The right will love this reasoning!

[Stephanie]

We already pay for it either way...

Why expect insurance from the person?

I hope they expect a lot of things on your lives soon, like what size soda's you should be able to buy

none of you deserve to live in a free country

 

[zeke]

We already pay for it either way...

Why expect insurance from the person?

I hope they expect a lot of things on your lives soon, like what size soda's you should be able to buy

none of you deserve to live in a free country

You drink a lot of soda steph? I have read where you repeatedly throw out how upset you are that your government would like you to choose a healthier lifestyle. But steph even if they stopped selling 96 oz. of your favorite sods, you could still just buy the 12 pack and guzzle guzzle. You can still fill your body with sugar and empty calories. YOU just have to open a few more cans. Which will increase your exercise. Between popping the tops of cans and typing, hell you got an exercise program going on. You go girl.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Okay, I am agreeing with you. Government should NOT be allowed to force people to buy insurance. Now, with that said if a person does not buy health insurance and they get seriously ill or have a terrible accident they should just be ignored and allowed to die. Why should you, I or the government pay for their stupidity? Certainly you agree with that argument.
Oh, and about my "spew," I am just giving back to you what you are calling for.
You don't want to force people to buy insurance.
You don't want the government to spend tax money to help people out.
ERGO, let them die if they cannot afford to pay the medical bill. Isn't that the right wing belief.

what the fuck is with the bold lettering?....

Harry, the text on my screen is very small and difficult to read. I make the text larger to make it easier for me to answer. If there is a place in this where it allows you to adjust the text to a smaller font I can still read I will gladly make my font small. Oh, by the way, I have no idea how big my font is on your screen. I will consider any suggestions that make sense. Oh, and I am not using bold. This is bold.

oh ok....the thing you call bold is just a little bit bigger....but hey you got to do what you got to do...thanks for at least explaining....

 

[Katzndogz]

There was a time when very few people had insurance. When I was growing up we didn't have insurance. My appendix burst and I needed emergency surgery. Without insurance and without money we went to a Catholic Charity hospital where I got emergency surgery. Two years ago, my daughter in law's sister got cancer. Without insurance and without money for surgery, chemo and radiation treatment, she went to the City of Hope. She's been cancer free ever since.

No one will be thrown out on the street to die. They will do what they did before insurance. They will go for charity. obama is starting to fine charity health care providers because he wants to put them out of business. They want the poor to be completely without any options other than Big Daddy government.

 

[eagle1462010]

We already pay for it either way...

Why expect insurance from the person?

I hope they expect a lot of things on your lives soon, like what size soda's you should be able to buy

none of you deserve to live in a free country

You drink a lot of soda steph? I have read where you repeatedly throw out how upset you are that your government would like you to choose a healthier lifestyle. But steph even if they stopped selling 96 oz. of your favorite sods, you could still just buy the 12 pack and guzzle guzzle. You can still fill your body with sugar and empty calories. YOU just have to open a few more cans. Which will increase your exercise. Between popping the tops of cans and typing, hell you got an exercise program going on. You go girl.

An alas here lies the problem....................

One person, or group of people telling others what they can or can't do and justify it by saying there are ways around it.

So, if we can drink a case of soda we can avoid the overall law anyway...........

If that is the case, and it is, then what purpose did the original law serve anyway.....

It's all BS.

Freedom is the right to choose one's own path in life. It doesn't matter that others may think their path is wrong. It only matters that the individual should decided and not the gov't.

Freedom is the even the right to be STUPID. Freedom is the right to be Fat. While we may say, HEY MAN maybe you should go on a diet, the Fat man has the right to tell us to take a flying leap.

Simply stated, the Statist have no business telling others how to live.

 

[ron4342]

This is a troll thread based on a strawman concept of epic stupidity.

Let the thread die people.

Go fuck yourself predfan! I am asking a valid question that obviously you are too stupid to answer. Let's see if you can answer the question with some degree of intelligence. I sincerely doubt you will be able to do so.
1) You don't want to force a person to buy insurance. Okay, the person doesn't have to buy insurance.
2) You don't want the government to cover the costs of people who suffer major illness or accident. Okay, the government does not get involved or pay the bill.
3) You don't want the doctors or the hospital to be stiffed.
4) Okay, who do you want to pay the bill if the person has refused to buy insurance. Remember we are speaking about big dollars here. A catastrophic illness or accident can create bills up to $500K. WHO DO YOU WANT TO PAY THE BILL IF THE PERSON HAS NO INSURANCE OR LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY IN THE BANK.

