The Problem with Socialism

[bripat9643]

If you knew anything about Indians, you would know we don't think of it is "our" land. Lol

Yeah, it got took didn't it. Your "Indian", how ya like John Trudell's work, writing, lectures, books? Most folks should know how corrupt it is on reservations, but to put that on socialism is just silly. The govt plan was to make those folks dependent. It was intentional. Not some socialist revolution.

Reservations have been under the total control of the federal government therefore the social society produced = utter failure.

Reservations have been under the total control of the government of a capitalist society that deemed them disposable in the rabid search for linear profit margin growth to infinity. I don't believe you're "Indian". I do believe we all have a pretty fair shot at becoming the new"Indian" if we fail to challenge the same beast that slaghtered them. Good day to you sir.

Indian reservations were held under total government control, aka, socialism. How has that worked?

They were? That will be news to the Native Americans.

Yes, they are.

 

[Yarddog]

Yeah, it got took didn't it. Your "Indian", how ya like John Trudell's work, writing, lectures, books? Most folks should know how corrupt it is on reservations, but to put that on socialism is just silly. The govt plan was to make those folks dependent. It was intentional. Not some socialist revolution.

Reservations have been under the total control of the federal government therefore the social society produced = utter failure.

Reservations have been under the total control of the government of a capitalist society that deemed them disposable in the rabid search for linear profit margin growth to infinity. I don't believe you're "Indian". I do believe we all have a pretty fair shot at becoming the new"Indian" if we fail to challenge the same beast that slaghtered them. Good day to you sir.

Indian reservations were held under total government control, aka, socialism. How has that worked?

They were? That will be news to the Native Americans.

You're getting very boring. Why do you go out of your way to appear foolish? Is it intentional (ie you're being facetious) or is it the real you?

Here, I'll help!

5 Ways The Government Keeps Native Americans In Poverty
Guest commentary curated by Forbes Opinion.
Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

By Shawn Regan

Imagine if the government were responsible for looking after your best interests. All of your assets must be managed by bureaucrats on your behalf. A special bureau is even set up to oversee your affairs. Every important decision you make requires approval, and every approval comes with a mountain of regulations.

How well would this work? Just ask Native Americans.

The federal government is responsible for managing Indian affairs for the benefit of all Indians. But by all accounts the government has failed to live up to this responsibility. As a result, Native American reservations are among the poorest communities in the United States. Here’s how the government keeps Native Americans in poverty.

Indian lands are owned and managed by the federal government.

[...]

5 Ways The Government Keeps Native Americans In Poverty

Agree, the system crushes their spirit

 

[Clementine]

The problem is never in history has it ever worked and for some reason idiots keep trying it

Yup, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time is the very definition of insanity, proving that liberalism is a mental disease.

 

[Clementine]

The only problem with socialism as it applies to the american economic system is that we don't want those little people to get the idea that they should get in on it too.

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profits versus externalized risk and expense for the “job creator” class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez faire capitalism for the masses

This is the current american paradigm.

You and some others need to learn the difference between capitalism and crony capitalism. It's mostly the left that tries to give capitalism a bad name by messing with it.

 

[Clementine]

Yes, they are.

They are a great example of why you shouldn't trust government.

 

[there4eyeM]

When everything is either extreme right or evil incarnate, discussion cannot take place. What we see in this thread is name calling and cliché spouting. There are nuances between laissez faire, anything goes 'capitalism' and Stalin's bloody hand on the tiller of a totalitarian form of Marxism.
Most people not identifying themselves as the militant right are open to some exchange of ideas. They also realize that modern societies have various formulas for economics and government that have elements of capitalism tempered with provisions for the common good.
If extremists want to make certain young people reject them, they should continue on their present path.

You simply assume socialism is good. Prove it. Don't just assume it.

The cited post does not say 'socialism is good'. The reply displays typical projection, followed by typical false assumption demand to defend a point not in the citation.
What happened to capitalism at the end of the nineteenth century and ito the twentieth?

 

[Iceweasel]

Learn how pro football works. It's damn near communism.

Your ignorance is off the charts and your arrogance isn't going to make up for it. I doubt the team owners would agree that the millions they take in is the result of government ownership.

But thanks for doing such a good job of revealing just how uninformed one must be to hold hose views. Meanwhile, everything you enjoy in life, including the machine you use to bless us with your pearls of wisdom, is the result of capitalism.

 

[Iceweasel]

The cited post does not say 'socialism is good'. The reply displays typical projection, followed by typical false assumption demand to defend a point not in the citation.
What happened to capitalism at the end of the nineteenth century and ito the twentieth?

