The Most Successful Terrorist of the 20th Century

[SAYIT]

Some Know-it-alls knew it all in 1948.
Recognizing Israel was a huge mistake at that time.
Now's a good time to rectify that mistake.

What do you have in mind?

I would suggest taking a page from the South Africa playbook:

"If international civil society is serious about urgently ending Israel’s violations of Palestinian rights, including ending the occupation, then suspension of SWIFT transactions to and from Israeli banks offers an instrument to help bring about a peaceful resolution of an intractable conflict..."

"Although access to New York banks remains essential for foreign exchange transactions because of the role of the dollar, interbank transfer instructions are conducted through the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT), which is based in Belgium. So, instead of New York — as in the period when sanctions were applied on South Africa– Belgium is now the pressure point.

'SWIFT links 8,740 financial institutions in 209 countries. Without access to SWIFT and its interbank payment network, countries are unable either to pay for imports or to receive payment for exports.

"In short, no payment — no trade."

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive

You stated that "recognizing Israel was a huge mistake at that time. Now's a good time to rectify that mistake." How does isolating Israel economically now recitfy what you claim was a mistake? Are you suggesting we choke Israel to death?

 

[georgephillip]

The international banking sanctions against South Africa brought a relatively non-violent end to a very violent apartheid state in the 1980s. Israel today is less likely to die than South Africa was two generations ago.

"Suspension of bank payments...alters the balance of power so that meaningful negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians become even possible. This is because banking sanctions impact quickly upon financial elites who have the clout to pressure governments to concede political change."

Israel doesn't have to die, but it does have to choose between being a democratic state or a Jewish State.

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive

 

[Hossfly]

For the benefit of our benighted Conservative brethren, those of us who oppose the excesses of the Jewish State don't hate Jews--we hate illegal and immoral occupations like those in Afghanistan, Iraq, ( formerly South Vietnam), South Korea, and the West Bank and Gaza.

Possibly, whatever it is Conservatives base their morality on, it's not working.

Just whom do you think you are kidding, George? It is quite obvious that you learned about Shahak from a hate site so please don't think we are going to fall for your song and dance. I am willing to bet that you never go on any other message board and start complaining about what Muslims are doing to innocent people in so many places of the Muslim world,, not even when they kill other Muslims. So if I were you, I would worry about my own morality.



jt2

 

[SAYIT]

The international banking sanctions against South Africa brought a relatively non-violent end to a very violent apartheid state in the 1980s. Israel today is less likely to die than South Africa was two generations ago.

"Suspension of bank payments...alters the balance of power so that meaningful negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians become even possible. This is because banking sanctions impact quickly upon financial elites who have the clout to pressure governments to concede political change."

Israel doesn't have to die, but it does have to choose between being a democratic state or a Jewish State.

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive

So how do economic sanctions against Israel cause the "Palestinians" to come to the peace table and how do they rectify the mistake you claim that the international community made in recognizing Israel?

 

[georgephillip]

For the benefit of our benighted Conservative brethren, those of us who oppose the excesses of the Jewish State don't hate Jews--we hate illegal and immoral occupations like those in Afghanistan, Iraq, ( formerly South Vietnam), South Korea, and the West Bank and Gaza.

Possibly, whatever it is Conservatives base their morality on, it's not working.

Just whom do you think you are kidding, George? It is quite obvious that you learned about Shahak from a hate site so please don't think we are going to fall for your song and dance. I am willing to bet that you never go on any other message board and start complaining about what Muslims are doing to innocent people in so many places of the Muslim world,, not even when they kill other Muslims. So if I were you, I would worry about my own morality.



jt2

"Above all, Shahak has the courage to say what most Israelis do not dare to say and definitely do not want to hear ... Remarkable, powerful, and provocative.’

"– London Review of Books"

Hate site, Hoss?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years

 

[Hossfly]

The international banking sanctions against South Africa brought a relatively non-violent end to a very violent apartheid state in the 1980s. Israel today is less likely to die than South Africa was two generations ago.

