The Land of the Free - US or EU?

[Peterf]

Europe will be a Muslim colony in about 75 years. With a shockingly low birthrate and economic stagnation the only population growth comes from Muslims, who are intent on Europe's destruction.
How free is Europe? Try publishing cartoons critical of Islam and find out.

Muslims will be the majority in France by......ready for this.......2020. Good luck to that culture!!


Progressivism is gay.....and the pushback, when it comes, ( oh.....and its coming ) is going to be fucking ugly as hell.

There are 66 million people in France. It is predicted that by 2030 there will be 70 million people in France, including 7 million who are originally from countries considered Muslim. Of those 7 million, only about 30% are or will be practicing Muslims. The other 70% will be, as they are now, people who are not practicing Muslims. You people do not realize that at present, 1/4 of the Earth's population is Muslim. Just like people who are born Christians, people born in Islamic countries are people who range from fundamentalists and extremists to those who don't even practice a religion. You are ignorant and unlearned about Islam. You do not know the realities. Your perspective is warped by Islamaphobia. You have Islamaphobia: see a professional psychiatric care giver.

Do me a favour and stop using the silly word 'islamophobia'.

I have lived in two Islamic countries. I have known a lot of Muslims and know a lot about the 'realities'. I regard Islam as a serious and actual threat to European civilisation and consider my opinion to be at least as valid as yours. So don't try your infantile 'psychiatric care' rubbish on me.

 

[Esmeralda]

Muslims will be the majority in France by......ready for this.......2020. Good luck to that culture!!


Progressivism is gay.....and the pushback, when it comes, ( oh.....and its coming ) is going to be fucking ugly as hell.

There are 66 million people in France. It is predicted that by 2030 there will be 70 million people in France, including 7 million who are originally from countries considered Muslim. Of those 7 million, only about 30% are or will be practicing Muslims. The other 70% will be, as they are now, people who are not practicing Muslims. You people do not realize that at present, 1/4 of the Earth's population is Muslim. Just like people who are born Christians, people born in Islamic countries are people who range from fundamentalists and extremists to those who don't even practice a religion. You are ignorant and unlearned about Islam. You do not know the realities. Your perspective is warped by Islamaphobia. You have Islamaphobia: see a professional psychiatric care giver.

Do me a favour and stop using the silly word 'islamophobia'.

I have lived in two Islamic countries. I have known a lot of Muslims and know a lot about the 'realities'. I regard Islam as a serious and actual threat to European civilisation and consider my opinion to be at least as valid as yours. So don't try your infantile 'psychiatric care' rubbish on me.

You are actually ordering me to stop using a word and you say Muslims are a threat? Too funny.

I have lived in three Muslim countries. I have also lived in Europe. Islam is not a serious and actual threat to Europe or any other civilization. People who think it is have mental issues. Xenophobia, for one. Paranoia for another. As well, I did not direct the term Islamaphobia toward you. If you feel it applies to you, that's your issue, not mine.

Why anyone would think people who originate from Muslim dominated countries but do not practice their religion would be a threat is mystifying. Why anyone would think that 7% of the overall population of a country indicates that 7% to be a 'serious threat' to that country is also mystifying. What your point of view reflects is a total lack of reason and logic as to why you are so afraid of Muslims. Phobia. Needing psychiatric treatment.

 

[asterism]

Let me start by saying that I think both the US and the 27 countries of the EU are amongst the freest regions on earth, and anyone born in either has little to complain about.

There is no tyranny on either continent, and has not been for since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Bit after seeing a couple of comments last week about how Europe is not free, I thought it might make for an interesting discussion, because in my opinion at least the dozen wealthiest countries in Western Europe are freer than the US.

Why Europe is free than the US

1. Political choice. Americans hve 2 real choices at the balot box - I have 10. Options from Christian Democrat on the right to Left Alliance on the left mean most voters should feel that they have a party that represents them. That's a huge freedom.

2. Free education & healthcare. Every child in western Europe has the chance to become whatever they want. Yes, we pay higher taxes than Americans do, but the fact that even a child from a poor home can go to a great school and university is something I consider a genuine liberation. Many of Finland's greatest achievers grew up in homes of real poverty.