Are you babbling on about crony capitalism? Many libs get confused and think that's free market capitalism but the barons of the 19th century were very much in bed with government. That does continue to a lessor extent today and conservatives have been howling about it, while liberals vote, oddly enough, to support it.

 

[gipper]

This book should be required reading in the p-schools, but we all know it won't.

From the author of 'The Real Lincoln'...one of the greatest history books ever written. It should also be required reading for all Americans, but we all know it won't.

Remember when "socialism" was a dirty word? Now students at America's elite universities are parroting socialist talking points and "sure-thing" Hillary Clinton is struggling to win the Democratic nomination against a 74-year-old avowed socialist who promises to make the nation more like Europe. What's happened? Do Americans need a reminder about the dangers of socialist ideology and practices?

Thomas DiLorenzo, economics professor and senior fellow at the Ludwig von Mises Institute, deconstructs the retrograde ideology that has suddenly become disturbingly hip in The Problem with Socialism.

Is this new? I've already read most of his other books.

It is new. It was recently published. No doubt it fully exposes the idoiticy of socialism in a way the author is famous for.

 

[Iceweasel]

I'm doing well, thanks for the concern; I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what you advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

Quote where I made those points or be proven as a lying asshole. I don't need to misrepresent others' views. YOU DO!

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on gettng by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do is act as if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

So you think the country has moved to the right. So you're a liar, an unclever one and that, and incredibly stupid. We have gay marriage, the government leaning on private citizens to bake cakes against their will, bigger government, more regulations, industries like coal being dumped on, mandated by central government health insurance and on and on.

You live in an alternative universe and can only support it with lies and smears.

 

[Norman]

Learn how pro football works. It's damn near communism.

Your ignorance is off the charts and your arrogance isn't going to make up for it. I doubt the team owners would agree that the millions they take in is the result of government ownership.

But thanks for doing such a good job of revealing just how uninformed one must be to hold hose views. Meanwhile, everything you enjoy in life, including the machine you use to bless us with your pearls of wisdom, is the result of capitalism.

One more guy who mistakes co-operation with government coercion... This is very common among socialists, they don't even understand their own theory. Coercion is pretty much the opposite of co-operation.

I don't see many football players holding guns to each other's heads for them to perform. Football is fully voluntary co-operation, except for maybe the enormous amounts of taxes the players and leagues pay.

 

[Mac1958]

There's little doubt that (a) the term "socialism" is no longer avoided like the plague, and that (b) support for and defense of the term has increased significantly, especially with the rise of Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders. Public opinion has clearly changed.

But public opinion is usually formed within a comparative format. This idea vs. that idea. And those who are against socialism (or, more accurately, Euro-democratic socialism) have done an amazingly lousy job of presenting their case.

Just screaming SOCIALISM! and calling everyone a Marxist or a communist just isn't enough any more. You have to clearly and effectively and respectfully offer an attractive alternative. These folks clearly haven't recognized that yet.
.

EXACTLY the wrong advice.

Screaming socialism is what works. Screaming Marxism at universities is exactly what has caused the issue, or do you really believe that there are more facts supporting socialism today, than in the past (the case looks worse and worse as each year goes by). There really is no intellectual battle, everyone with even an ounce of intellectual integrity knows socialism is a lie and a power grab.

There is no point in arguing against someone with facts when the only thing they understand is rhetoric. Most of the Marxist indoctrinated people physically can't even think logically, about anything.

Do you think the tactic of just screaming SOCIALISM! is working?

Do you see our society moving right?
.

 

[Norman]

There's little doubt that (a) the term "socialism" is no longer avoided like the plague, and that (b) support for and defense of the term has increased significantly, especially with the rise of Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders. Public opinion has clearly changed.

But public opinion is usually formed within a comparative format. This idea vs. that idea. And those who are against socialism (or, more accurately, Euro-democratic socialism) have done an amazingly lousy job of presenting their case.

Just screaming SOCIALISM! and calling everyone a Marxist or a communist just isn't enough any more. You have to clearly and effectively and respectfully offer an attractive alternative. These folks clearly haven't recognized that yet.
.

EXACTLY the wrong advice.

Screaming socialism is what works. Screaming Marxism at universities is exactly what has caused the issue, or do you really believe that there are more facts supporting socialism today, than in the past (the case looks worse and worse as each year goes by). There really is no intellectual battle, everyone with even an ounce of intellectual integrity knows socialism is a lie and a power grab.

