The REAL purpose of 2nd Amendment; The no B.S. truth

[DiamondDave]

[

There was also a lot of thoughts and beliefs that were spot on 230 years ago.. and don't be so arrogant to think that all ideas today are better

I think not bleeding people and not owning other people are pretty nifty ideas. So is not letting Joker Holmes buy a gun.

And you are right.. it is not written in stone.. THERE IS AN AMENDMENT PROCESS... and it is the ONLY way to add or subtract power to the federal government... unlike what you and your ilk think

There is also a JUDICIARY that has been given discretion as to how to apply the laws. For instance, most of the common sense gun laws- gun laws that even the NRA supported before Wayne LaFoamy took over - were drafted under the Auspices of US. v. Miller, when after gangsters started mowing down people with Tommy Guns, they realized there were valid needs to limit how much firepower civilians had.






Not a good reason for Joker Holmes to buy a gun. Next.

[
Because government is not there to protect you from you... because like many other TOOLS, it has a purpose...

Yes, it has a PURPOSE in the hands of trained, specialized personnel who have been prepared to show discretion on when to use them. WHich is not George Zimmerman shooting an "asshole" or Joker Holmes shooting up a theatre.

[because you don't want the person in whatever bad situation having less ammo right at hand than they need.... You do not want the burden on the victim... you do not want the advantage to the criminal who is not going to obey the law anyway.. the list goes on

But it's a pretty retarded list. Here's the problem, when you are out there clinging to your gun and your bible.

Most gun deaths are suicides or accidents- about two thirds of them. Of the rest, most are cases of domestic violence. 80% of murder victims are killed by someone they know.

Very, very, very few are legitimate acts of self-defense against a deadly opponent.

And there is the concept of limited Federal government.. a great idea then... and your idea of near limitless power to the fed now.. BAD idea

Show where in the constitution that the Judiciary is granted such power.. and show where another branch is allowed to give that power to the judiciary without an amendment... or where the judiciary is allowed to grant that power unto itself.. we'll be waiting

A weapon or firearm has a purpose as a tool.. whether that person using it be 'well trained' in your subjective view or not

If you are going to commit suicide and you have no firearm.. you will find another way

Many times when a defender has a weapon, it does not even get to the point where the perpetrator tries to continue the incident, or even start it....

Go fuck yourself

 

[Little-Acorn]

If that were true, they would have written it that way.

But they didn't.

It simply says that the right of the people cannot be taken away or restricted. And it provides an explanation why... but makes no conditions on its mandate.

Even if somebody managed to prove that a well-regulated militia were NOT necessary for the security of a free states, the 2nd would still be a command that the right shall not be infringed. Period.

Much to the disappointment of left-wing fanatics.

Thats probably because back then, in this new nation, they couldnt forsee a time when people hated the United States government so much. That they could only imagine supporting it and showing patriotism towards it.

They probably couldn't forsee people wanting to fight against the very government that partly makes this country so great.

A "poorly" or non-regulated militia would just be everybody having guns. And thats it.

The "well regulated" part, meaning it has some standards, referred to a common caliber of ammo, so in times of crisis, the government could arm the people with that standard caliber. The sources used in the book explain that. About how the Revolutionary War showed trouble by the American military trying to supply the citizens 7 different calibers of ammo to fight the British, when one.....or a "well regulated" militia.....would have been far more efficient.

If the Founders had wanted to be sure the citizens had the power to overthrow the government, they would've said "The people shall have the right to own weapons far superior to that of the government; And the government shall not own any weapons that are equal or greater than that of common citizens."

But thats not what they said.

they didn't forsee a government this bloated full of UNtrusting idiots who has made a Career out of sucking off the taxpayer trying to take our freedoms away either...

They foresaw exactly that.

And wrote the 2nd amendment to protect us against it.

 

[chikenwing]

But it's a pretty retarded list. Here's the problem, when you are out there clinging to your gun and your bible.

Most gun deaths are suicides or accidents- about two thirds of them. Of the rest, most are cases of domestic violence. 80% of murder victims are killed by someone they know.

Very, very, very few are legitimate acts of self-defense against a deadly opponent.


Nope not good enough excuse keeping a person from a numerated right. try again,fact it has nothing to do with it. wile your out there clinging to your self and ill informed opinions.

 

[Little-Acorn]

The right of the people as a group, not as individuals, is what is guaranteed not to be infringed.