"Suspension of bank payments...alters the balance of power so that meaningful negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians become even possible. This is because banking sanctions impact quickly upon financial elites who have the clout to pressure governments to concede political change."

Israel doesn't have to die, but it does have to choose between being a democratic state or a Jewish State.

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive

I wonder if George can tell us what can possibly be done to the Muslim countries who harass and murder non Muslims and Muslims of different sects. I would think a big "humanitarian" as he tries to be would have a problem with this, but it actually appears that his main thing is he can't bear seeing Israel being a Jewish state. Of course it is OK with him that all the Muslim countries exist. It is a Jewish state he has a problem with. I don't think any of us really had a problem that Italy and France were mainly Catholic countries and that England was a Protestant country. Even though there were people of other religions living in these countries, we see now what these countries basically were.



jt2

 

[Hossfly]

For the benefit of our benighted Conservative brethren, those of us who oppose the excesses of the Jewish State don't hate Jews--we hate illegal and immoral occupations like those in Afghanistan, Iraq, ( formerly South Vietnam), South Korea, and the West Bank and Gaza.

Possibly, whatever it is Conservatives base their morality on, it's not working.

Just whom do you think you are kidding, George? It is quite obvious that you learned about Shahak from a hate site so please don't think we are going to fall for your song and dance. I am willing to bet that you never go on any other message board and start complaining about what Muslims are doing to innocent people in so many places of the Muslim world,, not even when they kill other Muslims. So if I were you, I would worry about my own morality.



jt2

"Above all, Shahak has the courage to say what most Israelis do not dare to say and definitely do not want to hear ... Remarkable, powerful, and provocative.’

"– London Review of Books"

Hate site, Hoss?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years

Skinhead hate site.

 

[georgephillip]

The international banking sanctions against South Africa brought a relatively non-violent end to a very violent apartheid state in the 1980s. Israel today is less likely to die than South Africa was two generations ago.

"Suspension of bank payments...alters the balance of power so that meaningful negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians become even possible. This is because banking sanctions impact quickly upon financial elites who have the clout to pressure governments to concede political change."

Israel doesn't have to die, but it does have to choose between being a democratic state or a Jewish State.

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive

So how do economic sanctions against Israel cause the "Palestinians" to come to the peace table and how do they rectify the mistake you claim that the international community made in recognizing Israel?

Palestinians have exactly zero bargaining chips in their current "negotiations" with Israel.
Banking sanctions on Israel would change that fact faster than any other non-violent option I'm aware of since rich Israelis will pressure their government to make political concessions.
Arabs put forth a peace proposal at the UNSC in 1976.
Israel and the US rejected it and have continued to do so ever since.
Apparently, there's more money in the Occupation, and banking sanctions will definitely affect that.

 

[SAYIT]

The international banking sanctions against South Africa brought a relatively non-violent end to a very violent apartheid state in the 1980s. Israel today is less likely to die than South Africa was two generations ago.

"Suspension of bank payments...alters the balance of power so that meaningful negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians become even possible. This is because banking sanctions impact quickly upon financial elites who have the clout to pressure governments to concede political change."

Israel doesn't have to die, but it does have to choose between being a democratic state or a Jewish State.

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive

So how do economic sanctions against Israel cause the "Palestinians" to come to the peace table and how do they rectify the mistake you claim that the international community made in recognizing Israel?

Palestinians have exactly zero bargaining chips in their current "negotiations" with Israel.
Banking sanctions on Israel would change that fact faster than any other non-violent option I'm aware of since rich Israelis will pressure their government to make political concessions.
Arabs put forth a peace proposal at the UNSC in 1976.
Israel and the US rejected it and have continued to do so ever since.
Apparently, there's more money in the Occupation, and banking sanctions will definitely affect that.

