The Ultimate Tool for Redemption

[Chuckt]

The Bible does and I can defend this doctrine because I already have.

Yes. The Bible is clear that they who are cast into the lake of fire will suffer day and night forever.

Revelation 19:20, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Revelation 20:10, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Matthew 25:41, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

You could interpret it as meaning that the devil will be thrown into the pit to be tormented forever, and the flames that burn them are eternal. It never says sinners will be eternally punished, only that Hell will forever exist.

Why should God show favoritism towards men and annihilate them while punishing angels in hell eternally? Why should angels suffer and men not suffer? It could be argued that angels got men to do something wrong but why punish one group and not the other? Men sinned willingly and all sin is wilful. Men committed all the violence in this world and it can be argued that angels did not.

Romans 2:11 For God does not show favoritism.

Acts 10:34 ¶ Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

metaph. of ignorance respecting divine things and human duties, and the accompanying ungodliness and immorality, together with their consequent misery in hell

That word "ever" is also interesting. It means "forever".

Anyway, you can throw whatever arguments before me, CorvusRexus. Annihilationism is false doctrine and I already have it covered but I took time here to make a new argument because I'm not satisfied with doing enough.

Notes:

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Jude 1 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

[CorvusRexus]

Repented or cried uncle?

When I was in college, there were few students who treated their fellow students bad because they didn't want to be there. If they didn't want to be there, why would they pay? There were a few but the fact is when you go on to second or third years, there are fewer that didn't want to be there. They wanted to be there so they treated it like they wanted to be there.

Someone who doesn't chose God doesn't want to be with Him in heaven. If they go to hell, do you give someone like Hitler a chance to repent and go to heaven? Do you think that he would want to be in heaven if he didn't want to be there the first time? Why should he be given another chance when he had a chance every day on the face of this earth?

I had my share of bad relationships or girlfriends. If someone dumps you three times, do you take them back a third time? I mean, was your decision not to take the person back a fourth time wise because someone who said, "no" once will come to the same conclusion a second time and a third time? At what point and when do you say that people know what they are doing?

The point is that people are responsible for their actions. I got hit by someone in a parking lot and there wasn't damage but for insurance reasons, I wanted them to at least trade phone numbers. They left while I was figuring out what to do. Why is that? Because they don't care?

What about prisoners or people who have been to jail? In your own personal life, if you knew someone who committed a crime more than once, how many times do you think it would be safe to be around them after they got out of jail multiple times?

I know people who made mistakes. They came out and I like them to a point. At what point do you get scared of them? At what point do you give up?

We can make these decisions but God knows the end from the beginning and God doesn't make mistakes. Every way of God's is just and true.

Security treats people as if they get worse with age. They have to. When you are young, you want to ride off in the sunset on a white horse. When you get older, you want to drive a BMW. Why is that? You sell out.

If Someone is sent to Hell and truly repents in their heart, which God should be able to tell, why should they stay there? They have turned to God and repented of their sins! Plus, God supposedly wants all people to be in Heaven with him. Besides, if Hell makes all pain on Earth feel wonderful and amazing in comparison, I'm sure many would realize the error of their ways. What I'm trying to say is, what if Hell id God's last resort to get people to repent?

If they can repent in hell then why don't they repent now? The truth is their real nature is what leads them into hell which they won't change.

A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the position that the natural behaviour of some creatures is inevitable, no matter how they are treated and no matter what the consequences. It is also used to illustrate that a person (frog) is to blame for the trouble they are in if it was caused by associating with another (scorpion) they know to be no good.

The Scorpion and the Frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you believe that God is not all-merciful and all-forgiving? What about you, DriftingSands?

 

[Chuckt]

If Someone is sent to Hell and truly repents in their heart, which God should be able to tell, why should they stay there? They have turned to God and repented of their sins! Plus, God supposedly wants all people to be in Heaven with him. Besides, if Hell makes all pain on Earth feel wonderful and amazing in comparison, I'm sure many would realize the error of their ways. What I'm trying to say is, what if Hell id God's last resort to get people to repent?

If they can repent in hell then why don't they repent now? The truth is their real nature is what leads them into hell which they won't change.

A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the position that the natural behaviour of some creatures is inevitable, no matter how they are treated and no matter what the consequences. It is also used to illustrate that a person (frog) is to blame for the trouble they are in if it was caused by associating with another (scorpion) they know to be no good.

The Scorpion and the Frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you believe that God is not all-merciful and all-forgiving? What about you, DriftingSands?

