The Problem with Socialism

[bripat9643]

All the flaws in the American system are do to socialism, exclusively...

But of course. This is like arguing over religion for some of you. You are simply belivers, so you don't need to think.

I've lived under a socialist society, have you?

Lived and worked in Europe, yeah. Blended socialist/capitalist society like america is.

Well, I've lived in a total government controlled social society till I was 17. It's called Indian reservation, it is, Was and always will be a total shit hole because of socialism.

It was a total shithole because capitalists stole their land, genocided them into concentration camps, and refused to allow them their own traditinal ways of earning a living. Intentionally, for their own capitalist vision of "progress". These people were in the way and needed to be subjugated.

Chasing free ranging buffalo across the great plains is no longer an option for choice of lifestyles.

 

[Rustic]

The fucked up thing is, progressives want to force socialism on people that want nothing to do with it... Millions of Americans know socialism can never help them in anyway, that's why they want no part of it.

Yeah, we never go into other countries and force our shit on others.

Deflection noted

 

[bripat9643]

I don't do safe spaces. There are no such things.

Well yeah, on accounta they made 'em all gun free zones.

Yes, the gun-free zones....the places that all the lunatics go to when they want to commit the next gun massacre on innocent people....because they know in a gun-free zone NOBODY is going to be able to prevent the massacre because hey guns aren't allowed, thanks to the Leftist bed wetters.

America is alegedly a killng free zone, clearly that hasn't worked either. We should let citizens kill if they know they're in the right. The only way to stop a bad killer is with a good killer.

Gun free zones are the killing zones.

The last I checked, murder is still against the law.

Hasn't stopped murder has it.. Just like people say gun free zones don't stop shootings so there. Weird argument that.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is.

 

[Fenton Lum]

But of course. This is like arguing over religion for some of you. You are simply belivers, so you don't need to think.

I've lived under a socialist society, have you?

Lived and worked in Europe, yeah. Blended socialist/capitalist society like america is.

Well, I've lived in a total government controlled social society till I was 17. It's called Indian reservation, it is, Was and always will be a total shit hole because of socialism.

It was a total shithole because capitalists stole their land, genocided them into concentration camps, and refused to allow them their own traditinal ways of earning a living. Intentionally, for their own capitalist vision of "progress". These people were in the way and needed to be subjugated.

If you knew anything about Indians, you would know we don't think of it is "our" land. Lol

Yeah, it got took didn't it. You're "Indian", how ya like John Trudell's work, writing, lectures, books? Most folks should know how corrupt it is on reservations, but to put that on socialism is just silly. The govt plan was to make those folks dependent. It was intentional. Not some socialist revolution.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes it's worked by indoctrinating children in the Political Correctness insanity and other Leftist nonsense, thanks to the Leftist Teachers Unions.

Which is why it's best to have children educated in Private Schools.

Segregation on the other hand is terrific. Homs school your spawn, no one cares.

"Homs school your spawn,"

Not the greatest idea to be educating children in Homs.

You got it shoog, but you couldn't defend it and had to deflect.

Defend WHAT exactly?

Come on, you're not that thick, there's a thread and an attempt at a conversation here and all you did was jump in with your "leftists" this-n-that shit. So yeah, when that;s how you come in, it's gonna fly back at ya. Wanna reset?

Damn, let me fix that for you ---

So yeah, when that's how you come in, it's gonna fly back at ya. Wanna reset?

You've been throwing around plenty of insults yourself, douche bag.

 

[Fenton Lum]

The fucked up thing is, progressives want to force socialism on people that want nothing to do with it... Millions of Americans know socialism can never help them in anyway, that's why they want no part of it.

Yeah, we never go into other countries and force our shit on others.

Deflection noted

Sorry your posts are just becoming nonsense jibberish.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Segregation on the other hand is terrific. Homs school your spawn, no one cares.

"Homs school your spawn,"

Not the greatest idea to be educating children in Homs.

You got it shoog, but you couldn't defend it and had to deflect.

Defend WHAT exactly?

Come on, you're not that thick, there's a thread and an attempt at a conversation here and all you did was jump in with your "leftists" this-n-that shit. So yeah, when that;s how you come in, it's gonna fly back at ya. Wanna reset?

Damn, let me fix that for you ---

So yeah, when that's how you come in, it's gonna fly back at ya. Wanna reset?

You've been throwing around plenty of insults yourself, douche bag.

douche bag? My my.

 

[bripat9643]

I've lived under a socialist society, have you?

Lived and worked in Europe, yeah. Blended socialist/capitalist society like america is.

Well, I've lived in a total government controlled social society till I was 17. It's called Indian reservation, it is, Was and always will be a total shit hole because of socialism.

It was a total shithole because capitalists stole their land, genocided them into concentration camps, and refused to allow them their own traditinal ways of earning a living. Intentionally, for their own capitalist vision of "progress". These people were in the way and needed to be subjugated.

