The Dems & the GOP - Peas in a pod, again

[dblack]

There are always exceptions, but for the most part, most of the ___________ vote for the _________ in the _____________ Party. Purely out of hatred for someone or something.

Thanks. Way to unknowingly nail the point of the OP, genius.

It just doesn't stop, y'know?
.

It does not as long as what mudwhistle said is true, and it is. The last part that is.

People tend to vote because they fear or hate the other side. As long as we vote based on the lesser of two evils because the other guy eats babies every night Trump is what we will end up with.

I used to think it was a core problem of having parties but I am not so sure that is where the problem lies. I think it is more a problem with how the parties select their candidates. The primaries, by FAR the most important time to vote, are ignored by almost anyone that is not a partisan 'winger' leaving the rest of us to chose from candidates that have done nothing but play to the extremes and have been vetted by them. By then, it is just a matter of convincing the rest of us that the other guy is more extreme than they are.

We get what we deserve and an apathetic electorate deserves Trump.

I couldn't agree more. The primaries are hard swings to the extreme and then the summer of the election is trying to win the middle. The extremists on both sides are dictating who we get in office and leads to the lesser of two evils. I went third party because I hate voting for the lesser of two evils, why in the hell would anyone vote for evil?

Well, here's hoping a new option shows up soon.

I just don't know how.
.

Public financing of elections!

I really, really hope you're kidding.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It just doesn't stop, y'know?
.

It does not as long as what mudwhistle said is true, and it is. The last part that is.

People tend to vote because they fear or hate the other side. As long as we vote based on the lesser of two evils because the other guy eats babies every night Trump is what we will end up with.

I used to think it was a core problem of having parties but I am not so sure that is where the problem lies. I think it is more a problem with how the parties select their candidates. The primaries, by FAR the most important time to vote, are ignored by almost anyone that is not a partisan 'winger' leaving the rest of us to chose from candidates that have done nothing but play to the extremes and have been vetted by them. By then, it is just a matter of convincing the rest of us that the other guy is more extreme than they are.

We get what we deserve and an apathetic electorate deserves Trump.

I couldn't agree more. The primaries are hard swings to the extreme and then the summer of the election is trying to win the middle. The extremists on both sides are dictating who we get in office and leads to the lesser of two evils. I went third party because I hate voting for the lesser of two evils, why in the hell would anyone vote for evil?

Well, here's hoping a new option shows up soon.

I just don't know how.
.

Public financing of elections!

I really, really hope you're kidding.

Nope. It would help tremendously.

 

[FA_Q2]

Why the focus on BEHAVIOR Mac?

From my perspective it would appear that you are trying to avoid the shit that actually matters. You know, the outlandish shit your new party is trying to push on AMERICANS

I dunno. I've just always been fascinated by behaviors and motivations.

When person A insults person B, I don't think about the insult or person B, I wonder about person A and their motivation for needing to insult.

I guess that's just the way my little brain works.

It's not like I'm going to change any minds with these silly "debates" here. You don't really think YOU are, do you? And do you really derive anything positive from insulting and name-calling? I doubt it.
.

Oh Mac what motivates you to be blind to your own behavior?

If you're not going to change any minds why start thread after thread after thread after thread about how bad the political parties are but oh, you're so much better?

People are starting to wake up. I think it's a worthwhile effort. I realize those of you deeply invested in your party might not see it, but it's happening.

Where are these people? I see more 'waking up' on the extremes. Politically speaking, we are drifting further into the current duopoly, not correcting it.

 

[dblack]

I went third party because I hate voting for the lesser of two evils, why in the hell would anyone vote for evil?

And yet you did. Your protest vote was actually a vote for the candidate you least preferred between clinton and trump.

That's nonsense. A vote for neither Clinton nor Trump was a vote for neither Clinton nor Trump. Period. Seriously. You can claim that a third party vote is a vote for Trump, but you can equally claim that it's a vote for Clinton. Neither is true.

 

[FA_Q2]

It just doesn't stop, y'know?
.

It does not as long as what mudwhistle said is true, and it is. The last part that is.

People tend to vote because they fear or hate the other side. As long as we vote based on the lesser of two evils because the other guy eats babies every night Trump is what we will end up with.