He is a person. You should also know that love ceases to be love when love doesn't protect. God allows the wheat to grow up with the tares (weeds) because destroying the weeds might damage the wheat for several reasons.

But from the standpoint of the redeemed, the punishment of the wicked is an act of unspeakable mercy. How dreadful would it be if the present order of things when the children of God are obliged to live in the midst of the children of the Devil, should continue forever! Heaven would at once cease to be heaven if the ears of the saints still heard the blasphemous and filthy language of the reprobate. What a mercy that in the New Jerusalem "there shall in nowise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination" (Rev. 21:27)!

The Attributes of God
by A.W. Pink

14. The Mercy of God

The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-The Mercy of God

 

[Smilebong]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

It is not that kind of equation.

You are basically getting what you want. You don't want God here, you don't get God there.

 

[CorvusRexus]

If they can repent in hell then why don't they repent now? The truth is their real nature is what leads them into hell which they won't change.



The Scorpion and the Frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you believe that God is not all-merciful and all-forgiving? What about you, DriftingSands?

He is a person. You should also know that love ceases to be love when love doesn't protect. God allows the wheat to grow up with the tares (weeds) because destroying the weeds might damage the wheat for several reasons.

But from the standpoint of the redeemed, the punishment of the wicked is an act of unspeakable mercy. How dreadful would it be if the present order of things when the children of God are obliged to live in the midst of the children of the Devil, should continue forever! Heaven would at once cease to be heaven if the ears of the saints still heard the blasphemous and filthy language of the reprobate. What a mercy that in the New Jerusalem "there shall in nowise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination" (Rev. 21:27)!

The Attributes of God
by A.W. Pink

14. The Mercy of God

The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-The Mercy of God

Love doesn't necessarily have to protect.
But you instead say God is a fallible person, rather than admit God is not all-merciful? Interesting...

 

[Chuckt]

So you believe that God is not all-merciful and all-forgiving? What about you, DriftingSands?

He is a person. You should also know that love ceases to be love when love doesn't protect. God allows the wheat to grow up with the tares (weeds) because destroying the weeds might damage the wheat for several reasons.

But from the standpoint of the redeemed, the punishment of the wicked is an act of unspeakable mercy. How dreadful would it be if the present order of things when the children of God are obliged to live in the midst of the children of the Devil, should continue forever! Heaven would at once cease to be heaven if the ears of the saints still heard the blasphemous and filthy language of the reprobate. What a mercy that in the New Jerusalem "there shall in nowise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination" (Rev. 21:27)!

The Attributes of God
by A.W. Pink

14. The Mercy of God

The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-The Mercy of God

Love doesn't necessarily have to protect.
But you instead say God is a fallible person, rather than admit God is not all-merciful? Interesting...

No.

What God is going to do is separate the sheep from the goats. I was feeding some sheep and two goats came around and kicked the wind out of me in order to persuade me to feed them instead of the sheep and they tried to intimidate me as a young person. Getting kicked by hooves is not a very fun thing.

Paul was shown mercy.

1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

You see, mercy is within God's power to grant towards someone when it is in God's power to punish or harm but the fact that the person rejected mercy and instead asked for God's wrath because they are Christ rejecting, God gives that person their wishes.

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

When you reject what Jesus has done on the cross, what mercy do you show God for what His son has done for you on the cross? If you show no mercy then you will have judgment without mercy.

Luke 18:38 He called out, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!"

 

[BreezeWood]

If they can repent in hell then why don't they repent now? The truth is their real nature is what leads them into hell which they won't change.

Exactly! Earth is the "testing ground" for our faith. Now is the time to choose wisely our acceptance or rejection of Christ. One can't expect to live a life of sin and debauchery here on earth then be rewarded for it at some later time. If that were the case we could all simply murder, rape, pillage, steal, lie, and cheat and be rewarded for it when we get around to repenting (when we're on fire).

OP: The God of Christianity ...

DriftingSand: ... and be rewarded for it when we get around to repenting (when we're on fire).

an example of the inequities pervasive in scriptural "Christianity" whereby "while living" they rely on a "Savior" as "we could all simply murder, rape, pillage, steal, lie, and cheat and be rewarded for it" to save themselves - and without retribution even to the victim.

the same as above - "and be rewarded for it when we get around to repenting".

.

 

[Chuckt]

If they can repent in hell then why don't they repent now? The truth is their real nature is what leads them into hell which they won't change.

