The debt ceiling is a distraction

JoeNormal

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Jun 9, 2012
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In this excellent article, Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal explains how the corporate outsourcing of a large part of our economy is the culprit behind our deficits.

The real crisis is not the “debt ceiling crisis.” The government shutdown is merely a result of the Republicans using the debt limit ceiling to attempt to block the implementation of Obamacare. If the shutdown persists and becomes a problem, Obama has enough power under the various “war on terror” rulings to declare a national emergency and raise the debt ceiling by executive order. An executive branch that has the power to inter citizens indefinitely and to murder them without due process of law, can certainly set aside a ceiling on debt that jeopardizes the government.

The real crisis is that jobs offshoring by US corporations has permanently lowered US tax revenues by shifting what would have been consumer income, US GDP, and tax base to China, India, and other countries where wages and the cost of living are relatively low. On the spending side, twelve years of wars have inflated annual expenditures. The consequence is a wide deficit gap between revenues and expenditures.

Why the Debt Ceiling is a Distraction » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
 
In this excellent article, Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal explains how the corporate outsourcing of a large part of our economy is the culprit behind our deficits.

The real crisis is not the “debt ceiling crisis.” The government shutdown is merely a result of the Republicans using the debt limit ceiling to attempt to block the implementation of Obamacare. If the shutdown persists and becomes a problem, Obama has enough power under the various “war on terror” rulings to declare a national emergency and raise the debt ceiling by executive order. An executive branch that has the power to inter citizens indefinitely and to murder them without due process of law, can certainly set aside a ceiling on debt that jeopardizes the government.

The real crisis is that jobs offshoring by US corporations has permanently lowered US tax revenues by shifting what would have been consumer income, US GDP, and tax base to China, India, and other countries where wages and the cost of living are relatively low. On the spending side, twelve years of wars have inflated annual expenditures. The consequence is a wide deficit gap between revenues and expenditures.

Why the Debt Ceiling is a Distraction » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Paul Craig Roberts is spot on!
 
In this excellent article, Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal explains how the corporate outsourcing of a large part of our economy is the culprit behind our deficits.

The real crisis is not the “debt ceiling crisis.” The government shutdown is merely a result of the Republicans using the debt limit ceiling to attempt to block the implementation of Obamacare. If the shutdown persists and becomes a problem, Obama has enough power under the various “war on terror” rulings to declare a national emergency and raise the debt ceiling by executive order. An executive branch that has the power to inter citizens indefinitely and to murder them without due process of law, can certainly set aside a ceiling on debt that jeopardizes the government.

The real crisis is that jobs offshoring by US corporations has permanently lowered US tax revenues by shifting what would have been consumer income, US GDP, and tax base to China, India, and other countries where wages and the cost of living are relatively low. On the spending side, twelve years of wars have inflated annual expenditures. The consequence is a wide deficit gap between revenues and expenditures.

Why the Debt Ceiling is a Distraction » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names



I've read a number of Roberts columns over the years and agree with a number of his points, including this one which comes under the phony name of 'Free Trade'.
 
I was hoping a few laissez faire ideologues or defenders of the 'job creators' might chime in.
 
In this excellent article, Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal explains how the corporate outsourcing of a large part of our economy is the culprit behind our deficits.

The real crisis is not the “debt ceiling crisis.” The government shutdown is merely a result of the Republicans using the debt limit ceiling to attempt to block the implementation of Obamacare. If the shutdown persists and becomes a problem, Obama has enough power under the various “war on terror” rulings to declare a national emergency and raise the debt ceiling by executive order. An executive branch that has the power to inter citizens indefinitely and to murder them without due process of law, can certainly set aside a ceiling on debt that jeopardizes the government.

The real crisis is that jobs offshoring by US corporations has permanently lowered US tax revenues by shifting what would have been consumer income, US GDP, and tax base to China, India, and other countries where wages and the cost of living are relatively low. On the spending side, twelve years of wars have inflated annual expenditures. The consequence is a wide deficit gap between revenues and expenditures.

