The Ottoman Empire and Islam

[eagle1462010]

True Islam - History Hadith 1

Seems to me that the fundamental Civil War Problems in the region are those that agree with Hadith........or Sunni.......and those that believe the Hadith is the worship of a false god..............Shiite...........

One side thinks that No one is to rewrite the Quran......and others believe the Hadith is interpretation of the Quran versus..........Which is a major problem in the region and even in the ottoman empire........

Need Irosie to clear it up.........but tends to be more radical in those going by the Quran than the other.

Turkey presents Prophet's sayings for the 21st Century

Seems Present day Turkey is writing more modern Hadiths for life in the 21st century now.............

Is this the reason for even more tension in the region of those opposing beliefs...........

Perhaps Irosie or someone else can better understand it.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[yragnitup]

It was narrated from ‘Awf bin Malik that the Messenger of Allah(ﷺ) said:

“The Jews split into seventy-one sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy in Hell. The Christians split into seventy-two sects, seventy-one of which will be in Hell and one in Paradise. I swear by the One Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, my nation will split into seventy-three sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy-two in Hell.” It was said: “O Messenger of Allah, who are they?” He said: “The main body.”

 

[irosie91]

it sucketh on the level of MEDIEVAL and never improved

 

[Meathead]

In the link above:

The Millet System
While analyzing the Ottoman Empire’s Islamic character, one must keep in mind that much of the empire’s population was not Muslim. Large communities of Orthodox Christians, Jews, and Catholics all lived in the empire. At some times, Muslims even formed a minority of the empire’s population. At no time in the empire’s history were non-Muslims forced to abide by any Muslim laws. Instead, a system of religious pluralism, known as the millet system, was implemented. In the millet system, each religious group was organized into a millet, or nation.
Each millet was allowed to run by its own rules, elect its own leaders, and enforce their own laws on their people. For example, after the conquest of Constantinople in 1453, Sultan Mehmed II had the Orthodox Christian community of the city elect a new patriarch, who served as their leader. By not enforcing Islamic laws on non-Muslims, the Ottoman Empire ensured social and religious stability and harmony within its borders for much of its history. Contrary to this, throughout the rest of Christian Europe, religious freedom only began to take root in the 1700s and 1800s. Denial of rights and persecution of non-Christians continued, however, as is seen in the Holocaust of the 1940s and the ethnic cleansing of Muslim Bosnians in the 1990s.

So....is the "more modern" islam a warped version of what its original intent was and did the downfall of the Ottomans cause it..kinda like the fall of what happened in the ME caused the rise of radical extremists we are fighting today?

Don't have time at the moment to go into details, but the claim it was ever 'more tolerant' and 'secular' is a load of complete rubbish. The were 'tolerant' to a few survivors of their butchery, as long as they brought in money and provided a source of slaves, period.

Did I claim that? Really? Show me where. I said I THOUGHT..or IT SEEMED TO ME...or MAYBE...and asked what others thought. So take your rubbish and shove it up yer ass.

I didn't say you said anything, but now that you've opted to be outed as a knee jerk reactionary moron, don't worry about it, history is just not your thing. Start a knitting circle or something.

based on PUBLLISHED crap------Gracie makes a VERY LOGICAL REMARK. All
sorts of REVISIONIST history makes the claim of "TOLERANT ISLAM" --controlling
cities in which all people----Christians, Jews, Hindus, Zoroastrians ----are DELERIOUS
with happiness. This sort of crap shows up even in public school textbooks. She
is REASONABLY impressed by it just as YOU are impressed with the idiotic------
THE JEWS WERE ALLIED WITH DA MUSLIMS. My great great grandfather died as a soldier in the army of EMPEROR FRANZ JOSEF------(am emperor of the "holy" roman empire)----------well---actually---in the filth of both canon law and shariah law---jews
are precluded from carrying weapons
second reich)---------none of my ancestry fought in muslim armies
people------christians

A pedantic point, but Franz Josef was a Hapsburg of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, not the Holy Roman Empire (which was neither holy nor Roman) that had long ceased to exist.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

What 'changed' re Islam was Peter the Great's modernization of Russia, and its entry on to the 'world stage', so to speak, in tandem with it's defeat at the gates of Vienna, Martin Luther's coup, and the Venetians and Catholics no longer able to support its rape of Byzantium. Most people don't know Venice and many of the Papal hierarchy supported Islam's wars against the Byzantines, the 'Crusader' states, and against Greek Orthodox kingdoms and fiefs in general. Catholic priests manned and directed the bombards used to breach the wall s of Constantinople.

Many Jews were always allies as well when it was an opportunity to massacre Christians, something the Orthodox never missed a chance to do. Some of Rosie's friends still want to help out Islam and its mass murders of 'Christians'.