Exactly! Earth is the "testing ground" for our faith. Now is the time to choose wisely our acceptance or rejection of Christ. One can't expect to live a life of sin and debauchery here on earth then be rewarded for it at some later time. If that were the case we could all simply murder, rape, pillage, steal, lie, and cheat and be rewarded for it when we get around to repenting (when we're on fire).

DriftingSand: ... and be rewarded for it when we get around to repenting (when we're on fire).

an example of the inequities pervasive in scriptural "Christianity" whereby "while living" they rely on a "Savior" as "we could all simply murder, rape, pillage, steal, lie, and cheat and be rewarded for it" to save themselves - and without retribution even to the victim.

the same as above - "and be rewarded for it when we get around to repenting".

.

Would you rather have an eye for an eye? A world where there is no forgiveness?

What can you give for an eye?

Restitution is still a Biblical concept.

Luke 19:8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount."

What system works where a person is trash and can't redeem himself especially in a world that is out of control?

And retribution is a concept because Christ paid for every sin. Ask Him what it costs him for your sins.

 

[Chuckt]

So you believe that God is not all-merciful and all-forgiving? What about you, DriftingSands?

He is a person. You should also know that love ceases to be love when love doesn't protect. God allows the wheat to grow up with the tares (weeds) because destroying the weeds might damage the wheat for several reasons.

But from the standpoint of the redeemed, the punishment of the wicked is an act of unspeakable mercy. How dreadful would it be if the present order of things when the children of God are obliged to live in the midst of the children of the Devil, should continue forever! Heaven would at once cease to be heaven if the ears of the saints still heard the blasphemous and filthy language of the reprobate. What a mercy that in the New Jerusalem "there shall in nowise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination" (Rev. 21:27)!

The Attributes of God
by A.W. Pink

14. The Mercy of God

The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-The Mercy of God

Love doesn't necessarily have to protect.
But you instead say God is a fallible person, rather than admit God is not all-merciful? Interesting...

The question you should ask yourself is if mercy can exist without judgment?

Imagine if Adam didn't sin. Eve could ask Adam, "Do you love me?" and he would say, "who else?"

 

[CorvusRexus]

He is a person. You should also know that love ceases to be love when love doesn't protect. God allows the wheat to grow up with the tares (weeds) because destroying the weeds might damage the wheat for several reasons.



The Attributes of God
by A.W. Pink

14. The Mercy of God

The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-The Mercy of God

Love doesn't necessarily have to protect.
But you instead say God is a fallible person, rather than admit God is not all-merciful? Interesting...

The question you should ask yourself is if mercy can exist without judgment?

Imagine if Adam didn't sin. Eve could ask Adam, "Do you love me?" and he would say, "who else?"

Fair point, but light can't exist without darkness, love without hate, peace without war, etc. so I'll ignore that.
If Adam and Eve didn't sin, Adam would have replied, "No. My love is for God alone."
Speaking of the first sin, you seem to forget that eating the fruit also gave mankind knowledge of good. Thus, without the fruit, God could not be seen as good by us, because we couldn't comprehend it.

 

[thebrucebeat]

The punishment isn't for eighty years.

The angels had full knowledge. Why isn't there redemption for angels? Because they knew?
There seems to be redemption for man because man didn't have full knowledge.

You're the judge. Everyone's name was written in the book of life until they were blotted out. You're the judge. What do you think of Jesus? When you judge Jesus you are judging yourself.

You misunderstood my point with the eighty years thing. It should read as "the punishment for living a life (about eighty years) full of wrongdoing..."
The angels should have redemption too, if they repented.
What do I think of Jesus? I think that God actually does have power over Jesus, and that the universe would be a much nicer place if Jesus ran it.
But you never gave a clear answer, do you believe that after being sent to Hell, someone who truly repents should be released back into Heaven?

Repented or cried uncle?

When I was in college, there were few students who treated their fellow students bad because they didn't want to be there. If they didn't want to be there, why would they pay? There were a few but the fact is when you go on to second or third years, there are fewer that didn't want to be there. They wanted to be there so they treated it like they wanted to be there.

Someone who doesn't chose God doesn't want to be with Him in heaven. If they go to hell, do you give someone like Hitler a chance to repent and go to heaven? Do you think that he would want to be in heaven if he didn't want to be there the first time? Why should he be given another chance when he had a chance every day on the face of this earth?

