Zone1 How we know the Catholic Church (called such at least as early as 107 AD) did not fail

[Mr. Friscus]

And HUMAN TRADITIONS ADOPTED and PERPETUATED by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH in the COURSE OF 1600 YEARS.


"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" Jesus in John 8:32


Notice:- These dates are in many cases approximate. Many of these heresies had been current in the church years before, but only when they were officially adopted by a church council and proclaimed by the pope as dogma of faith, did they become binding on Catholics.


And doctrine to be true must conform to the Word of God. "To the law and to the testimony; if they speak not according to this word, it become there is no light in them." ( Isaiah 8:20 ).


At the Reformation in the 16th Century these heresies were repudiated as having no part in the Religion of Jesus as taught in the New Testament.


1. OF ALL THE HUMAN TRADITIONS taught and practiced by the Roman Catholic Church, which are contrary to the Bible, the most ancient are the prayers for the dead and the sign of the Cross. Both began 300 years after Christ................................................................................310


2. Wax Candles introduced in church about...........................................................................320


3. Veneration of angels and dead saints about...................................................................375


4. The Mass, as a daily celebration, adopted.........................................................................394


5. The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the use of the term, "Mother of God", as applied to her, originated in the Council of Ephesus in..............................................................431


6. Priests began to dress differently from the laity in.................................................................500


7. The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Gregory the Great about the year.......593


8. The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, was also imposed
by Pope Gregory I. 600 years after Christ...............................................................................600


The Word of God forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue ( I Cor.14:9).


9. The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone. In the primitive church never were there
prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church about......................................................................................................................................600


(Matt.11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18)


10. The Papacy is of pagan origin. The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas, in the year.....................................................610


This he did to spite Bishop Ciriacus of Constantinople, who had justly excommunicated him for having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory I, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed title "pope".


Jesus did not appoint Peter to the leadership of the apostles and forbade such notion.
(Luke 22:24-26; Eph.1:22-3;Col.1:18; I Cor.3:11 ).


Note:- Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd. bishop of Rome, remarks that "there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome."


11. The kissing of the Pope's feet began in.........................................................................709


It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Read Acts 10:25-26; Rev.19:10; 22:9).


12. The Temporal power of the Popes began .....................................................................750


When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He Himself refused worldly kingship (Read Matt.4:8-9; 20:25-26; John 18:38).


13. Worship of the cross, of images and relics was authorized in........................................788


This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused to pluck the the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time.


Such practice is called simply IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severly condemned (Read Ex.20:4; 3:17; Deut.27:15; Psalm 115).


14. Holy Water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest, was authorized in .........850


15. The veneration of St.Joseph began in............................................................................890


16. The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV, in the year...................................965


17. Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV in...................................................995


Every believer and follower of Christ is called saint in the Bible (Read Rom.1:7; I Cor.1:2).


18. Fasting on Fridays and during Lent were imposed in the year.........................................998


Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. (Bull, or permit to eat meat), some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible (Read Matt.15:10; I Cor.10:25; I Tim.4:1-3).


19. The Mass was developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory in the 11th century.


The Bible teaches that the sacrifice of Christ was offered once and for all, and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lord's Supper (Read Heb.7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14).


20. The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VIII, in ......1079


Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St.Peter was a married man, and St.Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children (Read I Tim.3:2,5 and 12; Matt.8:14-15).


21. The Rosary, or prayer beads was introduced by Peter the Hermit, in the year 1090. Copied from Hindus and Mohammedans.


The counting of prayers is a pagan practice and is expressly condemned by Christ (Matt.6:5-13).


22. The Inquisition of heretics was instituted by the Council of Verona in the year 1184. Jesus never taught the use of force to spread His religion.................................................................1184


23. The sale of Indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin, began in the year..............................................................................................1190


Christianity, as taught in the Bible, condemns such a traffic, and it was the protest against this traffic that brought on the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century.


24. The dogma of Transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III, in the year...........1215


By this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of his people during Mass. The Bible condemns such absurdities; for the Lord's Supper is simply a memorial of sacrifice of Christ. The spiritual presence of Christ is implied in the Lord's Supper. (Read Luke 22:19-20; John 6:35; I Cor.11:26).


