The Most Open Administration In History

[iamwhatiseem]

1) It is cumulative percentages - so the numbers represent not each year - but the cumulative % of the combined years.
2) What this document shows is HHS estimates for the number of companies that would relinquish the grandfather status BEFORE 2014.
NOW - The Obama administration delayed the company mandates - SOOO - YES THIS REPRESENTS HHS KNEW AND WAS PLANNING ON PEOPLE LOSING THEIR COMPANY PLANS. AND THEREFORE DELAYED EMPLOYER MANDATE
Keep in mind the numbers do not represent ALL PLANS...just plans that did not meet the standards.
The Wall Street Journal and others believe the 66% is a very low number and that it is more likely 85% - 90%.

 

[TemplarKormac]

That article has NOTHING to do with employer plans.

Thanks for playing.

Seriously?

So why is this happening right now?

Some -- or maybe even most -- of the plans offered on the individual insurance market right now don't meet certain requirements in the health-care law. They may not offer preventive care without co-payment, for example, or leave out coverage of maternity care, one of the health-care law's 10 essential benefits.

Some of these plans have stuck around for a little bit. The health law allowed plans that existed back in March 2010, when it became a law, to keep selling coverage. These are known as "grandfathered plans:" They don't meet the health law's requirements, but as long as they don't change much, insurers can keep offering them.

Insurance companies typically do like to change their insurance plans, making changes to cost-sharing or the benefits they offer. That means that grandfathered plans have disappeared. We don't have great data about how quickly this is happening in the individual market, but we do see it in this Kaiser Family Foundation survey of the employer market.

These cancellations are, essentially, a lot of grandfathered plans exiting the insurance marketplace. From an insurance company's vantage point, grandfathered plans are a bit of a dead end: They can't enroll new subscribers and are really constrained in their ability to tweak the benefit package or cost-sharing structure. There's not a whole lot of business sense, for a managed care company, in maintaining a health plan that doesn't meet the health law's new requirements.

Did you read the article or make an assumption?

Can't you read your own graphic, dipshit?

Can you read at all?

Let's repeat, shall we? Please, stop playing with the highlighter.

"We don't have great data about how quickly this is happening in the individual market, but we do see it in this Kaiser Family Foundation survey of the employer market."

Contrary to what you think, it has plenty to do with employer plans. Hence the mention of "employer market" in the sentence.

 

[LoneLaugher]

It is interesting, isn't it?

The same party and administration that these nutters claim are ruthless politicians are also such terrible politicians that they would propose and pass a law that would force millions and millions of working Americans to lose their health care coverage.

It really rings true.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Irony!

/argument

You can't show 55 percent of companies cancelling plans, can you?

Didn't think so.

I can, when the employer mandate takes effect in 2015, dumbass. The cancellations will occur on the effective date. Had Obama not delayed the employer mandate, those 55 percent of cancellations would have occurred THIS YEAR.

Can you show me where 55% of companies won't cancel those plans in 2015? Didn't think so.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

G,

What do you think of that arrogant fuck calling you a child? Any thoughts?

I've noticed that the members on here who have the dark fantasy avatars of black knights and such are the real children on this board.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

1) It is cumulative percentages - so the numbers represent not each year - but the cumulative % of the combined years.
2) What this document shows is HHS estimates for the number of companies that would relinquish the grandfather status BEFORE 2014.
NOW - The Obama administration delayed the company mandates - SOOO - YES THIS REPRESENTS HHS KNEW AND WAS PLANNING ON PEOPLE LOSING THEIR COMPANY PLANS. AND THEREFORE DELAYED EMPLOYER MANDATE
Keep in mind the numbers do not represent ALL PLANS...just plans that did not meet the standards.
The Wall Street Journal and others believe the 66% is a very low number and that it is more likely 85% - 90%.

I don't usually...well I think I have only one or two times...quote myself.
But here it is again so it doesn't get lost. [MENTION=34052]g5000[/MENTION] - you are a good poster who is usually in the right - not this time.

 

[LoneLaugher]

/argument

You can't show 55 percent of companies cancelling plans, can you?

Didn't think so.

I can, when the employer mandate takes effect in 2015, dumbass. The cancellations will occur on the effective date. Had Obama not delayed the employer mandate, those 55 percent of cancellations would have occurred THIS YEAR.

Can you show me where 55% of companies won't cancel those plans in 2015? Didn't think so.

TK believes that tens of millions of working Americans....who are currently insured with employer sponsored plans....will be uncovered in 2015. It will be a nutter landslide!

TK doesn't know that the mandate is meant to force employers with 50 or more employees to provide insurance. And that only about 1-2% of said companies don't already offer it.

TK has absolutely zero understanding of the topic he is discussing.

It is full retard.

 

[TemplarKormac]

G,

What do you think of that arrogant fuck calling you a child? Any thoughts?

I've noticed that the members on here who have the dark fantasy avatars of black knights and such are the real children on this board.

I've noticed that people like you who do nothing but troll this board nonstop are the children here. Your brilliant riposte is QED. When I can back my arguments up, garner 7.3 million rep and the respect of this board, I can portray myself in whatever manner I see fit. You have zero room to lecture me about childishness. Understand?