<B>Israeli Settler Rabbi Praises Islamic Takeover Of Europe</B>

Islamization of Europe a good thing

Don't buy the idiotic crap that their hatred is because of 'Da Crusades' and 'Da Inquisition n stuff'; that's a load of pure BS. This genocidal wish goes all the way back to Jesus, before Islam, before Catholics. Ignore the guilt trip rubbish. Many were 'discriminated against' in the West because they allied with Islam against Christian countries whenever possible and couldn't be trusted in any war between Christians and Islamist butchers, and isolated themselves, not the other way around, when living in Christian countries.

Under Islamist rulers, they enjoyed their privileged positions by harassing and abusing Christians, so they can't whine about that in the West, either.

Maimonides: Islam Good, Christianity Bad, Muslims Bad, Christians Good

Anti-Semitism Always Leaves a Yellow Stain

The guillotine-fodder aristocratic snakes you anti-semites serve twisted the moral of the crucifixion story so that Jews got blamed instead of the eternal allies of every illegitimate ruling class, the religious hierarchy. With absolute mind control, the HeirHead scum created the popularity of persecuting Jews. This rabbi, a flunkie of the plutocracy himself, would never blame the secular ruling class, so he blames Christianity instead.

l your racist idiot friends peddle that fake snivel Most Christians were I pointed out how your Orthodox Jews made themselves so unpopular in the West and went out of their way to do so for centuries.
you're all unhinged already so you have nothing to lose.

Sheep Goosestepping Behind Chickenhawks to Butcher Scapegoats

You are sure of your opinion only because of your Daddy's money. Anti-semitism is not a reaction to anything the Jews ever did; it is purely cowardice by those who worship the plutocracy and the slime that oozed out of the cracks of the plutocrats' trophy wives.

You have everything to lose once people wise up to you. We must be aware, or we will be nowhere.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

In the link above:

The Millet System
While analyzing the Ottoman Empire’s Islamic character, one must keep in mind that much of the empire’s population was not Muslim. Large communities of Orthodox Christians, Jews, and Catholics all lived in the empire. At some times, Muslims even formed a minority of the empire’s population. At no time in the empire’s history were non-Muslims forced to abide by any Muslim laws. Instead, a system of religious pluralism, known as the millet system, was implemented. In the millet system, each religious group was organized into a millet, or nation.
Each millet was allowed to run by its own rules, elect its own leaders, and enforce their own laws on their people. For example, after the conquest of Constantinople in 1453, Sultan Mehmed II had the Orthodox Christian community of the city elect a new patriarch, who served as their leader. By not enforcing Islamic laws on non-Muslims, the Ottoman Empire ensured social and religious stability and harmony within its borders for much of its history. Contrary to this, throughout the rest of Christian Europe, religious freedom only began to take root in the 1700s and 1800s. Denial of rights and persecution of non-Christians continued, however, as is seen in the Holocaust of the 1940s and the ethnic cleansing of Muslim Bosnians in the 1990s.

So....is the "more modern" islam a warped version of what its original intent was and did the downfall of the Ottomans cause it..kinda like the fall of what happened in the ME caused the rise of radical extremists we are fighting today?

Don't have time at the moment to go into details, but the claim it was ever 'more tolerant' and 'secular' is a load of complete rubbish. The were 'tolerant' to a few survivors of their butchery, as long as they brought in money and provided a source of slaves, period.

Did I claim that? Really? Show me where. I said I THOUGHT..or IT SEEMED TO ME...or MAYBE...and asked what others thought. So take your rubbish and shove it up yer ass.

I didn't say you said anything, but now that you've opted to be outed as a knee jerk reactionary moron, don't worry about it, history is just not your thing. Start a knitting circle or something.

based on PUBLLISHED crap------Gracie makes a VERY LOGICAL REMARK. All
sorts of REVISIONIST history makes the claim of "TOLERANT ISLAM" --controlling
cities in which all people----Christians, Jews, Hindus, Zoroastrians ----are DELERIOUS
with happiness. This sort of crap shows up even in public school textbooks. She
is REASONABLY impressed by it just as YOU are impressed with the idiotic------
THE JEWS WERE ALLIED WITH DA MUSLIMS. My great great grandfather died as a soldier in the army of EMPEROR FRANZ JOSEF------(am emperor of the "holy" roman empire)----------well---actually---in the filth of both canon law and shariah law---jews
are precluded from carrying weapons
second reich)---------none of my ancestry fought in muslim armies
people------christians

A pedantic point, but Franz Josef was a Hapsburg of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, not the Holy Roman Empire (which was neither holy nor Roman) that had long ceased to exist.