I used to think it was a core problem of having parties but I am not so sure that is where the problem lies. I think it is more a problem with how the parties select their candidates. The primaries, by FAR the most important time to vote, are ignored by almost anyone that is not a partisan 'winger' leaving the rest of us to chose from candidates that have done nothing but play to the extremes and have been vetted by them. By then, it is just a matter of convincing the rest of us that the other guy is more extreme than they are.

We get what we deserve and an apathetic electorate deserves Trump.

I couldn't agree more. The primaries are hard swings to the extreme and then the summer of the election is trying to win the middle. The extremists on both sides are dictating who we get in office and leads to the lesser of two evils. I went third party because I hate voting for the lesser of two evils, why in the hell would anyone vote for evil?

Well, here's hoping a new option shows up soon.

I just don't know how.
.

Public financing of elections!

I really, really hope you're kidding.

Someone debated me on this a few years ago here and they put up a damn good argument. Cant say I am against publicly funded elections anymore - I just do not see how that would be less effective than what we are doing now.

There are better solutions, like the one you mentioned, but that does not mean publicly funded elections would not improve what we currently have.

 

[Mac1958]

Why the focus on BEHAVIOR Mac?

From my perspective it would appear that you are trying to avoid the shit that actually matters. You know, the outlandish shit your new party is trying to push on AMERICANS

I dunno. I've just always been fascinated by behaviors and motivations.

When person A insults person B, I don't think about the insult or person B, I wonder about person A and their motivation for needing to insult.

I guess that's just the way my little brain works.

It's not like I'm going to change any minds with these silly "debates" here. You don't really think YOU are, do you? And do you really derive anything positive from insulting and name-calling? I doubt it.
.

Oh Mac what motivates you to be blind to your own behavior?

If you're not going to change any minds why start thread after thread after thread after thread about how bad the political parties are but oh, you're so much better?

People are starting to wake up. I think it's a worthwhile effort. I realize those of you deeply invested in your party might not see it, but it's happening.

Where are these people? I see more 'waking up' on the extremes. Politically speaking, we are drifting further into the current duopoly, not correcting it.

I realize this isn't much, but Amash had the balls to say enough is enough, and a Democrat representative from NY did as well.

We need just enough brave souls to get the momentum going.
.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's nonsense. A vote for neither Clinton nor Trump was a vote for neither Clinton nor Trump. Period

100% wrong. Anyone who didn't vote for one of them essentially voted for the one they least preferred. That's a simple, mathematical fact. You're not going to get around that.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

There are always exceptions, but for the most part, most of the ___________ vote for the _________ in the _____________ Party. Purely out of hatred for someone or something.

Thanks. Way to unknowingly nail the point of the OP, genius.

It just doesn't stop, y'know?
.

It does not as long as what mudwhistle said is true, and it is. The last part that is.

People tend to vote because they fear or hate the other side. As long as we vote based on the lesser of two evils because the other guy eats babies every night Trump is what we will end up with.

I used to think it was a core problem of having parties but I am not so sure that is where the problem lies. I think it is more a problem with how the parties select their candidates. The primaries, by FAR the most important time to vote, are ignored by almost anyone that is not a partisan 'winger' leaving the rest of us to chose from candidates that have done nothing but play to the extremes and have been vetted by them. By then, it is just a matter of convincing the rest of us that the other guy is more extreme than they are.

We get what we deserve and an apathetic electorate deserves Trump.

Yeah, there has to be something that can fixed in that process, a way that the extremes have less influence on both candidates and issues.

At the same time, that hasn't always been needed. We've allowed this to get shittier and shittier with time.

(I'd like to point out that the USMB spellchecker is fine with "shittier")
.

I still think the problem is baked into our election system. Ranked choice voting would go a long way toward promoting consensus, rather than partisanship.

In this I agree. We have needed ranked voting for awhile now. It comes right back to an apathetic electorate. We will never see change until we start taking responsibility and, unfortunately, we will not take responsibility until it is really bad and likely far to late. This is the problem with having a system that is wildly successful.

I feel personal responsibility has been rendered obsolete in today's society, hence the apathetic electorate problem.