 

[Edgetho]

There's nothing in there about losing their insurance or cancelling or anything else.

It is an estimate of how many plans won't qualify under the lying cocksucker in chiefs namesake health care plan in 2015.

They'll either have to be re-written or the employer will have to send his employees into the exchanges.

Remember how all those people were stupid enough to believe the lying cocksucker in chief when he said.....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iGAdrQ2RpdM]A Montage of Obama's "If You Like Your Plan Keep It" Lies - YouTube[/ame]

And all the lying cocksuckers in the DISGUSTING FILTH of the LSM that further pushed the lie?

This is essentially the same thing......

Your employer won't be able to keep his present insurance because it will be noncompliant under the lying cocksucker in chief's namesake healthcare law in 2015

And that paper simply shows an estimate of the percentage of Group Plans that will be noncompliant.

dimocraps are just stupid.

 

[g5000]

Seriously?



Did you read the article or make an assumption?

Can't you read your own graphic, dipshit?

Can you read at all?

Let's repeat, shall we? Put away the yellow marker and lets review shall we?

"We don't have great data about how quickly this is happening in the individual market, but we do see it in this Kaiser Family Foundation survey of the employer market."

Contrary to what you think, it has plenty to do with employer plans. Hence the mention of "employer market" in the sentence.

Show me the great masses of employer plans being cancelled. You idiots are propagating a total fantasy.

Tell me something, do you have employer sponsored insurance? If so, then you are probably quite versed in how frequently the cost of that insurance has gone up over the past decade. Practically every year or two, employees get notified of a change to their plan, which usually includes their monthly cost going up.

Now, before ObamaCare, when this happened, did you say, "MY INSURANCE WAS CANCELLED!!!"?

No. You did not. You'd be an idiot if you did. You said, "My premiums have gone up" or "My costs have gone up" or "I am having to pay more for my insurance".

It's one of the reasons we have ObamaCare. Because the cost of health insurance has been rising faster than inflation for decades. When the GOP had all the power, they decided to do NOTHING about that problem, even though the Democrats telegraphed what they would do if they got the chance.

Well, the Democrats got the chance, and now we have ObamaCare. Ta da!


Whatever ever-changing, ever-increasing-cost plan you had with your employer before ObamaCare was grandfathered. It did not have to meet the minimum insurance coverage requirements of the ACA.

Your company may have already exceeded those requirements, but it still had a "grandfathered" status.

After ObamaCare became law, if your employer subsequently changed your plan again, and went outside the established allowable change parameters, then your employer's plan lost its grandfather status.

Those parameters are actually kind of narrow in the context of how much employer plans have been changing over the years. That's why the Obama Administration was able to predict how many employer plans would lose their grandfather status. Because employers have been changing their plans pretty frequently for a long time, so it was no mystical prediction to guess how many would change them between 2011 and 2013.

So when your employer increased your cost share by 10 percent, did you scream, "OH MY GOD, MY INSURANCE HAS BEEN CANCELLED!"? No. Because you would sound like an idiot again. Your policy wasn't cancelled, your costs went up. Just like costs have been for a long time.

But that pushed your employer plan out of grandfather country and into ACA country. Now your employer has to meet the minimum coverage requirements of the ACA.

Perhaps your employer already does. My company does. So when my company lost its grandfather status, it was, "So what?" It mattered fuck-all to us. And that will probably be the case with many employers.

This is why it does not automatically follow that when an employer lost their grandfather status they cancelled, or will cancel, their plans.

Because of the ACA, many who had subpar plans will IMPROVE their coverage. Not cancel it.

Some employers who offer subpar plans may decided to cancel rather than improve to meet the ACA standards, and decide to pay the fines instead.

But extrapolating that 100 PERCENT of the employers who lost their grandfather status will stop insuring their employees is an idiot's gambit. And to claim that is what the Obama administration predicted is a flat out lie. The Obama adminstration only went so far as to predict how many would lose their grandfather status. They did not predict how many of those would subsquently stop insuring their employees altogether.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Plans are rewritten every year. Have been for decades.

 

[Edgetho]

You can't show 55 percent of companies cancelling plans, can you?

Didn't think so.

I can, when the employer mandate takes effect in 2015, dumbass. The cancellations will occur on the effective date. Had Obama not delayed the employer mandate, those 55 percent of cancellations would have occurred THIS YEAR.

Can you show me where 55% of companies won't cancel those plans in 2015? Didn't think so.

TK believes that tens of millions of working Americans....who are currently insured with employer sponsored plans....will be uncovered in 2015. It will be a nutter landslide!

TK doesn't know that the mandate is meant to force employers with 50 or more employees to provide insurance. And that only about 1-2% of said companies don't already offer it.

TK has absolutely zero understanding of the topic he is discussing.

It is full retard.

That percentage of employee group plans will have to be either re-written or the employees will be sent into the exchanges.

THAT is what that paper shows.

Fuck but you people get stuck on stupid easily

 

[Edgetho]

Plans are rewritten every year. Have been for decades.

Yup.

And companies kick group plans to the curb every year.