3. Economic mobility. The UK aside, economic mobility is greater in Western Europe than in the US. This is largely because of the free education and healthcare. People can work their way up from nothing to whatever they can dream of more easily than poor Americans can.

4. Safety. Western European countries are generally much safer than the US. We have plenty of crime here, and rates of assault and robbery may even be higher in some European countries than in the US, but with murder rates often 75% lower than the US, staying alive is perhaps the ultimate freedom.

On the other side, I do admit that freedom of speech is fractionally greater in the US. Laws against Holocaust Denial and Hate Speech are tighter here - although I don't have a problem with that myself.

You're also applying the same "poor" standard in the US to the "poor" standard in Europe and they are far from parallel. Europe has many truly poor people, those who have no means to access food and shelter.

I think you would have to go to Albania, Romania, Bulgaria and now maybe Greece to find the truly poor' that you describe. There are none in Western and Northern Europe.

Plenty of very truly poor people literally starving in Spain, France and Italy too. The difference is that in the US anyone making less than $10 an hour is considered poor and that's not particularly true for rural areas. $20,000 per year is a good life for a farmer living a simple life on his own land. It's not affluent by any means but it's certainly not poor.

Also, a great deal of our "poor" here live like middle class in Europe. Good cars, lots of electronic toys, excellent healthcare, a wide variety of food options, and plenty of extra money to smoke and drink as much as they want.

The poor here are outright wealthy compared to the Roma scattered all around Europe.

 

[asterism]

Fiscal conservatism = anti-science and infrastructure

Not true at all.

Oh noo's you can't be exploring that or building that as I am a penny pinching asshole.

You're quite generous with money that isn't yours. The problem isn't the idea that infrastructure is needed to be built and maintained, it's that the money goes for so much other stuff and the process is inefficient.

 

[Esmeralda]

You're also applying the same "poor" standard in the US to the "poor" standard in Europe and they are far from parallel. Europe has many truly poor people, those who have no means to access food and shelter.

I think you would have to go to Albania, Romania, Bulgaria and now maybe Greece to find the truly poor' that you describe. There are none in Western and Northern Europe.

Plenty of very truly poor people literally starving in Spain, France and Italy too. The difference is that in the US anyone making less than $10 an hour is considered poor and that's not particularly true for rural areas. $20,000 per year is a good life for a farmer living a simple life on his own land. It's not affluent by any means but it's certainly not poor.

Also, a great deal of our "poor" here live like middle class in Europe. Good cars, lots of electronic toys, excellent healthcare, a wide variety of food options, and plenty of extra money to smoke and drink as much as they want.

The poor here are outright wealthy compared to the Roma scattered all around Europe.

Have you even been to these countries, lived in them? Who are all these starving people in France, Spain and Italy? Provide evidence for such a claim. Give us a valid piece of evidence to support such a claim.

Roma? Roma people is what you are talking about? People who live separate lives outside of the general population, by choice? People who do not have documentation/ID? People who do not work inside the system, at all? People who do no send their children to school? Etc. They are an infinitesimal percentage of any European country's population, and they live outside the system by choice

 

[bitterlyclingin]

Vladimir Putin recently said he envied Obama because Obama could spy on American citizens openly and get away witth it.

 

[Freemason9]

I agree. From what I know of the EU, having lived there for 4 years and additionally, now spending 2-3 months there every year, I think not only are Europeans freer but they are a good deal happier.

My emphasis.
I think you are right, I saw a bit on Fox news awhile back about the "happiness scale".
IMO - Americans in general are lost. We have become mindless-blind consumerist-zombies, always looking to get the next thing we want. Where else can you see people who can barely afford their rent, have no money in their savings and constantly behind on bills - walk around with the latest iPhone...40" TV in their living room and can't wait to bang out their credit card to get the XBox One? All the while fighting with each other, ignoring our children because we are under so much stress?

Things will get much, much worse in America as the right wing intensifies its hold on media, the government, and the economic system.

