The truth about D-day. It was BS. Russia had already annihilated germany

[dilloduck]

So you admit you have nothing, then?

Sorry, Russia entering the war prompted Japan to surrender, not Atomic bombs.

Then why did they only surrender after the 2nd bomb?

Why did the emperor's surrender broadcast specifically reference the "new and cruel weapon?"

Because it was actually a cruel weapon? I mean I know we Americans like to lecture other countries, but we are the only country that ever used a nuke on PEOPLE.

Exactly how were those Russian Divisions going to cross the bodies of water required to get onto the Japanese home islands? I don't recall them having any amphibious capability except for river crossings.

Um, how do you think they got soldiers to Salahkin? (That's the Russian Island north of Japan, but Japan owned half of it between 1905 and 1945) They moved them by boat.

The reality was, Japan didn't know how many atom bombs we had, but it was probably a good guess we didn't have that many.

But they did know that the Russians had mopped up the Kwangung army in less than a week, and were heading into Korea.

They wouldn't need a large amphibious force to invade Hokkaido. The Japanese had two divisions against 20 or so for the Russians, and they were deployed on the Opposite side of the island.

You see, The Japanese built their whole war plan on repelling an American invasion coming form the South and East, and they figured it would take months and months to move troops from Europe to the Pacific.

And now they were faced with the prospect of facing battle hardened Red Army Units that had just put Germany down like a dog.

OH, yeah, and then they heard all the wonderful stories of how the Russians raped the shit out of German women. They didn't want their mama-sans getting some of the same.

Please stop speculating--link us to some facts

 

[JoeB131]

[

Are you really THAT clueless? The Japanese had all of SouthEast Asia without attacking us.

No, they didn't. They were in French Indochina. The British still had Malaysia and Burma, the US still had the Philippines (which the Japanese considered a dagger to their throats) and the Dutch still owned Indonesia, under hte control of the Dutch government in exile.

[
Stalin dreaded the prospect of fighting the Germans AND the Japanese. Remember, your boys purges wiped out the Army Officer Corp and their only effective leadership was to stand behind the frontline troops and shoot them if they fled. In December 1941, the Germans had the Spires of the Kremlin in the field glasses. Had Japan declared war on the USSR, well what fun that would have been. Sigh.

You mean you'd have had your dream of living under fascism.... sorry dude, you wouldn't have made it past their eugenics program.

[
Instead Stalin's spies put the US on a collision course with Japan.

Again, I give Stalin full credit for manipulating his American sock puppet FDR into causing war between US and Japan.

Uh, sorry, dude, the thing was, The Japanese did it all on their own.

the only thing FDR did was embargo oil and steel when Japan invaded China and committed horrible attrocities.

Those damned, dirty commie spies made FDR do the decent humanitarian thing?

Hey, "Humanitarian"...look it up. It's not one of those code words for communism.

Geezus, why do I even talk to this freak?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Please stop speculating--link us to some facts

Sorry, guy, I gave you facts. Now you are just being obtuse.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I think that, right after importing negroes as slaves, nuking civilians...twice...is probably the worst thing this country has done.

If there was no Pearl Harbor attack...would have been no A-Bombs dropped. I think we should of dropped 10 myself.

So for example, if iraq did something REALLY bad with some "material" that they sneaked across our (unprotected) border and caused a LOT of "trouble" in a civilian area like say, n.y. for instance.....it would be ok with you because we attacked baghdad for no good reason?

In other words you're ok with nuking civilians?

By the standards of the day, both cities WERE military targets. Hiroshima had comsiderable industry, Nagasaki was the site of Japan's largest torpedo factory.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Those two A-Bombs on Japan convinced them to surrender. If we had dropped a couple on the Soviet Union I wonder how Stalin would of liked that.

I think that, right after importing negroes as slaves, nuking civilians...twice...is probably the worst thing this country has done.

It was tough, but it saved Japanese and American lives. An invasion was estimated to cost 1.2 million to 4 million Allied deaths and 5 million to 10 million Japanese deaths.

Preparations for Invasion of Japan | World War II Database

And that's not even considering that the almost-certain mass famine in the winter of 1945-46. Even WITH American aid, it was a lean winter. Honestly...I would definitely put 5,000,000 Japanese dead as a VERY low estimate.

 

[Jarlaxle]

So you admit you have nothing, then?

Sorry, Russia entering the war prompted Japan to surrender, not Atomic bombs.

Then why did they only surrender after the 2nd bomb?