If you knew anything about Indians, you would know we don't think of it is "our" land. Lol

Yeah, it got took didn't it. Your "Indian", how ya like John Trudell's work, writing, lectures, books? Most folks should know how corrupt it is on reservations, but to put that on socialism is just silly. The govt plan was to make those folks dependent. It was intentional. Not some socialist revolution.

Indian reservations are managed almost on a purely socialist basis. The land is all communally owned.

 

[bripat9643]

Lucy? Are you there?

Lucy? Are you there?

Ok, well, anyway, like I was saying before you joined in:

I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what some (perhaps you?) advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on getting by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do isactas if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

On Bill Clinton' watch; the FCC was deregulated, mass incarceration shot way up and Hilary made some snide reference to black kids caught up in the system as super predators, various global trade agreements, and the welfare reform biz at a time when 70% of the recipients were children.

Over half of all discretionary spending goes to the military and we continue to be the biggest military arms dealers on the planet. Often they get turned back on us, but hey, it's good for business. We can't even really figure out exactly what we spend on empire, a lot of it gets hidden.

If one looks at the rest of the developed industrial countries on the planet, the vast majority of them invest back into society regarding healthcare and education. All this talk of being globally competitive, requires an educated population. Expanding public education for the masses to include a college education keeps us competitive - it's an investment in society. Instead we've turned it into a for profit industry and turn kids whose parents can't pay for college into debt peons.

And how exactly does leaving worker healthcare on the backs of American employers (for however much longer that lasts, they're wiggling more and more out of that) make those employers competitive with employers in nations with single payer healthcare programs that have better healthcare outcomes at less cost?

For the most expensive healthcare system on the planet, also the system in which costs are climbing most aggressively on the planet, we enjoy these WHO ratings; 39th in infant mortality, 43rd in adult female mortality, 42nd in adult male mortality, 46th in life expectancy.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, I don't think we have a healthy society, and I don't see an inflection point in this 5-6 decadeish long trajectory. Further more from a political system point of view, I don't think "either" side has any intention of doing anything about it - which is to say, this shit works for them. There will not be a top down resolution, it's on us, all of us. The "leftist" vs "rightist" bullshit is just that, bullshit, right where they system wants us all. Unaware of the bigger picture, reacting emotionally from institutional imprinting, and totally unable to coherently recognized who is friend (common interests) and foe (benefitting from the cannibalization of american society).

Marxist blather.

 

[Dale Smith]

Socialism vs. capitalism: Which is the moral system?

What's moral about paying people as little as possible, if you can get away with it?

What was moral about using child labor, even chaining them to the machines they worked on?

"I got over, fuck everyone else". You know, the stuff Jesus was down with.

Jesus is just a way to beat death. His teachings don't matter to them.

They wrung quite a bit out of Manifest Destiny, and still try to, we call it "exceptionalism" now.

What makes this place an exception, they want to do away with. People being treated as equals upsets them, they are no longer on top.

"they"? Do you mean the queers, women, minorities that get special consideration? Sounds kinda racist to me. Leftarrds without wedge issues are empty shells.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Well yeah, on accounta they made 'em all gun free zones.

Yes, the gun-free zones....the places that all the lunatics go to when they want to commit the next gun massacre on innocent people....because they know in a gun-free zone NOBODY is going to be able to prevent the massacre because hey guns aren't allowed, thanks to the Leftist bed wetters.

America is alegedly a killng free zone, clearly that hasn't worked either. We should let citizens kill if they know they're in the right. The only way to stop a bad killer is with a good killer.

Gun free zones are the killing zones.

The last I checked, murder is still against the law.

Hasn't stopped murder has it.. Just like people say gun free zones don't stop shootings so there. Weird argument that.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is.

Yes, the gun-free zones....the places that all the lunatics go to when they want to commit the next gun massacre on innocent people....because they know in a gun-free zone NOBODY is going to be able to prevent the massacre because hey guns aren't allowed, thanks to the Leftist bed wetters.

My point is that's equally silly, nothing more.

 

[bripat9643]

This book should be required reading in the p-schools, but we all know it won't.

From the author of 'The Real Lincoln'...one of the greatest history books ever written. It should also be required reading for all Americans, but we all know it won't.

One thing Thomas DiLorenzo knows very well is that approximately one out of every ten thousand Americans is capable of engaging in an intelligent discussion of socialism. The truth is even well-educated political scholars engage in strenuous debate over what exactly constitutes the truest and most viable form of socialism.

Unfortunately the vast majority of contemporary Americans have been convinced, largely by persistent right-wing propaganda, that socialism is just another word for what in fact is communism. But the fact is socialism is to communism what democracy is to anarchy. Both are extreme comparisons which are rooted in sheer political ignorance.