I had my share of bad relationships or girlfriends. If someone dumps you three times, do you take them back a third time? I mean, was your decision not to take the person back a fourth time wise because someone who said, "no" once will come to the same conclusion a second time and a third time? At what point and when do you say that people know what they are doing?

The point is that people are responsible for their actions. I got hit by someone in a parking lot and there wasn't damage but for insurance reasons, I wanted them to at least trade phone numbers. They left while I was figuring out what to do. Why is that? Because they don't care?

What about prisoners or people who have been to jail? In your own personal life, if you knew someone who committed a crime more than once, how many times do you think it would be safe to be around them after they got out of jail multiple times?

I know people who made mistakes. They came out and I like them to a point. At what point do you get scared of them? At what point do you give up?

We can make these decisions but God knows the end from the beginning and God doesn't make mistakes. Every way of God's is just and true.

Security treats people as if they get worse with age. They have to. When you are young, you want to ride off in the sunset on a white horse. When you get older, you want to drive a BMW. Why is that? You sell out.

Jesus said you forgive "seven times seventy" times, which did not mean 490 times, but as many times as it took.
Why is that right for you and me (though you obviously disagree) but not right for the guy making the rules?
If he followed the advice, that would be real grace.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Are you asking because you care or are you just being a pussy Christan basher

Would the answer be any different based on the intent of the question?

 

[thebrucebeat]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

Who says Eternal Suffering is forever?

Do you have a different definition of "eternal"?

 

[Chuckt]

You misunderstood my point with the eighty years thing. It should read as "the punishment for living a life (about eighty years) full of wrongdoing..."
The angels should have redemption too, if they repented.
What do I think of Jesus? I think that God actually does have power over Jesus, and that the universe would be a much nicer place if Jesus ran it.
But you never gave a clear answer, do you believe that after being sent to Hell, someone who truly repents should be released back into Heaven?

Repented or cried uncle?

When I was in college, there were few students who treated their fellow students bad because they didn't want to be there. If they didn't want to be there, why would they pay? There were a few but the fact is when you go on to second or third years, there are fewer that didn't want to be there. They wanted to be there so they treated it like they wanted to be there.

Someone who doesn't chose God doesn't want to be with Him in heaven. If they go to hell, do you give someone like Hitler a chance to repent and go to heaven? Do you think that he would want to be in heaven if he didn't want to be there the first time? Why should he be given another chance when he had a chance every day on the face of this earth?

I had my share of bad relationships or girlfriends. If someone dumps you three times, do you take them back a third time? I mean, was your decision not to take the person back a fourth time wise because someone who said, "no" once will come to the same conclusion a second time and a third time? At what point and when do you say that people know what they are doing?

The point is that people are responsible for their actions. I got hit by someone in a parking lot and there wasn't damage but for insurance reasons, I wanted them to at least trade phone numbers. They left while I was figuring out what to do. Why is that? Because they don't care?

What about prisoners or people who have been to jail? In your own personal life, if you knew someone who committed a crime more than once, how many times do you think it would be safe to be around them after they got out of jail multiple times?

I know people who made mistakes. They came out and I like them to a point. At what point do you get scared of them? At what point do you give up?

We can make these decisions but God knows the end from the beginning and God doesn't make mistakes. Every way of God's is just and true.

Security treats people as if they get worse with age. They have to. When you are young, you want to ride off in the sunset on a white horse. When you get older, you want to drive a BMW. Why is that? You sell out.

Jesus said you forgive "seven times seventy" times, which did not mean 490 times, but as many times as it took.
Why is that right for you and me (though you obviously disagree) but not right for the guy making the rules?
If he followed the advice, that would be real grace.

No. Forgiveness has an ending which is why it is 70 times 7.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

 

[thebrucebeat]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

It is not that kind of equation.

You are basically getting what you want. You don't want God here, you don't get God there.

Now that would be fair.
Why isn't that the deal being discussed here.
Instead you don't get god AND you get unmercifully tortured for eternity.
Different proposition.
Let's agree on your reading.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Repented or cried uncle?

When I was in college, there were few students who treated their fellow students bad because they didn't want to be there. If they didn't want to be there, why would they pay? There were a few but the fact is when you go on to second or third years, there are fewer that didn't want to be there. They wanted to be there so they treated it like they wanted to be there.

Someone who doesn't chose God doesn't want to be with Him in heaven. If they go to hell, do you give someone like Hitler a chance to repent and go to heaven? Do you think that he would want to be in heaven if he didn't want to be there the first time? Why should he be given another chance when he had a chance every day on the face of this earth?