Where on earth do you get this nonsense?

Your wishful thinking is not "law", and never has been. Thankfully.

 

[JoeB131]

[

And there is the concept of limited Federal government.. a great idea then... and your idea of near limitless power to the fed now.. BAD idea

Quite the contrary, guy. I like breathing clean air. I like drinking clean water. I like knowing the food is fit to eat and medicines won't kill me. I like the fact when a tornado or hurricane hits, we have people ready to respond.

Show where in the constitution that the Judiciary is granted such power.. and show where another branch is allowed to give that power to the judiciary without an amendment... or where the judiciary is allowed to grant that power unto itself.. we'll be waiting

Section III of the constitution. Have fun. Five Justices rule the 2nd is about Militias, you're done. Sorry.

A weapon or firearm has a purpose as a tool.. whether that person using it be 'well trained' in your subjective view or not

Again,32,000 gun deaths, only 200 of them ruled "Justifiable." I'm sure I wouldn't want a tool that is misued 159 out of 160 times it is deployed.

If you are going to commit suicide and you have no firearm.. you will find another way

Actually, usually, you won't. It's why most industrialized countries that have limited firearm ownership have LOWER suciide rates.

Many times when a defender has a weapon, it does not even get to the point where the perpetrator tries to continue the incident, or even start it....

Go fuck yourself

Yeah, right. never happens except in NRA wet dreams.

 

[DiamondDave]

[

And there is the concept of limited Federal government.. a great idea then... and your idea of near limitless power to the fed now.. BAD idea

Quite the contrary, guy. I like breathing clean air. I like drinking clean water. I like knowing the food is fit to eat and medicines won't kill me. I like the fact when a tornado or hurricane hits, we have people ready to respond.

Show where in the constitution that the Judiciary is granted such power.. and show where another branch is allowed to give that power to the judiciary without an amendment... or where the judiciary is allowed to grant that power unto itself.. we'll be waiting

Section III of the constitution. Have fun. Five Justices rule the 2nd is about Militias, you're done. Sorry.




Again,32,000 gun deaths, only 200 of them ruled "Justifiable." I'm sure I wouldn't want a tool that is misued 159 out of 160 times it is deployed.

If you are going to commit suicide and you have no firearm.. you will find another way

Actually, usually, you won't. It's why most industrialized countries that have limited firearm ownership have LOWER suciide rates.

Many times when a defender has a weapon, it does not even get to the point where the perpetrator tries to continue the incident, or even start it....

Go fuck yourself

Yeah, right. never happens except in NRA wet dreams.

So now those not liberal are for dirty water and air?? Are against early warning systems?? Nice leap

Section 1 - Judicial powers
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.
Section 2 - Trial by Jury, Original Jurisdiction, Jury Trials
(The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.) (This section in parentheses is modified by the 11th Amendment.)
In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
Section 3 - Treason Note
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
Nope.. does not grant them the power... nope.. no power to legislate from the bench, create law, grant power to others, interpret anything, or grant power to themselves, or revoke any part of the constitution... nice try though

And a removal of the right for the law abiding will remove criminal or violent gun deaths, have less murders or violent crimes?? Uhhhh, nope

There is no correlation with access to firearms and stopping one from committing suicide... nice try again

You are nothing more than an uneducated, hyper-partisan hack....

 

[JoeB131]

[q

So now those not liberal are for dirty water and air?? Are against early warning systems?? Nice leap

[....

Not a leap at all. Post Reagan, the GOP has fought against any of these things if they cut into profits of big corporations.

Not to mention you liberTARDians, think all those things are things the government shouldn't do.

 

[Wildman]

Yeah, pretty much.

230 years ago, they though bleeding was a legitamate medical treatment and slavery was nifty.

The Constitution isn't written in stone, and they gave us a judiciary to make interpretations that reflect real life.

So can you give me a good reason why Joker Holmes should be able to buy an AR-15 and a 100 round clip?

there ain't no such thing as a "100 round clip" for an AR-15.., trust me, i know, i have had AR-15's since the day they were available to the general public.., also, did you know we civilians had AR-15's before the military had their version, the M16 ........ ???

Actually.. you can get a 100 round drum for the AR... never used one so I don't know about its reliability... but that is neither here nor there....

agreed, a 100 rnd. "DRUM" is not a fucking "clip" as that dumbass liarberal says.., if those dumbasses want to talk guns they better use the proper terminology or i'll fucking neg their asses for being stupid !!

