The truth about D-day. It was BS. Russia had already annihilated germany

[Politico]

You idiot. Now every time someone questions an american history book, it's a conspiracy theory???. THINK

No one is questioning history books. They are questioning the loony theory that Germany not having to divert 40% of their forces to fight a second front. Anyone with any comprehension of how war works knows that. It wasn't until after the invasion when the German Army Group Centre was gutted for the western front that they were finally able (with our help) to break through at Lviv.

So if you want to argue WWII have at it. But expect to lose.

How many german soldiers did the rooskies kill or capture and how many did the americans kill or capture. That's all you need to know.

After throwing 1.5 million soldiers (who were shot if they retreated ) at the depleted lines the Germans lost around 800,000 men in two weeks. Is that the best you have?

 

[dilloduck]

The thing was about Atom Bombs.

They weren't that big of a deal at the time. The Hiroshima bomb has nowhere near the yield of today's devices. We were going far more damage to Japan with conventional bombing. The Japanese STILL thought they could get a negotiated peace that would leave them with some of their gains in Asia.

When the USSR entered the war, that was it. They knew that they either faced surrender to the Americans or being partitioned like Germany.

Obviously, after the war, everyone started to realize what had been let out of the bottle with nukes, but at the time, not so much. It was just another weapon.

You're still speculating. Show me where Russia's advances influenced the decision by Japan's emperor to surrender.

You mean other than the records of the Japanese High Command?

Stalin ? not the Bomb ? made Japan surrender, ending WW2

The impact of the Soviet declaration of war and invasion of Manchuria and Sakhalin Island was quite different, however. Once the Soviet Union had declared war, Stalin could no longer act as a mediator — he was now a belligerent. So the diplomatic option was wiped out by the Soviet move. The effect on the military situation was equally dramatic. Most of Japan’s best troops had been shifted to the southern part of the home islands. Japan’s military had correctly guessed that the likely first target of an American invasion would be the southernmost island of Kyushu. The once proud Kwangtung army in Manchuria, for example, was a shell of its former self because its best units had been shifted away to defend Japan itself. When the Russians invaded Manchuria, they sliced through what had once been an elite army and many Russian units only stopped when they ran out of gas. The Soviet 16th Army — 100,000 strong — launched an invasion of the southern half of Sakhalin Island. Their orders were to mop up Japanese resistance there, and then — within 10 to 14 days — be prepared to invade Hokkaido, the northernmost of Japan’s home islands. The Japanese force tasked with defending Hokkaido, the 5th Area Army, was under strength at two divisions and two brigades, and was in fortified positions on the east side of the island. The Soviet plan of attack called for an invasion of Hokkaido from the west.

a blog ? please

 

[JoeB131]

So you admit you have nothing, then?

Sorry, Russia entering the war prompted Japan to surrender, not Atomic bombs.

 

[Rotagilla]

After throwing 1.5 million soldiers (who were shot if they retreated ) at the depleted lines the Germans lost around 800,000 men in two weeks. Is that the best you have?

Got a link for that "shot if they retreated" part?

 

[dilloduck]

So you admit you have nothing, then?

Sorry, Russia entering the war prompted Japan to surrender, not Atomic bombs.

Dude---it's one's man opinion--not records from the Japanese High Command as promised.

 

[martybegan]

So you admit you have nothing, then?

Sorry, Russia entering the war prompted Japan to surrender, not Atomic bombs.

Then why did they only surrender after the 2nd bomb?

Why did the emperor's surrender broadcast specifically reference the "new and cruel weapon?"

Exactly how were those Russian Divisions going to cross the bodies of water required to get onto the Japanese home islands? I don't recall them having any amphibious capability except for river crossings.

 

[editec]

American INDUSTRY won the war. Without it, the Soviets would have collapsed.

Partially correct

American industry came into play mostly at the beginning of the war, Jarl. MY father and thousand of other merchant marines delivered a lot of that material to the Soviet Union.

However, Russia's war industries in the middle and later part of the war produced staggering amounts of war material.


If you'd like to know just how much the Soviet industries produced this might help:

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/academic/harrison/public/dfc1994postprint.pdf

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Did he do this using his Evil Commie Mind Control Powers?

his spy network. the majority of senior staff at the FDR white house reported directly to Stalin

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

Sooo, ummmm, okay. Exactly how did that influence what Japan did?

Japan attacked us because they wanted to take Southeast Asia after all the European powers were preoccupied fighting Germany. The US was the only power that had a large enough fleet to stop them. Pearl Harbor was supposed to fix that.

Are you really THAT clueless? The Japanese had all of SouthEast Asia without attacking us.

Stalin dreaded the prospect of fighting the Germans AND the Japanese. Remember, your boys purges wiped out the Army Officer Corp and their only effective leadership was to stand behind the frontline troops and shoot them if they fled. In December 1941, the Germans had the Spires of the Kremlin in the field glasses. Had Japan declared war on the USSR, well what fun that would have been. Sigh.

Instead Stalin's spies put the US on a collision course with Japan.

Again, I give Stalin full credit for manipulating his American sock puppet FDR into causing war between US and Japan.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So you admit you have nothing, then?

Sorry, Russia entering the war prompted Japan to surrender, not Atomic bombs.

Joe, really, shut the fuck up.

 

[Bush92]

The Stalinist version of WWII. Too bad the US and Britain didn't throw in with Germany and kick the Russians communist asses.

 

[Bush92]

Those two A-Bombs on Japan convinced them to surrender. If we had dropped a couple on the Soviet Union I wonder how Stalin would of liked that.

 

[Rotagilla]

Those two A-Bombs on Japan convinced them to surrender. If we had dropped a couple on the Soviet Union I wonder how Stalin would of liked that.

