Zone1 False religion is not from God.. who knew?

[Cougarbear]

See, this is what happens when you rewrite inconvenient Scriptures. Just for one example, Luke 9 doesn't specify John at all. Jesus said, "SOME who are standing here", and Jesus did NOT say they would not die until He returned. He said they would see the Kingdom, and they did. Christians are already living in His kingdom. We are full citizens, children of the King. Sure, I'll accept you're right about John if you can show me where he is currently living, because I'd like to ask him some questions. This "translated state" that you dreamed up is a convenient way of excusing the fact that you cannot produce evidence of a 2,000-year-old man living in the Middle East, or anywhere for that matter. You have to come up with something like that because your belief requires an excuse.

Now, this "translated state" that you speak of, how is it different for the Christian than the after-life experience?

We know who he was talking about. And then try to say it 100% isn’t John is doing the same thing you are complaining about Joseph Smith doing. Typical Democrat. Force everyone to drive electrical cars then tell them to turn off their ACs. Hypocrite. And, most other scholars agree that it’s John being referred to since he’s the LAST apostle to be alive! Good grief.
Translate does not refer to afterlife. It means for a time his body and mind will not age and be immortal. Then, at his coming, he will be mortal again. And, most likely die and be resurrected in a twinkling of the eye. He will not taste death like you and I.

 

[Cougarbear]

Most of Psalms are Canaanite poetry.

Not going to worry about your mumbling like Joe Biden. Ur…my uncle was eaten by cannibals!

 

[hadit]

We know who he was talking about. And then try to say it 100% isn’t John is doing the same thing you are complaining about Joseph Smith doing. Typical Democrat. Force everyone to drive electrical cars then tell them to turn off their ACs. Hypocrite.

Look at what I post and try to call me a democrat. That's politics, not the Gospel.

And, most other scholars agree that it’s John being referred to since he’s the LAST apostle to be alive! Good grief.

"Most scholars". That's a very convenient label that is essentially meaningless. Have you actually compared the number of Bible scholars (not those quoting from J Smith) who think John never died to the total number of people throughout history who have dedicated their lives to studying Scripture? I don't think you have.

Translate does not refer to afterlife. It means for a time his body and mind will not age and be immortal. Then, at his coming, he will be mortal again. And, most likely die and be resurrected in a twinkling of the eye. He will not taste death like you and I.

Would you care to tell me where in the Bible it says that John went into such a state? I'll save you some time and tell you it doesn't. Look, all you have is one occasion when Jesus said, "It's none of your business if I do something special with John, that's between him and me, so don't worry about it". Jesus never, and I mean never, said that John would live as a human on earth forever. That's good enough for me not to build a whole theology around making excuses why no one can find a 2,000-year-old man.

 

[Cougarbear]

Look at what I post and try to call me a democrat. That's politics, not the Gospel.

"Most scholars". That's a very convenient label that is essentially meaningless. Have you actually compared the number of Bible scholars (not those quoting from J Smith) who think John never died to the total number of people throughout history who have dedicated their lives to studying Scripture? I don't think you have.

Would you care to tell me where in the Bible it says that John went into such a state? I'll save you some time and tell you it doesn't. Look, all you have is one occasion when Jesus said, "It's none of your business if I do something special with John, that's between him and me, so don't worry about it". Jesus never, and I mean never, said that John would live as a human on earth forever. That's good enough for me not to build a whole theology around making excuses why no one can find a 2,000-year-old man.

The Democrat comment was an analogy. Goes to show again your comprehension is suspect.

Your second come t is just a guess.

The third comment and question is argumentative silliness. What other state could John be in living around a thousand years? Honestly. Exactly who Christ was talking about always studying but never understanding.

 

[hadit]

The Democrat comment was an analogy. Goes to show again your comprehension is suspect.

It's also totally unnecessary and betrays a desire on your part to insult, not to debate.

Your second come t is just a guess.

I'm asking you to defend something you said. You said, "Most scholars", and I want to know if you know that for sure or you just made it up because it sounds good, like it supports your argument.

The third comment and question is argumentative silliness. What other state could John be in living around a thousand years? Honestly. Exactly who Christ was talking about always studying but never understanding.

And therein lies the rub. You're coming at it ASSUMING that John is still alive and trying to find ways that he could be while not being identified as the oldest person ever to live. This leads you to invent the special state of limbo that he's apparently floating around in, unaware of the passage of time, etc. The simpler approach is to just take Jesus at His word and say, "It's all up to Him and we shouldn't worry about it", because we don't see a 2,000-year-old man wandering around.

 

[Cougarbear]

It's also totally unnecessary and betrays a desire on your part to insult, not to debate.

