The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[25Caliber]

Wrong. It is not obvious; and there is no evidence that it is even likely.

We don't know that TM ever saw the gun, either.

If you believe GZs words, then you have to believe that the gun was exposed after they were on the ground. GZ said so... and that they were both going for it. If he were here to defend himself, that would be his reasoning to continue the punching. If you were defending him...wouldnt that be your approach?

Its obvious that Trayvon was provoked, imo, because he was followed in the dark and rain first in a truck and then on foot. Trayvon didnt follow him...he followed trayvon.

I would love to discuss this with you IM, because I think you have the smarts to hold a decent conversation even if we disagree...unfortunately, its almost impossible to do so in between the other Bs of a certain few with a lot of hate for some reason.

GZ did not say nor did he imply that the gun was exposed.

He did say it was exposed when they were struggling on the ground...he says that Trayvon saw it and said "youre gonna die tonight" and then slid his hand down his side in the directon of it.

I know some are saying that I am saying that the gun was exposed before that like when he got hit...I have never ever said that...thats why I hate it when the certain few say it because it gives the impression that I did thus confusing the conversation.

Like I said...hard to have a conversation and at the same time defend yourself against things you didnt say.

 

[Snookie]

The defense doesn't really have the burden to do much beyond insert reasonable doubt into the jury's minds. The prosecution must prove the charges it has brought against the defendant.

It's easy to get away with murder in florida.

that's rases.

 

[25Caliber]

And if Rachel Jenteal REALLY thought he was "a couple houses away" then why did she testify that she wasn't worried about Trayvon getting in a fight because he was close enough that his Dad would come help him?

Jeantels testimony does not put him back in the safety of his condo. I have stated before that jeantel contradicts her own statement by saying she heard things in the background and then in her next sentence says she doesnt think he was home but a couple of doors down...or that she thought he was near his home...near does not mean IN.

So what were these voices in the background? People standing outside in the rain talking a couple of doors down.

I believe that Rachel is trying to deflect her not taking the "fight" serious enough that eventually killed her friend. She passed the buck to a father and noises in the background.

She says father because she knew that Tray was close to home, which I agree, compared to being all the way back at the store...he was! I think he was a building down. Officer

So Jenteal tried to mitigate the damage to the Defense's case by saying that she meant that he was close by not that he was at the condo. But here's the problem, 25! If Martin is even half way home...sixty yards away from the condo...that puts him sixty yards away from George Zimmerman's path as he returns to his SUV...which means the only way a confrontation takes place is if Martin MAKES it happen by walking back to brace Zimmerman.

That means the notion that Zimmerman "stalked" Martin goes right out the window. This wasn't a case of a over zealous vigilante stalking a defenseless teen...it was the teen deciding that he WANTED a confrontation with the man from the SUV.

That I agree with...60 yards is about how I see it...or a whole building away. My opinion about why he came back comes from what I think he would say if he were alive. I believe that Trayvon would defend his coming back by saying that he wanted to see if this strange man was still following on foot...when he saw that he was...he said something.

Isnt that what you would say if you were in the same situation and you had come back? Its what i would say.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

It's easy to get away with murder in florida.

that's rases.

Onry if you are Dr Shipping.

 

[Sarah G]

Well, which is it? Obviously the pros has the burden to prove M2. But...

As to self-defense, does the defense have the burden to prove that? Or does the prosecution have the burden to disprove it?

If self-defense is an affirmative defense, similar to a not guilty by reason of insanity plea, isn't the burden somewhat shifted onto the defense to prove that affirmative justification? Am I wrong on that?

Sorry if I'm opening up a sore subject. If so then....never mind. LOL

The defense doesn't really have the burden to do much beyond insert reasonable doubt into the jury's minds. The prosecution must prove the charges it has brought against the defendant.

It's easy to get away with murder in florida.

They do have to introduce some evidence for self defense otherwise, the defense should just go home. We'll let them know how it works out.