25. Confession of sins to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III, in the Lateran Council, in the year.............................................................................................1215


The Bible commands us to confess our sins direct to God. (Read Psa.51:1-10; Luke 7:48; 15:21; I John 1:8-9).


26. The adoration of the wafer (Host), was decreed by Pope Honorius in the year..............1220


So the Roman Church worships a god made human hands. This is plain idolatry and absolutely contrary to the spirit of the gospel. (Read John 4:24).


27. The Bible forbidden to layman and placed in the Index of forbidden books by the
Council of Valencia in...........................................................................................................1229


Jesus commanded that the Scriptures should be read by all (John 5:39; I Tim.3:15-17).


28. The Scapular was invented by Simon Stock, an English monk, in the year.......................1287


It is a piece of brown cloth, with the picture of the Virgin and supposed to contain supernatural virtue to protect from all dangers those who wear it on naked skin. This is fetishism.


29. The Roman Church forbade the cup to the laity, by instituting the communion of one kind in the Council of Constance in 1414


The Bible commands us to celebrate the Lord's Supper with unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine (Read Matt.26:27; I Cor. 11:26-29).


30. The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by the
Council of Florence in...........................................................................................................1439


There is not one word in the Bible that would teach the purgatory of priests. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sins. (Read I John 1:7-9; 2:1-2; John 5:24; Rom.8:1).


31. The doctrine of 7 Sacraments affirmed in ......................................................................1439


The Bible says that Christ instituted only two ordinances, Baptism and the Lord's Supper. (Read Mt.28:19-20; 26:26-28).


32. The Ave Maria, part of the last half in ..........................................................................1508


It was completed 50 years afterward and finally approved by Pope Sixtus V., at the end of the 16th century.


33. The Council of Trent, held in the year 1545, declared that Tradition is of equal authority
with the Bible........................................................................................................................1545


By tradition is meant human teachings. The Pharisees believed the same way, and Jesus bitterly condemned them, for by teaching human tradition, they nullify the commandments of God (Read Mark 7:7-13; Col.2:8; Rev.22:18).


34. The apocryphal books were added to the Bible also by the Council of Trent in...............1546


These books were not recognized as canonical by the Jewish Church (See Rev.22:8-9).


35. The Creed of Pope Pius IV was imposed as the official creed 1528 years after
Christ and the apostles, in ....................................................................................................1560


True Christians retain the Holy Scriptures as their creed. Hence their creed is more than 1528 older than the creed of Roman Catholics (Read Gal.1:8).


36. The Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX in .....1854


The Bible states that all men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Saviour (Read Rom.3:23; 5:12; Psa.51:5; Luke 1:30, 46, 47).


37. In the year 1870 after Christ, Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of Papal Infallibility..1870


This is a blasphemy and a sign of the apostasy and of the anti-christ predicted by St.Paul (Read II Th. 2:2-12; Rev. 17:1-9; 13:5-8,18).


Many Bible students see the number of the beast (Rev.13:18), 666 in the Roman letters of the Pope's title:"VICARIVS FILII DEI". - V-5, I-1, C-100, I-1, V-5, I-1, L-50, I-1; D-500, I-1 - Total, 666.


38. Pope Pius X, in the year 1907, condemned together with "Modernism", all the discoveries
of modern science which are not approved by the Church....................................................1907


Pius IX had done the same thing in the Syllabus of 1864.


39. In the year 1930 Pius XI, condemned the Public Schools.............................................1930


40. In the year 1931 the same pope Pius XI, reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is
"the Mother of God".........................................................................................................1931


This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. This heresy contrary by Mary's own words (Read Lk. 1:46-49; Jn. 2:1-5).


41. In the year 1950 the last dogma was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII, the
Assumption of the Virgin Mary.........................................................................................1950


CONCLUSION


What will be the next invention? The Roman Church says it never changes; yet, it has done nothing else but invent new doctrines which are contrary to the Bible, and has practiced rites and ceremonies taken bodily from paganism. Some scholar has found that 75% of the rites and ceremonies of the Roman Church are of pagan origin.


Note:- Cardinal Newman, in his book, "The Development of the Christian Religion", admits that..."Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays and season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns), images....are all of pagan origin..." (page 359).