 

[Wildman]

Most gun deaths are suicides or accidents- about two thirds of them. Of the rest, most are cases of domestic violence. 80% of murder victims are killed by someone they know.

Very, very, very few are legitimate acts of self-defense against a deadly opponent.

never heard of a gun dying or committing suicide they may be lost and rust away, but most guns ever made in this country have and still out living their makers/owners.

maybe you meant to say death by a person using a gun.., if so, i can over look your absolute stupidity.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Having read the Federalist Papers, written by the framers of the Constitution, it is clear that the the government was not intending to encourage citizens to arm themselves against a tyranical government. If anything, they were assuming that no standing army would ever be needed in this country, and that the defense of the nation, against domestic and foreign threats, rested permenantly with the militia, and NOT with a standing army. Consequently, the militia must be allowed to be armed, and the government was not going to pay for stocking arsanals for them.

Do you agree that, with the explosion of technology, that proper national defense now MUST have a standing, full time Army that trains in peace time?

If we did not, and Russia or China invaded with their full time military that trains for years and years...........you dont think our citizens could all of a sudden pick up a rifle, learn to fly jets, etc, and fight them off?

We hear all the time about our military reservists not getting enough training. "Militia" in today's world, with all the technology, wouldnt stand a chance.

Nonsense. It's one thing to take a country. It's another thing to hold it.

 

[Pete7469]

One of our founding fathers was legally blown away. This is how our founders felt about our gun rights!

And notice that that particular Found Father was the most conniving Statist among them, whose true intention of persuading the People to ratify the Constitution was to allow him to set up a private Central bank to enslave us all.

Seems to me the statists of those days where still much better men than the bed wetters we deal with today.

 

[Rct_Tsoul]

Well you all need to understand that guns in the hands of the sheeple is just outright BAD.
Militia or not, the guns are there and due to the natural instinct to protect your young & and fight to the death doing so is also there, these 2 factors are dangerous put together.
In this video you will see what would normally be an animal that will back down or run away, but when protecting it's young it over reacts and start an unnecessary fight and even causes severe injury to a predatory animal, as it is only natural to defend your young, the predatory cat and dog are just curious, just want to sniff the fawns genitalia or just FUCK it .............. doesn't mean they are going to kill it just yet, and the predatory animals don't deserve to receive injury to that extent.
[ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEZOmgInmj0&feature=youtube_gdata_player]this is bad[/ame]
Now ............. imagine that deer with a gun .............. that would be really, really, really BAD.
This why guns must be taken away, to restore the sheeple to their natural state of submission.

 

[JoeB131]

there ain't no such thing as a "100 round clip" for an AR-15.., trust me, i know, i have had AR-15's since the day they were available to the general public.., also, did you know we civilians had AR-15's before the military had their version, the M16 ........ ???

Actually.. you can get a 100 round drum for the AR... never used one so I don't know about its reliability... but that is neither here nor there....

agreed, a 100 rnd. "DRUM" is not a fucking "clip" as that dumbass liarberal says.., if those dumbasses want to talk guns they better use the proper terminology or i'll fucking neg their asses for being stupid !!

Frankly, when I was in the service, we used the terms "clips" and "magazines" pretty interchangably.

And do you really think it's smart to neg someone with 1466 Rep points when you only have 128? Because I don't really neg people unless they neg me first, or they say something really racist or stupid.

 

[JoeB131]

Most gun deaths are suicides or accidents- about two thirds of them. Of the rest, most are cases of domestic violence. 80% of murder victims are killed by someone they know.

Very, very, very few are legitimate acts of self-defense against a deadly opponent.

never heard of a gun dying or committing suicide they may be lost and rust away, but most guns ever made in this country have and still out living their makers/owners.

maybe you meant to say death by a person using a gun.., if so, i can over look your absolute stupidity.

I can't be responsible for your lack of English comprehension. Anyone with a second grade education knows exactly what I meant.

Last year, we had 19,500 sucides by gun.
we had 11,101 murders by gun.
we had 800 accidents.

So two thirds of death by gun were accidents or suicide.

Of the 1/3 that were murders, the vast majority of those were domestic arguments where someone decided to settle it with violence. WHich is pretty much why most civilians don't need guns. They do stupid shit.

 

[DiamondDave]

[q

So now those not liberal are for dirty water and air?? Are against early warning systems?? Nice leap

[....

