The Problem with Socialism

[bripat9643]

This book should be required reading in the p-schools, but we all know it won't.

From the author of 'The Real Lincoln'...one of the greatest history books ever written. It should also be required reading for all Americans, but we all know it won't.

One thing Thomas DiLorenzo knows very well is that approximately one out of every ten thousand Americans is capable of engaging in an intelligent discussion of socialism. The truth is even well-educated political scholars engage in strenuous debate over what exactly constitutes the truest and most viable form of socialism.

Unfortunately the vast majority of contemporary Americans have been convinced, largely by persistent right-wing propaganda, that socialism is just another word for what in fact is communism. But the fact is socialism is to communism what democracy is to anarchy. Both are extreme comparisons which are rooted in sheer political ignorance.

Remember when "socialism" was a dirty word?

Socialism was made a "dirty word" in the 1950s by the ravings of a ruthless political opportunist, Senator Joseph McCarthy, who managed to achieve prominence by exploiting the political ignorance of the average American. He did this by repetitiously implanting the notion that the U.S. had been infiltrated by communists and we were in danger of being enslaved by the likes of Joseph Stalin. The tragedy of this comedy is the percentage of Americans who actually believed what this opportunistic demagogue was telling them.

Now students at America's elite universities are parroting socialist talking points and "sure-thing" Hillary Clinton is struggling to win the Democratic nomination against a 74-year-old avowed socialist who promises to make the nation more like Europe. What's happened? Do Americans need a reminder about the dangers of socialist ideology and practices?

The reason students at elite universities are "parroting" socialist principles is Americans at large have outgrown the kind of raw political ignorance that served the interests of the McCarthyites of the '50s and have a more intelligent understanding of what socialism is and how certain socialist policies, when applied to regulating our capitalist system, will be beneficial to the vast majority of the common People.

Those who still regard the very word, socialism, with negative connotation should understand that some of the most substantially beneficial components of America's social structure are Social Security, Medicare and Public Primary Education. These are socialist policies.

Try to imagine what America would be like without them.

Thomas DiLorenzo, economics professor and senior fellow at the Ludwig von Mises Institute, deconstructs the retrograde ideology that has suddenly become disturbingly hip in The Problem with Socialism.

The gimmick in Prof. DiLorenzo's presentation is its effort to convey the impression that because Bernie Sanders has declared himself a socialist his ambition is to transform America into a socialist nation. But anyone with a basic understanding of politics and world history knows the only nations which have ever adopted an extreme form of socialism (communism) are those nations whose economies had been totally ruined by prolonged war or lack of resources (e.g., Russia, China, etc).

The U.S. is the diametric opposite of any such consideration. But this doesn't mean our highly successful capitalist system is not in need of certain socialist-oriented regulations to prevent the kind of thing we see happening in the emergence of the economic One Percent, which threatens to eradicate the American Middle Class.

Socialism has zero redeeming qualities, Millions people would perish in a socialist system like progressives want.
Millions want nothing to do with the inadequacies of socialist living, and should not be forced to participate in the shit show...
...and even more so no one should even be expected try socialist living.

Socialism's been pretty good to Wall Street, professional sports franchises, big pharma, big agribusiness, and for major corporate entities for a long time in america.

Yes, socialism is all about corruption…

Of course, and capitalism as we all know is by definition bereft of any and all corruption. Sheesh pard.

Yes, it pretty much is. All the "corruption" you're thinking of was the result of government meddling in the market. It always involved politicians and government bureaucrats.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Lived and worked in Europe, yeah. Blended socialist/capitalist society like america is.

Well, I've lived in a total government controlled social society till I was 17. It's called Indian reservation, it is, Was and always will be a total shit hole because of socialism.

It was a total shithole because capitalists stole their land, genocided them into concentration camps, and refused to allow them their own traditinal ways of earning a living. Intentionally, for their own capitalist vision of "progress". These people were in the way and needed to be subjugated.

