The NEWEST Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Sixties Fan]

Part 3

The anti-Zionist lies do not come out of thin air. These lies are what these people are taught. In Palestinian schools, textbooks were found in which the Hebrew had been digitally removed from images of the stamps. What makes it even worse is that these were used inside UN schools funded by the west:

One of the funniest of these examples is this one. They even went for the manholes:

In the image, which reads ‘Government of Palestine P.W.D Haifa District’ are two giveaways. The first is the Hebrew writing in the top right which spells out ‘Kremener’. The second is the logo underneath.. Alexander Kremener was a German Jew who had fled Hitler in 1933. These were made by a company owned and run by Zionist Jews.

British documents​

Some even try to use an image of official British documents to prove that ‘Palestine’ existed. These literally have the words ‘British’ plastered throughout. First there is this British Passport:

And then the British driving licence:

The Palestine Football team​

Another much used (and funny) example is the idea that the imaginary state of Palestine had a football team:

The team sent to Australia in 1939 was the Maccabi Tel Aviv side – with a few players taken from other local Jewish teams to legitimise the use of ‘Palestine’:

This from the Daily Telegraph, 3 June 1939:

The colourful Twitter history of Palestine

A look at the Twitter history of Palestine. And how across social media a lack of real evidence led to a colourful (but very fake) creation

david-collier.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

Part 4

The emblems of the modern identity​

Far too many just do not understand the history. 4400+ retweets and half a million views just for posting an image of this flag with the words ‘Palestine will be free’:

The history of this flag only goes back 59 years. It was adopted by the Palestine Liberation Organisation in 1964 as a symbol for the liberation of Palestine at a time when all of Judea, Samaria (the West Bank of the River Jordan) and Gaza was in Arab hands. Which means this 1964 flag was born as a symbol for the total destruction of Israel.

The absence of real history does lead to absurdity. In 2021 the Palestinians ‘lowered‘ the flag as an act of mourning for the Balfour Declaration – that took place 47 years before the flag had even been invented.

Twitter history – ‘Free Palestine’​

And finally, there is the outline of the ‘state’ itself. With half a million views and almost 5000 retweets, this one sure is popular. It is a map of the ‘Palestine’ that anti-Israel activists want to be ‘free’:

This map did not exist until the 20th century when colonial powers drew it. It is a map created to facilitate the rebirth of the ancient Jewish homeland. The only thing that differentiates an Arab in Akko from an Arab in Southern Lebanon, or Syria or Jordan, is a colonial pen.

When the Muslims last had control (this from 1899) this is what the map looked like – with the entire area split into Ottoman administrative areas:

It was the colonial powers that drew the new lines. Adding space (the deserts) south of their Holy Land in order to give the Jewish homeland some ‘depth’. In the end the British chopped it up anyway – and gave away some of the Holy Land to create Trans-Jordan (now Jordan).

When they hold up the ‘free Palestine’ map they are worshipping a colonial construct.

There is nothing authentic about their argument at all.

The colourful Twitter history of Palestine

A look at the Twitter history of Palestine. And how across social media a lack of real evidence led to a colourful (but very fake) creation

david-collier.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

Today in Jewish History​

• Hebron Massacre (1929)

Sixty-seven Jewish men, women and children were slaughtered, and scores wounded, raped and maimed, by their Arab neighbors in the city of Hebron, who rioted for three days amid cries of "Slaughter the Jews." The killings began on Friday afternoon, 17 Av, and most of the victims lost their lives on Shabbat, 18 Av. The survivors were forced to evacuate to Jerusalem, and the ancient Jewish community of Hebron, which had lived in relative peace in the city for hundreds of years, was not revived until after Israel's capture of Hebron in the 1967 Six Day war.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Today in Jewish History​

• Hebron Massacre (1929)

Sixty-seven Jewish men, women and children were slaughtered, and scores wounded, raped and maimed, by their Arab neighbors in the city of Hebron, who rioted for three days amid cries of "Slaughter the Jews." The killings began on Friday afternoon, 17 Av, and most of the victims lost their lives on Shabbat, 18 Av. The survivors were forced to evacuate to Jerusalem, and the ancient Jewish community of Hebron, which had lived in relative peace in the city for hundreds of years, was not revived until after Israel's capture of Hebron in the 1967 Six Day war.

You are starting the story in the middle.

 

[rosends]

You are starting the story in the middle.

Exactly!
He is ignoring the background here -- the riots of 1920, 21 and 23, the Mufti's diatribes against Jews, the riots against Jews at the Western Wall and in Jerusalem.

But even this was all part of a sad cycle of violence -- Jews marched, waving flags, so OF COURSE the only response was rape and murder. What did the Jews expect?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Exactly!
He is ignoring the background here -- the riots of 1920, 21 and 23, the Mufti's diatribes against Jews, the riots against Jews at the Western Wall and in Jerusalem.

