The Ultimate Tool for Redemption

[CorvusRexus]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

 

[Nutz]

Are you asking because you care or are you just being a pussy Christan basher

 

[Chuckt]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

The punishment isn't for eighty years.

The angels had full knowledge. Why isn't there redemption for angels? Because they knew?
There seems to be redemption for man because man didn't have full knowledge.

You're the judge. Everyone's name was written in the book of life until they were blotted out. You're the judge. What do you think of Jesus? When you judge Jesus you are judging yourself.

 

[CorvusRexus]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

The punishment isn't for eighty years.

The angels had full knowledge. Why isn't there redemption for angels? Because they knew?
There seems to be redemption for man because man didn't have full knowledge.

You're the judge. Everyone's name was written in the book of life until they were blotted out. You're the judge. What do you think of Jesus? When you judge Jesus you are judging yourself.

You misunderstood my point with the eighty years thing. It should read as "the punishment for living a life (about eighty years) full of wrongdoing..."
The angels should have redemption too, if they repented.
What do I think of Jesus? I think that God actually does have power over Jesus, and that the universe would be a much nicer place if Jesus ran it.
But you never gave a clear answer, do you believe that after being sent to Hell, someone who truly repents should be released back into Heaven?

 

[CorvusRexus]

Are you asking because you care or are you just being a pussy Christan basher

I care.

 

[Nutz]

Are you asking because you care or are you just being a pussy Christan basher

I care.

I wish I knew how to answer your question. I'm probably being a bit obtuse, but I don't think I fully understand what you are asking.

 

[Chuckt]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

The punishment isn't for eighty years.

The angels had full knowledge. Why isn't there redemption for angels? Because they knew?
There seems to be redemption for man because man didn't have full knowledge.

You're the judge. Everyone's name was written in the book of life until they were blotted out. You're the judge. What do you think of Jesus? When you judge Jesus you are judging yourself.

You misunderstood my point with the eighty years thing. It should read as "the punishment for living a life (about eighty years) full of wrongdoing..."
The angels should have redemption too, if they repented.
What do I think of Jesus? I think that God actually does have power over Jesus, and that the universe would be a much nicer place if Jesus ran it.
But you never gave a clear answer, do you believe that after being sent to Hell, someone who truly repents should be released back into Heaven?

Repented or cried uncle?

When I was in college, there were few students who treated their fellow students bad because they didn't want to be there. If they didn't want to be there, why would they pay? There were a few but the fact is when you go on to second or third years, there are fewer that didn't want to be there. They wanted to be there so they treated it like they wanted to be there.

Someone who doesn't chose God doesn't want to be with Him in heaven. If they go to hell, do you give someone like Hitler a chance to repent and go to heaven? Do you think that he would want to be in heaven if he didn't want to be there the first time? Why should he be given another chance when he had a chance every day on the face of this earth?

I had my share of bad relationships or girlfriends. If someone dumps you three times, do you take them back a third time? I mean, was your decision not to take the person back a fourth time wise because someone who said, "no" once will come to the same conclusion a second time and a third time? At what point and when do you say that people know what they are doing?

The point is that people are responsible for their actions. I got hit by someone in a parking lot and there wasn't damage but for insurance reasons, I wanted them to at least trade phone numbers. They left while I was figuring out what to do. Why is that? Because they don't care?

What about prisoners or people who have been to jail? In your own personal life, if you knew someone who committed a crime more than once, how many times do you think it would be safe to be around them after they got out of jail multiple times?

I know people who made mistakes. They came out and I like them to a point. At what point do you get scared of them? At what point do you give up?

We can make these decisions but God knows the end from the beginning and God doesn't make mistakes. Every way of God's is just and true.

Security treats people as if they get worse with age. They have to. When you are young, you want to ride off in the sunset on a white horse. When you get older, you want to drive a BMW. Why is that? You sell out.

 

[Avatar4321]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

Who says Eternal Suffering is forever?

 

[Chuckt]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

Who says Eternal Suffering is forever?

The Bible does and I can defend this doctrine because I already have.

 

[DriftingSand]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

Who says Eternal Suffering is forever?

The Bible does and I can defend this doctrine because I already have.

Yes. The Bible is clear that they who are cast into the lake of fire will suffer day and night forever.

Revelation 19:20, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Revelation 20:10, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Matthew 25:41, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

 

[CorvusRexus]

The punishment isn't for eighty years.

The angels had full knowledge. Why isn't there redemption for angels? Because they knew?
There seems to be redemption for man because man didn't have full knowledge.