Why the Debt Ceiling is a Distraction » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names



I've read a number of Roberts columns over the years and agree with a number of his points, including this one which comes under the phony name of 'Free Trade'.

Yup, 'Free Trade' sound innocuous enough until you think about its implications.
 
In this excellent article, Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal explains how the corporate outsourcing of a large part of our economy is the culprit behind our deficits.



Why the Debt Ceiling is a Distraction » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names



I've read a number of Roberts columns over the years and agree with a number of his points, including this one which comes under the phony name of 'Free Trade'.

Yup, 'Free Trade' sound innocuous enough until you think about its implications.

Ross Perot was right, wasn't he?
 
I was hoping a few laissez faire ideologues or defenders of the 'job creators' might chime in.

It isn't just that I can pay Patel for pennies on the dollar that I can pay Paul, it's that there is an active anti-business climate in this country. Between the unwieldy numbers of laws and rules and regulations coming out of DC concerning each and every facet of business, to the added expenses that business owners get slapped with with the stroke of every politician's pen, to the fact that business owners are vilified for wanted to make money (the whole point of business in the first place), to the insane taxes here, why wouldn't I go overseas?
 
I was hoping a few laissez faire ideologues or defenders of the 'job creators' might chime in.

It isn't just that I can pay Patel for pennies on the dollar that I can pay Paul, it's that there is an active anti-business climate in this country. Between the unwieldy numbers of laws and rules and regulations coming out of DC concerning each and every facet of business, to the added expenses that business owners get slapped with with the stroke of every politician's pen, to the fact that business owners are vilified for wanted to make money (the whole point of business in the first place), to the insane taxes here, why wouldn't I go overseas?

You're not alone in your perspective. Most businesses would prefer to externalize their expenses and one easy way to do that is by outsourcing overseas. What many business people fail to realize is what they get for their tax dollars. In many cases, the fundamental technologies they base their businesses upon were developed by government entities. Then there's defense and infrastructure, an educated workforce, etc. And completely outside the realm of implied responsibility is the existence of a market that can afford to buy the end product. And since no individual business owner wants to put themselves at a disadvantage to other business owners, the downward spiral continues unabated without government intervention. That's why I believe tariffs are necessary.
 
The government shutdown and the "debt ceiling" are two entirely different things.

I received my paycheck on Friday, and guess what, I paid federal taxes on it. Me, you, and everybody else that has a job is still paying federal taxes. The federal government shutdown didn't stop their inflow of revenue. That inflow of taxpayer money is more than enough to continue paying on the federal debt (as in, no default) amongst other things.
Raising the debt ceiling merely means that the federal government cannot go further into debt, not that it cannot pay it's current debt obligations.
Trying to tie the debt ceiling to the government shutdown is naught but a glaring red herring.
 
Did you bother to ask yourself WHY corporations would outsource overseas? Do you think overly burdensome regulations, government requirements on business, a litigious nightmare of a society, and the highest corporate taxes in the world has anything to do with it?

How about we fix the heart of the problem instead of turning to the central planners that caused the problem in the first place?
 
If the shutdown persists and becomes a problem, Obama has enough power under the various “war on terror” rulings to declare a national emergency and raise the debt ceiling by executive order.

Like hell he does.
 
Did you bother to ask yourself WHY corporations would outsource overseas? Do you think overly burdensome regulations, government requirements on business, a litigious nightmare of a society, and the highest corporate taxes in the world has anything to do with it?

How about we fix the heart of the problem instead of turning to the central planners that caused the problem in the first place?

You'll get no argument from me that our legal system is a scourge. The central planners had nothing to do with its rise - that's good old laissez faire at work. So what do we do about it?
 
Obama can and will do whatever he want's, just like when he bypassed federal law and extended the employee mandate. Throw a dart at the constitution and it'll land on something sob has violated.
 
Did you bother to ask yourself WHY corporations would outsource overseas? Do you think overly burdensome regulations, government requirements on business, a litigious nightmare of a society, and the highest corporate taxes in the world has anything to do with it?

