The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[dblack]

I don't believe anybody should pay anybody, ever, more than they owe.

Do you think we 'owe' insurance companies?

I think that their policy holders owe them their premiums in return for spreading real world, clearly understood risks among all of their policy holders.

That's a dodge. Your solution isn't about responsibility. It isn't about paying what you owe. It's about forcing everyone else to support your idea of a 'shared' solution.

 

[PMZ]

Do you think we 'owe' insurance companies?

I think that their policy holders owe them their premiums in return for spreading real world, clearly understood risks among all of their policy holders.

That's a dodge. Your solution isn't about responsibility. It isn't about paying what you owe. It's about forcing everyone else to support your idea of a 'shared' solution.

I have no idea what you're saying.

What's my solution? Who do I owe? What shared solution? What am I dodging?

 

[dblack]

I think that their policy holders owe them their premiums in return for spreading real world, clearly understood risks among all of their policy holders.

That's a dodge. Your solution isn't about responsibility. It isn't about paying what you owe. It's about forcing everyone else to support your idea of a 'shared' solution.

I have no idea what you're saying.

What's my solution? Who do I owe? What shared solution? What am I dodging?

You're pretending ACA enforces responsibility, that it ensures that we pay what we owe. How, exactly? It doesn't do anything to require that we pay our bills. It just forces us to buy insurance from government appointed vendors. Insurance is not health care. it's not responsbility. it is the opposite. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your decisions. Insurance is avoiding the consequences of your decisions, paying for the privilege of having no responsibility.

 

[PMZ]

That's a dodge. Your solution isn't about responsibility. It isn't about paying what you owe. It's about forcing everyone else to support your idea of a 'shared' solution.

I have no idea what you're saying.

What's my solution? Who do I owe? What shared solution? What am I dodging?

You're pretending ACA enforces responsibility, that it ensures that we pay what we owe. How, exactly? It doesn't do anything to require that we pay our bills. It just forces us to buy insurance from government appointed vendors. Insurance is not health care. it's not responsbility. it is the opposite. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your decisions. Insurance is avoiding the consequences of your decisions, paying for the privilege of having no responsibility.

When you pay your health care premiums how many people's treatments were covered? You have no idea. Yours certainly. But how about the 25 year old who was so convinced he was immortal until the car accident. The hospital didn't turn him away, they fixed him and added his cost to yours.

Personal responsibility advocates would say it would be better if the 25 year old took responsibility for his health care costs.

And what's this "government appointed vendors"?

"Insurance is not health care. it's not responsbility. it is the opposite. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your decisions."

WTF? When you pay insurance premiums the entire point is that the insurance company is being paid to spread risk. You are paying a fixed premium that covers your costs be they lower, average, or unaffordable by you.

It's the most responsible thing.

 

[dblack]

I have no idea what you're saying.

What's my solution? Who do I owe? What shared solution? What am I dodging?

You're pretending ACA enforces responsibility, that it ensures that we pay what we owe. How, exactly? It doesn't do anything to require that we pay our bills. It just forces us to buy insurance from government appointed vendors. Insurance is not health care. it's not responsbility. it is the opposite. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your decisions. Insurance is avoiding the consequences of your decisions, paying for the privilege of having no responsibility.

When you pay your health care premiums how many people's treatments were covered? You have no idea. Yours certainly. But how about the 25 year old who was so convinced he was immortal until the car accident. The hospital didn't turn him away, they fixed him and added his cost to yours.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. The only thing requiring that this happens is an ill-conceived regulation (EMTALA). The way to deal with ill-conceived regulations is to repeal them - not double down on the stupid with even more idiotic regulation.

Personal responsibility advocates would say it would be better if the 25 year old took responsibility for his health care costs.

Again, insurance isn't 'responsibility'. It's just insurance.

And what's this "government appointed vendors"?

The government mandates 'minumum coverage' requirements and sets up exchanges for the corporations who lobbied them.

"Insurance is not health care. it's not responsbility. it is the opposite. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your decisions."

WTF? When you pay insurance premiums the entire point is that the insurance company is being paid to spread risk. You are paying a fixed premium that covers your costs be they lower, average, or unaffordable by you.

It's the most responsible thing.

No. Insurance is paying to avoid responsibility. Real responsibility would be paying for the health care expenses you incur - not 'spreading the risk' on others.