 

[Contumacious]

Here is a thought the right will love. Rather than forcing young people who refuse to buy health insurance to buy insurance, let's pass a law that if a person refuses to insure themselves because of their not wanting to be forced to buy insurance and if they have a serious problem they can not pay for they should be thrown out on the street and allowed to die in the gutter.

Here is a thought the left will love.

Enact Obama hellcare in order to create the ILLUSION that everyone is covered. Then begin to discreetly ration healthcare so that when the folks have a serious problem they will be thrown on the street and allowed to die in the gutter.............in the name of "national security" but of course.

.

.

 

[ron4342]

How about we just leave it up to the people involved to decide what to do in that case? Is letting people think for themselves an alien concept these days?

Not if they end up at the ER and their problem ends up on your bill after the hospital and insurance companies pass those costs on to their policy holders. And THAT is EXACTLY how it works.

You think the Pentagon can inflate the cost of something? Docs and hospitals charge as much as 2000% (not a typo) over the retail, uninsured cost of a Rx drug if you just walked in the phucking pharmacy and bought it with a script.

So you want to force people to pay for a scam because it would be a little cheaper for you.

Do you have a clue as to how much it costs to manufacture a pill?

Have you ever taken a look at the cost of medical equipment?

How do you justify thousands of dollars a day to stay in a hospital room?

If you want affordable health care, let market forces at the health care industry.

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! "... let market forces at the health care industry." Brilliant!!!
In case you haven't noticed market forces HAVE BEEN INVOLVED in the health care business since the founding of this nation. Market forces have allowed medical costs to skyrocket. One serious illness or accident can force a person into bankrupcy thanks to market forces! Costs for medical care are running wild and NOTHING will change that execpt government intervention. Here is an example of your market forces:
"Total health care spending in the United States is expected to reach $4.8 trillion in 2021, up from $2.6 trillion in 2010 and $75 billion in 1970. To put it in context, this means that health care spending will account for nearly 20 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), or one-fifth of the U.S. economy, by 2021."
http://www.aetna.com/health-reform-connection/aetnas-vision/facts-about-costs.html

 

[ron4342]

We already pay for it either way...

Why expect insurance from the person?

I hope they expect a lot of things on your lives soon, like what size soda's you should be able to buy

none of you deserve to live in a free country

Off topic and total waste of time.

 

[Contumacious]

In case you haven't noticed market forces HAVE BEEN INVOLVED in the health care business since the founding of this nation. ]

BULLSHIT.

Healthcare has been REGULATED since the 1840's by the States as dictated to them by the AMA.

recheck your premises.


To start with, the American Medical Association (AMA) has had a government-granted monopoly on the healthcare system for over 100 years. It has intentionally restricted the number of doctors allowed to practice medicine so as to raise physician incomes artificially. The primary way it does this is by using the coercive power of the state to restrict the number of approved medical schools in operation. After the AMA created its Council on Medical Education in 1904, state medical boards complied with the AMA's recommendation to close down medical schools."

.

.

 

[ron4342]

There was a time when very few people had insurance. When I was growing up we didn't have insurance. My appendix burst and I needed emergency surgery. Without insurance and without money we went to a Catholic Charity hospital where I got emergency surgery. Two years ago, my daughter in law's sister got cancer. Without insurance and without money for surgery, chemo and radiation treatment, she went to the City of Hope. She's been cancer free ever since.

No one will be thrown out on the street to die. They will do what they did before insurance. They will go for charity. obama is starting to fine charity health care providers because he wants to put them out of business. They want the poor to be completely without any options other than Big Daddy government.

Obama wants to put the charity hospitals out of business!!! What a load of crap!
It is great that there are places like the City of Hope. But what happens if the number of people who need help exceeds the number of people who can get help? What if people cannot afford to get to City of Hope? What happens to the person if it is a long term illness or disability? Suppose a young man breaks his neck in a skiing accident. He will be paralyzed and need special (and expensive) care for the rest of his life. If he doesn't have insurance or the money to cover the costs, WHO SHOULD PAY THE BILLS.
You know about the huge costs that can occur. They can easily wipe out a family and force them into bankrupcy. Who should pay the bills for a person who is irresponsible and refuses to purchase insurance?