How about we fix the heart of the problem instead of turning to the central planners that caused the problem in the first place?

You'll get no argument from me that our legal system is a scourge. The central planners had nothing to do with its rise - that's good old laissez faire at work. So what do we do about it?

You don't think the central planners, particularly the Democrat party, have created laws and bureaucratic rules to the lawyers benefit? Please. Why do you think they donate so much to the Dems?

To your question:
1) Loser pays
2) Low, flat tax rates with NO loopholes for anyone
3) Regulations based on results, not intentions
4) No minimum wage
5) No laws tying health insurance to one's employer
6) Repeal Obamacare
7) Generally, return the federal government to enumerated powers of the Constitution, as originally intended

That'd be a good start.
 
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In this excellent article, Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal explains how the corporate outsourcing of a large part of our economy is the culprit behind our deficits.

The real crisis is not the “debt ceiling crisis.” The government shutdown is merely a result of the Republicans using the debt limit ceiling to attempt to block the implementation of Obamacare. If the shutdown persists and becomes a problem, Obama has enough power under the various “war on terror” rulings to declare a national emergency and raise the debt ceiling by executive order. An executive branch that has the power to inter citizens indefinitely and to murder them without due process of law, can certainly set aside a ceiling on debt that jeopardizes the government.

The real crisis is that jobs offshoring by US corporations has permanently lowered US tax revenues by shifting what would have been consumer income, US GDP, and tax base to China, India, and other countries where wages and the cost of living are relatively low. On the spending side, twelve years of wars have inflated annual expenditures. The consequence is a wide deficit gap between revenues and expenditures.

Why the Debt Ceiling is a Distraction » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

I disagree largely with the point of the cited article. Tax income is NOT the problem by a LONG shot. We collected approximately 2.5 trillion dollars in 2012 with the number ever increasing. The recession caused a dip for a few years but we are, once again, receiving record revenue from taxes. The problem is that spending is also in record numbers and I have strong doubts that is ever going to change. Tax receipts have never been the issue - it is spending that is the problem.
I was hoping a few laissez faire ideologues or defenders of the 'job creators' might chime in.

It isn't just that I can pay Patel for pennies on the dollar that I can pay Paul, it's that there is an active anti-business climate in this country. Between the unwieldy numbers of laws and rules and regulations coming out of DC concerning each and every facet of business, to the added expenses that business owners get slapped with with the stroke of every politician's pen, to the fact that business owners are vilified for wanted to make money (the whole point of business in the first place), to the insane taxes here, why wouldn't I go overseas?

You're not alone in your perspective. Most businesses would prefer to externalize their expenses and one easy way to do that is by outsourcing overseas. What many business people fail to realize is what they get for their tax dollars. In many cases, the fundamental technologies they base their businesses upon were developed by government entities. Then there's defense and infrastructure, an educated workforce, etc. And completely outside the realm of implied responsibility is the existence of a market that can afford to buy the end product. And since no individual business owner wants to put themselves at a disadvantage to other business owners, the downward spiral continues unabated without government intervention. That's why I believe tariffs are necessary.

As much as I disagree with the OP and the article cited, this is also very true. The thought process behind incentivizing off shoring by making our climate hostile to business AND off shoring completely without consequence is really baffling. It is really nuts. The problem lies in a few things that MUST be accepted though. The right is completely correct in stating that tariffs cause one thing and that is the increase in cost for goods. That is a simple fact and politicians are really hesitant to bite that bullet. Further, by extension of causing things to cost more, it IS going to cause the standard of living in this nation to drop. That is another thing that is REALLY hard for politicians to accept because as soon as the people hear that they immediately go into replaces that guy mode. The problem, as you point out, is that not accepting those realities and continuing a free trade policy might be better off tomorrow but we are paying a FAR larger price in the long run as we lose jobs here to locations overseas.
 
Did you bother to ask yourself WHY corporations would outsource overseas? Do you think overly burdensome regulations, government requirements on business, a litigious nightmare of a society, and the highest corporate taxes in the world has anything to do with it?