If you knew anything about Indians, you would know we don't think of it is "our" land. Lol

Yeah, it got took didn't it. Your "Indian", how ya like John Trudell's work, writing, lectures, books? Most folks should know how corrupt it is on reservations, but to put that on socialism is just silly. The govt plan was to make those folks dependent. It was intentional. Not some socialist revolution.

Reservations have been under the total control of the federal government therefore the social society produced = utter failure.

Reservations have been under the total control of the government of a capitalist society that deemed them disposable in the rabid search for linear profit margin growth to infinity. I don't believe you're "Indian". I do believe we all have a pretty fair shot at becoming the new"Indian" if we fail to challenge the same beast that slaghtered them. Good day to you sir.

 

[Norman]

There's little doubt that (a) the term "socialism" is no longer avoided like the plague, and that (b) support for and defense of the term has increased significantly, especially with the rise of Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders. Public opinion has clearly changed.

But public opinion is usually formed within a comparative format. This idea vs. that idea. And those who are against socialism (or, more accurately, Euro-democratic socialism) have done an amazingly lousy job of presenting their case.

Just screaming SOCIALISM! and calling everyone a Marxist or a communist just isn't enough any more. You have to clearly and effectively and respectfully offer an attractive alternative. These folks clearly haven't recognized that yet.
.

EXACTLY the wrong advice.

Screaming socialism is what works. Screaming Marxism at universities is exactly what has caused the issue, or do you really believe that there are more facts supporting socialism today, than in the past (the case looks worse and worse as each year goes by). There really is no intellectual battle, everyone with even an ounce of intellectual integrity knows socialism is a lie and a power grab.

There is no point in arguing against someone with facts when the only thing they understand is rhetoric. Most of the Marxist indoctrinated people physically can't even think logically, about anything.

 

[Rustic]

Well, I've lived in a total government controlled social society till I was 17. It's called Indian reservation, it is, Was and always will be a total shit hole because of socialism.

It was a total shithole because capitalists stole their land, genocided them into concentration camps, and refused to allow them their own traditinal ways of earning a living. Intentionally, for their own capitalist vision of "progress". These people were in the way and needed to be subjugated.

If you knew anything about Indians, you would know we don't think of it is "our" land. Lol

Yeah, it got took didn't it. Your "Indian", how ya like John Trudell's work, writing, lectures, books? Most folks should know how corrupt it is on reservations, but to put that on socialism is just silly. The govt plan was to make those folks dependent. It was intentional. Not some socialist revolution.

Reservations have been under the total control of the federal government therefore the social society produced = utter failure.

Reservations have been under the total control of the government of a capitalist society that deemed them disposable in the rabid search for linear profit margin growth to infinity. I don't believe you're "Indian". I do believe we all have a pretty fair shot at becoming the new"Indian" if we fail to challenge the same beast that slaghtered them. Good day to you sir.

I'm not politically correct, that's why you believe what you believe. Dumbass LOL

 

[bripat9643]

Gun free zones are the killing zones.

The last I checked, murder is still against the law.

Hasn't stopped murder has it.. Just like people say gun free zones don't stop shootings so there. Weird argument that.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is.

Yes, the gun-free zones....the places that all the lunatics go to when they want to commit the next gun massacre on innocent people....because they know in a gun-free zone NOBODY is going to be able to prevent the massacre because hey guns aren't allowed, thanks to the Leftist bed wetters.

My point is that's equally silly, nothing more.

What's silly about it?

I'm not sure I could ever break it down to a hominid of your caliber, take care.

In other words, you can't explain why it's silly. Left wingers just know their idiotic ideas are correct even if they can't explain why.

 

[bripat9643]

This book should be required reading in the p-schools, but we all know it won't.

From the author of 'The Real Lincoln'...one of the greatest history books ever written. It should also be required reading for all Americans, but we all know it won't.

Remember when "socialism" was a dirty word? Now students at America's elite universities are parroting socialist talking points and "sure-thing" Hillary Clinton is struggling to win the Democratic nomination against a 74-year-old avowed socialist who promises to make the nation more like Europe. What's happened? Do Americans need a reminder about the dangers of socialist ideology and practices?