 

[PMZ]

You're pretending ACA enforces responsibility, that it ensures that we pay what we owe. How, exactly? It doesn't do anything to require that we pay our bills. It just forces us to buy insurance from government appointed vendors. Insurance is not health care. it's not responsbility. it is the opposite. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your decisions. Insurance is avoiding the consequences of your decisions, paying for the privilege of having no responsibility.

When you pay your health care premiums how many people's treatments were covered? You have no idea. Yours certainly. But how about the 25 year old who was so convinced he was immortal until the car accident. The hospital didn't turn him away, they fixed him and added his cost to yours.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. The only thing requiring that this happens is an ill-conceived regulation (EMTALA). The way to deal with ill-conceived regulations is to repeal them - not double down on the stupid with even more idiotic regulation.



Again, insurance isn't 'responsibility'. It's just insurance.



The government mandates 'minumum coverage' requirements and sets up exchanges for the corporations who lobbied them.

"Insurance is not health care. it's not responsbility. it is the opposite. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your decisions."

WTF? When you pay insurance premiums the entire point is that the insurance company is being paid to spread risk. You are paying a fixed premium that covers your costs be they lower, average, or unaffordable by you.

It's the most responsible thing.

No. Insurance is paying to avoid responsibility. Real responsibility would be paying for the health care expenses you incur - not 'spreading the risk' on others.

You're absolutely wrong.

If you can afford to cover the worst case cost scenario of health care, auto collision, auto liability, home replacement, loss of life, etc costs, don't buy insurance. If you can't, you pay for the average loss in all those things and the insurance company uses the excess premiums paid by the luckier than average to pay the claims of those more unlucky than average.

That’s what insurance does!

 

[PMZ]

When you pay your health care premiums how many people's treatments were covered? You have no idea. Yours certainly. But how about the 25 year old who was so convinced he was immortal until the car accident. The hospital didn't turn him away, they fixed him and added his cost to yours.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. The only thing requiring that this happens is an ill-conceived regulation (EMTALA). The way to deal with ill-conceived regulations is to repeal them - not double down on the stupid with even more idiotic regulation.



Again, insurance isn't 'responsibility'. It's just insurance.



The government mandates 'minumum coverage' requirements and sets up exchanges for the corporations who lobbied them.

No. Insurance is paying to avoid responsibility. Real responsibility would be paying for the health care expenses you incur - not 'spreading the risk' on others.

You're absolutely wrong.

If you can afford to cover the worst case cost scenario of health care, auto collision, auto liability, home replacement, loss of life, etc costs, don't buy insurance. If you can't, you pay for the average loss in all those things and the insurance company uses the excess premiums paid by the luckier than average to pay the claims of those more unlucky than average.

That’s what insurance does!

I've been to countries where people have no option but die in the streets. They don't go quietly into that good night. They will, like all of us, do whatever it takes to survive. I would not choose to live in a country like that.

 

[dblack]

I've been to countries where people have no option but die in the streets. They don't go quietly into that good night. They will, like all of us, do whatever it takes to survive. I would not choose to live in a country like that.

Dragons at the gate.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I've been to countries where people have no option but die in the streets. They don't go quietly into that good night. They will, like all of us, do whatever it takes to survive. I would not choose to live in a country like that.

Dragons at the gate.

well at least it is reassuring to know according to Kathleen Sebelius

that men often need maternity care

--LOL

 

[P@triot]

Don't need anything from you gramps.

You are in dire need of an education...it is embarrassing watching you twist as you do.

Do you really consider your GED an education? I guess compared to most Conservatives, maybe so. But to be a conservative no education is required. Just watch, listen and repeat.

Says the man who can't hold a job so he wants communism so the government will force conservatives to pay for him...

 

[P@triot]

" how much extra do you send in in taxes?"

Good example of grossly over simplified black and white conservative non thinking.

You're either the kind of person who considers taxes illegal government seizure of your personal assets, or you send them extra money that you don't owe.

Apparently this level of thinking is sufficient to run a business.

In other words - PMZ will never work to be part of the solution himself. Instead, he wants to force you to provide the solution for him.

And how funny is it that even simple black & white solutions scare him? Like a typical libtard Dumbocrat, he feels the "solution" can only come from a 2,500 page government bill...

Antares just exposed your hypocrisy junior. You're a parasite who only takes from the system. You never give back. You buffoon's crave all of the spending but never send any extra tax revenue to the government to help pay for it all.