You're the judge. Everyone's name was written in the book of life until they were blotted out. You're the judge. What do you think of Jesus? When you judge Jesus you are judging yourself.

You misunderstood my point with the eighty years thing. It should read as "the punishment for living a life (about eighty years) full of wrongdoing..."
The angels should have redemption too, if they repented.
What do I think of Jesus? I think that God actually does have power over Jesus, and that the universe would be a much nicer place if Jesus ran it.
But you never gave a clear answer, do you believe that after being sent to Hell, someone who truly repents should be released back into Heaven?

Repented or cried uncle?

When I was in college, there were few students who treated their fellow students bad because they didn't want to be there. If they didn't want to be there, why would they pay? There were a few but the fact is when you go on to second or third years, there are fewer that didn't want to be there. They wanted to be there so they treated it like they wanted to be there.

Someone who doesn't chose God doesn't want to be with Him in heaven. If they go to hell, do you give someone like Hitler a chance to repent and go to heaven? Do you think that he would want to be in heaven if he didn't want to be there the first time? Why should he be given another chance when he had a chance every day on the face of this earth?

I had my share of bad relationships or girlfriends. If someone dumps you three times, do you take them back a third time? I mean, was your decision not to take the person back a fourth time wise because someone who said, "no" once will come to the same conclusion a second time and a third time? At what point and when do you say that people know what they are doing?

The point is that people are responsible for their actions. I got hit by someone in a parking lot and there wasn't damage but for insurance reasons, I wanted them to at least trade phone numbers. They left while I was figuring out what to do. Why is that? Because they don't care?

What about prisoners or people who have been to jail? In your own personal life, if you knew someone who committed a crime more than once, how many times do you think it would be safe to be around them after they got out of jail multiple times?

I know people who made mistakes. They came out and I like them to a point. At what point do you get scared of them? At what point do you give up?

We can make these decisions but God knows the end from the beginning and God doesn't make mistakes. Every way of God's is just and true.

Security treats people as if they get worse with age. They have to. When you are young, you want to ride off in the sunset on a white horse. When you get older, you want to drive a BMW. Why is that? You sell out.

If Someone is sent to Hell and truly repents in their heart, which God should be able to tell, why should they stay there? They have turned to God and repented of their sins! Plus, God supposedly wants all people to be in Heaven with him. Besides, if Hell makes all pain on Earth feel wonderful and amazing in comparison, I'm sure many would realize the error of their ways. What I'm trying to say is, what if Hell id God's last resort to get people to repent?

 

[CorvusRexus]

Who says Eternal Suffering is forever?

The Bible does and I can defend this doctrine because I already have.

Yes. The Bible is clear that they who are cast into the lake of fire will suffer day and night forever.

Revelation 19:20, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Revelation 20:10, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Matthew 25:41, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

You could interpret it as meaning that the devil will be thrown into the pit to be tormented forever, and the flames that burn them are eternal. It never says sinners will be eternally punished, only that Hell will forever exist.

 

[Moonglow]

God tells me to be nice and to say nice things about God...

 

[BreezeWood]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

it is senseless and a glaring example of those who believe the corrupt literature of the Bible rather than reason for the actual truth by adhering to the principles given to them by the Almighty.

.

 

[Nutz]

The Bible does and I can defend this doctrine because I already have.

Yes. The Bible is clear that they who are cast into the lake of fire will suffer day and night forever.

Revelation 19:20, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Revelation 20:10, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Matthew 25:41, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

You could interpret it as meaning that the devil will be thrown into the pit to be tormented forever, and the flames that burn them are eternal. It never says sinners will be eternally punished, only that Hell will forever exist.

I hate feeding my faith to the trolls (not necessarily speaking about you), but the best advice or answer that I can give you that you are jumping to the end when you need to start in the beginning.

 

[Chuckt]

The Bible does and I can defend this doctrine because I already have.

Yes. The Bible is clear that they who are cast into the lake of fire will suffer day and night forever.

Revelation 19:20, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Revelation 20:10, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Matthew 25:41, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

You could interpret it as meaning that the devil will be thrown into the pit to be tormented forever, and the flames that burn them are eternal. It never says sinners will be eternally punished, only that Hell will forever exist.

Yes it does. I spent nearly 300 hours defending the doctrine.

