The Dems & the GOP - Peas in a pod, again

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

People are starting to wake up. I think it's a worthwhile effort. I realize those of you deeply invested in your party might not see it, but it's happening.

Where are these people? I see more 'waking up' on the extremes. Politically speaking, we are drifting further into the current duopoly, not correcting it.

I realize this isn't much, but Amash had the balls to say enough is enough, and a Democrat representative from NY did as well.

We need just enough brave souls to get the momentum going.
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Amash was never a republican. He represents the odd libertarian like Paul that gets elected under one of the party. His break is nothing new nor shows any grater push to sanity than was there 20 years ago.

The litany of AOC's out there otoh is accelerating at a breathtaking pace.

That's the media's doing. Voter ignorance and apathy makes it easy for them. As a consequence, our elections have been treated like the equivalent of sporting events these days, and the advertising space is selling like hotcakes. This is where the USA shit the bed concerning our politics. People like AOC are given far larger platforms then they deserve explicitly because of the controversial opinions and sound bites they generate. It's all entertainment now.

No its not IMHO. The 'media' exists for one reason and one reason only - for profits. They report what and how they do because that is what we the people DEMAND. Should they try play the proper role they will simply be ignored.

There is some good reporting out there. If you (not YOU but the generic 'you') really wanted accurate political news then you would listen to C-Span's congressional session reporting, straight from the horses mouth, but almost no one does. Why? They do not want truth, facts or news. They want entertainment. That is more blatant now than ever with the massive growth of online news sources that are massively partisan, lie constantly and continually put less biased sources out of business. CNN, ABC and MSNBC have all gravitated more to the FOX model of 'news' and, in my opinion, CNN is outstripping them. Not because they are some cabal that wants to dominate the world (not that you said this but many here seem to think it is so) but because their consumers will get it from them or they will get it from somewhere else. The media in my mind is yet another excuse that people use to shift blame from themselves.

/rant over

Ya, the media bogeyman bothers me

No worries, it was a good rant. I come from the journo side of it, though. I saw what the encroachment of social media, adutorial (advertising + editorial) content and what the gross politicization tactics from publishers themselves did to ruin objective journalism first hand, and it has been a maddeningly helpless experience.

 

[G.T.]

Policy people


THAT is what matters. Behavior is a DISTANT 2nd place.

Leadership is the driver that gets us Policy. When the Potus is some sorta goofy salesman/celebrity, the partisans are gunna have a field day of either fan-worshipping or vehemently opposing him(or her), and not give any middle ground because the partisan-sphere requires a tragedy for middle-ground to occur, shy of a truly inspiring person in a Leadership position.

Every president is "opposed" by half the people in congress. Good ideas/bad ideas don't change because someone can wrangle cats.

Again, almost the only thing that matters is policy.

the policy they cant pass when theyre poor leaders?

Leaders don't write nor pass policy. They sign or veto it. Has NOTHING TO DO with the merits of any legislation written.
For instance THE LEFT currently want to control healthcare and allow illegals free reign. That platform/policy has NOTHING to do with Trump.
Another example is Obamacare. It was passed thanks to political kickbacks not leadership.

Your argument is invalid.

you didnt even address my argument, you dope

 

[Mac1958]

Just remember this is only in your mind.
Remember to take your meds and it will be all better.

Oh, good.

For a second there, I was worried my country was being dragged into the toilet by a bunch of nasty, hateful, ignorant, tribal, childish, dishonest nutters who can't think for themselves for even a minute.

Phew! What a freakin' relief!
.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Just remember this is only in your mind.
Remember to take your meds and it will be all better.

Oh, good.

For a second there, I was worried my country was being dragged into the toilet by a bunch of nasty, hateful, ignorant, tribal, childish, dishonest nutters who can't think for themselves for even a minute.

What a relief!
.

Remember, "truth isn't truth" anymore. Anything goes in this timeline.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Policy people


THAT is what matters. Behavior is a DISTANT 2nd place.

Leadership is the driver that gets us Policy. When the Potus is some sorta goofy salesman/celebrity, the partisans are gunna have a field day of either fan-worshipping or vehemently opposing him(or her), and not give any middle ground because the partisan-sphere requires a tragedy for middle-ground to occur, shy of a truly inspiring person in a Leadership position.

Every president is "opposed" by half the people in congress. Good ideas/bad ideas don't change because someone can wrangle cats.

Again, almost the only thing that matters is policy.

the policy they cant pass when theyre poor leaders?