 

[Freemason9]

Vladimir Putin recently said he envied Obama because Obama could spy on American citizens openly and get away witth it.

Believe it or not, Putin cannot be trusted.

 

[asterism]

I think you would have to go to Albania, Romania, Bulgaria and now maybe Greece to find the truly poor' that you describe. There are none in Western and Northern Europe.

Plenty of very truly poor people literally starving in Spain, France and Italy too. The difference is that in the US anyone making less than $10 an hour is considered poor and that's not particularly true for rural areas. $20,000 per year is a good life for a farmer living a simple life on his own land. It's not affluent by any means but it's certainly not poor.

Also, a great deal of our "poor" here live like middle class in Europe. Good cars, lots of electronic toys, excellent healthcare, a wide variety of food options, and plenty of extra money to smoke and drink as much as they want.

The poor here are outright wealthy compared to the Roma scattered all around Europe.

Have you even been to these countries, lived in them? Who are all these starving people in France, Spain and Italy? Provide evidence for such a claim. Give us a valid piece of evidence to support such a claim.

I've seen these with my own eyes:

Inside Italian Gypsy camps | World news | Observer.co.uk

The Rust Belt of France: Marseille ? The Bygone Bureau

Marseille's 'ghetto lycée' won't give up despite the problems its pupils face | World news | Guardian Weekly

Spanish filmmaker talks about poor people in Barcelona - Times Of India

Two out of ten are living in poverty | Radio One Mallorca

Roma? Roma people is what you are talking about? People who live separate lives outside of the general population, by choice? People who do not have documentation/ID? People who do not work inside the system, at all? People who do no send their children to school? Etc. They are an infinitesimal percentage of any European country's population, and they live outside the system by choice

So do most of the homeless people in the US, and I don't speak of Roma exclusively when I refer to the very poor people in Europe.

 

[JoeNormal]

Let me start by saying that I think both the US and the 27 countries of the EU are amongst the freest regions on earth, and anyone born in either has little to complain about.

There is no tyranny on either continent, and has not been for since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Bit after seeing a couple of comments last week about how Europe is not free, I thought it might make for an interesting discussion, because in my opinion at least the dozen wealthiest countries in Western Europe are freer than the US.

Why Europe is free than the US

1. Political choice. Americans hve 2 real choices at the balot box - I have 10. Options from Christian Democrat on the right to Left Alliance on the left mean most voters should feel that they have a party that represents them. That's a huge freedom.

2. Free education & healthcare. Every child in western Europe has the chance to become whatever they want. Yes, we pay higher taxes than Americans do, but the fact that even a child from a poor home can go to a great school and university is something I consider a genuine liberation. Many of Finland's greatest achievers grew up in homes of real poverty.

3. Economic mobility. The UK aside, economic mobility is greater in Western Europe than in the US. This is largely because of the free education and healthcare. People can work their way up from nothing to whatever they can dream of more easily than poor Americans can.

4. Safety. Western European countries are generally much safer than the US. We have plenty of crime here, and rates of assault and robbery may even be higher in some European countries than in the US, but with murder rates often 75% lower than the US, staying alive is perhaps the ultimate freedom.

On the other side, I do admit that freedom of speech is fractionally greater in the US. Laws against Holocaust Denial and Hate Speech are tighter here - although I don't have a problem with that myself.

The US leads the world in self-made millionaires and billionaires. You're also applying the same "poor" standard in the US to the "poor" standard in Europe and they are far from parallel. Europe has many truly poor people, those who have no means to access food and shelter.

The "poor" in the US generally own their own homes and/or have multiple cars, are overweight (meaning they aren't starving) and have excellent healthcare.

The US also leads the world in lottery winners and in many cases, it's the same thing.

 

[JoeNormal]

Let me start by saying that I think both the US and the 27 countries of the EU are amongst the freest regions on earth, and anyone born in either has little to complain about.

There is no tyranny on either continent, and has not been for since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Bit after seeing a couple of comments last week about how Europe is not free, I thought it might make for an interesting discussion, because in my opinion at least the dozen wealthiest countries in Western Europe are freer than the US.