 

[TheSeventhTiger]

and anyone find it a bit peculiar that "The One" sure has been remaining quiet all thru this case? unlike he was during the Cambridge Police debacle. so who is acting stupidly now? the white Hispanic?

 

[ScienceRocks]

This case is a joke. A misjustice that shows just how racist the black community really is....

Not just racist but down right dumb. Dumb as they never focus on the real violence that lives on their own damn streets.

 

[JimBowie1958]

This case is a joke. A misjustice that shows just how racist the black community really is....

Not just racist but down right dumb. Dumb as they never focus on the real violence that lives on their own damn streets.

It isn't stupidity so much as it is that the leadership of the black community has sold out to the Democratic Party and they will toe the line no matter what and play the race card to get some pay off that the Dems will back up for patronages sake.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Do you mean Dr. Rao...the most inept and discreditable witness in the history of this trial?..the one who changes his opinion by the hour?

Bao. Whether he should be discredited or should be believed, he adds to the reasonable doubt which is key for Zimmerman's case.

"You can't have my notes!"

 

[Oldstyle]

Jeantels testimony does not put him back in the safety of his condo. I have stated before that jeantel contradicts her own statement by saying she heard things in the background and then in her next sentence says she doesnt think he was home but a couple of doors down...or that she thought he was near his home...near does not mean IN.

So what were these voices in the background? People standing outside in the rain talking a couple of doors down.

I believe that Rachel is trying to deflect her not taking the "fight" serious enough that eventually killed her friend. She passed the buck to a father and noises in the background.

She says father because she knew that Tray was close to home, which I agree, compared to being all the way back at the store...he was! I think he was a building down. Officer

So Jenteal tried to mitigate the damage to the Defense's case by saying that she meant that he was close by not that he was at the condo. But here's the problem, 25! If Martin is even half way home...sixty yards away from the condo...that puts him sixty yards away from George Zimmerman's path as he returns to his SUV...which means the only way a confrontation takes place is if Martin MAKES it happen by walking back to brace Zimmerman.

That means the notion that Zimmerman "stalked" Martin goes right out the window. This wasn't a case of a over zealous vigilante stalking a defenseless teen...it was the teen deciding that he WANTED a confrontation with the man from the SUV.

That I agree with...60 yards is about how I see it...or a whole building away. My opinion about why he came back comes from what I think he would say if he were alive. I believe that Trayvon would defend his coming back by saying that he wanted to see if this strange man was still following on foot...when he saw that he was...he said something.

Isnt that what you would say if you were in the same situation and you had come back? Its what i would say.

If I were being followed at night by a stranger and I managed to put space between myself and that person the LAST thing I would do would be to lessen that space. Any rational person who was really in fear for their safety would have simply gone inside the condo. Then the only question is whether or not to call the Police and report the "creepy assed Cracker".

What Trayvon Martin DID that night makes absolutely no sense at all UNLESS he made the decision to confront someone. That's the only way it happens. If that is the case then why isn't the fight and the ensuing fatal gunshot, Trayvon Martin's responsibility?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's up a jury.

No. It's not. It is a matter of law. The judge will TELL the jury as much. The jury will NEVER ever be told that the injuries on Zimmerman needed to BE life threatening. Such an instruction would be erroneous, in fact.

What the defense has to do is demonstrate enough evidence to show the jury that a defendant reasonably felt that his life was in danger or that he was facing the risk of serious physical injury.

And..by the evidence..it seems that:

A. Zimmerman instigated the fight.
B. He was not in danger at any time. None of his injuries were life threatening. The fight itself was very short. And the police arrived 15 seconds after Martin was killed.

A) What evidence indicates that Zimmerman instigated the fight?
B) Why do think people have to be almost dead before they can defend themselves?

 

[Oldstyle]

Which brings us back to the question of why George Zimmerman's "history" can be brought into court to prove state of mind but Trayvon Martin's can't...