Thomas DiLorenzo, economics professor and senior fellow at the Ludwig von Mises Institute, deconstructs the retrograde ideology that has suddenly become disturbingly hip in The Problem with Socialism.

This fails as a preach to the choir fallacy.

No one of significance or merit ‘advocates’ for ‘socialism.’

And any conservative who believes that ‘socialism’ poses some sort of a ‘threat’ exhibits only his stupidity and ignorance of ‘socialism.’

"No one of significance or merit ‘advocates’ for ‘socialism.’ "

That has to be the biggest whopper ever posted in this forum.

 

[bripat9643]

Lucy? Are you there?

Lucy? Are you there?

Ok, well, anyway, like I was saying before you joined in:

I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what some (perhaps you?) advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on getting by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do isactas if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

On Bill Clinton' watch; the FCC was deregulated, mass incarceration shot way up and Hilary made some snide reference to black kids caught up in the system as super predators, various global trade agreements, and the welfare reform biz at a time when 70% of the recipients were children.

Over half of all discretionary spending goes to the military and we continue to be the biggest military arms dealers on the planet. Often they get turned back on us, but hey, it's good for business. We can't even really figure out exactly what we spend on empire, a lot of it gets hidden.

If one looks at the rest of the developed industrial countries on the planet, the vast majority of them invest back into society regarding healthcare and education. All this talk of being globally competitive, requires an educated population. Expanding public education for the masses to include a college education keeps us competitive - it's an investment in society. Instead we've turned it into a for profit industry and turn kids whose parents can't pay for college into debt peons.

And how exactly does leaving worker healthcare on the backs of American employers (for however much longer that lasts, they're wiggling more and more out of that) make those employers competitive with employers in nations with single payer healthcare programs that have better healthcare outcomes at less cost?

For the most expensive healthcare system on the planet, also the system in which costs are climbing most aggressively on the planet, we enjoy these WHO ratings; 39th in infant mortality, 43rd in adult female mortality, 42nd in adult male mortality, 46th in life expectancy.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, I don't think we have a healthy society, and I don't see an inflection point in this 5-6 decadeish long trajectory. Further more from a political system point of view, I don't think "either" side has any intention of doing anything about it - which is to say, this shit works for them. There will not be a top down resolution, it's on us, all of us. The "leftist" vs "rightist" bullshit is just that, bullshit, right where they system wants us all. Unaware of the bigger picture, reacting emotionally from institutional imprinting, and totally unable to coherently recognized who is friend (common interests) and foe (benefitting from the cannibalization of american society).

So chock-full-o misinformation, it's difficult to know where to start.

I will address the "infant mortality" rating. The U.S. definition of an infant is at a lower number of weeks than other part of the world. We go to heroic rates to save premature babies that are allowed to die and not counted as infant deaths elsewhere. So, that statistic is a lie.

And the National Health Service in England is hardly an investment, unless you consider killing off old and sick people a societal benefit (which you likely do).

For the most expensive healthcare system on the planet, also the system in which costs are climbing most aggressively on the planet, we enjoy these WHO ratings; 39th in infant mortality, 43rd in adult female mortality, 42nd in adult male mortality, 46th in life expectancy.

Please do go on. I said WHO numbers, yeah? So your point is we're really at 38th in infant mortality as opposed to 39th?

The U.S. definition of an infant is at a lower number of weeks than other part of the world. So, that statistic is a lie.

I'd like to learn more, where can I dig into this? A study perhaps that will flesh this out more? Not really interested in a media interpretation, thanks.

Infant Mortality: A Deceptive Statistic

 

[boedicca]

Lucy? Are you there?

Lucy? Are you there?

Ok, well, anyway, like I was saying before you joined in:

I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what some (perhaps you?) advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on getting by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do isactas if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

On Bill Clinton' watch; the FCC was deregulated, mass incarceration shot way up and Hilary made some snide reference to black kids caught up in the system as super predators, various global trade agreements, and the welfare reform biz at a time when 70% of the recipients were children.

