The North Pole could melt this year

[Chris]

now that is an ignorant statement if I ever saw one. How can you debate the current change, but want to exclude the facts of previous changes.

Talk about an unscientific approach.

What happened in the past does not effect what is happening now.

 

[Chris]

And aren't negative feedbacks in nature PROPORTIONAL? In other words, the more CO2 that gets put into the atmosphere, the more those negative feedbacks counterbalance it.

If the negative feedbacks were working then CO2 would not have increased by one third.

 

[DeeJ1971]

Great post, and to answer your question, I want to be very sure

Thanks.......and I do too. The AGW theorists claim to be so worried about the millions of people that they say will die from rising sea levels and such. What about the millions that will starve to death because they won't economically advance? The industrial revolution is responsible for the advancement of hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. We KNOW that third world poverty kills millions. That is not a stand alone theory.

 

[Chris]

Thanks.......and I do too. The AGW theorists claim to be so worried about the millions of people that they say will die from rising sea levels and such. What about the millions that will starve to death because they won't economically advance? The industrial revolution is responsible for the advancement of hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. We KNOW that third world poverty kills millions. That is not a stand alone theory.

I don't think you have to worry. No one is going to do sh*t about global warming until something drastic happens. There are too many moneyed interests that don't want anything done.

 

[Charles_Main]

What happened in the past does not effect what is happening now.

Yes, but it can give you insight into what is happening now, the fact that you want to Ignore the past hurts your credibility on the issue if you ask me.

 

[DeeJ1971]

There is no need to test the validity of the ice core samples because they are testing the actual air from ancient eras.

Nice try though.

I guess you're right. There is no need to VALIDATE the theory that you BELIEVE that the air taken from the ice samples has the same content that it did when it was frozen. That is what religion is all about. That is what this is for you.

 

[DeeJ1971]

If the negative feedbacks were working then CO2 would not have increased by one third.

If you have a blood sugar monitor on, and you eat a candy bar, your blood sugar might go up by 1/3. Recognizing this, your pancreas starts to secrete insulin, bringing your blood sugar back down. So does that mean that the negative feedbacks aren't working? Some people have a very high tolerance for low blood sugar. I have an extremely high tolerance for low blood sugar. I've tested myself at work before where I've had a very low reading and completely without symptoms. Others at a higher level were hungry and symptomatic.

Most everything in nature has a proportional negative feedback.

Nice try though.

 

[Chris]

I guess you're right. There is no need to VALIDATE the theory that you BELIEVE that the air taken from the ice samples has the same content that it did when it was frozen. That is what religion is all about. That is what this is for you.

No, religion is believing in something you can't see.

The air in the ice core samples was tested, and the study was peer reviewed. You are just grasping at straws.

 

[DeeJ1971]

No, religion is believing in something you can't see.

The air in the ice core samples was tested, and the study was peer reviewed. You are just grasping at straws.

The accuracy of the content has not been validated. You admit this yourself and say there is no reason to. It doesn't matter to you that the content of that air now might not be the same as when the air froze. The scientific process does care however. This is a fundamental concept taught starting in 5th grade science class when the kids start doing science projects. This is a standard they are held to. It has been in every science project I've helped my kids with and it was reinforced to them over and over again.

Sadly, what passes for good science now days are stand alone theories that have not been validated for accuracy. Why might that be? It isn't that the scientists aren't experts in their fields. It probably has a lot to do with the complexity of the issue and the inexact nature of it. It very likely has to do with politics corrupting the standards of the scientific community.

 

[Chris]

The accuracy of the content has not been validated. You admit this yourself and say there is no reason to. It doesn't matter to you that the content of that air now might not be the same as when the air froze. The scientific process does care however. This is a fundamental concept taught starting in 5th grade science class when the kids start doing science projects. This is a standard they are held to. It has been in every science project I've helped my kids with and it was reinforced to them over and over again.

Sadly, what passes for good science now days are stand alone theories that have not been validated for accuracy. Why might that be? It isn't that the scientists aren't experts in their fields. It probably has a lot to do with the complexity of the issue and the inexact nature of it. It very likely has to do with politics corrupting the standards of the scientific community.

The politics that are corrupting standards in the scientific community are coming from the White House.

 

[Charles_Main]

The politics that are corrupting standards in the scientific community are coming from the White House.

Yes it is all bushes fault. You guys are just so blinded by hate For Bush, you can not see that the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans.

Vote 3rd party!!!

 

[DeeJ1971]

The politics that are corrupting standards in the scientific community are coming from the White House.

What a cop out of an argument. You haven't addressed why it is that is doesn't matter to you that the content of air in the spaces now might not be the same as it was when the ice froze. That the accuracy of the content has not been validated. That a basic rule of the scientific process doesn't mean anything to you.

 

[Chris]

Yes it is all bushes fault. You guys are just so blinded by hate For Bush, you can not see that the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans.

Vote 3rd party!!!

I tend to agree. Ralph Nader probably has the best ideas, but he is such a douch.

 

[Charles_Main]

I tend to agree. Ralph Nader probably has the best ideas, but he is such a douch.

So what vote for him anyways, I know he cant win this time, but if people vote for him, or for Bob Barr, or for the Green party in enough numbers, Maybe we will break the stranglehold of power the Dems and Republicans currently have on us.

 

[BrianH]

We are not debating past changes, we are debating the cause of the current changes. Climatologists have computer models that can predict the effect of raising CO2 by one third. They feel confident that they understand what is going on. Could Nature trump the effect of the rise in CO2? Of course. Is there any evidence that this is happening? I don't think so. The pole continues to melt, the glaciers continue to melt, and the temperatures continue to rise. At what point does this become a problem for us?

But Kirk, unless you can fully understand the reasons for past changes, you can't even begin to understand the reason for this change.

 

[Charles_Main]

But Kirk, unless you can fully understand the reasons for past changes, you can't even begin to understand the reason for this change.

I told him this already, and he dismissed it.

What I want to know is, being it is the hight of summer right now, How much Ice is there right now, is it gone yet?

 

[Chris]

But Kirk, unless you can fully understand the reasons for past changes, you can't even begin to understand the reason for this change.

Sorry, talking about past changes is just a deflection.

 

[Charles_Main]

Sorry, talking about past changes is just a deflection.

LOL tell that to a scientist.

 

[Chris]

LOL tell that to a scientist.

LOL!

Have you ever talked to a scientist about global warming?

 

[Charles_Main]

LOL!

Have you ever talked to a scientist about global warming?

I suppose you do all the time right, I do not need to talk to one, to know they do not share your opinion that past changes are not relevant. Scientists look at all the facts, Unlike you who seems to want to only focus on those which support your Ideas.

at the least Scientists look at past changes to see how this current period of change compares to them. I am not sure why you think they would not, or that we should not.

anyways I was not joking when I asked about how much ice is left at the poll right now. Do you have a link that shows the ice coverage as of sometime this month? Is there a view from space we can look at that is in real time? Please do not get mad, and think I am messing with you here, I really want to know, and am having trouble finding it on line.