Remember when "socialism" was a dirty word?

Socialism was made a "dirty word" in the 1950s by the ravings of a ruthless political opportunist, Senator Joseph McCarthy, who managed to achieve prominence by exploiting the political ignorance of the average American. He did this by repetitiously implanting the notion that the U.S. had been infiltrated by communists and we were in danger of being enslaved by the likes of Joseph Stalin. The tragedy of this comedy is the percentage of Americans who actually believed what this opportunistic demagogue was telling them.

Now students at America's elite universities are parroting socialist talking points and "sure-thing" Hillary Clinton is struggling to win the Democratic nomination against a 74-year-old avowed socialist who promises to make the nation more like Europe. What's happened? Do Americans need a reminder about the dangers of socialist ideology and practices?

The reason students at elite universities are "parroting" socialist principles is Americans at large have outgrown the kind of raw political ignorance that served the interests of the McCarthyites of the '50s and have a more intelligent understanding of what socialism is and how certain socialist policies, when applied to regulating our capitalist system, will be beneficial to the vast majority of the common People.

Those who still regard the very word, socialism, with negative connotation should understand that some of the most substantially beneficial components of America's social structure are Social Security, Medicare and Public Primary Education. These are socialist policies.

Try to imagine what America would be like without them.

Thomas DiLorenzo, economics professor and senior fellow at the Ludwig von Mises Institute, deconstructs the retrograde ideology that has suddenly become disturbingly hip in The Problem with Socialism.

The gimmick in Prof. DiLorenzo's presentation is its effort to convey the impression that because Bernie Sanders has declared himself a socialist his ambition is to transform America into a socialist nation. But anyone with a basic understanding of politics and world history knows the only nations which have ever adopted an extreme form of socialism (communism) are those nations whose economies had been totally ruined by prolonged war or lack of resources (e.g., Russia, China, etc).

The U.S. is the diametric opposite of any such consideration. But this doesn't mean our highly successful capitalist system is not in need of certain socialist-oriented regulations to prevent the kind of thing we see happening in the emergence of the economic One Percent, which threatens to eradicate the American Middle Class.

Too much idiocy for me to deal with in one post.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, the gun-free zones....the places that all the lunatics go to when they want to commit the next gun massacre on innocent people....because they know in a gun-free zone NOBODY is going to be able to prevent the massacre because hey guns aren't allowed, thanks to the Leftist bed wetters.

America is alegedly a killng free zone, clearly that hasn't worked either. We should let citizens kill if they know they're in the right. The only way to stop a bad killer is with a good killer.

Gun free zones are the killing zones.

The last I checked, murder is still against the law.

Hasn't stopped murder has it.. Just like people say gun free zones don't stop shootings so there. Weird argument that.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is.

Yes, the gun-free zones....the places that all the lunatics go to when they want to commit the next gun massacre on innocent people....because they know in a gun-free zone NOBODY is going to be able to prevent the massacre because hey guns aren't allowed, thanks to the Leftist bed wetters.

My point is that's equally silly, nothing more.

What's silly about it?

 

[Fenton Lum]

Lucy? Are you there?

Lucy? Are you there?

Ok, well, anyway, like I was saying before you joined in:

I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what some (perhaps you?) advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on getting by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do isactas if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

On Bill Clinton' watch; the FCC was deregulated, mass incarceration shot way up and Hilary made some snide reference to black kids caught up in the system as super predators, various global trade agreements, and the welfare reform biz at a time when 70% of the recipients were children.

Over half of all discretionary spending goes to the military and we continue to be the biggest military arms dealers on the planet. Often they get turned back on us, but hey, it's good for business. We can't even really figure out exactly what we spend on empire, a lot of it gets hidden.

If one looks at the rest of the developed industrial countries on the planet, the vast majority of them invest back into society regarding healthcare and education. All this talk of being globally competitive, requires an educated population. Expanding public education for the masses to include a college education keeps us competitive - it's an investment in society. Instead we've turned it into a for profit industry and turn kids whose parents can't pay for college into debt peons.

And how exactly does leaving worker healthcare on the backs of American employers (for however much longer that lasts, they're wiggling more and more out of that) make those employers competitive with employers in nations with single payer healthcare programs that have better healthcare outcomes at less cost?

For the most expensive healthcare system on the planet, also the system in which costs are climbing most aggressively on the planet, we enjoy these WHO ratings; 39th in infant mortality, 43rd in adult female mortality, 42nd in adult male mortality, 46th in life expectancy.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, I don't think we have a healthy society, and I don't see an inflection point in this 5-6 decadeish long trajectory. Further more from a political system point of view, I don't think "either" side has any intention of doing anything about it - which is to say, this shit works for them. There will not be a top down resolution, it's on us, all of us. The "leftist" vs "rightist" bullshit is just that, bullshit, right where they system wants us all. Unaware of the bigger picture, reacting emotionally from institutional imprinting, and totally unable to coherently recognized who is friend (common interests) and foe (benefitting from the cannibalization of american society).