The Divine Right of Kings and All Other Entitled Trash

The chickenhawk HeirHead scumbag who deserted Vienna in 1683, with all his troops, was the Holy Roman Emperor, Leopold I. Democracy better outlaw all hereditary privileges, or the jihadi subhumans will win this time.

 

[irosie91]

In the link above:

The Millet System
While analyzing the Ottoman Empire’s Islamic character, one must keep in mind that much of the empire’s population was not Muslim. Large communities of Orthodox Christians, Jews, and Catholics all lived in the empire. At some times, Muslims even formed a minority of the empire’s population. At no time in the empire’s history were non-Muslims forced to abide by any Muslim laws. Instead, a system of religious pluralism, known as the millet system, was implemented. In the millet system, each religious group was organized into a millet, or nation.
Each millet was allowed to run by its own rules, elect its own leaders, and enforce their own laws on their people. For example, after the conquest of Constantinople in 1453, Sultan Mehmed II had the Orthodox Christian community of the city elect a new patriarch, who served as their leader. By not enforcing Islamic laws on non-Muslims, the Ottoman Empire ensured social and religious stability and harmony within its borders for much of its history. Contrary to this, throughout the rest of Christian Europe, religious freedom only began to take root in the 1700s and 1800s. Denial of rights and persecution of non-Christians continued, however, as is seen in the Holocaust of the 1940s and the ethnic cleansing of Muslim Bosnians in the 1990s.

So....is the "more modern" islam a warped version of what its original intent was and did the downfall of the Ottomans cause it..kinda like the fall of what happened in the ME caused the rise of radical extremists we are fighting today?

Don't have time at the moment to go into details, but the claim it was ever 'more tolerant' and 'secular' is a load of complete rubbish. The were 'tolerant' to a few survivors of their butchery, as long as they brought in money and provided a source of slaves, period.

Did I claim that? Really? Show me where. I said I THOUGHT..or IT SEEMED TO ME...or MAYBE...and asked what others thought. So take your rubbish and shove it up yer ass.

I didn't say you said anything, but now that you've opted to be outed as a knee jerk reactionary moron, don't worry about it, history is just not your thing. Start a knitting circle or something.

based on PUBLLISHED crap------Gracie makes a VERY LOGICAL REMARK. All
sorts of REVISIONIST history makes the claim of "TOLERANT ISLAM" --controlling
cities in which all people----Christians, Jews, Hindus, Zoroastrians ----are DELERIOUS
with happiness. This sort of crap shows up even in public school textbooks. She
is REASONABLY impressed by it just as YOU are impressed with the idiotic------
THE JEWS WERE ALLIED WITH DA MUSLIMS. My great great grandfather died as a soldier in the army of EMPEROR FRANZ JOSEF------(am emperor of the "holy" roman empire)----------well---actually---in the filth of both canon law and shariah law---jews
are precluded from carrying weapons
second reich)---------none of my ancestry fought in muslim armies
people------christians

A pedantic point, but Franz Josef was a Hapsburg of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, not the Holy Roman Empire (which was neither holy nor Roman) that had long ceased to exist.

six of one and half dozen of the other----FRANZ JOSEF was crowned EMPEROR OF
THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE-----like it or not

 

[Meathead]

Don't have time at the moment to go into details, but the claim it was ever 'more tolerant' and 'secular' is a load of complete rubbish. The were 'tolerant' to a few survivors of their butchery, as long as they brought in money and provided a source of slaves, period.

Did I claim that? Really? Show me where. I said I THOUGHT..or IT SEEMED TO ME...or MAYBE...and asked what others thought. So take your rubbish and shove it up yer ass.

I didn't say you said anything, but now that you've opted to be outed as a knee jerk reactionary moron, don't worry about it, history is just not your thing. Start a knitting circle or something.

based on PUBLLISHED crap------Gracie makes a VERY LOGICAL REMARK. All
sorts of REVISIONIST history makes the claim of "TOLERANT ISLAM" --controlling
cities in which all people----Christians, Jews, Hindus, Zoroastrians ----are DELERIOUS
with happiness. This sort of crap shows up even in public school textbooks. She
is REASONABLY impressed by it just as YOU are impressed with the idiotic------
THE JEWS WERE ALLIED WITH DA MUSLIMS. My great great grandfather died as a soldier in the army of EMPEROR FRANZ JOSEF------(am emperor of the "holy" roman empire)----------well---actually---in the filth of both canon law and shariah law---jews
are precluded from carrying weapons
second reich)---------none of my ancestry fought in muslim armies
people------christians

A pedantic point, but Franz Josef was a Hapsburg of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, not the Holy Roman Empire (which was neither holy nor Roman) that had long ceased to exist.

six of one and half dozen of the other----FRANZ JOSEF was crowned EMPEROR OF
THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE-----like it or not