Why did the emperor's surrender broadcast specifically reference the "new and cruel weapon?"

Because it was actually a cruel weapon? I mean I know we Americans like to lecture other countries, but we are the only country that ever used a nuke on PEOPLE.

Exactly how were those Russian Divisions going to cross the bodies of water required to get onto the Japanese home islands? I don't recall them having any amphibious capability except for river crossings.

Um, how do you think they got soldiers to Salahkin? (That's the Russian Island north of Japan, but Japan owned half of it between 1905 and 1945) They moved them by boat.

The reality was, Japan didn't know how many atom bombs we had, but it was probably a good guess we didn't have that many.

But they did know that the Russians had mopped up the Kwangung army in less than a week, and were heading into Korea.

They wouldn't need a large amphibious force to invade Hokkaido. The Japanese had two divisions against 20 or so for the Russians, and they were deployed on the Opposite side of the island.

You see, The Japanese built their whole war plan on repelling an American invasion coming form the South and East, and they figured it would take months and months to move troops from Europe to the Pacific.

And now they were faced with the prospect of facing battle hardened Red Army Units that had just put Germany down like a dog.

OH, yeah, and then they heard all the wonderful stories of how the Russians raped the shit out of German women. They didn't want their mama-sans getting some of the same.

Which is why Fat Man should have been dropped on the Kremlin.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Those two A-Bombs on Japan convinced them to surrender. If we had dropped a couple on the Soviet Union I wonder how Stalin would of liked that.

We didn't have 4 a-bombs. Just the two we took from the jerries. The manhattan project was a hoax.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
And that's not even considering that the almost-certain mass famine in the winter of 1945-46. Even WITH American aid, it was a lean winter. Honestly...I would definitely put 5,000,000 Japanese dead as a VERY low estimate.

Here we go again with the "humanitarian bombing" talk so beloved by the war-mongers.

 

[Politico]

After throwing 1.5 million soldiers (who were shot if they retreated ) at the depleted lines the Germans lost around 800,000 men in two weeks. Is that the best you have?

Got a link for that "shot if they retreated" part?

Those two A-Bombs on Japan convinced them to surrender. If we had dropped a couple on the Soviet Union I wonder how Stalin would of liked that.

We didn't have 4 a-bombs. Just the two we took from the jerries. The manhattan project was a hoax.

OMG this is getting epic now.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

American INDUSTRY won the war. Without it, the Soviets would have collapsed.

Yes there was lend lease to the soviets, But they built up their our war machine and it was intact and fed their army with food and weapons. Making moronic claims doesn't make them real

Learn some basic history

Some pesky facts

Military production during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I suggest YOU learn facts, With out US production the Soviets would have had no communications wire to control all their artillery, no trucks, no jeeps, no rolling stock no locomotives, not to mention the tanks planes and other commodities we sent them.

 

[Rotagilla]

If there was no Pearl Harbor attack...would have been no A-Bombs dropped. I think we should of dropped 10 myself.

So for example, if iraq did something REALLY bad with some "material" that they sneaked across our (unprotected) border and caused a LOT of "trouble" in a civilian area like say, n.y. for instance.....it would be ok with you because we attacked baghdad for no good reason?

In other words you're ok with nuking civilians?

By the standards of the day, both cities WERE military targets. Hiroshima had comsiderable industry, Nagasaki was the site of Japan's largest torpedo factory.

So in my scenario an iraqi terrorist could do something REALLY BAD in an american city and then say it was a legitimate "military" target because it had industry that supported "imperialism"..or whatever their complaint is...and that would be valid in your estimation?

In other words, to you, nuking civilians is not a war crime if there is any "industry" around them.

 

[Rotagilla]

Your scenario is off. During WWII...there were no civilians. especially after death toll in Okinawa and the ferocity with which the Japanese would defend their island.

There was no need to ever "invade" japan. Don't tell me you really believe that propaganda?

Their army was defeated, their navy was defeated, their air force was defeated and they live on an island with no natural resources necessary to make and maintain a war effort.

They were done.
Set up a blockade and wait them out. They aren't going anywhere and they can't grow enough food to support the population.
A couple months of blockaded ports and they would fold.

Don't compare Iraq to Pearl harbor BTW. As for nukes...I would have blasted the shit out of Tora Bora region when Bin Laden was there back in 2001. I have no problem with civilian deaths. Part of war. 9-11...new type of war for US. Flight 93 civilians won the first battle in the War on Terror and gave their lives to do it. After 9-11 I will guarantee with great certainty that 90% of the Muslim world was smiling inside and had "serves America right" going through their heads. So fuck them too.