Why Europe is free than the US

1. Political choice. Americans hve 2 real choices at the balot box - I have 10. Options from Christian Democrat on the right to Left Alliance on the left mean most voters should feel that they have a party that represents them. That's a huge freedom.

2. Free education & healthcare. Every child in western Europe has the chance to become whatever they want. Yes, we pay higher taxes than Americans do, but the fact that even a child from a poor home can go to a great school and university is something I consider a genuine liberation. Many of Finland's greatest achievers grew up in homes of real poverty.

3. Economic mobility. The UK aside, economic mobility is greater in Western Europe than in the US. This is largely because of the free education and healthcare. People can work their way up from nothing to whatever they can dream of more easily than poor Americans can.

4. Safety. Western European countries are generally much safer than the US. We have plenty of crime here, and rates of assault and robbery may even be higher in some European countries than in the US, but with murder rates often 75% lower than the US, staying alive is perhaps the ultimate freedom.

On the other side, I do admit that freedom of speech is fractionally greater in the US. Laws against Holocaust Denial and Hate Speech are tighter here - although I don't have a problem with that myself.

Europe will be a Muslim colony in about 75 years. With a shockingly low birthrate and economic stagnation the only population growth comes from Muslims, who are intent on Europe's destruction.
How free is Europe? Try publishing cartoons critical of Islam and find out.

OMG, how do they live with that level of repression? I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't publish cartoons critical of Islam.

 

[The Rabbi]

Let me start by saying that I think both the US and the 27 countries of the EU are amongst the freest regions on earth, and anyone born in either has little to complain about.

There is no tyranny on either continent, and has not been for since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Bit after seeing a couple of comments last week about how Europe is not free, I thought it might make for an interesting discussion, because in my opinion at least the dozen wealthiest countries in Western Europe are freer than the US.

Why Europe is free than the US

1. Political choice. Americans hve 2 real choices at the balot box - I have 10. Options from Christian Democrat on the right to Left Alliance on the left mean most voters should feel that they have a party that represents them. That's a huge freedom.

2. Free education & healthcare. Every child in western Europe has the chance to become whatever they want. Yes, we pay higher taxes than Americans do, but the fact that even a child from a poor home can go to a great school and university is something I consider a genuine liberation. Many of Finland's greatest achievers grew up in homes of real poverty.

3. Economic mobility. The UK aside, economic mobility is greater in Western Europe than in the US. This is largely because of the free education and healthcare. People can work their way up from nothing to whatever they can dream of more easily than poor Americans can.

4. Safety. Western European countries are generally much safer than the US. We have plenty of crime here, and rates of assault and robbery may even be higher in some European countries than in the US, but with murder rates often 75% lower than the US, staying alive is perhaps the ultimate freedom.

On the other side, I do admit that freedom of speech is fractionally greater in the US. Laws against Holocaust Denial and Hate Speech are tighter here - although I don't have a problem with that myself.

Europe will be a Muslim colony in about 75 years. With a shockingly low birthrate and economic stagnation the only population growth comes from Muslims, who are intent on Europe's destruction.
How free is Europe? Try publishing cartoons critical of Islam and find out.

OMG, how do they live with that level of repression? I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't publish cartoons critical of Islam.

You're such a jerk. Try telling that to this guy.
Theo van Gogh (film director) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JoeNormal]

Europe will be a Muslim colony in about 75 years. With a shockingly low birthrate and economic stagnation the only population growth comes from Muslims, who are intent on Europe's destruction.
How free is Europe? Try publishing cartoons critical of Islam and find out.

OMG, how do they live with that level of repression? I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't publish cartoons critical of Islam.

You're such a jerk. Try telling that to this guy.
Theo van Gogh (film director) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And you think that a film maker couldn't have been assassinated in the US by a Muslim radical for making the same film? Just keep on pimpin' your American jingoism.

 

[Esmeralda]

Plenty of very truly poor people literally starving in Spain, France and Italy too. The difference is that in the US anyone making less than $10 an hour is considered poor and that's not particularly true for rural areas. $20,000 per year is a good life for a farmer living a simple life on his own land. It's not affluent by any means but it's certainly not poor.