Tell me about the papal bulls and edicts of his time. Knock yourself out:

Franz Joseph I, by the Grace of God Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary, Bohemia, King of Lombardy and Venice, of Dalmatia, Croatia, Slavonia, Galicia, Lodomeria and Illyria; King of Jerusalemetc., Archduke of Austria; Grand Duke of Tuscany and Cracow, Duke of Lorraine, of Salzburg, Styria, Carinthia, Carniola and of the Bukovina; Grand Prince of Transylvania; Margrave of Moravia; Duke of Upper and Lower Silesia, of Modena, Parma, Piacenza and Guastalla, of Auschwitz, Zator and Teschen, Friuli, Ragusa (Dubrovnik) and Zara (Zadar); Princely Count of Habsburg and Tyrol, of Kyburg, Gorizia and Gradisca; Prince of Trent (Trento) and Brixen; Margrave of Upper and Lower Lusatia and in Istria; Count of Hohenems, Feldkirch, Bregenz, Sonnenberg, etc.; Lord of Trieste, of Cattaro (Kotor), and over the Windic march; president of The German Confederation.[6]

 

[Picaro]

What 'changed' re Islam was Peter the Great's modernization of Russia, and its entry on to the 'world stage', so to speak, in tandem with it's defeat at the gates of Vienna, Martin Luther's coup, and the Venetians and Catholics no longer able to support its rape of Byzantium. Most people don't know Venice and many of the Papal hierarchy supported Islam's wars against the Byzantines, the 'Crusader' states, and against Greek Orthodox kingdoms and fiefs in general. Catholic priests manned and directed the bombards used to breach the wall s of Constantinople.

Many Jews were always allies as well when it was an opportunity to massacre Christians, something the Orthodox never missed a chance to do. Some of Rosie's friends still want to help out Islam and its mass murders of 'Christians'.

<B>Israeli Settler Rabbi Praises Islamic Takeover Of Europe</B>

Islamization of Europe a good thing

Don't buy the idiotic crap that their hatred is because of 'Da Crusades' and 'Da Inquisition n stuff'; that's a load of pure BS. This genocidal wish goes all the way back to Jesus, before Islam, before Catholics. Ignore the guilt trip rubbish. Many were 'discriminated against' in the West because they allied with Islam against Christian countries whenever possible and couldn't be trusted in any war between Christians and Islamist butchers, and isolated themselves, not the other way around, when living in Christian countries.

Under Islamist rulers, they enjoyed their privileged positions by harassing and abusing Christians, so they can't whine about that in the West, either.

Maimonides: Islam Good, Christianity Bad, Muslims Bad, Christians Good

Anti-Semitism Always Leaves a Yellow Stain

The guillotine-fodder aristocratic snakes you anti-semites serve twisted the moral of the crucifixion story so that Jews got blamed instead of the eternal allies of every illegitimate ruling class, the religious hierarchy. With absolute mind control, the HeirHead scum created the popularity of persecuting Jews. This rabbi, a flunkie of the plutocracy himself, would never blame the secular ruling class, so he blames Christianity instead.

l your racist idiot friends peddle that fake snivel Most Christians were I pointed out how your Orthodox Jews made themselves so unpopular in the West and went out of their way to do so for centuries.
you're all unhinged already so you have nothing to lose.

Sheep Goosestepping Behind Chickenhawks to Butcher Scapegoats

You are sure of your opinion only because of your Daddy's money. Anti-semitism is not a reaction to anything the Jews ever did; it is purely cowardice by those who worship the plutocracy and the slime that oozed out of the cracks of the plutocrats' trophy wives.

You have everything to lose once people wise up to you. We must be aware, or we will be nowhere.

Nobody has any idea what the fuck you're raving about. Is Rosie schizoid and posting under many names here?

If anybody doubts what I've said, they can look it up themselves. they are going to be lying if they come here and claim anything I've said was a lie, and it's 'anti-semitic'; for one, you would calling a lot of Jewish Rabbis and historians liars and antisemites, as well as the majority of Professors in Israel itself. Good luck with peddling your idiotic snivels.

 

[irosie91]

defensive , MUCH

 

[eagle1462010]

First World War.com - Primary Documents - Bryce Report into the Armenian Massacre, October 1915

As I have said, the procedure was exceedingly systematic. The whole Armenian population of each town or village was cleared out, by a house-to-house search. Every inmate was driven into the street. Some of the men were thrown into prison, where they were put to death, sometimes with torture; the rest of the men, with the women and children, were marched out of the town. When they had got some little distance they were separated, the men being taken to some place among the hills, where the soldiers, or the Kurdish tribes who were called in to help in the work of slaughter, dispatched them by shooting or bayoneting.