So nuking civilians is ok with you. Great.
If someone did it to america for lets say..illegally invading iraq.... it would be ok because you have "no problem with civilian deaths"


Flight 93 was shot down, by the way. Save that propaganda story about civilians winning the first battle..etc..blah..blah..."let's roll"..blah...blah...

 

[dannyboys]

Daily photos from Russian cities | English Russia
Nuff said about russian technology.

 

[Unkotare]

After 9-11 I will guarantee with great certainty that 90% of the Muslim world was smiling inside and had "serves America right" going through their heads.

Upon what do you base this "guarantee"?





At least half this thread should be on the Conspiracy Forum.

 

[Picaro]

For the Peanut Gallery, a decent book on Japan near the end of the war is the one cited here:

Japan and the End of World War II

[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+2]Those who argue that American policy makers recognized that Japan was near surrender when they chose to unleash atomic weapons rest the core of their case on selected excerpts of these diplomatic exchanges [between Japan and the Soviets in the summer of 1945]. The first important defect with this critique is that it simply ignores the fact that there were two streams of decrypted Japanese messages. Military Ultra showed without exception Japan's armed forces girding for Armageddon. If, as American leaders correctly believed, the Imperial Army held the dominant position in Japan, then the Ultra reports carried an unmistakable political import...In face of this evidence, it is fantasy, not history, to believe the end of the war was at hand before the use of the atomic bomb.

[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+2][SIZE=-1] --- Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]​

... a little more at the link.

The review by Daniel Ford here at the Amazon book site here is also worth a read:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Downfall-The-Imperial-Japanese-Empire/dp/067941424X[/ame]

And, an essay on Operation Ketsu-Go:

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/arens/chap4.htm

 

[Bleipriester]

Wasn´t it the Soviet side that urged the West to open that frontier?

 

[dilloduck]

Wasn´t it the Soviet side that urged the West to open that frontier?

Yes Stalin begged for it as early as 1942.

 

[Bleipriester]

Wasn´t it the Soviet side that urged the West to open that frontier?

Yes Stalin begged for it as early as 1942.

The mountains of Russian dead bodies under which he buried the Germans alive don´t give rise to be proud of the victory anyway.

 

[bendog]

Mods...please send this to the Conspiracy Theory forum....Thanks

Not a Conspiracy Theory , the soviets broke the back of the German army in the battle of Stalingrad it's not some Conspiracy Theory but history. D-day was the finish of Germany. Learn some history.

Stalingrad: the turning point of the Second World War - Telegraph

Stalingrad involved more than two million troops and lasted 200 days, and was virtually unprecedented in intensity and ferocity.

The Soviet army also suffered huge losses – 478,741 men dead. Even though many of these lives could have been saved, their tremendous sacrifice was not in vain. The Wehrmacht’s losses at Stalingrad – not just in men, but in supplies of arms and materiel – brought Germany to the brink of a military, political and economic crisis.
The debacle on the banks of the Volga River also left a deep imprint on the Wehrmacht’s morale. The rate of desertion and executions of German servicemen increased markedly after their defeat at Stalingrad.
While German soldiers became less determined and came to fear being outflanked or encircled, some politicians and leading army officers even began plotting against Hitler.
The Red Army’s victory in Stalingrad shook not just Hitler, but his Axis satellites. The pro-Nazi Italian, Romanian, Hungarian and Finnish leaders started looking for a pretext to pull out of the war and ignored Hitler’s orders to send troops to the Eastern Front. From 1943, whole Romanian, Hungarian and Italian units began to surrender to the Red Army, while Japan and Turkey also abandoned plans to declare war on the Soviet Union.
Thus, it was Stalingrad that broke the back of the Wehrmacht and marked the key turning point in favor of the Allies.

I think Speeders is a racist, so I don't respond to him, but the thread's a historical bait and switch. While you're correct the Soviets had broken the Nazi's back by 6-6-44, note the OP conspiracist theory is that the Soviets were marching into Berlin. That's bullshit. The fact is they paused at Warsaw, threatening to make a separate peace with Hitler. The Soviets certainly had no interest in making sure the Nazis didn't control France and the rest of western Europe.

 

[Discombobulated]

I've heard this many times. In russia it's taken for granted that THEY won WW2 and the brits and yanks simply grabbed the glory.

This kind of superficial historic characterization might almost make sense to people who's knowledge is based on pop culture revisionist nonsense.