I'm asking you to defend something you said. You said, "Most scholars", and I want to know if you know that for sure or you just made it up because it sounds good, like it supports your argument.

And therein lies the rub. You're coming at it ASSUMING that John is still alive and trying to find ways that he could be while not being identified as the oldest person ever to live. This leads you to invent the special state of limbo that he's apparently floating around in, unaware of the passage of time, etc. The simpler approach is to just take Jesus at His word and say, "It's all up to Him and we shouldn't worry about it", because we don't see a 2,000-year-old man wandering around.

It was totally necessary because I am doubting your sincerity to learn. Again, amassing knowledge without ever coming to understanding.
You could just Google and find out most scholars believe it’s John. Then, I have a prophet of God who communicated with the Lord personally that said this is so. I can’t help it that you don’t. Not my problem.
I’m not assuming John is still around. I believe he will be until his 2nd Coming.

 

[hadit]

It was totally necessary because I am doubting your sincerity to learn. Again, amassing knowledge without ever coming to understanding.
You could just Google and find out most scholars believe it’s John.

I'm asking you because you made the claim, so it's on you to back it up. "Google it" is not an answer. I believe you said it with no idea whether it's really true or not.

Then, I have a prophet of God who communicated with the Lord personally that said this is so. I can’t help it that you don’t. Not my problem.

You believe you have that while I believe you do not, that's the reality. Since J Smith made predictions that didn't come true, I'm not going to hang my hat on the other things he said.

I’m not assuming John is still around. I believe he will be until his 2nd Coming.

John is dead and Jesus is coming back, not John. At that time, John's body will be resurrected along with bodies of the other believers who rest in the Lord. That's Biblical, what you're saying is not.

 

[Cougarbear]

I'm asking you because you made the claim, so it's on you to back it up. "Google it" is not an answer. I believe you said it with no idea whether it's really true or not.

You believe you have that while I believe you do not, that's the reality. Since J Smith made predictions that didn't come true, I'm not going to hang my hat on the other things he said.

John is dead and Jesus is coming back, not John. At that time, John's body will be resurrected along with bodies of the other believers who rest in the Lord. That's Biblical, what you're saying is not.

Back it up yourself. Your whole intention is to prove me wrong. So, it’s up to you.

Predictions? No, when he speaks as a Prophet then they have all come true or in the future will come true. He’s never made time predictions without what all prophets do, do it with conditions. If Israel you do this, then this will happen or not happen.

Prove John is dead. Does it say so in the Bible?

 

[kjw47]

So yeh, there are an awful lot of religions in the world!

Many of them claim to be Christian.

And they do talk about Jesus here and there in those communities. The Original Church calls them ecclessial communities, NOT Churches. There is only ONE Church. Try to find some fault with THAT teaching, namely there is only ONE Church.. Did God estaablish thousands of Churches? No, God only established one. He didn't need more than one. People need or think they need more than one... house, car... whatever.. but no, only one house or car is needed.. (most of the time).

Anyhow, yeh, people argue w/ the RCC about how it claim to be the Original

But they never say which one is the real Original... or if they do, they can be proven wrong immediately, but even then, even when proven wrong by historical facts..

they don't like or accept the real Original. Well, Jesus did say that "you will be hated by all because of [Him]"

Its simple to see who Jesus is with from a single teaching= Matt 6:33-Keep on seeking - FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHVH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)
The false religions that do not listen to Jesus, teach to seek Jesus' righteousness first and fail both Jesus and all listening to them.

 

[Cougarbear]

Its simple to see who Jesus is with from a single teaching= Matt 6:33-Keep on seeking - FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHVH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)
The false religions that do not listen to Jesus, teach to seek Jesus' righteousness first and fail both Jesus and all listening to them.

Any JW that tries to reach about Jesus Christ has lost the battle from the beginning. The scholars called themselves prophets and conjured up false doctrine to get money for themselves. They immediately stated exact days and times of the end of the world and were wrong. So they tried 4 more times and we are still here. If they mess that up then it’s obvious they will mess up the rest of the doctrine as well.
But, you aren’t any better since you seem to accept Jesus but reject his words as well.

 

[kjw47]

Any JW that tries to reach about Jesus Christ has lost the battle from the beginning. The scholars called themselves prophets and conjured up false doctrine to get money for themselves. They immediately stated exact days and times of the end of the world and were wrong. So they tried 4 more times and we are still here. If they mess that up then it’s obvious they will mess up the rest of the doctrine as well.
But, you aren’t any better since you seem to accept Jesus but reject his words as well.

dream on --All those men died--Its not done anymore--I showed you what Jesus taught at Matt 6:33--there is no denying it--only ones in darkness deny it because they are mislead.

