The Solution to Poverty...A Guaranteed Annual Wage?

[georgephillip]

Tea-Party types and Occupiers should be able to agree the US has reached a point where advances in automation have made "...the need for human labor obsolete in many cases."
The Most Serious Issue Facing America and the World US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There is an old idea to this problem that even Dick Nixon and George McGovern agreed to support in their '72 presidential contest, and Dick and George didn't agree on much that year.

Martin King also found the idea workable:

"In 1967, Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'The solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income.' Richard Nixon unsuccessfully tried to pass a version of Friedman’s plan a few years later, and his Democratic opponent in the 1972 presidential election, George McGovern, also suggested a guaranteed annual income."

In 2012 there were 179 million Americans between 21 and 65 (when SS would take over). The poverty line was $11,945. This means giving each American an income equal to the poverty line would cost $2.14 trillion.

Cutting all federal and state benefits for eligible Americans would save about $1 trillion a year.

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income The Atlantic

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Pay teachers a lot more. That'll encourage people to study harder and become teachers. More people wanting to become teachers, the more competetive the hiring process becomes and the better the teachers are. As better teachers are hired and teaching, students will do better as well. And as students do better, they do better in the workforce making mroe money, having more leisure time not having to work as much, and poverty decreases.

And all ya had to do was pay teachers more.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Had a psych prof in my sophomore year who was so good, me a horrible note-taker got a 'B' All because the things he taught were put in such an illustrative way it was much easier to remember and understand. In stark contrast to teachers who sound like they wanna kill themselves (or their students) with their droning monotones and regurgitated lesson.

 

[Jomama]

Teacher unions won't allow higher pay because it comes with accountability. I'm all for both sides of that equation.

The minimum income is a fascinating idea and makes sense in a lot of ways. It may very well face stiff opposition from entrenched groups like the pre-filled-out federal tax form idea faces opposition from accounting groups.

 

[georgephillip]

The minimum income is a fascinating idea and makes sense in a lot of ways. It may very well face stiff opposition from entrenched groups like the pre-filled-out federal tax form idea faces opposition from accounting groups

Both major parties in the US have found some good reasons for questioning the idea, but, as more and more Americans find their labor replaced by the machine, society will have to decide if the current economic system adequately distributes the spoils of automation.

"Naturally, the idea is not without flaws. Some conservative critics contend a guaranteed income might create a society of layabouts by establishing a disincentive to work (although the jury is out).

"Others wonder which immigrants would be eligible and when.

"But the most common conservative counterargument is that a guaranteed income would destroy the progress against dependency and poverty effected by the welfare-to-work reforms of the last two decades. (Whether that progress was real, or dependent on the broader economy, is a debate of its own.)

"Many liberal wonks are excited by the idea, but Democratic politicians are usually scared off by the political cost of advocating a new, large-scale redistribution or by the problems with scrapping existing welfare programs.

"After all, as Derek Thompson explains, Social Security works pretty well.

"When Democratic Representative Bob Filner, since disgraced, proposed a guaranteed income on a very small scale in 2006, he picked up only one cosponsor."

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income The Atlantic

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The solution to poverty - for every dollar spent on defense, two dollars have to be spent on infrastructure, two dollars on scientific research (medicine, technology, etc.,) one dollar on education, three dollars on the arts, and 5 dollars on entitlements.

In other words, quit spending money as if Dr. Evil and planning to kidnap everyone on Earth, hold them for ransom while taking over the world.

 

[georgephillip]

The solution to poverty - for every dollar spent on defense, two dollars have to be spent on infrastructure, two dollars on scientific research (medicine, technology, etc.,) one dollar on education, three dollars on the arts, and 5 dollars on entitlements.

There are some in the Pentagon calling climate change a national security issue. If so, rebuilding a crumbling infrastructure could provide millions of green jobs and a New Deal 2.0. It could initiate a sea change where national defense becomes a non-profit enterprise, and corrupt defense contractors become an endangered species.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The solution to poverty - for every dollar spent on defense, two dollars have to be spent on infrastructure, two dollars on scientific research (medicine, technology, etc.,) one dollar on education, three dollars on the arts, and 5 dollars on entitlements.

There are some in the Pentagon calling climate change a national security issue. If so, rebuilding a crumbling infrastructure could provide millions of green jobs and a New Deal 2.0. It could initiate a sea change where national defense becomes a non-profit enterprise, and corrupt defense contractors become an endangered species.

It is a national security issue. Both directly, and indirectly. The direct effect is obvious. The indirect is as countries suffer the effects of rising seas, crop failures, droughts, famine, etc. they'll look to military solutions.

 

[kaz]

Pay teachers a lot more. That'll encourage people to study harder and become teachers. More people wanting to become teachers, the more competetive the hiring process becomes and the better the teachers are. As better teachers are hired and teaching, students will do better as well. And as students do better, they do better in the workforce making mroe money, having more leisure time not having to work as much, and poverty decreases.

And all ya had to do was pay teachers more.

You obviously have never hired people

 

[kaz]

Tea-Party types and Occupiers should be able to agree the US has reached a point where advances in automation have made "...the need for human labor obsolete in many cases."
The Most Serious Issue Facing America and the World US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There is an old idea to this problem that even Dick Nixon and George McGovern agreed to support in their '72 presidential contest, and Dick and George didn't agree on much that year.