Over half of all discretionary spending goes to the military and we continue to be the biggest military arms dealers on the planet. Often they get turned back on us, but hey, it's good for business. We can't even really figure out exactly what we spend on empire, a lot of it gets hidden.

If one looks at the rest of the developed industrial countries on the planet, the vast majority of them invest back into society regarding healthcare and education. All this talk of being globally competitive, requires an educated population. Expanding public education for the masses to include a college education keeps us competitive - it's an investment in society. Instead we've turned it into a for profit industry and turn kids whose parents can't pay for college into debt peons.

And how exactly does leaving worker healthcare on the backs of American employers (for however much longer that lasts, they're wiggling more and more out of that) make those employers competitive with employers in nations with single payer healthcare programs that have better healthcare outcomes at less cost?

For the most expensive healthcare system on the planet, also the system in which costs are climbing most aggressively on the planet, we enjoy these WHO ratings; 39th in infant mortality, 43rd in adult female mortality, 42nd in adult male mortality, 46th in life expectancy.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, I don't think we have a healthy society, and I don't see an inflection point in this 5-6 decadeish long trajectory. Further more from a political system point of view, I don't think "either" side has any intention of doing anything about it - which is to say, this shit works for them. There will not be a top down resolution, it's on us, all of us. The "leftist" vs "rightist" bullshit is just that, bullshit, right where they system wants us all. Unaware of the bigger picture, reacting emotionally from institutional imprinting, and totally unable to coherently recognized who is friend (common interests) and foe (benefitting from the cannibalization of american society).

So chock-full-o misinformation, it's difficult to know where to start.

I will address the "infant mortality" rating. The U.S. definition of an infant is at a lower number of weeks than other part of the world. We go to heroic rates to save premature babies that are allowed to die and not counted as infant deaths elsewhere. So, that statistic is a lie.

And the National Health Service in England is hardly an investment, unless you consider killing off old and sick people a societal benefit (which you likely do).

For the most expensive healthcare system on the planet, also the system in which costs are climbing most aggressively on the planet, we enjoy these WHO ratings; 39th in infant mortality, 43rd in adult female mortality, 42nd in adult male mortality, 46th in life expectancy.

Please do go on. I said WHO numbers, yeah? So your point is we're really at 38th in infant mortality as opposed to 39th?

The U.S. definition of an infant is at a lower number of weeks than other part of the world. So, that statistic is a lie.

I'd like to learn more, where can I dig into this? A study perhaps that will flesh this out more? Not really interested in a media interpretation, thanks.

Infant Mortality: A Deceptive Statistic

BINGO.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, socialism is all about corruption…

Of course, and capitalism as we all know is by definition bereft of any and all corruption. Sheesh pard.

Socialism is deadly to any sort of prosperity, except the greedy kind.

God I'm glad we're safe frome greed here.

All the flaws in the American system are do to socialism, exclusively...

But of course. This is like arguing over religion for some of you. You are simply belivers, so you don't need to think.

You must be thinking of socialists like you.

 

[bripat9643]

When everything is either extreme right or evil incarnate, discussion cannot take place. What we see in this thread is name calling and cliché spouting. There are nuances between laissez faire, anything goes 'capitalism' and Stalin's bloody hand on the tiller of a totalitarian form of Marxism.
Most people not identifying themselves as the militant right are open to some exchange of ideas. They also realize that modern societies have various formulas for economics and government that have elements of capitalism tempered with provisions for the common good.
If extremists want to make certain young people reject them, they should continue on their present path.

You simply assume socialism is good. Prove it. Don't just assume it.

 

[bripat9643]

Socialism is deadly to any sort of prosperity, except the greedy kind.

God I'm glad we're safe frome greed here.

All the flaws in the American system are do to socialism, exclusively...

But of course. This is like arguing over religion for some of you. You are simply belivers, so you don't need to think.

I've lived under a socialist society, have you?

Lived and worked in Europe, yeah. Blended socialist/capitalist society like america is.

And you experienced a lower standard of living.

 

[bripat9643]

I've been one for 30 plus years owning my own business. What I do know is a dumb fuck loser when I run across one.

