The New Pope on Poverty...

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Evidently the Pope has been asleep for the past 200 years where capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than any church could ever dream of. I will never understand why people blame the proven solution for the "problem."

Hans Rosling's 200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes - The Joy of Stats - BBC Four - YouTube

Wherein is the evidence that Capitalism was the one and only variable? This maybe the best example of what Mark Twain meant when he wrote, "there are liars, damn liars and statistics".

Its not the only variable, but, it is the dominant variable. Every economist from Milton Freidman to Karl Marx agreed that capitalism has done more than any other object to life the masses out of the binds of poverty. To disagree would put you in a very small group of historic and economic illiterates. I doubt that any one among us can find an free market economist, socialist economist, Fabian economist, communist economist, etc. who disagrees that capitalism is the dominant reason we have grown in health, wealth, and population.

It's just too bad we don't have capitalism anymore. What we have is a plutocracy in which a very few create even fewer opportunities and stagnate growth by monopolizing commerce and industry.

If you don't believe me, then all you have to do is see what happened with UPS and FedEx this past week. Didn't get your delivery before Christmas? Too fucking bad.

 

[Publius1787]

I guess we should all listen to the Pope on matters on the economy. Remind me again, what about his background qualifies him an expert on the economy?

Hmmmm.....Let's see....."

"No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." (Luke 16:13)

And I'm not a Christian. I'm just addressing your question for those who say they are.

Well there. You answered it. Luke 16:13 qualifies the pope as an economic expert.

 

[norwegen]

Did you expect the pope to come out and not advocate for the poor? The bible I read has never spoken about being rich. But I have read numerous passages about helping the poor and destitute. What did you expect? Was the pope supposed to praise the uber wealthy? Think for a second.

On the contrary, the Bible speaks well of the rich. God looked favorably on Abraham and Job, for example.

What the Bible says about wealth is that it lacks permanence and is not an object of worship.

 

[Publius1787]

Wherein is the evidence that Capitalism was the one and only variable? This maybe the best example of what Mark Twain meant when he wrote, "there are liars, damn liars and statistics".

Its not the only variable, but, it is the dominant variable. Every economist from Milton Freidman to Karl Marx agreed that capitalism has done more than any other object to life the masses out of the binds of poverty. To disagree would put you in a very small group of historic and economic illiterates. I doubt that any one among us can find an free market economist, socialist economist, Fabian economist, communist economist, etc. who disagrees that capitalism is the dominant reason we have grown in health, wealth, and population.

It's just too bad we don't have capitalism anymore. What we have is a plutocracy in which a very few create even fewer opportunities and stagnate growth by monopolizing commerce and industry.

If you don't believe me, then all you have to do is see what happened with UPS and FedEx this past week. Didn't get your delivery before Christmas? Too fucking bad.

There is not a single country where capitalism does not exist. The only question is who holds the capital.

 

[kaz]

It's just too bad we don't have capitalism anymore. What we have is a plutocracy in which a very few create even fewer opportunities and stagnate growth by monopolizing commerce and industry.

The oppression in our markets is by the only side with guns. Government. Fedex and UPS don't have guns. They can't force you to do anything.

 

[LoneLaugher]

So the Pope is concerned about the poor, yet he lives at the Vatican with chauffeurs & servants at his beckon call, dressed in silks and eating the finest foods prepared by his on-site cooks.
Add to that his organization pay no income taxes and have holdings estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
Curious.

Beckon call? Hooked on phonics.

 

[initforme]

"On the contrary, the Bible speaks well of the rich. God looked favorably on Abraham and Job, for example.

I prefer
1). Render to Caesar what is Caesars
2). It is easier to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

As a conservative I don't care what others make nor do I begrudge them anything. I one looks at their house and vehicles as a sense of pride that one worked hard to get them, that is highly questionable according to my interpretation. Having pride in a nice house is poorly placed pride. What one has done to help others is what the bible preaches about.

 

[Fishlore]

So the Pope is concerned about the poor, yet he lives at the Vatican with chauffeurs & servants at his beckon call, dressed in silks and eating the finest foods prepared by his on-site cooks.
Add to that his organization pay no income taxes and have holdings estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
Curious.

You are thinking of the wrong pope. But even in the case of popes living in the traditional style, it is silly to not see the difference between the needs of the poor and the official status of the pope. Perhaps you think the pope should sell off all the assets of the church world-wide and give the money to poor kids. It is a charming image (how much would you be willing to pay for the Sistine Ceiling?) but would do nothing beyond inflating the costs of food and clothing to address the structural causes of poverty (imperialism, capitalism etc.).

 

[JakeStarkey]

The far right are as hard on the poor as the far left.

Have mercy on the poor.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The far right are as hard on the poor as the far left.

Have mercy on the poor.

Yeah...er......uh......no........uh.......huh?

How far right.........how far left?

Those fucking scales of justice never even out, do they?

 

[g5000]

Evidently the Pope has been asleep for the past 200 years where capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than any church could ever dream of. I will never understand why people blame the proven solution for the "problem."

The Pope was not attacking capitalism. What we have now is not capitalism. It is oligarchism.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Evidently the Pope has been asleep for the past 200 years where capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than any church could ever dream of. I will never understand why people blame the proven solution for the "problem."