 

[dblack]

There was a time when very few people had insurance. When I was growing up we didn't have insurance. My appendix burst and I needed emergency surgery. Without insurance and without money we went to a Catholic Charity hospital where I got emergency surgery. Two years ago, my daughter in law's sister got cancer. Without insurance and without money for surgery, chemo and radiation treatment, she went to the City of Hope. She's been cancer free ever since.

No one will be thrown out on the street to die. They will do what they did before insurance. They will go for charity. obama is starting to fine charity health care providers because he wants to put them out of business. They want the poor to be completely without any options other than Big Daddy government.

Obama wants to put the charity hospitals out of business!!! What a load of crap!
It is great that there are places like the City of Hope. But what happens if the number of people who need help exceeds the number of people who can get help? What if people cannot afford to get to City of Hope? What happens to the person if it is a long term illness or disability? Suppose a young man breaks his neck in a skiing accident. He will be paralyzed and need special (and expensive) care for the rest of his life. If he doesn't have insurance or the money to cover the costs, WHO SHOULD PAY THE BILLS.

Whoever wants to. No one should be forced to.

 

[ron4342]

"Freedom is the right to choose one's own path in life. It doesn't matter that others may think their path is wrong. It only matters that the individual should decided and not the gov't." the eagle posted.

Well said. If a person does not want to buy insurance they should not be forced to by the government. That said, suppose a person who refuses to buy insurance has a catastrophic illness or accident. Suppose also their medical costs come in around $500K. They can't pay those costs. You don't want the government to pay the bill. The doctors and hospital can not stay in business if they are not paid. If the person was irresponsible and choose not to buy insurance, WHO SHOULD PAY THEIR MEDICAL BILL?
I don't want to pay for someone who refuses to take care of themselves. Aren't you, I, or anyone who pays to cover the person's cost rewarding irresponsible behavior? Do you think that is a good idea?

 

[Contumacious]

If a person does not want to buy insurance they should not be forced to by the government. That said, suppose a person who refuses to buy insurance has a catastrophic illness or accident. Suppose also their medical costs come in around $500K. They can't pay those costs. You don't want the government to pay the bill.

OK Dingle Berry here is what the GOVERNMENT SHOULD DO

1- Stop allowing the AMA to artificially control the amount of doctors and medical schools

2- stop allowing hospitals to control their competition

3- Abolish Medicaid and medicare

4- then get the government the fuck out of the way

5- then the people will be able to afford healthcare

.

 

[ron4342]

In case you haven't noticed market forces HAVE BEEN INVOLVED in the health care business since the founding of this nation. ]

BULLSHIT.

Healthcare has been REGULATED since the 1840's by the States as dictated to them by the AMA.

recheck your premises.


To start with, the American Medical Association (AMA) has had a government-granted monopoly on the healthcare system for over 100 years. It has intentionally restricted the number of doctors allowed to practice medicine so as to raise physician incomes artificially. The primary way it does this is by using the coercive power of the state to restrict the number of approved medical schools in operation. After the AMA created its Council on Medical Education in 1904, state medical boards complied with the AMA's recommendation to close down medical schools."

.

.

EARTH TO CONTUMACIOUS! EARTH TO CONTUMACIOUS! NOT EVERYONE IS ON MEDICARE.
The government may tell people with Medicare what they will pay BUT they cannot tell the doctors or hospitals what they can charge.
Oh, and for your limited information, THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION IS NOT A GOVERNMENT AGENCY. It is a private organization that functions similar to a union. Further, they do not tell doctors or hospitals what they can charge.
contumacious, go and find another thread. You are wasting our time with your ignorant name calling posts.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Not if they end up at the ER and their problem ends up on your bill after the hospital and insurance companies pass those costs on to their policy holders. And THAT is EXACTLY how it works.

You think the Pentagon can inflate the cost of something? Docs and hospitals charge as much as 2000% (not a typo) over the retail, uninsured cost of a Rx drug if you just walked in the phucking pharmacy and bought it with a script.

So you want to force people to pay for a scam because it would be a little cheaper for you.

Do you have a clue as to how much it costs to manufacture a pill?

Have you ever taken a look at the cost of medical equipment?

How do you justify thousands of dollars a day to stay in a hospital room?

If you want affordable health care, let market forces at the health care industry.