There is no point in arguing against someone with facts when the only thing they understand is rhetoric. Most of the Marxist indoctrinated people physically can't even think logically, about anything.

Do you think the tactic of just screaming SOCIALISM! is working?

Do you see our society moving right?
.

The tactic used by the right has not been that of smear, but reason. It has failed. War is not won by good arguments, but guns.

Now, the left has used only smear and corruption, that has actually worked. It's almost ironic that the left understand human behavior better than the right when it comes to actual practice.

 

[Mac1958]

There's little doubt that (a) the term "socialism" is no longer avoided like the plague, and that (b) support for and defense of the term has increased significantly, especially with the rise of Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders. Public opinion has clearly changed.

But public opinion is usually formed within a comparative format. This idea vs. that idea. And those who are against socialism (or, more accurately, Euro-democratic socialism) have done an amazingly lousy job of presenting their case.

Just screaming SOCIALISM! and calling everyone a Marxist or a communist just isn't enough any more. You have to clearly and effectively and respectfully offer an attractive alternative. These folks clearly haven't recognized that yet.
.

EXACTLY the wrong advice.

Screaming socialism is what works. Screaming Marxism at universities is exactly what has caused the issue, or do you really believe that there are more facts supporting socialism today, than in the past (the case looks worse and worse as each year goes by). There really is no intellectual battle, everyone with even an ounce of intellectual integrity knows socialism is a lie and a power grab.

There is no point in arguing against someone with facts when the only thing they understand is rhetoric. Most of the Marxist indoctrinated people physically can't even think logically, about anything.

Do you think the tactic of just screaming SOCIALISM! is working?

Do you see our society moving right?
.

The tactic used by the right has not been that of smear, but reason. It has failed. War is not won by good arguments, but guns.

Now, the left has used only smear and corruption, that has actually worked. It's almost ironic that the left understand human behavior better than the right when it comes to actual practice.

From my perspective - and yeah, I could definitely be off here - the Left has enjoyed so much social/cultural success for two reasons:

First, it has been consistent and methodical in its approach for literally decades, generations now. Example: Look at how the power of PC and Identity Politics slowly but steadily increased at the core of our society, until now a person's skin color or sexuality are forefront in who they are and how they are to be treated. That didn't happen overnight.

Second, the Right simply did not see this building until it was too late for them. Now they're trying to wrestle the society back all at one time and they don't know how to do it (neither would I). So the approach I'm talking about would be more patient and deliberative. I don't think they can make this change all at one time, it won't happen overnight.

We'll see, but right now the momentum certainly looks like it belongs to the Left.
.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There's little doubt that (a) the term "socialism" is no longer avoided like the plague, and that (b) support for and defense of the term has increased significantly, especially with the rise of Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders. Public opinion has clearly changed.

But public opinion is usually formed within a comparative format. This idea vs. that idea. And those who are against socialism (or, more accurately, Euro-democratic socialism) have done an amazingly lousy job of presenting their case.

Just screaming SOCIALISM! and calling everyone a Marxist or a communist just isn't enough any more. You have to clearly and effectively and respectfully offer an attractive alternative. These folks clearly haven't recognized that yet.
.

EXACTLY the wrong advice.

Screaming socialism is what works. Screaming Marxism at universities is exactly what has caused the issue, or do you really believe that there are more facts supporting socialism today, than in the past (the case looks worse and worse as each year goes by). There really is no intellectual battle, everyone with even an ounce of intellectual integrity knows socialism is a lie and a power grab.

There is no point in arguing against someone with facts when the only thing they understand is rhetoric. Most of the Marxist indoctrinated people physically can't even think logically, about anything.

Do you think the tactic of just screaming SOCIALISM! is working?

Do you see our society moving right?
.

The tactic used by the right has not been that of smear, but reason. It has failed. War is not won by good arguments, but guns.

Now, the left has used only smear and corruption, that has actually worked. It's almost ironic that the left understand human behavior better than the right when it comes to actual practice.

From my perspective - and yeah, I could definitely be off here - the Left has enjoyed so much social/cultural success for two reasons:

First, it has been consistent and methodical in its approach for literally decades, generations now. Example: Look at how the power of PC and Identity Politics slowly but steadily increased at the core of our society, until now a person's skin color or sexuality are forefront in who they are and how they are to be treated. That didn't happen overnight.

Second, the Right simply did not see this building until it was too late for them. Now they're trying to wrestle the society back all at one time and they don't know how to do it (neither would I). So the approach I'm talking about would be more patient and deliberative. I don't think they can make this change all at one time, it won't happen overnight.