Hans Rosling's 200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes - The Joy of Stats - BBC Four - YouTube

Wherein is the evidence that Capitalism was the one and only variable? This maybe the best example of what Mark Twain meant when he wrote, "there are liars, damn liars and statistics".

Its not the only variable, but, it is the dominant variable. Every economist from Milton Freidman to Karl Marx agreed that capitalism has done more than any other object to life the masses out of the binds of poverty. To disagree would put you in a very small group of historic and economic illiterates. I doubt that any one among us can find an free market economist, socialist economist, Fabian economist, communist economist, etc. who disagrees that capitalism is the dominant reason we have grown in health, wealth, and population.

The link didn't mention any cause for the statistical data posted in the video yet you concluded (at least suggested) in the OP it was Capitalism alone. Now that you've acknowledge that is not so, might you elaborate on other factors - both dependent and independent of capitalism?

I can think and posit a number, but I think it's best that others hear it from you. Otherwise my comments will be co-opted by idiots who call me a "leftist".

 

[bayoubill]

So the Pope is concerned about the poor, yet he lives at the Vatican with chauffeurs & servants at his beckon call, dressed in silks and eating the finest foods prepared by his on-site cooks.
Add to that his organization pay no income taxes and have holdings estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
Curious.

well... to his credit, he did unload his Harley...

 

[1776]

Yet...the pope lives a lavish lifestyle paid for by "his followers."

I've been to the Vatican, it isn't Harlem.

 

[KGB]

So the Pope is concerned about the poor, yet he lives at the Vatican with chauffeurs & servants at his beckon call, dressed in silks and eating the finest foods prepared by his on-site cooks.
Add to that his organization pay no income taxes and have holdings estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
Curious.

it never ceases to amaze me how clueless people are on these forums. Pope Francis actually lives his words. He sneaks out late at night, dressed up as a simple priest & ministers to the poor. He lives in a Vatican guest house & routinely eats with the staff. He even made a sandwich for one of his Swiss guard who missed breakfast that morning. He suspended a German Bishop for extravagant spending on his residence in Germany. In short, the man lives by his words & shows tremendous moral leadership. I may not agree with everything he says, but I respect the fact that his actions back up his convictions. He is the real deal. The Catholic Church has always favored the poor since its founding. That is nothing new. However, we have the first Pope in a long time who actually lives by his words. That is pretty new. I'm willing to cut him a little slack in that regard.

The secret to Pope Francis' fame REVEALED - Living Faith - Home & Family - Catholic Online

 

[Publius1787]

Wherein is the evidence that Capitalism was the one and only variable? This maybe the best example of what Mark Twain meant when he wrote, "there are liars, damn liars and statistics".

Its not the only variable, but, it is the dominant variable. Every economist from Milton Freidman to Karl Marx agreed that capitalism has done more than any other object to life the masses out of the binds of poverty. To disagree would put you in a very small group of historic and economic illiterates. I doubt that any one among us can find an free market economist, socialist economist, Fabian economist, communist economist, etc. who disagrees that capitalism is the dominant reason we have grown in health, wealth, and population.

The link didn't mention any cause for the statistical data posted in the video yet you concluded (at least suggested) in the OP it was Capitalism alone. Now that you've acknowledge that is not so, might you elaborate on other factors - both dependent and independent of capitalism?

I can think and posit a number, but I think it's best that others hear it from you. Otherwise my comments will be co-opted by idiots who call me a "leftist".

Private Property rights, rule of law, liberalization of trade, the philosophy of the enlightenment being codified in law, a maturing economy brought forth by the industrial revolution, advancements in technology (Trains, the internal combustion engine, electricity, the telegraph, the telephone &c.), the demise of feudalism, public education, and yes, imperialism, among a whole host of other factors lead to what you saw on the chart. how much of that can be attributed to capitalism? Nearly all of it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The far right are as hard on the poor as the far left.

Have mercy on the poor.

Yeah...er......uh......no........uh.......huh?

How far right.........how far left?

Those fucking scales of justice never even out, do they?

By their acts people know them. When acting far left or far right, the actors are very clear in their intentions.

Neither extreme can hide.

 

[Publius1787]

Evidently the Pope has been asleep for the past 200 years where capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than any church could ever dream of. I will never understand why people blame the proven solution for the "problem."

The Pope was not attacking capitalism. What we have now is not capitalism. It is oligarchism.

No you cannot get rid of capitalism. The only question is who holds the capital and under what circumstances does that capital produce the best results.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Evidently the Pope has been asleep for the past 200 years where capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than any church could ever dream of. I will never understand why people blame the proven solution for the "problem."

The Pope was not attacking capitalism. What we have now is not capitalism. It is oligarchism.

No you cannot get rid of capitalism. The only question is who holds the capital and under what circumstances does that capital produce the best results.

Really? That is still a question? How can that be? Capitalism itself is "the solution".

Blowhard.

 

[orogenicman]

So the Pope is concerned about the poor, yet he lives at the Vatican with chauffeurs & servants at his beckon call, dressed in silks and eating the finest foods prepared by his on-site cooks.
Add to that his organization pay no income taxes and have holdings estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
Curious.

Obviously, you are confusing the present Pope with the previous one.

Curious, to exactly whom should the Vatican, an internationally recognized sovereign entity, pay taxes?