And even if I buy any of that camel crap (and I don't) it still doesn't explain how any of this will, as you demand, "rectify the mistake" the international community made in recognizing Israel. The fact is there is only one way to rectfy that "mistake" and you just don't have the courage to admit it's what you are demanding.

 

[georgephillip]

The international banking sanctions against South Africa brought a relatively non-violent end to a very violent apartheid state in the 1980s. Israel today is less likely to die than South Africa was two generations ago.

"Suspension of bank payments...alters the balance of power so that meaningful negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians become even possible. This is because banking sanctions impact quickly upon financial elites who have the clout to pressure governments to concede political change."

Israel doesn't have to die, but it does have to choose between being a democratic state or a Jewish State.

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive

I wonder if George can tell us what can possibly be done to the Muslim countries who harass and murder non Muslims and Muslims of different sects. I would think a big "humanitarian" as he tries to be would have a problem with this, but it actually appears that his main thing is he can't bear seeing Israel being a Jewish state. Of course it is OK with him that all the Muslim countries exist. It is a Jewish state he has a problem with. I don't think any of us really had a problem that Italy and France were mainly Catholic countries and that England was a Protestant country. Even though there were people of other religions living in these countries, we see now what these countries basically were.



jt2

One thing we should NOT do for "Muslim countries who harass and murder non-Muslims and Muslims of different sects" is to start sending them 8 million US taxpayer dollars every day. I would cut off all arms sales to Arab dictators and the Jewish State (although that might spike US Unemployment claims).

Now why don't you tell me how many innocent Muslim civilians the US military has killed since Desert Storm and how much safer all that killing has made the world? The greatest purveyor of violence on this planet hasn't changed since the US occupation of South Vietnam.

 

[Hossfly]

The international banking sanctions against South Africa brought a relatively non-violent end to a very violent apartheid state in the 1980s. Israel today is less likely to die than South Africa was two generations ago.

"Suspension of bank payments...alters the balance of power so that meaningful negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians become even possible. This is because banking sanctions impact quickly upon financial elites who have the clout to pressure governments to concede political change."

Israel doesn't have to die, but it does have to choose between being a democratic state or a Jewish State.

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive

I wonder if George can tell us what can possibly be done to the Muslim countries who harass and murder non Muslims and Muslims of different sects. I would think a big "humanitarian" as he tries to be would have a problem with this, but it actually appears that his main thing is he can't bear seeing Israel being a Jewish state. Of course it is OK with him that all the Muslim countries exist. It is a Jewish state he has a problem with. I don't think any of us really had a problem that Italy and France were mainly Catholic countries and that England was a Protestant country. Even though there were people of other religions living in these countries, we see now what these countries basically were.



jt2

One thing we should NOT do for "Muslim countries who harass and murder non-Muslims and Muslims of different sects" is to start sending them 8 million US taxpayer dollars every day. I would cut off all arms sales to Arab dictators and the Jewish State (although that might spike US Unemployment claims).

Now why don't you tell me how many innocent Muslim civilians the US military has killed since Desert Storm and how much safer all that killing has made the world? The greatest purveyor of violence on this planet hasn't changed since the US occupation of South Vietnam.

Precisely how many 'innocent' Muslim civilians? I'll admit to a small percentage.

 

[georgephillip]

So how do economic sanctions against Israel cause the "Palestinians" to come to the peace table and how do they rectify the mistake you claim that the international community made in recognizing Israel?

Palestinians have exactly zero bargaining chips in their current "negotiations" with Israel.
Banking sanctions on Israel would change that fact faster than any other non-violent option I'm aware of since rich Israelis will pressure their government to make political concessions.
Arabs put forth a peace proposal at the UNSC in 1976.
Israel and the US rejected it and have continued to do so ever since.
Apparently, there's more money in the Occupation, and banking sanctions will definitely affect that.

And even if I buy any of that camel crap (and I don't) it still doesn't explain how any of this will, as you demand, "rectify the mistake" the international community made in recognizing Israel. The fact is there is only one way to rectfy that "mistake" and you just don't have the courage to admit it's what you are demanding.