 

[Chuckt]

You misunderstood my point with the eighty years thing. It should read as "the punishment for living a life (about eighty years) full of wrongdoing..."
The angels should have redemption too, if they repented.
What do I think of Jesus? I think that God actually does have power over Jesus, and that the universe would be a much nicer place if Jesus ran it.
But you never gave a clear answer, do you believe that after being sent to Hell, someone who truly repents should be released back into Heaven?

Repented or cried uncle?

When I was in college, there were few students who treated their fellow students bad because they didn't want to be there. If they didn't want to be there, why would they pay? There were a few but the fact is when you go on to second or third years, there are fewer that didn't want to be there. They wanted to be there so they treated it like they wanted to be there.

Someone who doesn't chose God doesn't want to be with Him in heaven. If they go to hell, do you give someone like Hitler a chance to repent and go to heaven? Do you think that he would want to be in heaven if he didn't want to be there the first time? Why should he be given another chance when he had a chance every day on the face of this earth?

I had my share of bad relationships or girlfriends. If someone dumps you three times, do you take them back a third time? I mean, was your decision not to take the person back a fourth time wise because someone who said, "no" once will come to the same conclusion a second time and a third time? At what point and when do you say that people know what they are doing?

The point is that people are responsible for their actions. I got hit by someone in a parking lot and there wasn't damage but for insurance reasons, I wanted them to at least trade phone numbers. They left while I was figuring out what to do. Why is that? Because they don't care?

What about prisoners or people who have been to jail? In your own personal life, if you knew someone who committed a crime more than once, how many times do you think it would be safe to be around them after they got out of jail multiple times?

I know people who made mistakes. They came out and I like them to a point. At what point do you get scared of them? At what point do you give up?

We can make these decisions but God knows the end from the beginning and God doesn't make mistakes. Every way of God's is just and true.

Security treats people as if they get worse with age. They have to. When you are young, you want to ride off in the sunset on a white horse. When you get older, you want to drive a BMW. Why is that? You sell out.

If Someone is sent to Hell and truly repents in their heart, which God should be able to tell, why should they stay there? They have turned to God and repented of their sins! Plus, God supposedly wants all people to be in Heaven with him. Besides, if Hell makes all pain on Earth feel wonderful and amazing in comparison, I'm sure many would realize the error of their ways. What I'm trying to say is, what if Hell id God's last resort to get people to repent?

If they can repent in hell then why don't they repent now? The truth is their real nature is what leads them into hell which they won't change.

A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the position that the natural behaviour of some creatures is inevitable, no matter how they are treated and no matter what the consequences. It is also used to illustrate that a person (frog) is to blame for the trouble they are in if it was caused by associating with another (scorpion) they know to be no good.

The Scorpion and the Frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DriftingSand]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

You're talking about "ultimate reconciliation" which, unfortunately, isn't a biblical doctrine. Death and hell are literal consequences for man's sinful nature and actions. God is just. He gave man a choice in the very beginning. He laid out in simple terms what was necessary for eternal life and what would happen if man disobeyed Him. Man chose the latter. So mankind was doomed to certain death until God took mercy upon him and gave him a way out. He took on a flesh body and died in our stead thus paying the penalty for sins.

So the door is open to anyone who desires eternal life in the Kingdom of God. That door is Jesus Christ. Accept Him and claim entrance or deny/reject Him and suffer the consequences. This truly is a life or death decision.

 

[DriftingSand]

If they can repent in hell then why don't they repent now? The truth is their real nature is what leads them into hell which they won't change.

Exactly! Earth is the "testing ground" for our faith. Now is the time to choose wisely our acceptance or rejection of Christ. One can't expect to live a life of sin and debauchery here on earth then be rewarded for it at some later time. If that were the case we could all simply murder, rape, pillage, steal, lie, and cheat and be rewarded for it when we get around to repenting (when we're on fire).

 

[DriftingSand]

The Bible does and I can defend this doctrine because I already have.

Yes. The Bible is clear that they who are cast into the lake of fire will suffer day and night forever.

Revelation 19:20, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Revelation 20:10, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Matthew 25:41, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

You could interpret it as meaning that the devil will be thrown into the pit to be tormented forever, and the flames that burn them are eternal. It never says sinners will be eternally punished, only that Hell will forever exist.

Well, let's allow Scripture to answer:

Revelation 14:9-11, "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

It's not looking good for "men" who deny Christ and buy into the "mark of the beast." God promises "torment" "for ever and ever" and "no rest day or night." So we can be certain that the devil, the false prophet (men), and anyone who accepts the mark of the beast will suffer eternal damnation -- if we're to believe God's written Word.