Leaders don't write nor pass policy. They sign or veto it. Has NOTHING TO DO with the merits of any legislation written.
For instance THE LEFT currently want to control healthcare and allow illegals free reign. That platform/policy has NOTHING to do with Trump.
Another example is Obamacare. It was passed thanks to political kickbacks not leadership.

Your argument is invalid.

you didnt even address my argument, you dope

You don't have an argument worthy of addressing. When was the last time we had "good leadership"? For a couple weeks after 9/11? And even that is now in dispute.
Leadership neither writes nor passes legislation. Congress does that and I can't remember good leadership in congress in decades.

Policy matters. Policy affects my life.

 

[dblack]

That's nonsense. A vote for neither Clinton nor Trump was a vote for neither Clinton nor Trump. Period

100% wrong. Anyone who didn't vote for one of them essentially voted for the one they least preferred. That's a simple, mathematical fact. You're not going to get around that.

Bullshit. A vote for a third party candidate doesn't go to anyone else. It goes only to the candidate you voted for. Your view is a conceit to maintain the two-party system, a scare tactic to keep the lemmings in line.

Sadly, it works. And it's what we must combat to get away from the two-party death spiral. That's exactly why ranked choice voting is so important.

 

[G.T.]

Leadership is the driver that gets us Policy. When the Potus is some sorta goofy salesman/celebrity, the partisans are gunna have a field day of either fan-worshipping or vehemently opposing him(or her), and not give any middle ground because the partisan-sphere requires a tragedy for middle-ground to occur, shy of a truly inspiring person in a Leadership position.

Every president is "opposed" by half the people in congress. Good ideas/bad ideas don't change because someone can wrangle cats.

Again, almost the only thing that matters is policy.

the policy they cant pass when theyre poor leaders?

Leaders don't write nor pass policy. They sign or veto it. Has NOTHING TO DO with the merits of any legislation written.
For instance THE LEFT currently want to control healthcare and allow illegals free reign. That platform/policy has NOTHING to do with Trump.
Another example is Obamacare. It was passed thanks to political kickbacks not leadership.

Your argument is invalid.

you didnt even address my argument, you dope

You don't have an argument worthy of addressing. When was the last time we had "good leadership"? For a couple weeks after 9/11? And even that is now in dispute.
Leadership neither writes nor passes legislation. Congress does that and I can't remember good leadership in congress in decades.

Policy matters. Policy affects my life.

calm down, buddy

 

[FA_Q2]

That's nonsense. A vote for neither Clinton nor Trump was a vote for neither Clinton nor Trump. Period

100% wrong. Anyone who didn't vote for one of them essentially voted for the one they least preferred. That's a simple, mathematical fact. You're not going to get around that.

Bullshit. A vote for a third party candidate doesn't go to anyone else. It goes only to the candidate you voted for. Your view is a conceit to maintain the two-party system, a scare tactic to keep the lemmings in line.

Sadly, it works. And it's what we must combat to get away from the two-party death spiral. That's exactly why ranked choice voting is so important.

You must vote for one of the two parties because no third party candidate can win because you must vote for one of the two parties because no third par....

What is amazing is how transparent the circle is yet it is accepted as truth by so many.

 

[Mac1958]

That's nonsense. A vote for neither Clinton nor Trump was a vote for neither Clinton nor Trump. Period

100% wrong. Anyone who didn't vote for one of them essentially voted for the one they least preferred. That's a simple, mathematical fact. You're not going to get around that.

Bullshit. A vote for a third party candidate doesn't go to anyone else. It goes only to the candidate you voted for. Your view is a conceit to maintain the two-party system, a scare tactic to keep the lemmings in line.

Sadly, it works. And it's what we must combat to get away from the two-party death spiral. That's exactly why ranked choice voting is so important.

You must vote for one of the two parties because no third party candidate can win because you must vote for one of the two parties because no third par....

What is amazing is how transparent the circle is yet it is accepted as truth by so many.

The parties have figured out that getting people to hate the "other" can be a winning strategy. Who cares if it's good for the country.

We see it manifest in here, all day, every day.
.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Another attempt to blame the piss poor candidates and shit parties on those that DO NOT SUPPORT them rather than those that actually voted for that crap. This is as illogical as it gets.