Also, a great deal of our "poor" here live like middle class in Europe. Good cars, lots of electronic toys, excellent healthcare, a wide variety of food options, and plenty of extra money to smoke and drink as much as they want.

The poor here are outright wealthy compared to the Roma scattered all around Europe.

Have you even been to these countries, lived in them? Who are all these starving people in France, Spain and Italy? Provide evidence for such a claim. Give us a valid piece of evidence to support such a claim.

I've seen these with my own eyes:

Inside Italian Gypsy camps | World news | Observer.co.uk

The Rust Belt of France: Marseille ? The Bygone Bureau

Marseille's 'ghetto lycée' won't give up despite the problems its pupils face | World news | Guardian Weekly

Spanish filmmaker talks about poor people in Barcelona - Times Of India

Two out of ten are living in poverty | Radio One Mallorca

Roma? Roma people is what you are talking about? People who live separate lives outside of the general population, by choice? People who do not have documentation/ID? People who do not work inside the system, at all? People who do no send their children to school? Etc. They are an infinitesimal percentage of any European country's population, and they live outside the system by choice

So do most of the homeless people in the US, and I don't speak of Roma exclusively when I refer to the very poor people in Europe.

First, you've only read about Europe. Can you put yourself in the position of an American being told what America is like by a European who has only read about it? That is what you are doing. Acting like a know-it-all about places you've never been, never lived in and have only read about or seen on TV.

Second, the Romas are a group of people who cannot be included in statistics that reflect the basic life and economy of any country. Gypsies/Romas have been outside the mainstream for centuries. Do not try to include them in a reasonable discussion about the economy and lifestyle of most of Europe.

Third, poverty statistics are a very iffy thing as different measurments are made by different countries as to what poverty actually is. The point that was made earlier is that there are many people in the EU who are starving and homeless, far more percentagewise than in the US. This is simply not true. There are poor people everywhere in the world, but the EU is doing better than the US in dealing with it. Those in the EU who are truly poor, who are hungry and possibly homeless, are essentially people who have entered illegally and are unable to be documented workers and residents, who don't qualify for any of the social services. There are some homeless people who are mentally ill and live on the streets as in the US. You have to be there to understand what the situation is. Reading articles online, seeing TV documentary, reading a magazine or newspaper article is not the same as living it.

Inequality watch

 

[The Rabbi]

OMG, how do they live with that level of repression? I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't publish cartoons critical of Islam.

You're such a jerk. Try telling that to this guy.
Theo van Gogh (film director) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And you think that a film maker couldn't have been assassinated in the US by a Muslim radical for making the same film? Just keep on pimpin' your American jingoism.

Please post all the filmmakers in the U.S. assassinated by Muslim radicals. I'll wait.
What a simp.

 

[JoeNormal]

You're such a jerk. Try telling that to this guy.
Theo van Gogh (film director) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And you think that a film maker couldn't have been assassinated in the US by a Muslim radical for making the same film? Just keep on pimpin' your American jingoism.

Please post all the filmmakers in the U.S. assassinated by Muslim radicals. I'll wait.
What a simp.

Please post a list of all the films produced in the US that are critical of Islam. I'll wait.

 

[asterism]

Have you even been to these countries, lived in them? Who are all these starving people in France, Spain and Italy? Provide evidence for such a claim. Give us a valid piece of evidence to support such a claim.

I've seen these with my own eyes:

Inside Italian Gypsy camps | World news | Observer.co.uk

The Rust Belt of France: Marseille ? The Bygone Bureau

Marseille's 'ghetto lycée' won't give up despite the problems its pupils face | World news | Guardian Weekly

Spanish filmmaker talks about poor people in Barcelona - Times Of India

Two out of ten are living in poverty | Radio One Mallorca

Roma? Roma people is what you are talking about? People who live separate lives outside of the general population, by choice? People who do not have documentation/ID? People who do not work inside the system, at all? People who do no send their children to school? Etc. They are an infinitesimal percentage of any European country's population, and they live outside the system by choice

So do most of the homeless people in the US, and I don't speak of Roma exclusively when I refer to the very poor people in Europe.