 

[Cougarbear]

dream on --All those men died--Its not done anymore--I showed you what Jesus taught at Matt 6:33--there is no denying it--only ones in darkness deny it because they are mislead.

You follow jokers who frightened their flock by saying the world was ending in a specific day causing the people to commit suicide and give their property and money to those liars. You are still being misled.

 

[hadit]

Back it up yourself. Your whole intention is to prove me wrong. So, it’s up to you.

My intention is to adhere to Biblical Scripture, not invent brand new Scripture that leads off into wild speculation.

Predictions? No, when he speaks as a Prophet then they have all come true or in the future will come true. He’s never made time predictions without what all prophets do, do it with conditions. If Israel you do this, then this will happen or not happen.

Oh, I get it. If it comes true, J Smith was speaking as a prophet, but if it doesn't, then he was just goofing off. That's what your excuse sounds like. Here's just one that blows him out of the water. He predicted the end in 1891. It didn't happen. The mere fact that he pretended he knew when that would be is fraudulent, because that is a secret that God knows and isn't telling.

Prove John is dead. Does it say so in the Bible?

Hebrews 9:27 says that man is appointed once to die, then be judged. John cannot simultaneously live forever and die, and there would be no point to him living to see Christ return, THEN die. See, you're building this whole structure out of your belief that John did not die when Jesus said flat out, "It's none of your business what I have planned for you". Why are you trying to make it your business?

 

[Cougarbear]

My intention is to adhere to Biblical Scripture, not invent brand new Scripture that leads off into wild speculation.

Oh, I get it. If it comes true, J Smith was speaking as a prophet, but if it doesn't, then he was just goofing off. That's what your excuse sounds like. Here's just one that blows him out of the water. He predicted the end in 1891. It didn't happen. The mere fact that he pretended he knew when that would be is fraudulent, because that is a secret that God knows and isn't telling.

Hebrews 9:27 says that man is appointed once to die, then be judged. John cannot simultaneously live forever and die, and there would be no point to him living to see Christ return, THEN die. See, you're building this whole structure out of your belief that John did not die when Jesus said flat out, "It's none of your business what I have planned for you". Why are you trying to make it your business?

You interpret the Bible the same as everyone else does in attempts to understand them. Either they read and go it alone or they read other interpretations and follow those thinkings. In any event, without intervention directly from heaven, yours is no more valuable nor true than the next persons. Name calling proves yours in mostly incomplete knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

Technically he prophesied that we have at least that much time until Christ comes, so not not begin to expect Christ until after that time. This is an example of your incomplete studies and just using someone else’s anti-Mormon garbage. The Apostles in the New testament gave a similar prophecy stating that Christ won't come until after XYZ events happen so stop actively looking for his return. Regardless even when interpreting this as a prediction of when Christ returns it has a condition (like many prophesies do) that being that Joseph Smith didn't die by then. Joseph was killed in 1844 the conditions were not met. A similar thing happened with jonah's (from the bible) prophecy the conditions weren't met so it didn't happen.

John will die. If Jesus can bring Lazareth back from the dead he can prevent John’s body from deteriorating for any length of time he wants. Funny how you claim Jesus the all powerful and mighty God and them limit his abilities at the same time. With a twinkling of an eye, John will die and be resurrected.
When Jesus rose from the dead, the morning of the first resurrection began. There were others after his resurrection that rose too according to the Bible. I would think at least all the prophets were some of those. Of course, the rest of the exalting ordinances would have been performed for them like Baptism for the Dead, Endowments, Washing and Annointings, Sealings of spouses…

 

[hadit]

You interpret the Bible the same as everyone else does in attempts to understand them. Either they read and go it alone or they read other interpretations and follow those thinkings. In any event, without intervention directly from heaven, yours is no more valuable nor true than the next persons. Name calling proves yours in mostly incomplete knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

I am only using people's given names, not calling them anything.

Technically he prophesied that we have at least that much time until Christ comes, so not not begin to expect Christ until after that time. This is an example of your incomplete studies and just using someone else’s anti-Mormon garbage. The Apostles in the New testament gave a similar prophecy stating that Christ won't come until after XYZ events happen so stop actively looking for his return. Regardless even when interpreting this as a prediction of when Christ returns it has a condition (like many prophesies do) that being that Joseph Smith didn't die by then. Joseph was killed in 1844 the conditions were not met. A similar thing happened with jonah's (from the bible) prophecy the conditions weren't met so it didn't happen.

Interesting. Did his contemporaries understand that, or did they get all excited when the year approached?

John will die.