Marxist blather.

That's why you're so persuasive I guess, you really dissect things. Ever read Marx? Sure doesn't sound like you've bothered to go beyond second hand bs.

 

[Jack4jill]

What's moral about paying people as little as possible, if you can get away with it?

What was moral about using child labor, even chaining them to the machines they worked on?

"I got over, fuck everyone else". You know, the stuff Jesus was down with.

Jesus is just a way to beat death. His teachings don't matter to them.

They wrung quite a bit out of Manifest Destiny, and still try to, we call it "exceptionalism" now.

What makes this place an exception, they want to do away with. People being treated as equals upsets them, they are no longer on top.

"they"? Do you mean the queers, women, minorities that get special consideration? Sounds kinda racist to me. Leftarrds without wedge issues are empty shells.

I mean white assholes, like those here.

They are only too happy to end what's good here.

 

[Fenton Lum]

What's moral about paying people as little as possible, if you can get away with it?

What was moral about using child labor, even chaining them to the machines they worked on?

"I got over, fuck everyone else". You know, the stuff Jesus was down with.

Jesus is just a way to beat death. His teachings don't matter to them.

They wrung quite a bit out of Manifest Destiny, and still try to, we call it "exceptionalism" now.

What makes this place an exception, they want to do away with. People being treated as equals upsets them, they are no longer on top.

"they"? Do you mean the queers, women, minorities that get special consideration? Sounds kinda racist to me. Leftarrds without wedge issues are empty shells.

right, Leftarrds, when concepts are too tough to get into.

 

[Rustic]

I've lived under a socialist society, have you?

Lived and worked in Europe, yeah. Blended socialist/capitalist society like america is.

Well, I've lived in a total government controlled social society till I was 17. It's called Indian reservation, it is, Was and always will be a total shit hole because of socialism.

It was a total shithole because capitalists stole their land, genocided them into concentration camps, and refused to allow them their own traditinal ways of earning a living. Intentionally, for their own capitalist vision of "progress". These people were in the way and needed to be subjugated.

If you knew anything about Indians, you would know we don't think of it is "our" land. Lol

Yeah, it got took didn't it. Your "Indian", how ya like John Trudell's work, writing, lectures, books? Most folks should know how corrupt it is on reservations, but to put that on socialism is just silly. The govt plan was to make those folks dependent. It was intentional. Not some socialist revolution.

Reservations have been under the total control of the federal government therefore the social society produced = utter failure.

 

[bripat9643]

The problem is never in history has it ever worked and for some reason idiots keep trying it

What would you consider Europe?

Going down the shitter...have you been paying attention to Greece, Spain, etc? Socialism starts out great...then the inevitable happens...they run out of other people's money. Same song, same verse every time

Irrelevant.

The trope that socialism does not work is incorrect. There are socialist nations that can and do exist - some of them doing decently well. None of them approach the success that the US has achieved but blankly stating that socialism always fails is not going to move the conversation forward or - the real problem - show why free markets are so much better. It only severs to entrench people in their belief of socialism.

Long term it's never worked. dumbass

You have a blended economy and many "socialist" healthcare systems are kicking your healthcare system's ass. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before "Obamacare", which is not socialist at all given that it was crafted at the Heritage Foundation and then further tweaked by the health insurance and pharma industries..

Socialist healthcare systems aren't kicking our but at all. Western European countries have longer average lifespans because they have much healthier lifestyles, and they aren't inundated by immigrants from third world countries who bring their health problems with them. Girls from Mexico start having babies at ages as young as 13, and that doesn't help our statistics on infant mortality.

 

[Fenton Lum]

America is alegedly a killng free zone, clearly that hasn't worked either. We should let citizens kill if they know they're in the right. The only way to stop a bad killer is with a good killer.

Gun free zones are the killing zones.

The last I checked, murder is still against the law.

Hasn't stopped murder has it.. Just like people say gun free zones don't stop shootings so there. Weird argument that.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is.

Yes, the gun-free zones....the places that all the lunatics go to when they want to commit the next gun massacre on innocent people....because they know in a gun-free zone NOBODY is going to be able to prevent the massacre because hey guns aren't allowed, thanks to the Leftist bed wetters.

My point is that's equally silly, nothing more.

What's silly about it?

I'm not sure I could ever break it down to a hominid of your caliber, take care.

 

[Rustic]

The fucked up thing is, progressives want to force socialism on people that want nothing to do with it... Millions of Americans know socialism can never help them in anyway, that's why they want no part of it.

Yeah, we never go into other countries and force our shit on others.

Deflection noted

Sorry your posts are just becoming nonsense jibberish.

Deflection