I had my share of bad relationships or girlfriends. If someone dumps you three times, do you take them back a third time? I mean, was your decision not to take the person back a fourth time wise because someone who said, "no" once will come to the same conclusion a second time and a third time? At what point and when do you say that people know what they are doing?

The point is that people are responsible for their actions. I got hit by someone in a parking lot and there wasn't damage but for insurance reasons, I wanted them to at least trade phone numbers. They left while I was figuring out what to do. Why is that? Because they don't care?

What about prisoners or people who have been to jail? In your own personal life, if you knew someone who committed a crime more than once, how many times do you think it would be safe to be around them after they got out of jail multiple times?

I know people who made mistakes. They came out and I like them to a point. At what point do you get scared of them? At what point do you give up?

We can make these decisions but God knows the end from the beginning and God doesn't make mistakes. Every way of God's is just and true.

Security treats people as if they get worse with age. They have to. When you are young, you want to ride off in the sunset on a white horse. When you get older, you want to drive a BMW. Why is that? You sell out.

Jesus said you forgive "seven times seventy" times, which did not mean 490 times, but as many times as it took.
Why is that right for you and me (though you obviously disagree) but not right for the guy making the rules?
If he followed the advice, that would be real grace.

No. Forgiveness has an ending which is why it is 70 times 7.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Numbers have meaning in the bible. Seven meant Divine perfection or completeness. Their would be no limit to your perfect and complete forgiveness. Are you seriously unfamiliar with this?
Did you really think Christ intended you to keep a scorebook and when you reached 490 you should stop forgiving? How do you personally keep track? Do you use a notebook or a spreadsheet?

 

[Smilebong]

The God of Christianity is regarded as all-merciful and is touted as being slow to anger but fast to forgive. Why then is the punishment for eighty years of misdeeds an eternity in eternal suffering? Even the US government would not be so harsh- protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Why then is God? It should stand to reason that Hell would be some kind of final redeemer, where the amount of time spent there is equivalent to the amount of time it takes one to repent truly, ie, the ultimate tool for redemption. People face unimaginable pain and torture until they realize their sins. And once they realize their wrongs, would a true God of compassion who cares for all of his creation leave them to continue to suffer?

It is not that kind of equation.

You are basically getting what you want. You don't want God here, you don't get God there.

Now that would be fair.
Why isn't that the deal being discussed here.
Instead you don't get god AND you get unmercifully tortured for eternity.
Different proposition.
Let's agree on your reading.

What? Speak English.

 

[thebrucebeat]

It is not that kind of equation.

You are basically getting what you want. You don't want God here, you don't get God there.

Now that would be fair.
Why isn't that the deal being discussed here.
Instead you don't get god AND you get unmercifully tortured for eternity.
Different proposition.
Let's agree on your reading.

What? Speak English.

Is it a second language for you?
No worries.
You said if we reject god while here on earth then we don't get him in the afterlife. Did I read that correctly?
If that was the end of the story, that would seem fair.
But the story continues.
Not only do we not get god in the afterlife, we get brutally tortured forever.
I like your version better.
Was this clearer?
It seems identical to me.

 

[Smilebong]

Now that would be fair.
Why isn't that the deal being discussed here.
Instead you don't get god AND you get unmercifully tortured for eternity.
Different proposition.
Let's agree on your reading.

What? Speak English.

Is it a second language for you?
No worries.
You said if we reject god while here on earth then we don't get him in the afterlife. Did I read that correctly?
If that was the end of the story, that would seem fair.
But the story continues.
Not only do we not get god in the afterlife, we get brutally tortured forever.
I like your version better.
Was this clearer?
It seems identical to me.

Do you ever have a point? Other than to try and bait Christians?

 

[thebrucebeat]

What? Speak English.

Is it a second language for you?
No worries.
You said if we reject god while here on earth then we don't get him in the afterlife. Did I read that correctly?
If that was the end of the story, that would seem fair.
But the story continues.
Not only do we not get god in the afterlife, we get brutally tortured forever.
I like your version better.
Was this clearer?
It seems identical to me.

Do you ever have a point? Other than to try and bait Christians?

Why do people get mad at me when they make poor arguments or don't make the arguments they think they have made and it's pointed out to them?
I never understand that.
Do you think striking out at me for pointing out your poor argument somehow makes your argument magically better?