Have been for decades.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Plans are rewritten every year. Have been for decades.

New plan does not equal being thrown off the old plan. It means new plan.

Fucking idiots want this to fail so bad....they fail to think. It is remarkable.

 

[francoHFW]

Horrors- some have to get better health care, overwhelmingly more cheaply....and keep their doctor...functional moron hater dupes...

 

[Edgetho]

Plans are rewritten every year. Have been for decades.

New plan does not equal being thrown off the old plan. It means new plan.

Fucking idiots want this to fail so bad....they fail to think. It is remarkable.

Not my point. Not my point at all.

My point is that this is being kept from The People. Did you know about it> Of course you didn't. Neither did anybody else.

Have you heard the lying cocksucker in chief or any of his mini-liars talk about it? Nope.

Why?

Just like the "If you like your Health Plan...." lie was a lie that I tried to tell people about and got shouted down at every turn.

This is being kept from people for a reason. A reason that you will be made rudely aware of in about 7 or 8 Months.

 

[g5000]

You can't show 55 percent of companies cancelling plans, can you?

Didn't think so.

I can, when the employer mandate takes effect in 2015, dumbass. The cancellations will occur on the effective date. Had Obama not delayed the employer mandate, those 55 percent of cancellations would have occurred THIS YEAR.

Can you show me where 55% of companies won't cancel those plans in 2015? Didn't think so.

TK believes that tens of millions of working Americans....who are currently insured with employer sponsored plans....will be uncovered in 2015. It will be a nutter landslide!

TK doesn't know that the mandate is meant to force employers with 50 or more employees to provide insurance. And that only about 1-2% of said companies don't already offer it.

TK has absolutely zero understanding of the topic he is discussing.

It is full retard.

Exactly. They forget that all those employers who currently do not provide insurance will be required to provide it. That means MORE employees will be insured, not less.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

G,

What do you think of that arrogant fuck calling you a child? Any thoughts?

I've noticed that the members on here who have the dark fantasy avatars of black knights and such are the real children on this board.

I've noticed that people like you who do nothing but troll this board nonstop are the children here. Your brilliant riposte is QED. When I can back my arguments up, garner 7.3 million rep and the respect of this board, I can portray myself in whatever manner I see fit. You have zero room to lecture me about childishness. Understand?

Looks like I struck a nerve. And so easily under all that armor, too.
So "rep" is really important to you, hmmmm? If I wanted to be popular I'd post on Democratic Underground. Why don't YOU go there and see if you can stand the heat instead of hanging in this echo chamber? Why? Because you won't get points there, chicken.

 

[healthmyths]

Can't you read your own graphic, dipshit? It says "RELINQUISHING THEIR GRANDFATHERED STATUS". It does not say "Employer Plans That Would Be Cancelled".

Get your vision checked.

It is also for the period 2011 to 2013. It is now 2014.

So when you consider then this President LIED like Hitler,et.al. to the people:
'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it'
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ar-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/

 

[g5000]

This is why Obamacare is canceling some people?s insurance plans

That article has NOTHING to do with employer plans.

Thanks for playing.

Seriously? From the link:

So why is this happening right now?

Some -- or maybe even most -- of the plans offered on the individual insurance market right now don't meet certain requirements in the health-care law. They may not offer preventive care without co-payment, for example, or leave out coverage of maternity care, one of the health-care law's 10 essential benefits.

Some of these plans have stuck around for a little bit. The health law allowed plans that existed back in March 2010, when it became a law, to keep selling coverage. These are known as "grandfathered plans:" They don't meet the health law's requirements, but as long as they don't change much, insurers can keep offering them.

Insurance companies typically do like to change their insurance plans, making changes to cost-sharing or the benefits they offer. That means that grandfathered plans have disappeared. We don't have great data about how quickly this is happening in the individual market, but we do see it in this Kaiser Family Foundation survey of the employer market.

These cancellations are, essentially, a lot of grandfathered plans exiting the insurance marketplace. From an insurance company's vantage point, grandfathered plans are a bit of a dead end: They can't enroll new subscribers and are really constrained in their ability to tweak the benefit package or cost-sharing structure. There's not a whole lot of business sense, for a managed care company, in maintaining a health plan that doesn't meet the health law's new requirements.

Did you read the article or make an assumption?

The part I bolded is an erroneous conclusion.

"These cancellations are, essentially, a lot of grandfathered plans exiting the insurance marketplace." Wrong. Dead wrong.

All the chart shows is that less employers are grandfathered with each passing year. And that is plain common sense. Any law which grandfathers some people will eventually have less and less people grandfathered as each year passes and people relinquish their status by going outside the law's parameters for maintaining that status.

It does not follow those same employers cancelled their insurance, and ten seconds of thinking would make this very obvious.

Look at the figure for 2011. It says there were 56% of employers who were grandfathered. At the end of 2013, it says there were 36%.

If the number of employers who were insuring their employees dropped from 56% to 36%, THAT WOULD BE BIG NEWS. It would be in all the papers. Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et al. would be going on and on and on about it.

But that has not happened.

So the bolded part is simply wrong. They lost their grandfather status, they did not leave the marketplace.