 

[testarosa]

I've been scrolling past his stupid walls of text or days. Welcome to the club which is growing by leaps and bounds. All we have to do to get rid of him is to ignore him off the forum.

25 claimed Zimmerman went for his gun and provoked martin, then he claimed Zimmerman fumbling in his pockets exposed the gun and provoked Martin and now he is claiming he never said either. And since one can not go back more then 24 hours to change their posts his claims are all in this thread for all to see.

I believe his speculation is not only wrong but pure fabrication.

did the state mention any of that before it rested

No and they are done now. The Real Defense part started.

 

[Snookie]

Coincidental irony.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Do you also know that things like hands are movable objects that can defy gravity? The fingers can also reach around behind objects like GZ's head to get a firmer grasp while the thumbs are placed somewhere near the face to facilitate a more secure "hold." Meanwhile, a struggle is ensuing which means GZ was probably turning his head from side to side to avoid blows from at least one of Martin's fists or open hands. You failed the physics test, sir!

Is it normal, for you, to hold an object that you intend to hit against something in such a way that your hand is between the object and the impact area? If so, can I please watch the next time you pick up a hammer to pound a nail?

In a fit of desperation anything is possible but, as I said before, Blood from Zimmerman's wounds would likely have been spattered or smeared to the point of being in contact with Martin's hands had he grabbed Z's head and "repeatedly" pounded it into the ground as alleged! It's not rocket science but the physical probabilities seem to have flown over your head by a mile!

Does this mean you will not be giving me the opportunity to watch you pound nails by holding a heavy rock and using your hands to strike the nail.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And your spin is ridiculous in light of the evidence. The victim WAS engaged in criminal behavior (pummeling the defendant) at the time that GZ allegedly found it necessary to defend himself.

Since when did neutralizing a stalking, armed menace become a criminal act? Martin was defending HIMSELF but lost the battle to do so when Z shot him. undoubtedly, Z was acting irrationally or Martin would never have responded at all and there would have been no confrontation. If YOU were Martin what would you have done if a strange person rapidly walked up to you and chased you , probably with a gun in his hand. Granted, Z probably never had the intent to shoot Martin initially and the gun was likely supposed to be for intimidation. At some point M and Z got close enough that a confrontation ensued. We can't take Z's word for anything that happened so we don't know when he pulled the gun or whether he had it out the whole time.We don't know what happened except what the physical evidence shows and the testimony of one person reflects.. And the possibility that evidence and witness testimony
might be flawed or tainted is fairly high.

You still haven't explained how the broken nose you claim Zimmerman had fits into your theory that Zimmerman had his gun out and shot MArtin before he could do anything.

 

[SantaFeWay]

Getting pumped for the continuation of the defense presentation tomorrow!

Does anyone know who the have to rebut the ME? Not that that will take much effort. But pundits said it was a noteworthy ME. Michael Baden? Who did they get?

OK...I'm lazy. Going to check their witness list.......

 

[testarosa]

More importantly...even if he was "a couple houses away"...then why did he decide to walk BACK to the T and intercept George Zimmerman as he was walking back to his SUV? It's pitch dark back there behind those condos. People needed flashlights to see which means Martin is not going to be visible to Zimmerman unless HE chooses to confront him by walking back to the T and bracing Zimmerman with his "You got a problem?".

Ahh but Z would have been visible to someone else. He had the key flashlight. Evidence marker 1 at the T far from the body indicating Z was indeed heading back to his vehicle. Incidentally, the state skipped right over introducing that piece of evidence to the jury.

 

[SantaFeWay]

Nope. Can't find who it is. Just heard it was someone the public would recognize. I can think of a few. Guess we'll just have to wait.

 

[PixieStix]

Only one person who responded with criminal violence. He's the one who got back up after killing a kid and he only required a bandaid for his "injuries".

What would you do if someone had broke your nose and then proceeded to beat your head against concrete?