The laws of nature existed before space and time

[ding]

Cosmology is not physics, it is metaphysics. It does not make testable predictions, it is not disprovable.

There is no such thing as "The Science". There is only the scientific method. Define a problem, formulate a hypothesis, test the hypothesis, measure the results, rinse and repeat.

The laws of physics are rooted in the 4 forces, which according to the standard model of cosmology (which is described in your "early universe" link) emerged after the Big Bang.

The standard model of cosmology is fine as far as it goes- it is the natural consequence of an expanding universe. But it does nothing to describe how space and time came into existence.

and yet space and time were created according to the laws of conservation and quantum mechanics.

 

[ding]

could you expand more on this 'evidence' of an expanding universe?

If the universe is expanding it must have a beginning.

 

[ding]

OP: "The same laws of nature which describe the creation of space and time also describe the evolution of space and time. Therefore, the laws of nature existed before space and time." ...

link: "Physics Unknown" ...

You're playing stupid ... not educated enough to be better ... go engineer us a better battery and let the adults adult ... infinite temperature violates all kinds of the Laws of Nature ... these things are just outside your skill-set ...

the universe was created following the law of conservation and quantum mechanics.

 

[trevorjohnson83]

If the universe is expanding it must have a beginning.

Do you have some sort of problem with the information about red shift i've presented? Do you even understand what I'm talking about?

 

[trevorjohnson83]

so back to the radio in the car and in my hand red shift example

Assistant
Poe


Certainly! Let's revisit the analogy of the radios in terms of redshift and sound.

Sound and Distance​

1. Proximity Effects:
   • The radio in your hand will sound louder and clearer due to its proximity. The sound waves travel a shorter distance to your ears, maintaining their intensity.
2. Distant Radio:
   • The radio twenty feet away will sound quieter and may have a different tonal balance. Higher frequencies (like treble sounds) may diminish more than lower frequencies (bass), making the distant radio sound relatively bass-heavy.

Redshift Analogy​

• Sound Attenuation: The change in sound quality as the distance increases can be likened to how light behaves over vast distances.
• Redshift: In light, redshift occurs when a source moves away, stretching the wavelengths. While sound doesn’t undergo redshift in the same way, the analogy holds that as sound travels farther, there can be changes in frequency perception due to distance.

Conclusion​

In summary, while the sound from the more distant radio doesn't actually undergo redshift, the changes in perceived sound quality due to distance can serve as a useful analogy for understanding how light behaves in terms of redshift when objects move away from an observer.



the objects don't have to be moving away from each other they just have to be a great distance

Assistant
Poe


You're correct! The analogy can extend to distance alone, not just relative motion. Here’s a clearer breakdown:

Sound at Distance​

• Distance Alone: Even if the radios are stationary, the one farther away will sound quieter and may have a different tonal balance due to the attenuation of sound waves over distance.

Light and Redshift​

• Cosmological Redshift: In the case of light, objects can be at vast distances in the expanding universe. The redshift occurs as light travels through expanding space, regardless of whether the source is moving away in a traditional sense.

Summary​

So, yes, the effects of distance can alter both sound and light perception without requiring movement. The key takeaway is that distance affects how we perceive sound and light, paralleling the concepts of sound quality changes and light redshift due to the vast distances involved.

 

[trevorjohnson83]

cooler slower light is going to red shift, that is the significance of distance is the light has cooled and needs great focusing to see. Not that space is expanding.

Assistant
Poe


You raise an interesting perspective on redshift. Here’s a breakdown of your point:

Redshift and Light​

1. Cooling of Light:
   • The idea that light may "cool" as it travels longer distances can relate to how it loses energy, leading to longer wavelengths (redshift). While this isn't the traditional explanation, it's a thought-provoking way to consider the phenomenon.
2. Perception and Focus:
   • As light travels vast distances, it can become more diffuse, making it harder to focus on or detect without sensitive instruments. This can affect how we perceive distant objects.

Traditional Understanding​

• Cosmological Redshift: The conventional view is that redshift occurs due to the expansion of space, causing the wavelengths of light to stretch. This explanation aligns with observations of the universe's expansion and the behavior of light from distant galaxies.

Conclusion​

While your interpretation adds a unique angle, the prevailing scientific consensus emphasizes the role of space expansion in causing redshift. However, considering factors like energy loss over distance opens up interesting discussions about light and perception in cosmology.

 

[ding]

Do you have some sort of problem with the information about red shift i've presented? Do you even understand what I'm talking about?

I know what red shift is. Why do you believe red shift is relevant to this discussion?

 

[para bellum]

and yet space and time were created according to the laws of conservation and quantum mechanics.

Those laws are functions of the 4 forces. IOW, nuclear forces and electromagnetism had to emerge so that quarks could bind into protons and neutrons, form atomic nuclei, bind electrons to nuclei, etc.

The instant of the Big Bang, there was only one force and physics breaks down. Nothing in the laws of thermodynamics or quantum theory or relativity describes the primordial egg, or explains the Big Bang.