I think that, right after importing negroes as slaves, nuking civilians...twice...is probably the worst thing this country has done.

 

[Bush92]

Those two A-Bombs on Japan convinced them to surrender. If we had dropped a couple on the Soviet Union I wonder how Stalin would of liked that.

I think that, right after importing negroes as slaves, nuking civilians...twice...is probably the worst thing this country has done.

If there was no Pearl Harbor attack...would have been no A-Bombs dropped. I think we should of dropped 10 myself.

 

[Rotagilla]

Those two A-Bombs on Japan convinced them to surrender. If we had dropped a couple on the Soviet Union I wonder how Stalin would of liked that.

I think that, right after importing negroes as slaves, nuking civilians...twice...is probably the worst thing this country has done.

If there was no Pearl Harbor attack...would have been no A-Bombs dropped. I think we should of dropped 10 myself.

So for example, if iraq did something REALLY bad with some "material" that they sneaked across our (unprotected) border and caused a LOT of "trouble" in a civilian area like say, n.y. for instance.....it would be ok with you because we attacked baghdad for no good reason?

In other words you're ok with nuking civilians?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Stalinist version of WWII. Too bad the US and Britain didn't throw in with Germany and kick the Russians communist asses.

With US air cover, German industry would have been at full production in 2 weeks.

Once the USSR commanders started telling their leaders how the US Army AirForce was wasting entire Soviet armored divisions, they would have sued for peace and headed back to their original border

 

[Picaro]

American INDUSTRY won the war. Without it, the Soviets would have collapsed.

Partially correct

American industry came into play mostly at the beginning of the war, Jarl. MY father and thousand of other merchant marines delivered a lot of that material to the Soviet Union.

However, Russia's war industries in the middle and later part of the war produced staggering amounts of war material.


If you'd like to know just how much the Soviet industries produced this might help:

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/academic/harrison/public/dfc1994postprint.pdf

I'll add that the Soviet generals at the front much preferred the American made trucks to carry their ammo, fuel, etc. than their own copies of the same models. The T-34, cited by most as the 'best' all-around tank of the war, didn't become 'great' until after the results of an analysis of it by American engineers and testers in 1943 along with suggested improvements in its design were sent back to the Soviet Union in 1943; most of the improvements weren't really put into the production line until 1944. Before then it had lots of problems that crippled it in many situations.

 

[Picaro]

Stalin held back from invading Japan until it was a cinch the Americans had already knocked out Japan's defensive abilities; then they took a few thinly defended islands and hoped for more territorial gains, without doing anything to earn them re defeating Japan. I think some of those islands are still contested over today via diplomatic wrangling.

 

[Bush92]

I think that, right after importing negroes as slaves, nuking civilians...twice...is probably the worst thing this country has done.

If there was no Pearl Harbor attack...would have been no A-Bombs dropped. I think we should of dropped 10 myself.

So for example, if iraq did something REALLY bad with some "material" that they sneaked across our (unprotected) border and caused a LOT of "trouble" in a civilian area like say, n.y. for instance.....it would be ok with you because we attacked baghdad for no good reason?

In other words you're ok with nuking civilians?

Your scenario is off. During WWII...there were no civilians. especially after death toll in Okinawa and the ferocity with which the Japanese would defend their island. Don't compare Iraq to Pearl harbor BTW. As for nukes...I would have blasted the shit out of Tora Bora region when Bin Laden was there back in 2001. I have no problem with civilian deaths. Part of war. 9-11...new type of war for US. Flight 93 civilians won the first battle in the War on Terror and gave their lives to do it. After 9-11 I will guarantee with great certainty that 90% of the Muslim world was smiling inside and had "serves America right" going through their heads. So fuck them too.

 

[hunarcy]

Those two A-Bombs on Japan convinced them to surrender. If we had dropped a couple on the Soviet Union I wonder how Stalin would of liked that.

I think that, right after importing negroes as slaves, nuking civilians...twice...is probably the worst thing this country has done.

It was tough, but it saved Japanese and American lives. An invasion was estimated to cost 1.2 million to 4 million Allied deaths and 5 million to 10 million Japanese deaths.

Preparations for Invasion of Japan | World War II Database

 

[JoeB131]

So you admit you have nothing, then?

Sorry, Russia entering the war prompted Japan to surrender, not Atomic bombs.

Then why did they only surrender after the 2nd bomb?

Why did the emperor's surrender broadcast specifically reference the "new and cruel weapon?"

Because it was actually a cruel weapon? I mean I know we Americans like to lecture other countries, but we are the only country that ever used a nuke on PEOPLE.

Exactly how were those Russian Divisions going to cross the bodies of water required to get onto the Japanese home islands? I don't recall them having any amphibious capability except for river crossings.

Um, how do you think they got soldiers to Salahkin? (That's the Russian Island north of Japan, but Japan owned half of it between 1905 and 1945) They moved them by boat.

The reality was, Japan didn't know how many atom bombs we had, but it was probably a good guess we didn't have that many.

But they did know that the Russians had mopped up the Kwangung army in less than a week, and were heading into Korea.

They wouldn't need a large amphibious force to invade Hokkaido. The Japanese had two divisions against 20 or so for the Russians, and they were deployed on the Opposite side of the island.

You see, The Japanese built their whole war plan on repelling an American invasion coming form the South and East, and they figured it would take months and months to move troops from Europe to the Pacific.

And now they were faced with the prospect of facing battle hardened Red Army Units that had just put Germany down like a dog.

OH, yeah, and then they heard all the wonderful stories of how the Russians raped the shit out of German women. They didn't want their mama-sans getting some of the same.