 

[P@triot]

You're pretending ACA enforces responsibility, that it ensures that we pay what we owe. How, exactly? It doesn't do anything to require that we pay our bills. It just forces us to buy insurance from government appointed vendors. Insurance is not health care. it's not responsbility. it is the opposite. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your decisions. Insurance is avoiding the consequences of your decisions, paying for the privilege of having no responsibility.

When you pay your health care premiums how many people's treatments were covered? You have no idea. Yours certainly. But how about the 25 year old who was so convinced he was immortal until the car accident. The hospital didn't turn him away, they fixed him and added his cost to yours.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. The only thing requiring that this happens is an ill-conceived regulation (EMTALA). The way to deal with ill-conceived regulations is to repeal them - not double down on the stupid with even more idiotic regulation.

The problem is, the ignorant Dumbocrat only knows one thing: when their policy fails, it's only because they didn't go far enough with their policy

They will never examine the results if their ideology and accept it is a failed ideology.

 

[dblack]

When you pay your health care premiums how many people's treatments were covered? You have no idea. Yours certainly. But how about the 25 year old who was so convinced he was immortal until the car accident. The hospital didn't turn him away, they fixed him and added his cost to yours.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. The only thing requiring that this happens is an ill-conceived regulation (EMTALA). The way to deal with ill-conceived regulations is to repeal them - not double down on the stupid with even more idiotic regulation.

The problem is, the ignorant Dumbocrat only knows one thing: when their policy fails, it's only because they didn't go far enough with their policy

They will never examine the results if their ideology and accept it is a failed ideology.

If two wrongs don't make a right, try three!

 

[P@triot]

I've been to countries where people have no option but die in the streets. They don't go quietly into that good night. They will, like all of us, do whatever it takes to survive. I would not choose to live in a country like that.

Good - then get the fuck out of America (since you hate everything about it anyway). Someone's irresponsibility is not my problem junior.

You and your Dumbocrat pals pretend to care so much - yet none of you will start your own insurance company to cover these people or create a charity which covers everything for these people. I wonder why that is?

 

[PMZ]

I've been to countries where people have no option but die in the streets. They don't go quietly into that good night. They will, like all of us, do whatever it takes to survive. I would not choose to live in a country like that.

Dragons at the gate.

The dragons are those who'd consider such places civilized.

 

[PMZ]

I've been to countries where people have no option but die in the streets. They don't go quietly into that good night. They will, like all of us, do whatever it takes to survive. I would not choose to live in a country like that.

Dragons at the gate.

well at least it is reassuring to know according to Kathleen Sebelius

that men often need maternity care

--LOL

My family needed maternity care.

 

[PMZ]

You are in dire need of an education...it is embarrassing watching you twist as you do.

Do you really consider your GED an education? I guess compared to most Conservatives, maybe so. But to be a conservative no education is required. Just watch, listen and repeat.

Says the man who can't hold a job so he wants communism so the government will force conservatives to pay for him...

Other way around numbnuts. I've worked since 12. I'm retired and spending my time preventing conservatives from tearing down all that we built. The difficulty is that conservatives are zombies. Unthinking destroyers of progress, set on making all of us the same.

Won't happen on my watch.

 

[emilynghiem]

As PMZ has just provided more evidence for, the root of the problem is that some people (authoritarians of both parties) believe that liberty includes the right of an authority to take liberty away simply because the majority demands it. IOW they don't believe in liberty at all, but rather only believe in liberty for their group. When their group is in the majority they rule as tyrants, and when not they scream tyranny. Bring this up and they claim you are arguing for lawlessness. Explain that liberty does not include the liberty to harm others, and they run away screaming and calling you names (exhibiting cognitive dissonance).

As your example provides above these folks are somewhat incapable of making the leap of understanding that in order that they should be free, they need to let others be free. They can't get there, IMO, because of cognitive dissonance, and/or a fear of loosing their power (authority) over others. Fear of the unknown. Fear is the mind killer. (Frank Herbert.)

Conservatives love to use the word "liberty" as a stand in for irresponsibility. It sounds so noble.

But animals live with an abundance of liberty and zero responsibility other than survival. Can't we just live like animals?

Of course we can and have but left it behind when we found things that work much better.

Now conservatives want to return to those thrilling days of yesteryear and go back to the caves. Or at least they want others to.

For themselves though they can't get along any more without their fashionable and comfortable stuff. Lavish stuff. Abundant stuff.

So they'll keep their mcmansions and the 99% can have the caves.

See [MENTION=22295]emilynghiem[/MENTION], as I said, bring up liberty and they claim you are arguing for lawlessness.