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! "... let market forces at the health care industry." Brilliant!!!
In case you haven't noticed market forces HAVE BEEN INVOLVED in the health care business since the founding of this nation. Market forces have allowed medical costs to skyrocket. One serious illness or accident can force a person into bankrupcy thanks to market forces! Costs for medical care are running wild and NOTHING will change that execpt government intervention. Here is an example of your market forces:
"Total health care spending in the United States is expected to reach $4.8 trillion in 2021, up from $2.6 trillion in 2010 and $75 billion in 1970. To put it in context, this means that health care spending will account for nearly 20 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), or one-fifth of the U.S. economy, by 2021."
http://www.aetna.com/health-reform-connection/aetnas-vision/facts-about-costs.html

It is plain to everyone but you, apparently, that the market in health care has been skewed to the point that most people cannot afford it. Left alone, the health care industry would have to deliver an affordable product or go under.

Again, it is obvious to everyone but you, apparently, that the demand for medical care outstrips the supply.

If you think those outrageous prices are caused by free market mechanics, you are a dolt.

Until 50 years ago, everyone could afford medical care in this country.

Why do you think it changed?

The worst thing about socialized medicine is that it lets dolts like you have even the tiniest say about the health care of others.

Think a little.

 

[ron4342]

There was a time when very few people had insurance. When I was growing up we didn't have insurance. My appendix burst and I needed emergency surgery. Without insurance and without money we went to a Catholic Charity hospital where I got emergency surgery. Two years ago, my daughter in law's sister got cancer. Without insurance and without money for surgery, chemo and radiation treatment, she went to the City of Hope. She's been cancer free ever since.

No one will be thrown out on the street to die. They will do what they did before insurance. They will go for charity. obama is starting to fine charity health care providers because he wants to put them out of business. They want the poor to be completely without any options other than Big Daddy government.

Obama wants to put the charity hospitals out of business!!! What a load of crap!
It is great that there are places like the City of Hope. But what happens if the number of people who need help exceeds the number of people who can get help? What if people cannot afford to get to City of Hope? What happens to the person if it is a long term illness or disability? Suppose a young man breaks his neck in a skiing accident. He will be paralyzed and need special (and expensive) care for the rest of his life. If he doesn't have insurance or the money to cover the costs, WHO SHOULD PAY THE BILLS.

Whoever wants to. No one should be forced to.

You are avoiding the question. If the patient or the government doesn't pay the hospital and doctors bills, who should pay?

 

[ron4342]

if a person does not want to buy insurance they should not be forced to by the government. That said, suppose a person who refuses to buy insurance has a catastrophic illness or accident. Suppose also their medical costs come in around $500k. They can't pay those costs. You don't want the government to pay the bill.

ok dingle berry here is what the government should do

1- stop allowing the ama to artificially control the amount of doctors and medical schools

2- stop allowing hospitals to control their competition

3- abolish medicaid and medicare

4- then get the government the fuck out of the way

5- then the people will be able to afford healthcare

.

ignored.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Obama wants to put the charity hospitals out of business!!! What a load of crap!
It is great that there are places like the City of Hope. But what happens if the number of people who need help exceeds the number of people who can get help? What if people cannot afford to get to City of Hope? What happens to the person if it is a long term illness or disability? Suppose a young man breaks his neck in a skiing accident. He will be paralyzed and need special (and expensive) care for the rest of his life. If he doesn't have insurance or the money to cover the costs, WHO SHOULD PAY THE BILLS.

Whoever wants to. No one should be forced to.

You are avoiding the question. If the patient or the government doesn't pay the hospital and doctors bills, who should pay?

Why should anyone who is healthy pay the medical costs of someone who is ill?

In a decent world, doctors and hospitals would care for the poor and people of good will would actually help the process.

But we don't live in a decent world, do we?

The silly argument about hospitals giving emergency care to the poor should end. The fact that we actually had to encode common decency into law is a disgrace.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

if a person does not want to buy insurance they should not be forced to by the government. That said, suppose a person who refuses to buy insurance has a catastrophic illness or accident. Suppose also their medical costs come in around $500k. They can't pay those costs. You don't want the government to pay the bill.

ok dingle berry here is what the government should do

1- stop allowing the ama to artificially control the amount of doctors and medical schools

2- stop allowing hospitals to control their competition

3- abolish medicaid and medicare

4- then get the government the fuck out of the way

5- then the people will be able to afford healthcare

.

ignored.

Yup.

Let's not have a real and lasting solution to the problem.

That would be too simple.