How about we fix the heart of the problem instead of turning to the central planners that caused the problem in the first place?
Because that STILL does not address slave labor and other basic requirements that we should have. For instance, I fully support the idea that a company does not have the right to dump toxic waste in my local river. No one supports that. However, many third world nations simply don't give a damn even if the practice is supposed to be 'illegal.' The people there do not have the power to stop something that is completely wrong nor do they have the ability to chase the company out of business as they are not the purchasers of the product – we are. That creates a natural divide between the US and other nations. To be quite frank, there is no right for the Chinese to sell products to Americans or bring their products to market. If they want the PRIVILEGE to access American markets then I have no problem with the nation as a whole making certain demands of them including import tariffs.

I would also note that a government returned to the way the founders intended actually includes import taxes. That was how they funded government before the income tax and makes a LOT of sense to me not to mention furthering freedom.

If the shutdown persists and becomes a problem, Obama has enough power under the various “war on terror” rulings to declare a national emergency and raise the debt ceiling by executive order.

Like hell he does.
Funny that this seems to always be the answer that the left seeks. Obama is limited through the constitution and somehow the diehard democrats think that as long as they can rationalize something as 'reasonable' it suddenly gives government the power to accomplish it. Sick really. Such statements are pervasive in many of the 'solutions' that the democrats threaten they will use. I even heard the democrat talking heads stating that the republicans were being extra-constitutional in these debates but the president doing this through EO somehow was the CONSTITUTIONAL thing to do. Fucking insane but not surprising in the least.

It might not be good for the nation or even something that the founders intended (though I would disagree with the last) but that does not mean that the constitution should be utterly ignored because someone thinks it would be 'best' for us to do so.
 
Did you bother to ask yourself WHY corporations would outsource overseas? Do you think overly burdensome regulations, government requirements on business, a litigious nightmare of a society, and the highest corporate taxes in the world has anything to do with it?

How about we fix the heart of the problem instead of turning to the central planners that caused the problem in the first place?

You'll get no argument from me that our legal system is a scourge. The central planners had nothing to do with its rise - that's good old laissez faire at work. So what do we do about it?

You don't think the central planners, particularly the Democrat party, have created laws and bureaucratic rules to the lawyers benefit? Please. Why do you think they donate so much to the Dems?

To your question:
1) Loser pays
2) Low, flat tax rates with NO loopholes for anyone
3) Regulations based on results, not intentions
4) No minimum wage
5) No laws tying health insurance to one's employer
6) Repeal Obamacare
7) Generally, return the federal government to enumerated powers of the Constitution, as originally intended

That'd be a good start.

Lawyers are like administrators on steroids. They inject themselves into a system and will always find a way to make themselves 'indispensible'. I think of your ideas, maybe 1 and 3 are the only ones that i think could have some effect on putting the legal system in check.
 
If the shutdown persists and becomes a problem, Obama has enough power under the various “war on terror” rulings to declare a national emergency and raise the debt ceiling by executive order.

Like hell he does.
Funny that this seems to always be the answer that the left seeks. Obama is limited through the constitution and somehow the diehard democrats think that as long as they can rationalize something as 'reasonable' it suddenly gives government the power to accomplish it. Sick really. Such statements are pervasive in many of the 'solutions' that the democrats threaten they will use. I even heard the democrat talking heads stating that the republicans were being extra-constitutional in these debates but the president doing this through EO somehow was the CONSTITUTIONAL thing to do. Fucking insane but not surprising in the least.

It might not be good for the nation or even something that the founders intended (though I would disagree with the last) but that does not mean that the constitution should be utterly ignored because someone thinks it would be 'best' for us to do so.

I think we're generally on the same page with respect to trade imbalance and I also agree with your assessment of the short term difficulties in rectifying it.

This last issue that you and eflatminor are getting at is (I believe) the author being somewhat sarcastic about the liberties that Obama has taken with the security state. I don't think he really believes that he'd make such a blatant move.
 

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