The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Sarah G]

Zimmerman has not received a fair trial. His rights have been violated. He has already been found guilty. That happened the day the U.S. President weighed in, and the corrupt MSM declared him 'Evil White Man.' If found guilty, he has a good chance on appeal. We are all entitled to a fair trial. It's our sacred right. This is just an ugly show-trial at this point. It's a shameful injustice.

Don't worry about George Zimmerman, even I believe he is going to walk away from this with a not guilty.

He'll live a nice long life and may never murder anymore teenage Black kids but racism and anger issues are hard to treat even if he ever seeks treatment.

 

[wharfrat]

if zimmerman wins self defense

the is no lessor charge of manslaughter

Explain how self defense excuses negligence leading to the death of a human being.

Because if Zimmerman "wins self defense," that would imply the jury would feel Zimmerman was justified in his actions; that his actions would act as an affirmative defense to what otherwise would constitute murder.

In Florida, second degree murder is defined, in part, as the "unlawful killing of a human being." If the jury buys self defense, then the killing is no longer "unlawful." See: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Culpable negligence wouldn't attach because Zimmerman would then be justified.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Would it be self defense if there was a bully who bullied a kid, tormented, day in and day out and finally the kid gave him a kicking he deserved and the bully shot him right between the eyes. Self defense. Right?

Kids can carry lawfully ?

 

[Katzndogz]

You did lie or you just didn't know what you were talking about. The blood stain was not on the cuff like you all have been spewing, both arms were checked elbow to cuff. The stain was on the waist part of the sweatshirt and it was a small little tiny spot.

May not mean much but what else have you been spinning here? If you're watching the WP for info instead of looking at all the reports, we now know you are getting less than accurate info. LA Times too.

I told you about the hoodie just as an aside. It was what I heard the DNA guy talk about.

sorry marilyn, the state put on a terrible case based on very sketchey evidence. GZ will be acquited and blacks will riot in the streets of all of our cities and burn their own neighborhoods.

We are living in a sick society when the media decides which cases will go to trial based on racial issues that will generate ratings.

If TM was white of GZ was black this case would never have made the news and the shooter would never have been charged because there is no evidence of a crime.

Oh, no evidence huh? This case went to trial because he murdered a kid.

The case went to trial because of PC pressure. Up until PC pressure was brought to bear, Zimmerman wasn't even arrested.

One of the prosecution witnesses that hurt their case so much was the investigator who was forced to resign due to PC pressure.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Well yeah...if he wins...he wins.

But...they could drop the M2 in deliberations and find negligence and go with manslaughter.

In other words.

M2...not guilty...manslaughter...guilty.

if it is self defense he walks on it all

however if it is not self defense

and no ill will

then they could go manslaughter

if they find ill will

then it is M2

you are right on everything but the first one, imo....they could very well in deliberations find that he was in fear of severe injury and defended himself thus eliminating M2, but still negligent and guilty of manslaughter.

Its not an all or nothing...thats why there are lesser charges included.

Now if they find that he rightly acted in self defense and was not negligent...then he walks free and clear...one or the other? And he will be found guilty of either M2 (not likely at all...no way they give him M2...I wouldnt) or manslaughter.

they would have to find he did not shoot martin in self defense

and that he didnt do it with a depraved mindset

then it would be manslaughter

if they show depravity

then it is M2

 

[Sarah G]

sorry marilyn, the state put on a terrible case based on very sketchey evidence. GZ will be acquited and blacks will riot in the streets of all of our cities and burn their own neighborhoods.

We are living in a sick society when the media decides which cases will go to trial based on racial issues that will generate ratings.

If TM was white of GZ was black this case would never have made the news and the shooter would never have been charged because there is no evidence of a crime.

Oh, no evidence huh? This case went to trial because he murdered a kid.

The case went to trial because of PC pressure. Up until PC pressure was brought to bear, Zimmerman wasn't even arrested.

One of the prosecution witnesses that hurt their case so much was the investigator who was forced to resign due to PC pressure.

I wouldn't call it PC. The police chief was fired because he mishandled the case. You just don't allow someone who minutes ago murdered a minor. Who does that?

 

[Sunshine]

Nope.............Zimmerman said while he was on the stand that Trayvon tried to grab his gun which is why Zimmerman shot him.

Like I said.........................Google it and you'll see, only problem is that you're going to have to wade through a couple of pages where others have stated that Zimmerman said Trayvon grabbed the gun, but of course, they're only blog pages.

Zimmerman said it while he was being interviewed on FOX News, and also said it while he was on the stand. Matter of fact, it's supposedly one of the cornerstones that his defense is built on.

Trayvon never grabbed the gun, as well as never placed his hand over Zimmerman's nose and mouth (again, as he claimed in the courtroom), because the DNA evidence says otherwise.

Like I said.................I hope Zimmerman burns for at least 5 years in GP.

Yes, Zimmerman said Trayvon *tried* to grab the gun. That is not the same thing as saying Trayvon grabbed the gun. You understand the difference, right? So no surprise that T's DNA was not on the gun since he never touched it.

lack of DNA does not prove that martin did not touch the gun

many factors including poor collection cause that

The forensics expert testified that there were NO fingerprints on the gun not even Zimmerman's, due to the rain. DNA is far more perishable than fingerprints.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

if zimmerman wins self defense

the is no lessor charge of manslaughter

Well yeah...if he wins...he wins.

But...they could drop the M2 in deliberations and find negligence and go with manslaughter.

In other words.

M2...not guilty...manslaughter...guilty.

if it is self defense he walks on it all

however if it is not self defense

and no ill will

then they could go manslaughter

if they find ill will

then it is M2

Jon,

Have you heard anything on which Standard Jury Instruction will be used at closing? I've been searching, but haven't found anything set in stone yet.

A couple of links for those interested:
STATE OF FLORIDA V. ZIMMERMAN ANALYSIS 6/30/2013 - Constitutionally Speaking with Joseph Haynes Davis Esq. | Constitutionally Speaking with Joseph Haynes Davis Esq.

Standard Jury Instructions in Criminal Cases

 

[Esmeralda]

Both injuries are minor.

No they aren't. The man has had a weight gain this past year consistent with hitting damage to the skull. People with that kind of an injury are candidates for early onset dementia, personality change, etc. The blood pattern is consistent with having his head being hit on concrete that has an edge to it, such as the edge of a sidewalk or curb, pebbles on the concrete, or whatever.

What happened to Zimmerman was horrific. His response was to save himself, because he thought he was being hit so hard he could die. Especially when the guy says something to the effect of the other person is going to die.

Don't think so, HaHa.. He's just a fatass. I read somewhere he isn't working out anymore, he is very depressed (probably because he murdered a kid) and he eats too much.

Glad he has enough to eat..

He is depressed because he is going to be spending a lot of time in prison, and there will be certain people there who are not going to want to be friendly toward someone who profiled, stalked and killed an innocent, unarmed black teenager. I think he is terrified in the extreme, and he should be. If he is found innocent, it will be open season on black teenagers from now on.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Well yeah...if he wins...he wins.

But...they could drop the M2 in deliberations and find negligence and go with manslaughter.

In other words.

M2...not guilty...manslaughter...guilty.

if it is self defense he walks on it all

however if it is not self defense

and no ill will

then they could go manslaughter

if they find ill will

then it is M2

Jon,

Have you heard anything on which Standard Jury Instruction will be used at closing? I've been searching, but haven't found anything set in stone yet.

A couple of links for those interested:
STATE OF FLORIDA V. ZIMMERMAN ANALYSIS 6/30/2013 - Constitutionally Speaking with Joseph Haynes Davis Esq. | Constitutionally Speaking with Joseph Haynes Davis Esq.

Standard Jury Instructions in Criminal Cases

i thought it is out there i will have to look around

 

[25Caliber]

[MENTION=42969]jon_berzerk[/MENTION]

Hey bro, I was doing some reading and it appears you are right. Here is what I found (Florida Law):

To prove the crime of Manslaughter, the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

(Victim) is dead.
Give 2a, 2b, or 2c depending upon allegations and proof.
2. a. (Defendant) intentionally caused the death of (victim).
2. b. (Defendant) intentionally procured the death of (victim).
2. c. The death of (victim) was caused by the culpable negligence of (defendant).

However, the defendant cannot be guilty of manslaughter if the killing was either justifiable or excusable homicide as I have previously explained those terms.

I was wrong...you were right...my apologies. If the jury finds that he acted rightfully in self defense then he walks on all charges...lesser charge of manslaughter doesnt apply. I learned something today .

Thank you for your patience...Im not an attorney and on some occasions it really shows...lol.

 

[jon_berzerk]

[MENTION=9370]Jon[/MENTION]-berzerk

Hey bro, I was doing some reading and it appears you are right. Here is what I found (Florida Law):

To prove the crime of Manslaughter, the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

(Victim) is dead.
Give 2a, 2b, or 2c depending upon allegations and proof.
2. a. (Defendant) intentionally caused the death of (victim).
2. b. (Defendant) intentionally procured the death of (victim).
2. c. The death of (victim) was caused by the culpable negligence of (defendant).

However, the defendant cannot be guilty of manslaughter if the killing was either justifiable or excusable homicide as I have previously explained those terms.

I was wrong...you were right...my apologies.

look at 782.07

782.07 Manslaughter; aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult; aggravated manslaughter of a child; aggravated manslaughter of an officer, a firefighter, an emergency medical technician, or a paramedic.—
(1) The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s


"without lawful justification"

self defense is lawful justification

so if zimmerman is found to be not guilty of m2 because he

acted in the lawful justification (self defense)

the same lawful act resides in the manslaughter charge as well

 

[Sunshine]

if it is self defense he walks on it all

however if it is not self defense

and no ill will

then they could go manslaughter

if they find ill will

then it is M2

you are right on everything but the first one, imo....they could very well in deliberations find that he was in fear of severe injury and defended himself thus eliminating M2, but still negligent and guilty of manslaughter.

Its not an all or nothing...thats why there are lesser charges included.

Now if they find that he rightly acted in self defense and was not negligent...then he walks free and clear...one or the other? And he will be found guilty of either M2 (not likely at all...no way they give him M2...I wouldnt) or manslaughter.

they would have to find he did not shoot martin in self defense

and that he didnt do it with a depraved mindset

then it would be manslaughter

if they show depravity

then it is M2

Depraved heart actually applies to an unintentional killing. This was a intentional killing in self defense.

Good article about it, several SCOTUS cases referenced:

Depraved Heart Murder

Proposed jury instructions from the article:

Proposed Jury Instruction: You may find the defendant guilty of second degree murder if you find from the evidence presented to you that the defendant:


1) while engaged in a grossly reckless act;

2) unintentionally;
3) caused the death of another;

4) and in causing the death did so with extreme indifference for the value of human life and the safety of others.

Zimmerman was not being reckless. Nor was his act unintentional. He shot li'l Trayvon in self defense.

 

[RKMBrown]

if zimmerman wins self defense

the is no lessor charge of manslaughter

Explain how self defense excuses negligence leading to the death of a human being.

Because if Zimmerman "wins self defense," that would imply the jury would feel Zimmerman was justified in his actions; that his actions would act as an affirmative defense to what otherwise would constitute murder.

In Florida, second degree murder is defined, in part, as the "unlawful killing of a human being." If the jury buys self defense, then the killing is no longer "unlawful." See: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Culpable negligence wouldn't attach because Zimmerman would then be justified.

Yes, but the lesser included charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, is not murder. Your point about self-defense and 2nd degree murder do not apply to the lesser charge. That would be like saying you can get away with illegal parking if you killed someone a few days later in self defense. The killing and the parking are two different crimes. More particularly, in this case, the negligence of GZ that led to the death of TM is a different crime than the killing of TM in self defense, if self defense is ruled for the 2nd degree murder charge.

 

[testarosa]

if it is self defense he walks on it all

however if it is not self defense

and no ill will

then they could go manslaughter

if they find ill will

then it is M2

Did you just make that up or can you back it up with facts?

if it is ruled self defense

he walks on all of it

go read the Florida statues

Can we read the statutes instead?