What you know isn't capitalism. Anyone who does doesn't think it doesn't have problems.

Right, I need some dimwit on the internet to bring me up to speed. I'll stick with reality.

Actually you're working very hard to avoid it.

The only problem with socialism as it applies to the american economic system is that we don't want those little people to get the idea that they should get in on it too.

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profits versus externalized risk and expense for the “job creator” class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez faire capitalism for the masses

This is the current american paradigm.

That isn't capitalism. It's the system socialists have created.

Utter horse shit on the face of it, isn't socialism taking from the rich?

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profits versus externalized risk and expense for the “job creator” class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez faire capitalism for the masses

Opposite direction pard. Who did that again?

No, socialism is not "taking from the rich." Socialism is where government makes economic and business decisions rather than individuals. What you describe are all characteristics of the mixed economy. They are the result of socialist politicians supposedly "fixing" capitalism. Nothing is "socialized" under pure capitalism.

 

[bripat9643]

Right, I need some dimwit on the internet to bring me up to speed. I'll stick with reality.

You need to learn capitalism, good and bad.

You need to quit being an idiot. Public ed has brainwashed the kids these days into thinking capitalism is something evil so you can live your puny lives and leech off of others.

What they are taught is that those who believe capitalism is the answer to everything, don't know capitalism at all.

No one says capitalism to everything. However, left wingers do claim socialism is the answer to everything.

Nah, that's just what it aounds like to you, blaspheme.

Can you name a problem that leftists believe they can't cure with some government program or regulation?

 

[bripat9643]

The paranoia of people like you is not our actual system.

It's not paranoia...it's a fucking fact and if you had any intellectual curiosity? You would look into the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy of 1933, gold confiscation and then the IMF taking USA.INC into receivership to provide the alleged "19 essential gubermint services" that they do as a part of a "for profit" venture....it is a fact.

Go back to sleep, lil fella.......the language and terms I use taxes your lack of intellect and why you are not able to grasp the very concepts of which I speak......tis a pity....

Socialism vs. capitalism: Which is the moral system?

What's moral about paying people as little as possible, if you can get away with it?

It's called a "voluntary transaction." What's moral about compelling to pay prices they don't want to pay?

What was moral about using child labor, even chaining them to the machines they worked on?

Children were never chained to machines, you lying douche bag.

Child labor existed for thousands of years prior to capitalism. Capitalism is what made it possible to end child labor. Prior to that, children would have starved if they didn't work.

"Capitalism is what made it possible to end child labor."

Not until it was challenged by those it oppressed. Same as power ever worked.

Child labor was legal well into the 20th century because the majority of parents wanted it to be legal. Their children would have starved if it wasn't for the money their children brought in by working. In typical socialist fashion you think the government passed a law and brought everyrone's income up to modern standards. What you fail to admit is that the productivity of our society has increased over time, and in past eras it wasn't sufficient to allow children to spend all day playing or going to school.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't do safe spaces. There are no such things.

Well yeah, on accounta they made 'em all gun free zones.

Yes, the gun-free zones....the places that all the lunatics go to when they want to commit the next gun massacre on innocent people....because they know in a gun-free zone NOBODY is going to be able to prevent the massacre because hey guns aren't allowed, thanks to the Leftist bed wetters.

America is alegedly a killng free zone, clearly that hasn't worked either. We should let citizens kill if they know they're in the right. The only way to stop a bad killer is with a good killer.

Gun free zones are the killing zones.

The last I checked, murder is still against the law.

Hasn't stopped murder has it.. Just like people say gun free zones don't stop shootings so there. Weird argument that.

Mass shootings occur almost exclusively in gun free zones.

 

[bripat9643]

Lucy? Are you there?

Lucy? Are you there?

Ok, well, anyway, like I was saying before you joined in:

I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what some (perhaps you?) advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on getting by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do isactas if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

On Bill Clinton' watch; the FCC was deregulated, mass incarceration shot way up and Hilary made some snide reference to black kids caught up in the system as super predators, various global trade agreements, and the welfare reform biz at a time when 70% of the recipients were children.