We'll see, but right now the momentum certainly looks like it belongs to the Left.
.

Of course. The victories against bigotry and discrimination won by the left in this country couldn't possibly be organic in nature. They aren't to be looked at as being positive. They aren't founded on principles of fairness and the rule of law.

No.....they are the result of a devious plan to poison society in a tireless search for cultural decline! Those lefties are just better at staying on point than the righties. Yeah....that's it! All else.......is exactly equal. If the right can wake up and start trying harder to get their message out....they'll be able to "wrestle" the country back.

Weeeeeeeeee!

 

[Moonglow]

There's little doubt that (a) the term "socialism" is no longer avoided like the plague, and that (b) support for and defense of the term has increased significantly, especially with the rise of Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders. Public opinion has clearly changed.

But public opinion is usually formed within a comparative format. This idea vs. that idea. And those who are against socialism (or, more accurately, Euro-democratic socialism) have done an amazingly lousy job of presenting their case.

Just screaming SOCIALISM! and calling everyone a Marxist or a communist just isn't enough any more. You have to clearly and effectively and respectfully offer an attractive alternative. These folks clearly haven't recognized that yet.
.

EXACTLY the wrong advice.

Screaming socialism is what works. Screaming Marxism at universities is exactly what has caused the issue, or do you really believe that there are more facts supporting socialism today, than in the past (the case looks worse and worse as each year goes by). There really is no intellectual battle, everyone with even an ounce of intellectual integrity knows socialism is a lie and a power grab.

There is no point in arguing against someone with facts when the only thing they understand is rhetoric. Most of the Marxist indoctrinated people physically can't even think logically, about anything.

Do you think the tactic of just screaming SOCIALISM! is working?

Do you see our society moving right?
.

The tactic used by the right has not been that of smear, but reason. It has failed. War is not won by good arguments, but guns.

Now, the left has used only smear and corruption, that has actually worked. It's almost ironic that the left understand human behavior better than the right when it comes to actual practice.

So if we see another USMB poster that has run amok shooting in rage, it'll be you this time?

 

[Norman]

There's little doubt that (a) the term "socialism" is no longer avoided like the plague, and that (b) support for and defense of the term has increased significantly, especially with the rise of Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders. Public opinion has clearly changed.

But public opinion is usually formed within a comparative format. This idea vs. that idea. And those who are against socialism (or, more accurately, Euro-democratic socialism) have done an amazingly lousy job of presenting their case.

Just screaming SOCIALISM! and calling everyone a Marxist or a communist just isn't enough any more. You have to clearly and effectively and respectfully offer an attractive alternative. These folks clearly haven't recognized that yet.
.

EXACTLY the wrong advice.

Screaming socialism is what works. Screaming Marxism at universities is exactly what has caused the issue, or do you really believe that there are more facts supporting socialism today, than in the past (the case looks worse and worse as each year goes by). There really is no intellectual battle, everyone with even an ounce of intellectual integrity knows socialism is a lie and a power grab.

There is no point in arguing against someone with facts when the only thing they understand is rhetoric. Most of the Marxist indoctrinated people physically can't even think logically, about anything.

Do you think the tactic of just screaming SOCIALISM! is working?

Do you see our society moving right?
.

The tactic used by the right has not been that of smear, but reason. It has failed. War is not won by good arguments, but guns.

Now, the left has used only smear and corruption, that has actually worked. It's almost ironic that the left understand human behavior better than the right when it comes to actual practice.

So if we see another USMB poster that has run amok shooting in rage, it'll be you this time?

No, when we see another USMB poster who has a desperate need for a brain, it'll be you.

It was an analogy you idiot.

 

[Centinel]

Specifically what rights are you concerned about?

More specifically, how would socialism affect people's property rights?

 

[Centinel]

Briefly stated in anticipation of the standard right-wing arguments, would you consider it unfair or improper to relieve a thief or a schemer of his wrongfully acquired riches and distributing it among those he stole it from or cheated?

Of course a thief doesn't justly own the thing he stole.

What does your question have to do with the government using force to redistribute people's justly owned property?

 

[Centinel]

• Q. What does ti take to be a socialist
• A. Christian Ethics

• Force is power, banks, insurance companies, cartels and wall street have both;
• Brokers take the assets of others to their benefit; vis a vis fiduciaries
• Theft is wrong, taxes paid to Caesar are not.

Using force to take another's property is antithetical to Christian ethics.