First, you've only read about Europe. Can you put yourself in the position of an American being told what America is like by a European who has only read about it? That is what you are doing. Acting like a know-it-all about places you've never been, never lived in and have only read about or seen on TV.

It appears reading comprehension isn't one of your strengths. Here's a hint: when I say that I've seen things with my own eyes it means I was actually present in physical form to do so.

Second, the Romas are a group of people who cannot be included in statistics that reflect the basic life and economy of any country. Gypsies/Romas have been outside the mainstream for centuries. Do not try to include them in a reasonable discussion about the economy and lifestyle of most of Europe.

So Europe has no poor except for all those poor Roma? Okay.....

Third, poverty statistics are a very iffy thing as different measurments are made by different countries as to what poverty actually is. The point that was made earlier is that there are many people in the EU who are starving and homeless, far more percentagewise than in the US. This is simply not true. There are poor people everywhere in the world, but the EU is doing better than the US in dealing with it. Those in the EU who are truly poor, who are hungry and possibly homeless, are essentially people who have entered illegally and are unable to be documented workers and residents, who don't qualify for any of the social services. There are some homeless people who are mentally ill and live on the streets as in the US. You have to be there to understand what the situation is. Reading articles online, seeing TV documentary, reading a magazine or newspaper article is not the same as living it.

Inequality watch

Not really accurate for all those native Spaniards begging in the streets of Barcelona and Palma and certainly doesn't apply to the abject poverty just outside the opulence of Sevilla.

This link accurately depicts a situation I saw 20 years ago.

BBC News - Spain: Simmering anger in Seville


Get it? I actually saw this stuff - I was there.

 

[American4Americ]

Let me start by saying that I think both the US and the 27 countries of the EU are amongst the freest regions on earth, and anyone born in either has little to complain about.

There is no tyranny on either continent, and has not been for since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Bit after seeing a couple of comments last week about how Europe is not free, I thought it might make for an interesting discussion, because in my opinion at least the dozen wealthiest countries in Western Europe are freer than the US.

Why Europe is free than the US

1. Political choice. Americans hve 2 real choices at the balot box - I have 10. Options from Christian Democrat on the right to Left Alliance on the left mean most voters should feel that they have a party that represents them. That's a huge freedom.

2. Free education & healthcare. Every child in western Europe has the chance to become whatever they want. Yes, we pay higher taxes than Americans do, but the fact that even a child from a poor home can go to a great school and university is something I consider a genuine liberation. Many of Finland's greatest achievers grew up in homes of real poverty.

3. Economic mobility. The UK aside, economic mobility is greater in Western Europe than in the US. This is largely because of the free education and healthcare. People can work their way up from nothing to whatever they can dream of more easily than poor Americans can.

4. Safety. Western European countries are generally much safer than the US. We have plenty of crime here, and rates of assault and robbery may even be higher in some European countries than in the US, but with murder rates often 75% lower than the US, staying alive is perhaps the ultimate freedom.

On the other side, I do admit that freedom of speech is fractionally greater in the US. Laws against Holocaust Denial and Hate Speech are tighter here - although I don't have a problem with that myself.

U.S.A isn't communist, so the U.S.A.

 

[asterism]

And you think that a film maker couldn't have been assassinated in the US by a Muslim radical for making the same film? Just keep on pimpin' your American jingoism.

Please post all the filmmakers in the U.S. assassinated by Muslim radicals. I'll wait.
What a simp.

Please post a list of all the films produced in the US that are critical of Islam. I'll wait.

Partial list:

Islam: What the West Needs to Know - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Losing Our Sons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Terrorists Among Us: Jihad in America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Third Jihad: Radical Islam's Vision For America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The Rabbi]

And you think that a film maker couldn't have been assassinated in the US by a Muslim radical for making the same film? Just keep on pimpin' your American jingoism.

Please post all the filmmakers in the U.S. assassinated by Muslim radicals. I'll wait.
What a simp.

Please post a list of all the films produced in the US that are critical of Islam. I'll wait.

You're so easily defeated.
Categoryocumentary films critical of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia