The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[RKMBrown]

Zimmerman was not being reckless. Nor was his act unintentional. He shot li'l Trayvon in self defense.

If the jury agrees with your opinion, Zimmerman walks.

 

[Redfish]

You did lie or you just didn't know what you were talking about. The blood stain was not on the cuff like you all have been spewing, both arms were checked elbow to cuff. The stain was on the waist part of the sweatshirt and it was a small little tiny spot.

May not mean much but what else have you been spinning here? If you're watching the WP for info instead of looking at all the reports, we now know you are getting less than accurate info. LA Times too.

I told you about the hoodie just as an aside. It was what I heard the DNA guy talk about.

sorry marilyn, the state put on a terrible case based on very sketchey evidence. GZ will be acquited and blacks will riot in the streets of all of our cities and burn their own neighborhoods.

We are living in a sick society when the media decides which cases will go to trial based on racial issues that will generate ratings.

If TM was white of GZ was black this case would never have made the news and the shooter would never have been charged because there is no evidence of a crime.

Oh, no evidence huh? This case went to trial because he murdered a kid.

The evidence says otherwise. I know that you want this trial to be about race, but its not and never was.

I know that you want this to be about punishing whitey for racism, but its not and never was.

there is absolutely no chance of a murder conviction, involuntary manslaughter is a remote possibility, acquital is almost a sure thing.

If both guys were the same color, the state would never have even brought the case to a grand jury.

 

[RKMBrown]

Because if Zimmerman "wins self defense," that would imply the jury would feel Zimmerman was justified in his actions; that his actions would act as an affirmative defense to what otherwise would constitute murder.

In Florida, second degree murder is defined, in part, as the "unlawful killing of a human being." If the jury buys self defense, then the killing is no longer "unlawful." See: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Culpable negligence wouldn't attach because Zimmerman would then be justified.

Yes, but the lesser included charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, is not murder. Your point about self-defense and 2nd degree murder do not apply to the lesser charge. That would be like saying you can get away with illegal parking if you killed someone a few days later in self defense. The killing and the parking are two different crimes.

Of course my point applies. If the jury feels he is justified, it is an absolute bar. If not, then they will be instructed on intent. And as Sunshine and jon have just alluded, Zimmerman's intent is fairly clear.

I would have thought it would be a bar on voluntary manslaughter, but not on involuntary manslaughter. Am I wrong? I'm just trying to get an understanding of how this works. This is my first time reading up on the intricacies of this type of trial. I ask because what I read said the opposite of what you just said. It said intent does not apply. I'm confused...?

 

[25Caliber]

I thought you had me on ignore. That went fast.

You, like your boyfriend BikerSailor, think the fact that there was no DNA from Trayvon on the gun means Zimmerman is a liar because he testified that Trayvon grabbed the gun.
Except Zimmerman did not testify Trayvon grabbed the gun. He testified Trayvon grabbed FOR the gun. Not the same thing. That Zimmerman's friend testified differently is not really relevant here. He might have mis heard. He might have misinterpreted. That happens all the time.

So your lack of reading and comprehension skills shows you up for the uncritical dolt you are. And a loser of continental proportions.

I dont know him actually...I make my own statements and only stand by my own statements not his. But nice deflection.

You said that GZ never said he grabbed the gun...I showed that he did say it...TO HIS BEST FRIEND WHO TESTIFIED TO IT.

So move on...you were wrong...it happens.

You were there? You heard the conversation between Zimmerman and his friend?
No, of course not.



Again, which is more reliable: the testimony of the guy who was there or someone who claims he told him something?
The answer is obvious to anyone who isnt trying desperately to save face.

Are we to believe his best friend testifying under oath or you? How bout the jury who are they to believe? They can believe he gave conflicting statements.

He testified to it...defense didnt challenge it. Conflicting statements...it is what it is.

His best friend testified under oath to what GZ told him...are you saying that his best friend lied about it? Did the defense team deny he said it....has GZ denied he said that to his friend? This best friend and US. Air Marshal got up on the stand and lied to hurt his friend? You have quite the imagination.

 

[testarosa]

Explain how self defense excuses negligence leading to the death of a human being.

Because if Zimmerman "wins self defense," that would imply the jury would feel Zimmerman was justified in his actions; that his actions would act as an affirmative defense to what otherwise would constitute murder.

In Florida, second degree murder is defined, in part, as the "unlawful killing of a human being." If the jury buys self defense, then the killing is no longer "unlawful." See: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Culpable negligence wouldn't attach because Zimmerman would then be justified.

Yes, but the lesser included charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, is not murder. Your point about self-defense and 2nd degree murder do not apply to the lesser charge. That would be like saying you can get away with illegal parking if you killed someone a few days later in self defense. The killing and the parking are two different crimes.

I'm sorry, I am not seeing that anywhere. He's charged with M2, period. No lesser included.

So the state or the defense can include a lesser charge if they if they wish for instruction, but that's not here.

All that's here is an Angela Corey indictment. lol

Affidavit of probable cause for M2

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www/...2/04/12/zimmerman_probable_cause_document.pdf

 

[RKMBrown]

From the florida law web site:

While voluntary manslaughter describes an intentional act performed during a provocation or heat of passion, involuntary manslaughter does not require an intent to kill or even an intent to perform that act resulting in the victim's death.

To establish involuntary manslaughter, the prosecutor must show that the defendant acted with "culpable negligence." Florida statutes define culpable negligence as a disregard for human life while engaging in wanton or reckless behavior. The state may be able to prove involuntary manslaughter by showing the defendant's recklessness or lack of care when handling a dangerous instrument or weapon, or while engaging in a range of other activities that could lead to death if performed recklessly.

- See more at: Florida Involuntary Manslaughter Laws - FindLaw

 

[IrishTexanChick]

OMG! I took allergy meds yesterday that my neighbor gave me.....WHOA! I was about a fruit cake on here last night. Sorry...

 

[The Rabbi]

I dont know him actually...I make my own statements and only stand by my own statements not his. But nice deflection.

You said that GZ never said he grabbed the gun...I showed that he did say it...TO HIS BEST FRIEND WHO TESTIFIED TO IT.

So move on...you were wrong...it happens.

You were there? You heard the conversation between Zimmerman and his friend?
No, of course not.

Again, which is more reliable: the testimony of the guy who was there or someone who claims he told him something?
The answer is obvious to anyone who isnt trying desperately to save face.

He testified to it...defense didnt challenge it. Conflicting statements...it is what it is.

His best friend testified under oath to what GZ told him...are you saying that his best friend lied about it? Did the defense team deny he said it....has GZ denied he said that to his friend? This best friend and US. Air Marshal got up on the stand and lied to hurt his friend? You have quite the imagination.

So if the testimonies do not agree in every detail someone is lying? You're not very bright are you?
His friend made a mistake. His friend mis-heard. It is second hand testimony. Zimmerman's own testimony is clear. And the DNA evidence does not contradict it.
The obvious conclusion to anyone with two functioning brain cells is that his friend mis-heard what Zimmerman told him.

Hey, I thought you had me in ignore. What's with suddenly deciding to salvage whats left of your reputation by puking some more bullshit into this thread?

 

[jon_berzerk]

wish i could hang around

have to step out for awhile

have a Happy and Safe 4th

 

[RKMBrown]

Because if Zimmerman "wins self defense," that would imply the jury would feel Zimmerman was justified in his actions; that his actions would act as an affirmative defense to what otherwise would constitute murder.

In Florida, second degree murder is defined, in part, as the "unlawful killing of a human being." If the jury buys self defense, then the killing is no longer "unlawful." See: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Culpable negligence wouldn't attach because Zimmerman would then be justified.

Yes, but the lesser included charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, is not murder. Your point about self-defense and 2nd degree murder do not apply to the lesser charge. That would be like saying you can get away with illegal parking if you killed someone a few days later in self defense. The killing and the parking are two different crimes.

I'm sorry, I am not seeing that anywhere. He's charged with M2, period. No lesser included.

So the state or the defense can include a lesser charge if they if they wish for instruction, but that's not here.

All that's here is an Angela Corey indictment. lol

Affidavit of probable cause for M2

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www/...2/04/12/zimmerman_probable_cause_document.pdf

The way a lawyer explained it to me... is the lesser charge is understood to be included and will be provided to the jury per instructions from the Judge that will be forthcoming, this unless the Prosecution asks her not to.

 

[wharfrat]

Yes, but the lesser included charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, is not murder. Your point about self-defense and 2nd degree murder do not apply to the lesser charge. That would be like saying you can get away with illegal parking if you killed someone a few days later in self defense. The killing and the parking are two different crimes.

Of course my point applies. If the jury feels he is justified, it is an absolute bar. If not, then they will be instructed on intent. And as Sunshine and jon have just alluded, Zimmerman's intent is fairly clear.

I would have thought it would be a bar on voluntary manslaughter, but not on involuntary manslaughter. Am I wrong? I'm just trying to get an understanding of how this works. This is my first time reading up on the intricacies of this type of trial. I ask because what I read said the opposite of what you just said. It said intent does not apply. I'm confused...?

You are close, but confusing elements of the two types of crime we are discussing. Murder requires intent; manslaughter does not. And intent is not an issue in this case, as Zimmerman intended to kill Martin. Zimmerman's argument essentially admits that his intent is consistent with the statutory requirements for murder 2.

 

[Gadawg73]

Martin was not trespassing on private property as he was an invitee by his father.
Zimmerman never stalked Martin.

Zimmerman first told the 911 guy that he would meet the police at the mailboxes then changed his mind and said have them call me and I will tell them where I am.

To me, that says he intended to follow Treyvon. He took two flashlights and a loaded gun.

He stalked him alright.

He is not charged with stalking.
Stalking is a crime in Florida.
Try again, something, ANYTHING that is credible and relevant to this trial.
I do give you credit for coming back but please bring something to the table.

 

[RKMBrown]

OMG! I took allergy meds yesterday that my neighbor gave me.....WHOA! I was about a fruit cake on here last night. Sorry...

NP and thanks for the photos..



...

jk

 

[testarosa]

From the florida law web site:

While voluntary manslaughter describes an intentional act performed during a provocation or heat of passion, involuntary manslaughter does not require an intent to kill or even an intent to perform that act resulting in the victim's death.

To establish involuntary manslaughter, the prosecutor must show that the defendant acted with "culpable negligence." Florida statutes define culpable negligence as a disregard for human life while engaging in wanton or reckless behavior. The state may be able to prove involuntary manslaughter by showing the defendant's recklessness or lack of care when handling a dangerous instrument or weapon, or while engaging in a range of other activities that could lead to death if performed recklessly.

- See more at: Florida Involuntary Manslaughter Laws - FindLaw

But he's not charged with this.

They can bring it later.

State Mistake #1 - the gigantic burden of proving M2

 

[Missourian]

Pics or this post is useless.

If you would have asked me last year, I probably would have. But...I don't look so slick any more in a nighty with one breast gone. I'm all lopsided.

aren't we all in one way or another? (Sorry to hear this though). Best friends wife kicked breast cancers ass last year and now dammit she goes in for a biopsy next week because they found two spots on her liver. I hate that fucking disease.

Because if Zimmerman "wins self defense," that would imply the jury would feel Zimmerman was justified in his actions; that his actions would act as an affirmative defense to what otherwise would constitute murder.

In Florida, second degree murder is defined, in part, as the "unlawful killing of a human being." If the jury buys self defense, then the killing is no longer "unlawful." See: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Culpable negligence wouldn't attach because Zimmerman would then be justified.

Yes, but the lesser included charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, is not murder. Your point about self-defense and 2nd degree murder do not apply to the lesser charge. That would be like saying you can get away with illegal parking if you killed someone a few days later in self defense. The killing and the parking are two different crimes.

I'm sorry, I am not seeing that anywhere. He's charged with M2, period. No lesser included.

So the state or the defense can include a lesser charge if they if they wish for instruction, but that's not here.

All that's here is an Angela Corey indictment. lol

Affidavit of probable cause for M2

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www/...2/04/12/zimmerman_probable_cause_document.pdf

@CrazedScotsman started a thread on that.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-and-justice-system/301161-question-about-prosecution.html

He asked about something he saw on the tube.

He said that he heard one of the talking heads say that the Prosecutor can ask for lesser included charges, but the defense has to agree or it's a no-go.

True?

 

[25Caliber]

You were there? You heard the conversation between Zimmerman and his friend?
No, of course not.

Again, which is more reliable: the testimony of the guy who was there or someone who claims he told him something?
The answer is obvious to anyone who isnt trying desperately to save face.

He testified to it...defense didnt challenge it. Conflicting statements...it is what it is.

His best friend testified under oath to what GZ told him...are you saying that his best friend lied about it? Did the defense team deny he said it....has GZ denied he said that to his friend? This best friend and US. Air Marshal got up on the stand and lied to hurt his friend? You have quite the imagination.

So if the testimonies do not agree in every detail someone is lying? You're not very bright are you?
His friend made a mistake. His friend mis-heard. It is second hand testimony. Zimmerman's own testimony is clear. And the DNA evidence does not contradict it.
The obvious conclusion to anyone with two functioning brain cells is that his friend mis-heard what Zimmerman told him.

Hey, I thought you had me in ignore. What's with suddenly deciding to salvage whats left of your reputation by puking some more bullshit into this thread?

Nevermind...you are a hopeless hack. You like to argue and scream and curse. You are not interested in honest discussion...carry on.

 

[IrishTexanChick]

OMG! I took allergy meds yesterday that my neighbor gave me.....WHOA! I was about a fruit cake on here last night. Sorry...

NP and thanks for the photos..



...

jk

lmfao....I had to think......
very funny

 

[testarosa]

Yes, but the lesser included charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, is not murder. Your point about self-defense and 2nd degree murder do not apply to the lesser charge. That would be like saying you can get away with illegal parking if you killed someone a few days later in self defense. The killing and the parking are two different crimes.

I'm sorry, I am not seeing that anywhere. He's charged with M2, period. No lesser included.

So the state or the defense can include a lesser charge if they if they wish for instruction, but that's not here.

All that's here is an Angela Corey indictment. lol

Affidavit of probable cause for M2

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www/...2/04/12/zimmerman_probable_cause_document.pdf

The way a lawyer explained it to me... is the lesser charge is understood to be included and will be provided to the jury per instructions from the Judge that will be forthcoming, this unless the Prosecution asks her not to.

No.

He's not charged with this. He's charged with M2.

The state or the defense can ask for lesser charges to be included/instructed.

They haven't done that. The state is full on blast stupidly trying to prove M2.

 

[RKMBrown]

Of course my point applies. If the jury feels he is justified, it is an absolute bar. If not, then they will be instructed on intent. And as Sunshine and jon have just alluded, Zimmerman's intent is fairly clear.

I would have thought it would be a bar on voluntary manslaughter, but not on involuntary manslaughter. Am I wrong? I'm just trying to get an understanding of how this works. This is my first time reading up on the intricacies of this type of trial. I ask because what I read said the opposite of what you just said. It said intent does not apply. I'm confused...?

You are close, but confusing elements of the two types of crime we are discussing. Murder requires intent; manslaughter does not. And intent is not an issue in this case, as Zimmerman intended to kill Martin. Zimmerman's argument essentially admits that his intent is consistent with the statutory requirements for murder 2.

Yeah I have no doubt that if the jury rules him not guilty of murder two that he's also not guilty of voluntary manslaughter. My question is to the lesser included charge of involuntary manslaughter due to negligence. IOW does self-defense excuse negligence in a homicide.

 

[testarosa]

OMG! I took allergy meds yesterday that my neighbor gave me.....WHOA! I was about a fruit cake on here last night. Sorry...

NP and thanks for the photos..



...

jk

lmfao....I had to think......
very funny

I was just thinking you were having a Fryday and gave you a Fryday pass ;-)