Hi PMZ and RKMBrown:
Wow! PMZ this sounds like when conservatives argue that the "prochoice" advocates want freedom with no responsibility!

Do you agree with that PMZ? That prochoice means not wanting responsibility?
Not caring if women get maimed abused or killed by botched abortionists?
So as long as WE GET WHAT WE WANT from the law, too bad if other people get hurt?

No, I don't think so. I am guessing if you are prochoice like me, that's not the same as wanting to push pro-abortion irreponsibly "just because we don't want govt to criminalize abortion". That's not the same, and I hope you are with me on this.

 

[emilynghiem]

Do you really consider your GED an education? I guess compared to most Conservatives, maybe so. But to be a conservative no education is required. Just watch, listen and repeat.

Says the man who can't hold a job so he wants communism so the government will force conservatives to pay for him...

Other way around numbnuts. I've worked since 12. I'm retired and spending my time preventing conservatives from tearing down all that we built. The difficulty is that conservatives are zombies. Unthinking destroyers of progress, set on making all of us the same.

Won't happen on my watch.

Hi PMZ I relate to you on this note.

I've been working two jobs since 2008, using my salary to pay on credit card debts I lent to nonprofits almost destroyed by Democrat corruption and abuses in two Black districts in Houston.

You can blame either the Democrats directly or the Republicans indirectly for why we're not getting help to solve these problems, and nonprofit volunteers are having to do all the work.

The Democrats pimp the community and churches for their votes and money to run for office, but won't go against developers gutting these communities at taxpayers expense. So they blame the poor for welfare when the tax money is actually going to the wealthy to take over the land.

So that is one lie.

The other is that it is the Democrat politicians who are selling out the poor to developers to run, get, and keep their offices.

So blaming this on Republicans is a lie.

Both sides only point out what is convenient for their arguments.

First it is the Democrats pimping their own people especially poor Blacks.
Secondly the Republicans who "claim" to support charter schools, vouchers, and independent business solutions taking back control from govt WON'T step in and help invest in solutions that would end this nightmare.

They only complain and blame Democrats for political points, but won't fix it.
Instead they pimp THAT problem to run for office also.

So it is like the days of slavery all over again.

The Blacks enslaved other Blacks first.
Then sold them to the Whites a second time.

Here, the Democrats pimp their own poor supporters for votes and money to campaign.
And then the Republicans pimp that problem to get their money and candidates in office.

In the meantime the volunteers working two jobs each like slaves to fix the problems caused by this govt and political abuse get no help because all the money is going into political campaigns blaming the other party.

PMZ I hope you see both sides and not just one.

We are being pimped twice, while the two pimps argue and blame the other.

House slaves vs. Field slaves = poor vs rich = pitting Democrats against Republicans

In the meantime we are all slaves to political hijacking of government as long as
we stay divided wasting resources "blaming the other party"

40% tax rate going to govt while we only keep 60%
means 2/5 slave and 3/5 free. so we are slaves to govt,
while the politics keeps us divided as house slave vs field slave
so we never unite and overthrow the corruption on both sides!

 

[PMZ]

Conservatives love to use the word "liberty" as a stand in for irresponsibility. It sounds so noble.

But animals live with an abundance of liberty and zero responsibility other than survival. Can't we just live like animals?

Of course we can and have but left it behind when we found things that work much better.

Now conservatives want to return to those thrilling days of yesteryear and go back to the caves. Or at least they want others to.

For themselves though they can't get along any more without their fashionable and comfortable stuff. Lavish stuff. Abundant stuff.

So they'll keep their mcmansions and the 99% can have the caves.

See [MENTION=22295]emilynghiem[/MENTION], as I said, bring up liberty and they claim you are arguing for lawlessness.

Hi PMZ and RKMBrown:
Wow! PMZ this sounds like when conservatives argue that the "prochoice" advocates want freedom with no responsibility!

Do you agree with that PMZ? That prochoice means not wanting responsibility?
Not caring if women get maimed abused or killed by botched abortionists?
So as long as WE GET WHAT WE WANT from the law, too bad if other people get hurt?

No, I don't think so. I am guessing if you are prochoice like me, that's not the same as wanting to push pro-abortion irreponsibly "just because we don't want govt to criminalize abortion". That's not the same, and I hope you are with me on this.

I think that if men, including priests, as minor stakeholders in this issue, got out of the way, women would unanimously decide pro choice.

I'd support their decision based on practical terms.