 

[FA_Q2]

Why the focus on BEHAVIOR Mac?

From my perspective it would appear that you are trying to avoid the shit that actually matters. You know, the outlandish shit your new party is trying to push on AMERICANS

I dunno. I've just always been fascinated by behaviors and motivations.

When person A insults person B, I don't think about the insult or person B, I wonder about person A and their motivation for needing to insult.

I guess that's just the way my little brain works.

It's not like I'm going to change any minds with these silly "debates" here. You don't really think YOU are, do you? And do you really derive anything positive from insulting and name-calling? I doubt it.
.

Oh Mac what motivates you to be blind to your own behavior?

If you're not going to change any minds why start thread after thread after thread after thread about how bad the political parties are but oh, you're so much better?

People are starting to wake up. I think it's a worthwhile effort. I realize those of you deeply invested in your party might not see it, but it's happening.

Where are these people? I see more 'waking up' on the extremes. Politically speaking, we are drifting further into the current duopoly, not correcting it.

I realize this isn't much, but Amash had the balls to say enough is enough, and a Democrat representative from NY did as well.

We need just enough brave souls to get the momentum going.
.

Amash was never a republican. He represents the odd libertarian like Paul that gets elected under one of the party. His break is nothing new nor shows any grater push to sanity than was there 20 years ago.

The litany of AOC's out there otoh is accelerating at a breathtaking pace.

 

[Mac1958]

I dunno. I've just always been fascinated by behaviors and motivations.

When person A insults person B, I don't think about the insult or person B, I wonder about person A and their motivation for needing to insult.

I guess that's just the way my little brain works.

It's not like I'm going to change any minds with these silly "debates" here. You don't really think YOU are, do you? And do you really derive anything positive from insulting and name-calling? I doubt it.
.

Oh Mac what motivates you to be blind to your own behavior?

If you're not going to change any minds why start thread after thread after thread after thread about how bad the political parties are but oh, you're so much better?

People are starting to wake up. I think it's a worthwhile effort. I realize those of you deeply invested in your party might not see it, but it's happening.

Where are these people? I see more 'waking up' on the extremes. Politically speaking, we are drifting further into the current duopoly, not correcting it.

I realize this isn't much, but Amash had the balls to say enough is enough, and a Democrat representative from NY did as well.

We need just enough brave souls to get the momentum going.
.

Amash was never a republican. He represents the odd libertarian like Paul that gets elected under one of the party. His break is nothing new nor shows any grater push to sanity than was there 20 years ago.

The litany of AOC's out there otoh is accelerating at a breathtaking pace.

Well, I can't argue with that, but all I can do is hope for the best.

These people are killing us.
.

 

[FA_Q2]

That's nonsense. A vote for neither Clinton nor Trump was a vote for neither Clinton nor Trump. Period

100% wrong. Anyone who didn't vote for one of them essentially voted for the one they least preferred. That's a simple, mathematical fact. You're not going to get around that.

Another attempt to blame the piss poor candidates and shit parties on those that DO NOT SUPPORT them rather than those that actually voted for that crap. This is as illogical as it gets.

This has been the tired line for a long time. Somehow not voting for Trump meant that I voted for Hillary and not voting for Hillary means I voted for Trump at the same time.

I feel personal responsibility has been rendered obsolete in today's society, hence the apathetic electorate problem.

Ha, and Fort Fun chimes in just in time to bolster your statement. LOL.

 

[gipper]

Why the focus on BEHAVIOR Mac?

From my perspective it would appear that you are trying to avoid the shit that actually matters. You know, the outlandish shit your new party is trying to push on AMERICANS

I dunno. I've just always been fascinated by behaviors and motivations.

When person A insults person B, I don't think about the insult or person B, I wonder about person A and their motivation for needing to insult.

I guess that's just the way my little brain works.

It's not like I'm going to change any minds with these silly "debates" here. You don't really think YOU are, do you? And do you really derive anything positive from insulting and name-calling? I doubt it.
.

Oh Mac what motivates you to be blind to your own behavior?

If you're not going to change any minds why start thread after thread after thread after thread about how bad the political parties are but oh, you're so much better?

People are starting to wake up. I think it's a worthwhile effort. I realize those of you deeply invested in your party might not see it, but it's happening.