Correction, John has been dead for 2,000 years.

If Jesus can bring Lazareth back from the dead he can prevent John’s body from deteriorating for any length of time he wants.

Those who are resurrected at Christ's return don't need their old bodies at all. They will get brand new ones. Why do want to saddle John with an old man's body, moments from death? I wouldn't.

Funny how you claim Jesus the all powerful and mighty God and them limit his abilities at the same time. With a twinkling of an eye, John will die and be resurrected.

Scripture doesn't back that up, so if you want to believe it, just understand it's not Biblical

When Jesus rose from the dead, the morning of the first resurrection began. There were others after his resurrection that rose too according to the Bible. I would think at least all the prophets were some of those. Of course, the rest of the exalting ordinances would have been performed for them like Baptism for the Dead, Endowments, Washing and Annointings, Sealings of spouses…

None of those are Biblical, so again, if you want to believe them, at least understand that.

 

[Cougarbear]

I am only using people's given names, not calling them anything.

Interesting. Did his contemporaries understand that, or did they get all excited when the year approached?

Correction, John has been dead for 2,000 years.

Those who are resurrected at Christ's return don't need their old bodies at all. They will get brand new ones. Why do want to saddle John with an old man's body, moments from death? I wouldn't.

Scripture doesn't back that up, so if you want to believe it, just understand it's not Biblical

None of those are Biblical, so again, if you want to believe them, at least understand that.

Oh, you are calling people names. Please!

I'm sure there were some who started to prepare. But, there was no given day and the times certainly didn't seem like the world was at war going crazy. The Church has always taught about being self-sufficient and ready for bad times with food storage and other preparations.

Do you have proof John died and wasn't translated? I've given you Luke passage that together with Matthew says it's possible John is still alive in a state of immortality until the 2nd Coming. But, you don't believe in miracles that Jesus can do such a thing.
John 5:21, " For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will."
Qhickeneth is not resurrection. It's a state of immortality before the resurrection. Scripture backs all this up.

Isaiah 26:19, "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Philippians 3:21, "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...
Mark 27:52, "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose."
I could go on and on...but this is Biblical and many of the saints who were dead arose and were at the very least, quickened.

 

[Cougarbear]

I am only using people's given names, not calling them anything.

Interesting. Did his contemporaries understand that, or did they get all excited when the year approached?

Correction, John has been dead for 2,000 years.

Those who are resurrected at Christ's return don't need their old bodies at all. They will get brand new ones. Why do want to saddle John with an old man's body, moments from death? I wouldn't.

Scripture doesn't back that up, so if you want to believe it, just understand it's not Biblical

None of those are Biblical, so again, if you want to believe them, at least understand that.

I just wanted to also mention that you claim that everyone lives and dies and John could not have possibly not died. Do you still hold this to be true? Because in the Bible I can think of two others right off the bat that did not taste death. Enoch and Elijah. Go figure. you still want to say after the scripture in Luke that John wasn't translated as I have described and continues to work amongst us?

 

[kjw47]

You follow jokers who frightened their flock by saying the world was ending in a specific day causing the people to commit suicide and give their property and money to those liars. You are still being misled.

What a laugh you are. Following one who did the same.

 

[Cougarbear]

What a laugh you are. Following one who did the same.

No he didn’t. And I addressed that. He didn’t say Jesus would return in 1891. Nor did he give and exact day and time. Repent.

 

[hadit]

Oh, you are calling people names. Please!

Okay, who am I calling names, especially in this arena? There is only one that I am aware of that I routinely call names, and he's a political figure having nothing to do with this discussion.

I'm sure there were some who started to prepare. But, there was no given day and the times certainly didn't seem like the world was at war going crazy. The Church has always taught about being self-sufficient and ready for bad times with food storage and other preparations.

Do you have proof John died and wasn't translated? I've given you Luke passage that together with Matthew says it's possible John is still alive in a state of immortality until the 2nd Coming. But, you don't believe in miracles that Jesus can do such a thing.

Now, hold on here. I never said that, that's something you just made up out of nothing. I have said and will continue to say that Jesus told His disciples it was none of their business what He would do with John. You cannot do anything more than say, "It's possible". Of course it's possible, but you've built a whole theology around believing that it's fact and created out of nothing some pseudo nonsense about how God did it.

John 5:21, " For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will."
Qhickeneth is not resurrection. It's a state of immortality before the resurrection. Scripture backs all this up.

Isaiah 26:19, "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Philippians 3:21, "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...
Mark 27:52, "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose."
I could go on and on...but this is Biblical and many of the saints who were dead arose and were at the very least, quickened.

What is common among all of those you mention? They died before they could be resurrected.