Not a leap at all. Post Reagan, the GOP has fought against any of these things if they cut into profits of big corporations.

Not to mention you liberTARDians, think all those things are things the government shouldn't do.

Huge leap (and like how you ignored the actual amendment posting that showed what you claimed was not true.. we'll just take that as your admitting you were wrong)... being for profits is not being for dirty air and water...

Now... there are many of us with common sense that do not put the fate of a snail or a fish above the livelihood of a farmer or the need for energy

Government should only do what it is constitutionally CHARGED to do.. you want it to do more.. there is an AMENDMENT process.... you don't get to do it because one branch (I.E. the SC) says you can... as stated, the government does not get to simply grant itself new powers, whether it be via decree of itself or via another branch, or whatever

 

[JoeB131]

Huge leap (and like how you ignored the actual amendment posting that showed what you claimed was not true.. we'll just take that as your admitting you were wrong.

Guy, I already proven my point. SCOTUS determines what is and isn't constitutional. Period. End of story. Madison vs. Mayberry. Look it up. Scalia kicks it, Obama appoints his replacement, and the Second Amendment is about well-regulated militias again.

)... being for profits is not being for dirty air and water..

Now... there are many of us with common sense that do not put the fate of a snail or a fish above the livelihood of a farmer or the need for energy

if a species vanishes, that's a bigger deal than if you get to drive your car for an other day or a farmer gets one year of a crop.

Point is, the places where the air is dirty and the water is undrinkable is not where the rich end up living. If we didn't have an EPA and an FDA and a lot of other needed agencies, the rich would get clean stuff, but the rest of us would be fucked.

Government should only do what it is constitutionally CHARGED to do.. you want it to do more.. there is an AMENDMENT process.... you don't get to do it because one branch (I.E. the SC) says you can... as stated, the government does not get to simply grant itself new powers, whether it be via decree of itself or via another branch, or whatever

Actually, it kind of does, which is why you LiberTARDians are constantly whining about the Gold Standard or whatevery Papa Koch tells you to whine about.

 

[DiamondDave]

Huge leap (and like how you ignored the actual amendment posting that showed what you claimed was not true.. we'll just take that as your admitting you were wrong.

Guy, I already proven my point. SCOTUS determines what is and isn't constitutional. Period. End of story. Madison vs. Mayberry. Look it up. Scalia kicks it, Obama appoints his replacement, and the Second Amendment is about well-regulated militias again.

)... being for profits is not being for dirty air and water..

Now... there are many of us with common sense that do not put the fate of a snail or a fish above the livelihood of a farmer or the need for energy

if a species vanishes, that's a bigger deal than if you get to drive your car for an other day or a farmer gets one year of a crop.

Point is, the places where the air is dirty and the water is undrinkable is not where the rich end up living. If we didn't have an EPA and an FDA and a lot of other needed agencies, the rich would get clean stuff, but the rest of us would be fucked.

Government should only do what it is constitutionally CHARGED to do.. you want it to do more.. there is an AMENDMENT process.... you don't get to do it because one branch (I.E. the SC) says you can... as stated, the government does not get to simply grant itself new powers, whether it be via decree of itself or via another branch, or whatever

Actually, it kind of does, which is why you LiberTARDians are constantly whining about the Gold Standard or whatevery Papa Koch tells you to whine about.

The SCOTUS is not constitutionally charged to do any such thing.. the government was never empowered to simply give itself new powers, which is what the SCOTUS did... if they were charged with the power to simply grant new powers, you would be able to directly show it... you have not.. because you know you are wrong.. there is ONE and ONLY ONE way to add or subtract a power, right, or anything else.. and that is the CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

99.9% of all species have vanished.. it is a part of life.. sorry.. we are not here to ensure it never happens again... again, being for profits is not being for dirty water and air.. this is a myth you and your ilk continually put forward...

Actually.. it more than kinda does not... there are continual examples of the government doing more than what it is empowered to do... whether it be food handouts, whether it be enabling rights above the rights listed, whether it be giving out college loans, whether it be forgiving personal debt of citizenry, etc...