I hope you are right because if you aren’t, the idiots in the Imperial Capital likely will cause the extermination of our species.

Caitlin Johnstone has a good summation...here
US Foreign Policy Is a War on Disobedience - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

 

[Papageorgio]

I went third party because I hate voting for the lesser of two evils, why in the hell would anyone vote for evil?

And yet you did. Your protest vote was actually a vote for the candidate you least preferred between clinton and trump.

No it was for the candidate I felt was the best and I proudly stand for my vote. Had I voted for either Clinton or Trump, I would have been embarrassed with my vote.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I dunno. I've just always been fascinated by behaviors and motivations.

When person A insults person B, I don't think about the insult or person B, I wonder about person A and their motivation for needing to insult.

I guess that's just the way my little brain works.

It's not like I'm going to change any minds with these silly "debates" here. You don't really think YOU are, do you? And do you really derive anything positive from insulting and name-calling? I doubt it.
.

Oh Mac what motivates you to be blind to your own behavior?

If you're not going to change any minds why start thread after thread after thread after thread about how bad the political parties are but oh, you're so much better?

People are starting to wake up. I think it's a worthwhile effort. I realize those of you deeply invested in your party might not see it, but it's happening.

Where are these people? I see more 'waking up' on the extremes. Politically speaking, we are drifting further into the current duopoly, not correcting it.

I realize this isn't much, but Amash had the balls to say enough is enough, and a Democrat representative from NY did as well.

We need just enough brave souls to get the momentum going.
.

Amash was never a republican. He represents the odd libertarian like Paul that gets elected under one of the party. His break is nothing new nor shows any grater push to sanity than was there 20 years ago.

The litany of AOC's out there otoh is accelerating at a breathtaking pace.

That's the media's doing. Voter ignorance and apathy makes it easy for them. As a consequence, our elections have been treated like the equivalent of sporting events these days, and the advertising space is selling like hotcakes. This is where the USA shit the bed concerning our politics. People like AOC are given far larger platforms then they deserve explicitly because of the controversial opinions and sound bites they generate. It's all entertainment now.

 

[FA_Q2]

Oh Mac what motivates you to be blind to your own behavior?

If you're not going to change any minds why start thread after thread after thread after thread about how bad the political parties are but oh, you're so much better?

People are starting to wake up. I think it's a worthwhile effort. I realize those of you deeply invested in your party might not see it, but it's happening.

Where are these people? I see more 'waking up' on the extremes. Politically speaking, we are drifting further into the current duopoly, not correcting it.

I realize this isn't much, but Amash had the balls to say enough is enough, and a Democrat representative from NY did as well.

We need just enough brave souls to get the momentum going.
.

Amash was never a republican. He represents the odd libertarian like Paul that gets elected under one of the party. His break is nothing new nor shows any grater push to sanity than was there 20 years ago.

The litany of AOC's out there otoh is accelerating at a breathtaking pace.

That's the media's doing. Voter ignorance and apathy makes it easy for them. As a consequence, our elections have been treated like the equivalent of sporting events these days, and the advertising space is selling like hotcakes. This is where the USA shit the bed concerning our politics. People like AOC are given far larger platforms then they deserve explicitly because of the controversial opinions and sound bites they generate. It's all entertainment now.

No its not IMHO. The 'media' exists for one reason and one reason only - for profits. They report what and how they do because that is what we the people DEMAND. Should they try play the proper role they will simply be ignored.

There is some good reporting out there. If you (not YOU but the generic 'you') really wanted accurate political news then you would listen to C-Span's congressional session reporting, straight from the horses mouth, but almost no one does. Why? They do not want truth, facts or news. They want entertainment. That is more blatant now than ever with the massive growth of online news sources that are massively partisan, lie constantly and continually put less biased sources out of business. CNN, ABC and MSNBC have all gravitated more to the FOX model of 'news' and, in my opinion, CNN is outstripping them. Not because they are some cabal that wants to dominate the world (not that you said this but many here seem to think it is so) but because their consumers will get it from them or they will get it from somewhere else. The media in my mind is yet another excuse that people use to shift blame from themselves.

