have a cause, except for my sky daddy, who had no cause ."

 

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

Still sounds crazy.

When you're guaranteed eternity as the alpha and omega...there's no loss...its a lossless proposition, sacrifice is impossible without loss. Not to mention the statement "reconcile justice with mercy" is asinine, since theyre not mutually exclusive and therefore dont even require reconciliation.

Oh fuck wait...Im talking to DING.

No wonder its tedious and that every single word of every sentence is fucktarded and wrong.

But he was born into this world and was fully human when he suffered death. Feel free to diminish it if you like but it’s not a sentence I would like to experience.

 

[sealybobo]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

 

[ding]

The First Cause does not have a cause.

Yes, we get it, it's the oldest ruse in the book, meant for children and gullible, desperate people.

"Everything had to have a cause, except for my sky daddy, who had no cause ."

I’m still waiting for you to disprove God’s existence that you said anyone who was college educated could make.

I guess you aren’t college educated.

 

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

How do you know God didn’t create the material world so he could experience it though us?

How do you know he doesn’t feel all suffering?

 

[sealybobo]

The First Cause does not have a cause.

Yes, we get it, it's the oldest ruse in the book, meant for children and gullible, desperate people.

"Everything had to have a cause, except for my sky daddy, who had no cause ."

I’m still waiting for you to disprove God’s existence that you said anyone who was college educated could make.

I guess you aren’t college educated.

You know no one can disprove gods existence. So for you to ask that tells me you aren’t being intellectually honest here.

What we can prove is every religion is full of shit.

Every Jew agrees with us atheists that jesus wasn’t the son of god. Muslims deny that too.

So the burden of proof is on you, no?