Over half of all discretionary spending goes to the military and we continue to be the biggest military arms dealers on the planet. Often they get turned back on us, but hey, it's good for business. We can't even really figure out exactly what we spend on empire, a lot of it gets hidden.

If one looks at the rest of the developed industrial countries on the planet, the vast majority of them invest back into society regarding healthcare and education. All this talk of being globally competitive, requires an educated population. Expanding public education for the masses to include a college education keeps us competitive - it's an investment in society. Instead we've turned it into a for profit industry and turn kids whose parents can't pay for college into debt peons.

And how exactly does leaving worker healthcare on the backs of American employers (for however much longer that lasts, they're wiggling more and more out of that) make those employers competitive with employers in nations with single payer healthcare programs that have better healthcare outcomes at less cost?

For the most expensive healthcare system on the planet, also the system in which costs are climbing most aggressively on the planet, we enjoy these WHO ratings; 39th in infant mortality, 43rd in adult female mortality, 42nd in adult male mortality, 46th in life expectancy.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, I don't think we have a healthy society, and I don't see an inflection point in this 5-6 decadeish long trajectory. Further more from a political system point of view, I don't think "either" side has any intention of doing anything about it - which is to say, this shit works for them. There will not be a top down resolution, it's on us, all of us. The "leftist" vs "rightist" bullshit is just that, bullshit, right where they system wants us all. Unaware of the bigger picture, reacting emotionally from institutional imprinting, and totally unable to coherently recognized who is friend (common interests) and foe (benefitting from the cannibalization of american society).

Marxist blather.

That's why you're so persuasive I guess, you really dissect things. Ever read Marx? Sure doesn't sound like you've bothered to go beyond second hand bs.

Yes, I do read Marx. I'm not going to spend an hour dissecting 1000 words of pure Marxist propaganda.

 

[Dale Smith]

"I got over, fuck everyone else". You know, the stuff Jesus was down with.

Jesus is just a way to beat death. His teachings don't matter to them.

They wrung quite a bit out of Manifest Destiny, and still try to, we call it "exceptionalism" now.

What makes this place an exception, they want to do away with. People being treated as equals upsets them, they are no longer on top.

"they"? Do you mean the queers, women, minorities that get special consideration? Sounds kinda racist to me. Leftarrds without wedge issues are empty shells.

I mean white assholes, like those here.

They are only too happy to end what's good here.

Wow, how liberal and racist of you. It's not exactly a secret that leftards are the most clueless of all factions when it comes to what the problems of this country and the world actually are. Being that I lived in a section of Detroit where I was a minority, 99 percent of all my social interactions were with with black folks. People of modest means living paycheck to paycheck but they knew the hidden hand of power that is oppressing all of us....it's common knowledge to them.....white folks? Not so much...they always think the fixes to their corporate "gubermint" is just one election cycle away. Anyone that is over 40 years old really doesn't have an excuse for being so fucking stupid and blind to the fact that the problems we have will never be solved by having corporate officers disguised as "leaders" selected/elected for us. Without wedge issues like race, religion, political, gender, "gender-confusion" and class warfare, we, as a people, might have gotten it right by now.

What is so ironic about America is that the very same oligarchs that liberals claim to have such disdain for are actually the ones that have used libs and leftards like a cheap crack whore in their attempt to merge us into a one world, communist totalitarian society. Why is that? Because leftards and their masters, the Fabian socialists sell only fear and divisiveness. Their big tent of (snicker) "ideas" has no room for free thinkers or individual rights unless it serves the greater good of the collective. I would slit the throat of a liberal long before I would ever throw my support behind one....and you can etch that in stone.

 

[bripat9643]

Well, I've lived in a total government controlled social society till I was 17. It's called Indian reservation, it is, Was and always will be a total shit hole because of socialism.

It was a total shithole because capitalists stole their land, genocided them into concentration camps, and refused to allow them their own traditinal ways of earning a living. Intentionally, for their own capitalist vision of "progress". These people were in the way and needed to be subjugated.