And please show where I have supported or even quoted anyone names Koch

 

[JoeB131]

[

The SCOTUS is not constitutionally charged to do any such thing.. the government was never empowered to simply give itself new powers, which is what the SCOTUS did... if they were charged with the power to simply grant new powers, you would be able to directly show it... you have not.. because you know you are wrong.. there is ONE and ONLY ONE way to add or subtract a power, right, or anything else.. and that is the CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Sorry, man. voting rights. abortion. School Prayer ending. Evolution being taught in the schools. These are all things that happened because COURTS have determined them to be find and dandy and constitutional.

[
99.9% of all species have vanished.. it is a part of life.. sorry.. we are not here to ensure it never happens again... again, being for profits is not being for dirty water and air.. this is a myth you and your ilk continually put forward...

Species have not vanished at this rate since the K-T event that killed the dinosaurs.

[
Actually.. it more than kinda does not... there are continual examples of the government doing more than what it is empowered to do... whether it be food handouts, whether it be enabling rights above the rights listed, whether it be giving out college loans, whether it be forgiving personal debt of citizenry, etc...

And please show where I have supported or even quoted anyone names Koch

you are a tool if you know it or not.

And, yeah, I WANT the government to do all those things. Just because the constitution was written by a bunch of slaveholders wanting to maintain their privilage doesn't mean the rest of us have to go along with it.

My preference would be people earn their own food, be able to pay off their own college loans because college is reasonably priced, and pay off their own debts because the Banks aren't allowed to rape them.

But whatever works, man.

What does any of this have to do with my original question...

Which is-
Can you give me ONE GOOD REASON why Joker Holmes should be able to buy a miltiary grade assault rifle with a 100 round magazine?

Without babbling about the intent of the Founding Slave Rapists, is there a universe where that actually makes sense.

 

[martybegan]

Most gun deaths are suicides or accidents- about two thirds of them. Of the rest, most are cases of domestic violence. 80% of murder victims are killed by someone they know.

Very, very, very few are legitimate acts of self-defense against a deadly opponent.

never heard of a gun dying or committing suicide they may be lost and rust away, but most guns ever made in this country have and still out living their makers/owners.

maybe you meant to say death by a person using a gun.., if so, i can over look your absolute stupidity.

I can't be responsible for your lack of English comprehension. Anyone with a second grade education knows exactly what I meant.

Last year, we had 19,500 sucides by gun.
we had 11,101 murders by gun.
we had 800 accidents.

So two thirds of death by gun were accidents or suicide.

Of the 1/3 that were murders, the vast majority of those were domestic arguments where someone decided to settle it with violence. WHich is pretty much why most civilians don't need guns. They do stupid shit.

Most civilians who own guns own them without an issue. Again because of someone elses stupidity I have to be punished.

You can, as usual, go fuck yourself.

 

[martybegan]

[

The SCOTUS is not constitutionally charged to do any such thing.. the government was never empowered to simply give itself new powers, which is what the SCOTUS did... if they were charged with the power to simply grant new powers, you would be able to directly show it... you have not.. because you know you are wrong.. there is ONE and ONLY ONE way to add or subtract a power, right, or anything else.. and that is the CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Sorry, man. voting rights. abortion. School Prayer ending. Evolution being taught in the schools. These are all things that happened because COURTS have determined them to be find and dandy and constitutional.

[
99.9% of all species have vanished.. it is a part of life.. sorry.. we are not here to ensure it never happens again... again, being for profits is not being for dirty water and air.. this is a myth you and your ilk continually put forward...

Species have not vanished at this rate since the K-T event that killed the dinosaurs.

[
Actually.. it more than kinda does not... there are continual examples of the government doing more than what it is empowered to do... whether it be food handouts, whether it be enabling rights above the rights listed, whether it be giving out college loans, whether it be forgiving personal debt of citizenry, etc...

And please show where I have supported or even quoted anyone names Koch

you are a tool if you know it or not.

And, yeah, I WANT the government to do all those things. Just because the constitution was written by a bunch of slaveholders wanting to maintain their privilage doesn't mean the rest of us have to go along with it.

My preference would be people earn their own food, be able to pay off their own college loans because college is reasonably priced, and pay off their own debts because the Banks aren't allowed to rape them.

But whatever works, man.

What does any of this have to do with my original question...

Which is-
Can you give me ONE GOOD REASON why Joker Holmes should be able to buy a miltiary grade assault rifle with a 100 round magazine?

Without babbling about the intent of the Founding Slave Rapists, is there a universe where that actually makes sense.

Just remember JoeB is a facist authoritarian, who has zero issue getting on his knees and sucking government dick.