I never get much out of reading statues for some reason.

;-)

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh, no evidence huh? This case went to trial because he murdered a kid.

The case went to trial because of PC pressure. Up until PC pressure was brought to bear, Zimmerman wasn't even arrested.

One of the prosecution witnesses that hurt their case so much was the investigator who was forced to resign due to PC pressure.

I wouldn't call it PC. The police chief was fired because he mishandled the case. You just don't allow someone who minutes ago murdered a minor. Who does that?

Wut?

 

[Sallow]

I thought you had me on ignore. That went fast.

You, like your boyfriend BikerSailor, think the fact that there was no DNA from Trayvon on the gun means Zimmerman is a liar because he testified that Trayvon grabbed the gun.
Except Zimmerman did not testify Trayvon grabbed the gun. He testified Trayvon grabbed FOR the gun. Not the same thing. That Zimmerman's friend testified differently is not really relevant here. He might have mis heard. He might have misinterpreted. That happens all the time.

So your lack of reading and comprehension skills shows you up for the uncritical dolt you are. And a loser of continental proportions.

I dont know him actually...I make my own statements and only stand by my own statements not his. But nice deflection.

You said that GZ never said he grabbed the gun...I showed that he did say it...TO HIS BEST FRIEND WHO TESTIFIED TO IT.

So move on...you were wrong...it happens.

You were there? You heard the conversation between Zimmerman and his friend?
No, of course not.

Again, which is more reliable: the testimony of the guy who was there or someone who claims he told him something?
The answer is obvious to anyone who isnt trying desperately to save face.

It's been entered into testimony.

As was the fact that Zimmerman lied on national tv about his knowledge of Stand Your Ground.

 

[jon_berzerk]

you are right on everything but the first one, imo....they could very well in deliberations find that he was in fear of severe injury and defended himself thus eliminating M2, but still negligent and guilty of manslaughter.

Its not an all or nothing...thats why there are lesser charges included.

Now if they find that he rightly acted in self defense and was not negligent...then he walks free and clear...one or the other? And he will be found guilty of either M2 (not likely at all...no way they give him M2...I wouldnt) or manslaughter.

they would have to find he did not shoot martin in self defense

and that he didnt do it with a depraved mindset

then it would be manslaughter

if they show depravity

then it is M2

Depraved heart actually applies to an unintentional killing. This was a intentional killing in self defense.

Good article about it, several SCOTUS cases referenced:

Depraved Heart Murder

Proposed jury instructions from the article:

Proposed Jury Instruction: You may find the defendant guilty of second degree murder if you find from the evidence presented to you that the defendant:


1) while engaged in a grossly reckless act;

2) unintentionally;
3) caused the death of another;

4) and in causing the death did so with extreme indifference for the value of human life and the safety of others.

Zimmerman was not being reckless. Nor was his act unintentional. He shot li'l Trayvon in self defense.

Zimmerman was not being reckless. Nor was his act unintentional.

yes omara was driving that point home

when he had the firearms lady on the stand

when he was discussing the force it takes to pull the trigger

of the pistol

that it was intentionally pulled not accidentally pulled

 

[wharfrat]

Explain how self defense excuses negligence leading to the death of a human being.

Because if Zimmerman "wins self defense," that would imply the jury would feel Zimmerman was justified in his actions; that his actions would act as an affirmative defense to what otherwise would constitute murder.

In Florida, second degree murder is defined, in part, as the "unlawful killing of a human being." If the jury buys self defense, then the killing is no longer "unlawful." See: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Culpable negligence wouldn't attach because Zimmerman would then be justified.

Yes, but the lesser included charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, is not murder. Your point about self-defense and 2nd degree murder do not apply to the lesser charge. That would be like saying you can get away with illegal parking if you killed someone a few days later in self defense. The killing and the parking are two different crimes.

Of course my point applies. If the jury feels he is justified, it is an absolute bar. If not, then they will be instructed on intent. And as Sunshine and jon have just alluded, Zimmerman's intent is fairly clear.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Manslaughter.