The women and children and old men were sent off under convoy of the lowest kinds of soldiers - many of them just drawn from gaols - to their distant destination, which was sometimes one of the unhealthy districts in the centre of Asia Minor, but more frequently the large desert in the province of Der el Zor, which lies east of Aleppo, in the direction of the Euphrates. They were driven along by the soldiers day after day, all on foot, beaten or left behind to perish if they could not keep up with the caravan; many fell by the way, and many died of hunger.

No provisions were given them by the Turkish Government, and they had already been robbed of everything they possessed. Not a few of the women were stripped naked and made to travel in that condition beneath a burning sun. Some of the mothers went mad and threw away their children, being unable to carry them further.

The caravan route was marked by a line of corpses, and comparatively few seem to have arrived at the destinations which had been prescribed for them - chosen, no doubt, because return was impossible and because there was little prospect that any would survive their hardships. I have had circumstantial accounts of these deportations which bear internal evidence of being veracious, and I was told by an American friend who has lately returned from Constantinople that he had heard accounts at Constantinople confirming fully those which had come to me, and that what had struck him was the comparative calmness with which these atrocities were detailed by those who had first-hand knowledge of them.

Orders came from Constantinople that all the Armenian Christians in Trebizond were to be killed. Many of the Moslems tried to save their Christian neighbours, and offered them shelter in their houses, but the Turkish authorities were implacable.

Obeying the orders which they had received, they hunted out all the Christians, gathered them together, and drove a great crowd of them down the streets of Trebizond, past the fortress, to the edge of the sea. There they were all put on board sailing boats, carried out some distance on the Black Sea, and there thrown overboard and drowned.

Nearly the whole Armenian population of from 8,000 to 10,000 were destroyed - some in this way, some by slaughter, some by being sent to death elsewhere. After that, any other story becomes credible; and I am sorry to say that all the stories that I have received contain similar elements of horror, intensified in some cases by stories of shocking torture.

But the most pitiable case is not that of those whose misery was ended by swift death, but of those unfortunate women who, after their husbands had been killed and their daughters violated, were driven out with their young children to perish in the desert where they have no sustenance, and where they are the victims of the wild Arab tribes around them.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Ottoman Empire was destroyed and rightfully so............they were conquerors.........Their purpose was Power and to Spread Islam to the World. In the OP it shows times where they allowed other religions some freedom.........but this was for the fact that they had over extended their boundaries.....and couldn't defend all they had conquered...........So they did this to try and prevent rebellion and constant fighting all over the Empire. Not to be nice.

At the end of the Ottoman Empire......their territories was retaken by the French......the Italians in Africa......Russia came after them because they didn't like them much either,......They slaughtered the Christians as the Empire was nearly destroyed.............finished off during WWI..........and then after Greece wanted some payback and fought Turkey in the Greco Turkish War..........Greece finally lost but all that remains of the Ottoman Empire is present day Turkey.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

First World War.com - Primary Documents - Bryce Report into the Armenian Massacre, October 1915

As I have said, the procedure was exceedingly systematic. The whole Armenian population of each town or village was cleared out, by a house-to-house search. Every inmate was driven into the street. Some of the men were thrown into prison, where they were put to death, sometimes with torture; the rest of the men, with the women and children, were marched out of the town. When they had got some little distance they were separated, the men being taken to some place among the hills, where the soldiers, or the Kurdish tribes who were called in to help in the work of slaughter, dispatched them by shooting or bayoneting.

The women and children and old men were sent off under convoy of the lowest kinds of soldiers - many of them just drawn from gaols - to their distant destination, which was sometimes one of the unhealthy districts in the centre of Asia Minor, but more frequently the large desert in the province of Der el Zor, which lies east of Aleppo, in the direction of the Euphrates. They were driven along by the soldiers day after day, all on foot, beaten or left behind to perish if they could not keep up with the caravan; many fell by the way, and many died of hunger.

No provisions were given them by the Turkish Government, and they had already been robbed of everything they possessed. Not a few of the women were stripped naked and made to travel in that condition beneath a burning sun. Some of the mothers went mad and threw away their children, being unable to carry them further.

The caravan route was marked by a line of corpses, and comparatively few seem to have arrived at the destinations which had been prescribed for them - chosen, no doubt, because return was impossible and because there was little prospect that any would survive their hardships. I have had circumstantial accounts of these deportations which bear internal evidence of being veracious, and I was told by an American friend who has lately returned from Constantinople that he had heard accounts at Constantinople confirming fully those which had come to me, and that what had struck him was the comparative calmness with which these atrocities were detailed by those who had first-hand knowledge of them.

Orders came from Constantinople that all the Armenian Christians in Trebizond were to be killed. Many of the Moslems tried to save their Christian neighbours, and offered them shelter in their houses, but the Turkish authorities were implacable.