If you knew anything about Indians, you would know we don't think of it is "our" land. Lol

Yeah, it got took didn't it. Your "Indian", how ya like John Trudell's work, writing, lectures, books? Most folks should know how corrupt it is on reservations, but to put that on socialism is just silly. The govt plan was to make those folks dependent. It was intentional. Not some socialist revolution.

Reservations have been under the total control of the federal government therefore the social society produced = utter failure.

Reservations have been under the total control of the government of a capitalist society that deemed them disposable in the rabid search for linear profit margin growth to infinity. I don't believe you're "Indian". I do believe we all have a pretty fair shot at becoming the new"Indian" if we fail to challenge the same beast that slaghtered them. Good day to you sir.

"Under control of capitalist society" means they were under government control - which means they are socialist.

 

[Rustic]

Lucy? Are you there?

Lucy? Are you there?

Ok, well, anyway, like I was saying before you joined in:

I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what some (perhaps you?) advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on getting by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do isactas if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

On Bill Clinton' watch; the FCC was deregulated, mass incarceration shot way up and Hilary made some snide reference to black kids caught up in the system as super predators, various global trade agreements, and the welfare reform biz at a time when 70% of the recipients were children.

Over half of all discretionary spending goes to the military and we continue to be the biggest military arms dealers on the planet. Often they get turned back on us, but hey, it's good for business. We can't even really figure out exactly what we spend on empire, a lot of it gets hidden.

If one looks at the rest of the developed industrial countries on the planet, the vast majority of them invest back into society regarding healthcare and education. All this talk of being globally competitive, requires an educated population. Expanding public education for the masses to include a college education keeps us competitive - it's an investment in society. Instead we've turned it into a for profit industry and turn kids whose parents can't pay for college into debt peons.

And how exactly does leaving worker healthcare on the backs of American employers (for however much longer that lasts, they're wiggling more and more out of that) make those employers competitive with employers in nations with single payer healthcare programs that have better healthcare outcomes at less cost?

For the most expensive healthcare system on the planet, also the system in which costs are climbing most aggressively on the planet, we enjoy these WHO ratings; 39th in infant mortality, 43rd in adult female mortality, 42nd in adult male mortality, 46th in life expectancy.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, I don't think we have a healthy society, and I don't see an inflection point in this 5-6 decadeish long trajectory. Further more from a political system point of view, I don't think "either" side has any intention of doing anything about it - which is to say, this shit works for them. There will not be a top down resolution, it's on us, all of us. The "leftist" vs "rightist" bullshit is just that, bullshit, right where they system wants us all. Unaware of the bigger picture, reacting emotionally from institutional imprinting, and totally unable to coherently recognized who is friend (common interests) and foe (benefitting from the cannibalization of american society).

Marxist blather.

That's why you're so persuasive I guess, you really dissect things. Ever read Marx? Sure doesn't sound like you've bothered to go beyond second hand bs.

All you need to know about Marx -

 

[Dale Smith]

"I got over, fuck everyone else". You know, the stuff Jesus was down with.

Jesus is just a way to beat death. His teachings don't matter to them.

They wrung quite a bit out of Manifest Destiny, and still try to, we call it "exceptionalism" now.

What makes this place an exception, they want to do away with. People being treated as equals upsets them, they are no longer on top.

"they"? Do you mean the queers, women, minorities that get special consideration? Sounds kinda racist to me. Leftarrds without wedge issues are empty shells.

right, Leftarrds, when concepts are too tough to get into.

What concepts would those be? You are dealing with someone that is on the same intellectual level as you are (if not more so) that understands what is really going on. As much as I despise the neocon faction that sold out to the banking oligarchs, the repub party held out decades longer than the demcrat party that was hijacked by the Fabian socialists starting in the 1930's and protected the communist factions that had been allowed to infiltrate the highest levels of "gubermint" with not only no resistance but with aid them...fuck, that's a historical fucking fact and it's not even up for debate if you have a reading ability above that if the 10th grade.