/rant over

Ya, the media bogeyman bothers me

 

[sartre play]

No it is not possible for some label you put on your self or on others to like magic form a clear cut divide that makes people like your self have principals and those not like you have none. in fact having principals covers a pretty broad range & wont conform to your personal rule.

 

[mudwhistle]

Here's a few counter-productive behaviors shared by both ends:

And by you and your fellow "independents".

So what do you hope to accomplish with the smug hypocrisy?

Oh, that's right, the point is to run cover for the right.

I wonder if you've noticed how wingers from both ends have jumped in to bitch and/or deflect.

Which supports my point so vividly.

I'm guessing you haven't. I'm not shocked. As I said, peas in a pod.
.

Just remember this is only in your mind.
Remember to take your meds and it will be all better.

 

[mudwhistle]

Most everyone has principles.

Claiming that my tribe does and yours doesn't is an example of tribalism.
.

There are simple facts in politics that we have to face up to.
There are always exceptions, but for the most part, most of the degenerates vote for the commies in the Democrat Party. Purely out of hatred for someone or something.

There are always exceptions, but for the most part, most of the ___________ vote for the _________ in the _____________ Party. Purely out of hatred for someone or something.

Thanks. Way to unknowingly nail the point of the OP, genius.

It just doesn't stop, y'know?
.

It does not as long as what mudwhistle said is true, and it is. The last part that is.

People tend to vote because they fear or hate the other side. As long as we vote based on the lesser of two evils because the other guy eats babies every night Trump is what we will end up with.

I used to think it was a core problem of having parties but I am not so sure that is where the problem lies. I think it is more a problem with how the parties select their candidates. The primaries, by FAR the most important time to vote, are ignored by almost anyone that is not a partisan 'winger' leaving the rest of us to chose from candidates that have done nothing but play to the extremes and have been vetted by them. By then, it is just a matter of convincing the rest of us that the other guy is more extreme than they are.

We get what we deserve and an apathetic electorate deserves Trump.

I couldn't agree more. The primaries are hard swings to the extreme and then the summer of the election is trying to win the middle. The extremists on both sides are dictating who we get in office and leads to the lesser of two evils. I went third party because I hate voting for the lesser of two evils, why in the hell would anyone vote for evil?

Hate to tell you this, but until Trump came along we really didn't have much of a choice on who to vote for. All choices were hand picked and bad options.
The primary reason Trump seems like the lessor of two evils is because he gets absolutely no good media coverage. So it's no surprise so many are apathetic

 

[Correll]

Obviously you can't read.
Having principles isn't an issue.

Ah, your tribe has principles and the other tribe doesn't. Tribalism.

Yeah, that's on the list.
.

It is completely possible for one group to have principles and the other not.


Your dismissal as though it is not, is not reasonable.

The fact that someone else's principles don't align with yours doesn't mean they don't have principles.

Seriously, I really would think that something this obvious wouldn't even need to be said.
.

That is obviously true.


But one can judge other people based on how well they live up to those principles. And/or whether those principles are very valid.


ANd it is still possible for one group to have principles and another not to.

However, the left clearly has values. They are not hard to see. That they may be wrong or misplaced is another matter. However, it is genuinely blind to state that they have none.

Mac is operating on the assumption that any such judgement of groups can only be based on bias.


That is not true.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Policy people


THAT is what matters. Behavior is a DISTANT 2nd place.

Leadership is the driver that gets us Policy. When the Potus is some sorta goofy salesman/celebrity, the partisans are gunna have a field day of either fan-worshipping or vehemently opposing him(or her), and not give any middle ground because the partisan-sphere requires a tragedy for middle-ground to occur, shy of a truly inspiring person in a Leadership position.

Every president is "opposed" by half the people in congress. Good ideas/bad ideas don't change because someone can wrangle cats.

Again, almost the only thing that matters is policy.

the policy they cant pass when theyre poor leaders?

Leaders don't write nor pass policy. They sign or veto it. Has NOTHING TO DO with the merits of any legislation written.
For instance THE LEFT currently want to control healthcare and allow illegals free reign. That platform/policy has NOTHING to do with Trump.
Another example is Obamacare. It was passed thanks to political kickbacks not leadership.

Your argument is invalid.