Obeying the orders which they had received, they hunted out all the Christians, gathered them together, and drove a great crowd of them down the streets of Trebizond, past the fortress, to the edge of the sea. There they were all put on board sailing boats, carried out some distance on the Black Sea, and there thrown overboard and drowned.

Nearly the whole Armenian population of from 8,000 to 10,000 were destroyed - some in this way, some by slaughter, some by being sent to death elsewhere. After that, any other story becomes credible; and I am sorry to say that all the stories that I have received contain similar elements of horror, intensified in some cases by stories of shocking torture.

But the most pitiable case is not that of those whose misery was ended by swift death, but of those unfortunate women who, after their husbands had been killed and their daughters violated, were driven out with their young children to perish in the desert where they have no sustenance, and where they are the victims of the wild Arab tribes around them.

Cowardice Is the Crime That Enables All Others

If the Armenians didn't fight back, they have nothing to whine about.

 

[eagle1462010]

First World War.com - Primary Documents - Bryce Report into the Armenian Massacre, October 1915

As I have said, the procedure was exceedingly systematic. The whole Armenian population of each town or village was cleared out, by a house-to-house search. Every inmate was driven into the street. Some of the men were thrown into prison, where they were put to death, sometimes with torture; the rest of the men, with the women and children, were marched out of the town. When they had got some little distance they were separated, the men being taken to some place among the hills, where the soldiers, or the Kurdish tribes who were called in to help in the work of slaughter, dispatched them by shooting or bayoneting.

The women and children and old men were sent off under convoy of the lowest kinds of soldiers - many of them just drawn from gaols - to their distant destination, which was sometimes one of the unhealthy districts in the centre of Asia Minor, but more frequently the large desert in the province of Der el Zor, which lies east of Aleppo, in the direction of the Euphrates. They were driven along by the soldiers day after day, all on foot, beaten or left behind to perish if they could not keep up with the caravan; many fell by the way, and many died of hunger.

No provisions were given them by the Turkish Government, and they had already been robbed of everything they possessed. Not a few of the women were stripped naked and made to travel in that condition beneath a burning sun. Some of the mothers went mad and threw away their children, being unable to carry them further.

The caravan route was marked by a line of corpses, and comparatively few seem to have arrived at the destinations which had been prescribed for them - chosen, no doubt, because return was impossible and because there was little prospect that any would survive their hardships. I have had circumstantial accounts of these deportations which bear internal evidence of being veracious, and I was told by an American friend who has lately returned from Constantinople that he had heard accounts at Constantinople confirming fully those which had come to me, and that what had struck him was the comparative calmness with which these atrocities were detailed by those who had first-hand knowledge of them.

Orders came from Constantinople that all the Armenian Christians in Trebizond were to be killed. Many of the Moslems tried to save their Christian neighbours, and offered them shelter in their houses, but the Turkish authorities were implacable.

Obeying the orders which they had received, they hunted out all the Christians, gathered them together, and drove a great crowd of them down the streets of Trebizond, past the fortress, to the edge of the sea. There they were all put on board sailing boats, carried out some distance on the Black Sea, and there thrown overboard and drowned.

Nearly the whole Armenian population of from 8,000 to 10,000 were destroyed - some in this way, some by slaughter, some by being sent to death elsewhere. After that, any other story becomes credible; and I am sorry to say that all the stories that I have received contain similar elements of horror, intensified in some cases by stories of shocking torture.

But the most pitiable case is not that of those whose misery was ended by swift death, but of those unfortunate women who, after their husbands had been killed and their daughters violated, were driven out with their young children to perish in the desert where they have no sustenance, and where they are the victims of the wild Arab tribes around them.

Cowardice Is the Crime That Enables All Others

If the Armenians didn't fight back, they have nothing to whine about.

Unbelievable post.........Really..........

The little kids should have fought them.........the women should have stopped them........the young girls should have stopped them........People did fight back.........they were killed first.........

That was way out there.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

First World War.com - Primary Documents - Bryce Report into the Armenian Massacre, October 1915

As I have said, the procedure was exceedingly systematic. The whole Armenian population of each town or village was cleared out, by a house-to-house search. Every inmate was driven into the street. Some of the men were thrown into prison, where they were put to death, sometimes with torture; the rest of the men, with the women and children, were marched out of the town. When they had got some little distance they were separated, the men being taken to some place among the hills, where the soldiers, or the Kurdish tribes who were called in to help in the work of slaughter, dispatched them by shooting or bayoneting.