Martin King also found the idea workable:

"In 1967, Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'The solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income.' Richard Nixon unsuccessfully tried to pass a version of Friedman’s plan a few years later, and his Democratic opponent in the 1972 presidential election, George McGovern, also suggested a guaranteed annual income."

In 2012 there were 179 million Americans between 21 and 65 (when SS would take over). The poverty line was $11,945. This means giving each American an income equal to the poverty line would cost $2.14 trillion.

Cutting all federal and state benefits for eligible Americans would save about $1 trillion a year.

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income The Atlantic

If you want lots and lots of poor people, your plan will do it

 

[Moonglow]

The income idea is nice, the hard part is keeping the cost of living down...

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income The Atlantic

Tea-Party types and Occupiers should be able to agree the US has reached a point where advances in automation have made "...the need for human labor obsolete in many cases."
The Most Serious Issue Facing America and the World US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There is an old idea to this problem that even Dick Nixon and George McGovern agreed to support in their '72 presidential contest, and Dick and George didn't agree on much that year.

Martin King also found the idea workable:

"In 1967, Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'The solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income.' Richard Nixon unsuccessfully tried to pass a version of Friedman’s plan a few years later, and his Democratic opponent in the 1972 presidential election, George McGovern, also suggested a guaranteed annual income."

In 2012 there were 179 million Americans between 21 and 65 (when SS would take over). The poverty line was $11,945. This means giving each American an income equal to the poverty line would cost $2.14 trillion.

Cutting all federal and state benefits for eligible Americans would save about $1 trillion a year.

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income The Atlantic

a good idea to consolidate all local state and Federal personal bailout programs but liberals would oppose since they oppose bailouts, especially bailouts that will never be paid back.

 

[georgephillip]

If you want lots and lots of poor people, your plan will do it

Would the plan increase or decrease the number of US homeless?

 

[kaz]

If you want lots and lots of poor people, your plan will do it

Would the plan increase or decrease the number of US homeless?

It would have little effect. Most homeless people are homeless because of mental illness, not the availability of housing. Did you know we have welfare now, Sparky?

But I see your point, if it would get people off the street, we would pay people to not work and wreck our economy for that one statistic. It would be a great argument, even as a libertarian I'd have to cave to that one. Let's end us for the the homeless. But unfortunately as I pointed out, it wouldn't work. So I'll remain a capitalist

 

[georgephillip]

The income idea is nice, the hard part is keeping the cost of living down...

Maybe we would first have to decide on the purpose of our economy?

"1. The first of these is that it is a disguised Government, of which the primary, though admittedly not the only, object is to impose upon the world a system of thought and action.

2. The second alternative has a certain similarity to the first, but is simpler. It assumes that the primary objective of the industrial system is the provision of employment.

3. And the third, which is essentially simpler still, in fact, so simple that it appears entirely unintelligible to the majority, is that the object of the industrial system is merely to provide goods and services"

If the purpose of any economy is to provide goods and services, wouldn't the most efficient examples function with the least amount of employees?

Social credit - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Moonglow]

The income idea is nice, the hard part is keeping the cost of living down...

Maybe we would first have to decide on the purpose of our economy?

"1. The first of these is that it is a disguised Government, of which the primary, though admittedly not the only, object is to impose upon the world a system of thought and action.

2. The second alternative has a certain similarity to the first, but is simpler. It assumes that the primary objective of the industrial system is the provision of employment.

3. And the third, which is essentially simpler still, in fact, so simple that it appears entirely unintelligible to the majority, is that the object of the industrial system is merely to provide goods and services"

If the purpose of any economy is to provide goods and services, wouldn't the most efficient examples function with the least amount of employees?

Social credit - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Thanks to a little human trait called envy, the vast majority could come to terms but not the greedy envy of some...

 

[Moonglow]

If you want lots and lots of poor people, your plan will do it

Would the plan increase or decrease the number of US homeless?

It would have little effect. Most homeless people are homeless because of mental illness, not the availability of housing. Did you know we have welfare now, Sparky?

But I see your point, if it would get people off the street, we would pay people to not work and wreck our economy for that one statistic. It would be a great argument, even as a libertarian I'd have to cave to that one. Let's end us for the the homeless. But unfortunately as I pointed out, it wouldn't work. So I'll remain a capitalist

And to get welfare, one must have a home address...Silly,,, I know...

 

[Mad Scientist]

The Minimum Guaranteed Wage idea will work for the same reason Minimum Wage has worked to provide a good standard of living.

Oh, wait...

 

[georgephillip]

t would have little effect. Most homeless people are homeless because of mental illness, not the availability of housing. Did you know we have welfare now, Sparky?

I have noticed we have welfare, Professor Kaz. I've also had personal experiences with homelessness that's led be to believe the lack of affordable housing prevents many homeless from leaving the streets. Many would bring their "mental illness" under a roof, but they would no longer have to worry about waking in the middle of the night with a stranger looming over them, which does tend to affect mental states.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Minimum Guaranteed Wage idea will work for the same reason Minimum Wage has worked to provide a good standard of living.

Oh, wait...

That was well done!