As I see it, the "mistake" the international community made in 1948 was to allow one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine to impose a Jewish State by force of arms upon the majority of Palestinians.

I don't see any way of rectifying that mistake that doesn't start with free elections for all Palestinians currently living under Israel's civil or military laws, do you?

Those elections won't occur without a strong economic incentive from rich Jews to demand painful political changes from their government, and SWIFT looks like the best NON-VIOLENT choice to make that happen.

You seem to imply I'm really seeking a violent vanishing of the Zionist State from the page of time.
Since I'm highly allergic to mushroom clouds, I'm not.

 

[SAYIT]

Palestinians have exactly zero bargaining chips in their current "negotiations" with Israel.
Banking sanctions on Israel would change that fact faster than any other non-violent option I'm aware of since rich Israelis will pressure their government to make political concessions.
Arabs put forth a peace proposal at the UNSC in 1976.
Israel and the US rejected it and have continued to do so ever since.
Apparently, there's more money in the Occupation, and banking sanctions will definitely affect that.

And even if I buy any of that camel crap (and I don't) it still doesn't explain how any of this will, as you demand, "rectify the mistake" the international community made in recognizing Israel. The fact is there is only one way to rectfy that "mistake" and you just don't have the courage to admit it's what you are demanding.

As I see it, the "mistake" the international community made in 1948 was to allow one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine to impose a Jewish State by force of arms upon the majority of Palestinians.

I don't see any way of rectifying that mistake that doesn't start with free elections for all Palestinians currently living under Israel's civil or military laws, do you?

Those elections won't occur without a strong economic incentive from rich Jews to demand painful political changes from their government, and SWIFT looks like the best NON-VIOLENT choice to make that happen.

You seem to imply I'm really seeking a violent vanishing of the Zionist State from the page of time.
Since I'm highly allergic to mushroom clouds, I'm not.

Nah, you wouldn't demand a violent end to Israel's existence as long as Israel ends, eh?

 

[SAYIT]

Palestinians have exactly zero bargaining chips in their current "negotiations" with Israel.
Banking sanctions on Israel would change that fact faster than any other non-violent option I'm aware of since rich Israelis will pressure their government to make political concessions.
Arabs put forth a peace proposal at the UNSC in 1976.
Israel and the US rejected it and have continued to do so ever since.
Apparently, there's more money in the Occupation, and banking sanctions will definitely affect that.

And even if I buy any of that camel crap (and I don't) it still doesn't explain how any of this will, as you demand, "rectify the mistake" the international community made in recognizing Israel. The fact is there is only one way to rectfy that "mistake" and you just don't have the courage to admit it's what you are demanding.

As I see it, the "mistake" the international community made in 1948 was to allow one-third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine to impose a Jewish State by force of arms upon the majority of Palestinians.

I don't see any way of rectifying that mistake that doesn't start with free elections for all Palestinians currently living under Israel's civil or military laws, do you?

Israeli "Palestinians" already vote in Israeli elections and non-Israeli "Palestinians" vote in "Palestinian" elections.
Happy now?

 

[georgephillip]

I will be when Non-Israeli Palestinians are no longer subject to Israeli laws and military occupation.

 

[SAYIT]

I will be when Non-Israeli Palestinians are no longer subject to Israeli laws and military occupation.

They have the same choices they had in 1948. Accept Israel's existence and make peace or leave.

 

[georgephillip]

That worked out so well in 1948--for the Zionists.

"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe, or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I will be when Non-Israeli Palestinians are no longer subject to Israeli laws and military occupation.

All they have to do is move back to Egypt, Jordan or Saudi Arabia.
Then they'll be out from under that Israeli thumb.

 

[georgephillip]

What should they do with the deeds to land that Israeli settlers are squatting on?

 

[SAYIT]

What should they do with the deeds to land that Israeli settlers are squatting on?

Wait for the ink to dry and then use 'em for toilet paper.