But even this was all part of a sad cycle of violence -- Jews marched, waving flags, so OF COURSE the only response was rape and murder. What did the Jews expect?

But even this was all part of a sad cycle of violence

Wasn't that cycle started by colonial settlers?

 

[rosends]

Wasn't that cycle started by colonial settlers?

You mean the Ottomans or earlier? Did they get raped and murdered also?

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Story Of The Israel vs Palestine Conflict | Promises & Betrayals | Timeline​

 

[rylah]

Beginning of the Month of Elul - 1st Zionist Congress

Today, the first day of the Hebrew month of Elul, marks the 120th anniversary of the First Zionist Congress. That three-day gathering, convened by Theodor Herzl in the Swiss city of Basel on August 29, 1897, might well be the most politically significant meeting of any group of Jews during the last 1,800 years, and it was almost certainly the most important step on the road to establishing a modern Jewish state. The event, like the state it helped create, was also the most improbable of success stories; roundly opposed by the majority of opinion leaders in the Jewish world and viewed with skepticism even by many of the prominent Jewish nationalists who chose to attend, it could easily have failed at any point from when it was announced until the end of its final session.

The story of the First Zionist Congress is worth telling today even more than in the past. Nearly seven decades after the birth of Israel, the Congress tends to be taken for granted as the obvious step needed at the time to bring about the founding of a Jewish state. Its success, too, can easily be seen as all-too-obvious. Indeed, as Herzl wrote in his diary on the eve of the gathering: “The whole thing is one of those balancing feats which look just as natural after they are accomplished as they seemed improbable before they were undertaken.” For that very reason, we need to go back to the moment when such a convocation seemed so highly “improbable.” Only by doing so can we understand why Herzl chose to risk everything on this gambit, what enabled him to beat the towering odds against its success, and what major transformations it brought about in the Jewish national rebirth.

In this essay, I aim to do just that.

In his first diary entry of 1897, Herzl sized up the campaign he had begun nearly a year earlier with the February 1896 publication in German of his short, trenchant book, Der Judenstaat—known to English readers as The Jewish State.

As he frankly acknowledged, the outlook was less than rosy:

I fear the best moment has passed. That came in the months that have gone by since my stay in Constantinople, when . . . I was still able to negotiate with the pashas on the basis of my initial prestige. . . . Meanwhile, unless I am mistaken, Zionism is gradually managing to gain the respect of the general public in all sorts of countries. Little by little people are beginning to take us more seriously. The well-to-do Jews, it is true, behave miserably now as before. And as my loyal [deputy Jacob] de Haas writes from London, “Everybody is waiting to see how the cat will jump.”

Herzl had long believed that there were two keys to bringing a Jewish state into existence, both of them involving top-down politics. Within the Jewish world, he sought the backing of the prominent businessmen-philanthropists who were viewed, by Jews and others, as the natural leaders of the Jewish people. The Jewish State began as notes for a conversation with Baron Maurice de Hirsch, was transformed into an address to the Rothschild family after the former dismissed Herzl’s ideas as too “fantastic,” and was published only after Herzl realized the Rothschilds were unlikely to give his proposal serious consideration. Although he still clung to the hope that a positive reception for his book could bring the Jewish plutocrats around, that view became untenable after a series of disappointing meetings with leading English Jewish philanthropists in July 1896, followed by a dialogue of the deaf with Baron Edmond de Rothschild later that month.

Much can be said about the differences in substance and style that prevented a meeting of the minds. But the simplest explanation is that Herzl’s call for establishing a Jewish state through negotiation with the major powers of the day, and settling masses of Jews in it, flew in the face of the century-long project of emancipation, through which the leading figures of Jewry sought to facilitate their people’s assimilation into the European countries in which most of them lived. This they would accomplish by demonstrating Jewish loyalty to these states, reducing anti-Semitism, and securing equal rights.

Some of these philanthropists were willing, on humanitarian grounds, to assist Jews seeking to flee Eastern Europe and settle in modest numbers in Palestine, which was a part of the Ottoman empire. Hence, they were willing to give qualified support to Ḥovevei Tsiyon (“Lovers of Zion”), the main organization pursuing this task—but not to the far more radical Herzl.



Read more -

The Most Politically Significant Meeting of Any Group of Jews in the Last 1,800 Years

The story of Theodor Herzl and the First Zionist Congress, convened 120 years ago on this date.

mosaicmagazine.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

“The Jewish brain is a physiological product not to be despised,” he concluded. “If a body be again given in which its soul can lodge, it may again enrich the world.”

Prime minister Herbert Henry Asquith was puzzled by Samuel’s “almost lyrical outburst,” his “dithyrambic memorandum, urging that… we should take Palestine, into which the scattered Jews would in time swarm back from all quarters of the globe.”