The women and children and old men were sent off under convoy of the lowest kinds of soldiers - many of them just drawn from gaols - to their distant destination, which was sometimes one of the unhealthy districts in the centre of Asia Minor, but more frequently the large desert in the province of Der el Zor, which lies east of Aleppo, in the direction of the Euphrates. They were driven along by the soldiers day after day, all on foot, beaten or left behind to perish if they could not keep up with the caravan; many fell by the way, and many died of hunger.

No provisions were given them by the Turkish Government, and they had already been robbed of everything they possessed. Not a few of the women were stripped naked and made to travel in that condition beneath a burning sun. Some of the mothers went mad and threw away their children, being unable to carry them further.

The caravan route was marked by a line of corpses, and comparatively few seem to have arrived at the destinations which had been prescribed for them - chosen, no doubt, because return was impossible and because there was little prospect that any would survive their hardships. I have had circumstantial accounts of these deportations which bear internal evidence of being veracious, and I was told by an American friend who has lately returned from Constantinople that he had heard accounts at Constantinople confirming fully those which had come to me, and that what had struck him was the comparative calmness with which these atrocities were detailed by those who had first-hand knowledge of them.

Orders came from Constantinople that all the Armenian Christians in Trebizond were to be killed. Many of the Moslems tried to save their Christian neighbours, and offered them shelter in their houses, but the Turkish authorities were implacable.

Obeying the orders which they had received, they hunted out all the Christians, gathered them together, and drove a great crowd of them down the streets of Trebizond, past the fortress, to the edge of the sea. There they were all put on board sailing boats, carried out some distance on the Black Sea, and there thrown overboard and drowned.

Nearly the whole Armenian population of from 8,000 to 10,000 were destroyed - some in this way, some by slaughter, some by being sent to death elsewhere. After that, any other story becomes credible; and I am sorry to say that all the stories that I have received contain similar elements of horror, intensified in some cases by stories of shocking torture.

But the most pitiable case is not that of those whose misery was ended by swift death, but of those unfortunate women who, after their husbands had been killed and their daughters violated, were driven out with their young children to perish in the desert where they have no sustenance, and where they are the victims of the wild Arab tribes around them.

Cowardice Is the Crime That Enables All Others

If the Armenians didn't fight back, they have nothing to whine about.

Unbelievable post.........Really..........

The little kids should have fought them.........the women should have stopped them........the young girls should have stopped them........People did fight back.........they were killed first.........

.

Go Tell the Spartans

Since America is run by unpatriotic sissyboys who ran away to live like teeny boppers at the universities in order to avoid the draft, I can see where you're coming from.

 

[eagle1462010]

First World War.com - Primary Documents - Bryce Report into the Armenian Massacre, October 1915

As I have said, the procedure was exceedingly systematic. The whole Armenian population of each town or village was cleared out, by a house-to-house search. Every inmate was driven into the street. Some of the men were thrown into prison, where they were put to death, sometimes with torture; the rest of the men, with the women and children, were marched out of the town. When they had got some little distance they were separated, the men being taken to some place among the hills, where the soldiers, or the Kurdish tribes who were called in to help in the work of slaughter, dispatched them by shooting or bayoneting.

The women and children and old men were sent off under convoy of the lowest kinds of soldiers - many of them just drawn from gaols - to their distant destination, which was sometimes one of the unhealthy districts in the centre of Asia Minor, but more frequently the large desert in the province of Der el Zor, which lies east of Aleppo, in the direction of the Euphrates. They were driven along by the soldiers day after day, all on foot, beaten or left behind to perish if they could not keep up with the caravan; many fell by the way, and many died of hunger.

No provisions were given them by the Turkish Government, and they had already been robbed of everything they possessed. Not a few of the women were stripped naked and made to travel in that condition beneath a burning sun. Some of the mothers went mad and threw away their children, being unable to carry them further.

The caravan route was marked by a line of corpses, and comparatively few seem to have arrived at the destinations which had been prescribed for them - chosen, no doubt, because return was impossible and because there was little prospect that any would survive their hardships. I have had circumstantial accounts of these deportations which bear internal evidence of being veracious, and I was told by an American friend who has lately returned from Constantinople that he had heard accounts at Constantinople confirming fully those which had come to me, and that what had struck him was the comparative calmness with which these atrocities were detailed by those who had first-hand knowledge of them.

Orders came from Constantinople that all the Armenian Christians in Trebizond were to be killed. Many of the Moslems tried to save their Christian neighbours, and offered them shelter in their houses, but the Turkish authorities were implacable.

Obeying the orders which they had received, they hunted out all the Christians, gathered them together, and drove a great crowd of them down the streets of Trebizond, past the fortress, to the edge of the sea. There they were all put on board sailing boats, carried out some distance on the Black Sea, and there thrown overboard and drowned.