100% wrong. Slow down. The factual statement i made is due to the fact that we have a rigid, 2 party system. I'm not blaming anyone or anything but our openly corrupt election financing. That is the reaaon only 2 people could possibly have won the presidency in 2019.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You must vote for one of the two parties because no third party candidate can win

Fact. And, as long as our corrupt election finance system remains in place, it will stay that way.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A vote for a third party candidate doesn't go to anyone else

100% wrong. Only 1 of 2 people can possibly win the presidency. And if you dont vote for one of them, the net result is that you cast a vote for the 1 of the 2 you least prefer.

Sorry, my man. That is a simple, mathematical reality that you are just not going to talk your way out of.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The parties have figured out that getting people to hate the "other" can be a winning strategy.

Yeah, since democracy was invented...

 

[FA_Q2]

Another attempt to blame the piss poor candidates and shit parties on those that DO NOT SUPPORT them rather than those that actually voted for that crap. This is as illogical as it gets.

100% wrong. Slow down. The factual statement i made is due to the fact that we have a rigid, 2 party system. I'm not blaming anyone or anything but our openly corrupt election financing. That is the reaaon only 2 people could possibly have won the presidency in 2019.

Except that only 2 people can win is a directly false statement, period. It exists as the only possibility for as long as people buy into the direct lie that you started this with: that voting for a third party is actually voting for the one you like least. This is nothing more than an emotional appeal to force people into supporting politicians that do not align with their interests or political goals.

There is one and ONLY one way for third parties to become more relevant today and it is not by those supporting them to disregard them in elections. The ONLY way they become relevant is gathering more votes. Voting for another candidate puts your support there, not with one of the major parties and it is not a vote for ether one of them.

 

[FA_Q2]

A vote for a third party candidate doesn't go to anyone else

100% wrong. Only 1 of 2 people can possibly win the presidency. And if you dont vote for one of them, the net result is that you cast a vote for the 1 of the 2 you least prefer.

Sorry, my man. That is a simple, mathematical reality that you are just not going to talk your way out of.

Sorry man, that is circular 'logic.'

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Except that only 2 people can win is a directly false statement, period.

Nope, it's a fact. You can complain about it all you like, but it's a fact. It is also technically true that the happy meal you bought in 1985 might appear in you lap today due to quantum tunneling. But we can safely call it fact that this won't happen.

You are going to have to come to terms with this as the current state of affairs. If you dont like it, then you need to try to change the system. Because your third party candidate is NOT going to win. Not ever, with this system in place.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A vote for a third party candidate doesn't go to anyone else

100% wrong. Only 1 of 2 people can possibly win the presidency. And if you dont vote for one of them, the net result is that you cast a vote for the 1 of the 2 you least prefer.

Sorry, my man. That is a simple, mathematical reality that you are just not going to talk your way out of.

Sorry man, that is circular 'logic.'

No, it's a fact. Better learn that.

 

[DOTR]

Well these two parties they both act like parties. They both have a chairman GD wingers. They both have fundraisers and by god they both try to win elections! Just look how they act like each other! Just when everybody is complaining the Democrats want to win the presidency here come the republicans wanting to win the presidency! This is too easy his similar they are!

Oh, it goes much deeper (and more amusing) than that.

Here's a few counter-productive behaviors shared by both ends:

• Deflection (so vividly displayed by both parties right here in this thread!)
• Tribalism
• Distortion
  
• Intellectual Myopia
• Straw Man Arguments
• Obtuseness
• Willful Ignorance
• Name-Calling
• Nasty Personal Insults
• Hypocrisy
• Hate
• Blatant Lies

.... off the top of my pointy little head.
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You could do a list of every human behavior and find people of every political stripe engaged in them. The diff you consistently ignore is the predominance of behaviors - even ideological requirement - in different political groups. Just because some in one group do it does not justify the actions of many (or all) in another.

I am often amused at your penchant for wallowing in moral equivalence fallicies to justify the behavior of the left.

For instance, do you find the current Dem defense of ILLEGAL immigration to be against America's best interest, contrary to their oaths of office and arguably traitorous behavior, and can you respond with something other than "but the Repubs...?"

You're moving to issues again. That has never been my point.

The behaviors - counter-productive and destructive - are consistently similar. And that's why I think wingers are our biggest problem.
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I think you are a winger...Pol Pot was to the left of you true...and most Americans to the right. But there you are.

 

[Mac1958]

I think you are a winger...Pol Pot was to the left of you true...and most Americans to the right. But there you are.

Okay thanks!
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[DOTR]

I think you are a winger...Pol Pot was to the left of you true...and most Americans to the right. But there you are.

Okay thanks!
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Dont mention it. I do this for free.