Asquith, however, resigned the following year — a victim of frustration with the war’s stalling progress — and was replaced by the younger, more mercurial Lloyd George, who was far more captivated by the Zionist vision. It was he, even more than his foreign secretary Arthur Balfour, who would ultimately be responsible for his government’s Balfour Declaration in November 1917 (the Peel Commission would later hear secret testimony from George, too, on the genesis of that fateful document).

A month after that declaration, British forces under General Edmund Allenby entered Jerusalem in triumph. Four centuries of Ottoman rule were over, and Palestine’s British era had dawned.


(full article online)

Herbert Samuel’s secret 1937 testimony on the infamous Mufti of Jerusalem revealed

Newly revealed files show how Palestine’s first high commissioner – a Jew and a Zionist – defended tapping Amin al-Husseini, lamented that ‘Jews can be extremely irritating people’

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

Jewish-American journalist Norman Cousins once said, “History is a vast early warning system.” This week we speak with Oren Kessler, the author of “Palestine 1936,” who would likely agree. But as we see in Kessler’s new book, history can also be a collection of missed opportunities.

“David Ben-Gurion, starting in about 1933-34, had a series of meetings with a man by the name Musa Alami and he and Ben-Gurion met again and again throughout the early mid-1930s and they come tantalizingly close to some sort of an agreement before everything goes wrong, as tends to happen,” Kessler said this week in Jerusalem’s Nomi Studios.

Kessler’s new book is about the Arab Revolt that took place in 1936-1939. Watching the seemingly endless tide of Jewish population, Arabs began a series of murderous attacks on the Jewish popular, which quickly snowballed into a full-fledged intifada.

In “Palestine 1936,” Kessler argues, quite convincingly, that those years in British Mandate Palestine form the roots of the Middle East conflict. The book attempts to illuminate all three sides of the complex relationship between the British, Jews and Arabs as they attempted to occupy the Holy Land during these formative years.

Kessler is a journalist and political analyst based in Tel Aviv. He spent five years researching and writing “Palestine 1936” and it’s clearly a labor he loved.

There are many lessons that have yet to be learned as we see this bloody history repeating itself in Israel, even today. So this week, we ask author Oren Kessler, what mattered then and why does that matter now?

The following podcast interview has been very lightly edited.


(full article online)

What Matters Now to author Oren Kessler: 1936 Palestine’s missed peace deal

In 'Palestine 1936,' Kessler delves into dusty archives to bring to life the overlooked saga of the 3-year Arab Revolt that arguably forms the roots of today's Middle East conflict

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

• In 1924 Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties. The Palestinians were the sovereigns inside their territory that was defined by international borders. Palestine was administered by a Mandate that had no sovereignty or territory.
• In 1925 the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine.
• In November of 1947 The UN General Assembly passed a non binding resolution to partition Palestine. This resolution failed and was never implemented by the Security Council.
• In December of 1947 foreign Zionist gangs began ethnically cleansing Palestine. About 300,000 Palestinians became refugees before the start of the 1948 war. This was the beginning of what the Palestinians call the Nakba.
• In May of 1948 five Arab armies entered Palestine to engage Israeli forces. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine continued during this time. Palestine had no army and was not involved in this conflict.
• The fighting of the 1948 war ended when the UN Security Council called for an armistice. An armistice calls for an end of the fighting without designating winners or losers. Nobody lost the 1948 war.
• The Armistice Agreements drew green lines around and through Palestine to limit troop movements. These lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation. Occupations do not acquire territory or sovereignty. No Palestinian territory or sovereignty was ceded.
• Jordan attempted, but failed, to annex the West Bank. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that move. The rest of the world considered the West Bank to be occupied Palestinian territory as they still do today.
• Palestine has never ceded anything within its international borders.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Land, Space & Memory: Indigenous Experiences from West Asia | Professor Rashid Khalidi | 2023​

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[rylah]

Land, Space & Memory: Indigenous Experiences from West Asia | Professor Rashid Khalidi | 2023​

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[rylah]

The Mandate had no territory to give. The 1924 Palestinians had sovereignty. About 5% were Jews.

By 1924 Palestine was defined by the title of the Jewish nation to the land.
It wasn't about "giving" land, but recognizing its title in international law.

What is your point, minorities don't have rights to national sovereignty?

 

[P F Tinmore]

By 1924 Palestine was defined by the title of the Jewish nation to the land.
It wasn't about "giving" land, but recognizing its title in international law.

What is your point, minorities don't have rights to national sovereignty?

The land was ceded to Palestine. The Palestinians got the nationality and the sovereignty.

 

[Hollie]

The land was ceded to Palestine. The Palestinians got the nationality and the sovereignty.

Nonsense.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Nonsense.

Link?