Nearly the whole Armenian population of from 8,000 to 10,000 were destroyed - some in this way, some by slaughter, some by being sent to death elsewhere. After that, any other story becomes credible; and I am sorry to say that all the stories that I have received contain similar elements of horror, intensified in some cases by stories of shocking torture.

But the most pitiable case is not that of those whose misery was ended by swift death, but of those unfortunate women who, after their husbands had been killed and their daughters violated, were driven out with their young children to perish in the desert where they have no sustenance, and where they are the victims of the wild Arab tribes around them.

Cowardice Is the Crime That Enables All Others

If the Armenians didn't fight back, they have nothing to whine about.

Unbelievable post.........Really..........

The little kids should have fought them.........the women should have stopped them........the young girls should have stopped them........People did fight back.........they were killed first.........

.

Go Tell the Spartans

Since America is run by unpatriotic sissyboys who ran away to live like teeny boppers at the universities in order to avoid the draft, I can see where you're coming from.

Bottom line......you ignore what happened there. Blame those killed for not dying well.

I've been over in that region before......wasn't hiding......They didn't want to come out and play much then..........We were right there...........

But you go on with the fantasies and you try to sidestep the issue of what the Ottomans did.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

First World War.com - Primary Documents - Bryce Report into the Armenian Massacre, October 1915

As I have said, the procedure was exceedingly systematic. The whole Armenian population of each town or village was cleared out, by a house-to-house search. Every inmate was driven into the street. Some of the men were thrown into prison, where they were put to death, sometimes with torture; the rest of the men, with the women and children, were marched out of the town. When they had got some little distance they were separated, the men being taken to some place among the hills, where the soldiers, or the Kurdish tribes who were called in to help in the work of slaughter, dispatched them by shooting or bayoneting.

The women and children and old men were sent off under convoy of the lowest kinds of soldiers - many of them just drawn from gaols - to their distant destination, which was sometimes one of the unhealthy districts in the centre of Asia Minor, but more frequently the large desert in the province of Der el Zor, which lies east of Aleppo, in the direction of the Euphrates. They were driven along by the soldiers day after day, all on foot, beaten or left behind to perish if they could not keep up with the caravan; many fell by the way, and many died of hunger.

No provisions were given them by the Turkish Government, and they had already been robbed of everything they possessed. Not a few of the women were stripped naked and made to travel in that condition beneath a burning sun. Some of the mothers went mad and threw away their children, being unable to carry them further.

The caravan route was marked by a line of corpses, and comparatively few seem to have arrived at the destinations which had been prescribed for them - chosen, no doubt, because return was impossible and because there was little prospect that any would survive their hardships. I have had circumstantial accounts of these deportations which bear internal evidence of being veracious, and I was told by an American friend who has lately returned from Constantinople that he had heard accounts at Constantinople confirming fully those which had come to me, and that what had struck him was the comparative calmness with which these atrocities were detailed by those who had first-hand knowledge of them.

Orders came from Constantinople that all the Armenian Christians in Trebizond were to be killed. Many of the Moslems tried to save their Christian neighbours, and offered them shelter in their houses, but the Turkish authorities were implacable.

Obeying the orders which they had received, they hunted out all the Christians, gathered them together, and drove a great crowd of them down the streets of Trebizond, past the fortress, to the edge of the sea. There they were all put on board sailing boats, carried out some distance on the Black Sea, and there thrown overboard and drowned.

Nearly the whole Armenian population of from 8,000 to 10,000 were destroyed - some in this way, some by slaughter, some by being sent to death elsewhere. After that, any other story becomes credible; and I am sorry to say that all the stories that I have received contain similar elements of horror, intensified in some cases by stories of shocking torture.

But the most pitiable case is not that of those whose misery was ended by swift death, but of those unfortunate women who, after their husbands had been killed and their daughters violated, were driven out with their young children to perish in the desert where they have no sustenance, and where they are the victims of the wild Arab tribes around them.

Cowardice Is the Crime That Enables All Others

If the Armenians didn't fight back, they have nothing to whine about.

Unbelievable post.........Really..........

The little kids should have fought them.........the women should have stopped them........the young girls should have stopped them........People did fight back.........they were killed first.........

.

Go Tell the Spartans

Since America is run by unpatriotic sissyboys who ran away to live like teeny boppers at the universities in order to avoid the draft, I can see where you're coming from.

Bottom line......

I've been over in that region before......They didn't want to come out and play much then..........We were right there...........

with the fantasies .

Victim-Mongering

I've heard too many stories about the Virgin Yellow, or "It's not their fault they're stupid." For example, in Apocalypto, the ones in the jungle could have had night patrols and booby traps to prevent the city slickers from ever even trying to raid their camp. This was proved by the chase in the end, when most of the hunters died, even though the rurals had not even put the dangers out there themselves.