HERESIES are those doctrines and practices which are contrary to the Bible. They are also called "human traditions" or "doctrines of men". Both Peter and Paul predicted and warned that in the later times "false teachers" would rise within the Church and bring in "damnable heresies" and "doctrines of devils". (Read 2nd Peter 2:1-3, and 1st Timothy 3:2-5). Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, for they transgressed the commandments of God by keeping their traditions, "In vain", He said, "they worship me by keeping for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:3,9).


The real heretics therefore , are the Roman Catholics and the true orthodox are the Evangelical Christians.


BRETHREN! The Word of God commands us to get out of Babylon, saying: "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."(Revelation 18:4). All true Christians will remain faithful to the religion of Christ as taught in the Bible, and heed the warning of the Apostle Paul, who said: "But thought we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8).

So anything not literally in the Bible is heretical?

 

[LeroyDumonde]

So anything not literally in the Bible is heretical?

Sola Scriptura is not in the Bible so it must be heresy.

 

[ninja007]

Sola Scriptura is not in the Bible so it must be heresy.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 tim 3;16

 

[ninja007]

Revelation 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words ...​

Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com › revelation





I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Sola Scriptura is not in the Bible so it must be heresy.

Neither Ninja7's handle name or real name are mentioned in Scripture

so I guess the dude's going to Hell!

so goes the logic..!

 

[forkintheroad7]

Sola Scriptura is not in the Bible so it must be heresy.

LOL

to believe in sola scriptura is to throw out just about the entire New Testament

AND

the entire OLD as well

What was all that wrath of God stuff about anyhow, in the OT? I guess God no longer gets angry with sin?

(to hear some tell)

 

[forkintheroad7]

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 tim 3;16

That does not say that Scripture alone is all one needs to get to Heaven

faulty logic

 

[LeroyDumonde]

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 tim 3;16

That is not a doctrine of Sola Scriptura, and besides, when the NT talks about scripture it means the OT. However without the NT Christianity is a barren wasteland of theology.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Revelation 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words ...​

View attachment 958238
Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com › revelation





I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book.

Protestants add to the Bible all the time

sola scriptura is an addition
once saved always saved.. ditto

And Luther TOOK AWAY

He removed 7 Books from the Old Testament

 

[ninja007]

Protestants add to the Bible all the time

sola scriptura is an addition
once saved always saved.. ditto

And Luther TOOK AWAY

He removed 7 Books from the Old Testament

catholics added an entire book called the catechism. and theres dozens of verses proving osas.

 

[ninja007]

Protestants add to the Bible all the time

sola scriptura is an addition
once saved always saved.. ditto

And Luther TOOK AWAY

He removed 7 Books from the Old Testament

Following is a summarized paragraph with references found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) of many of the false teachings of Roman Catholicism. How do we know they are false? By comparing Scripture with what is taught.

---

The Catholic Church is the one true church (CCC 2105), Infallibility of the Catholic Church, (CCC 2035), Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture (CCC 100), The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ (CCC 2034), The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation (CCC 846), Sacred Tradition equal to scripture (CCC 82), Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works (CCC 2036 CCC 2080 2068), Full benefit of Salvation is only through the Roman Catholic Church (Vatican 2, Decree on Ecumenism, 3), Grace can be merited (CCC 2010 CCC 2027), The merit of Mary and the Saints can be applied to Catholics and others (1477), Penance is necessary for salvation (CCC 980), Purgatory (CCC 1031 CCC 1475), Indulgences (CCC 1471 CCC 1478 CCC 1498 CCC 1472), Mary is Mediatrix (CCC 969), Mary brings us the gifts of eternal salvation (CCC 969), Mary delivers souls from death (CCC 966), Prayer to the saints (CCC 2677), The Communion elements become the actual body and blood of Christ (CCC 1374 CCC 1376).

1. The Catholic church is the one true church
   1. CCC 2105 “The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is ‘the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ.’ By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them ‘to infuse the Christian spirit into the mentality and mores, laws and structures of the communities in which [they] live.’ The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church. Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.”
2. Infallibility of the Catholic Church
   1. CCC 2035, “The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed.”
3. Only the Roman Catholic Church has the authority to interpret Scripture
   1. CCC 100, “The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.”
4. The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ
   1. CCC 2034, “The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are ‘authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them, the faith to be believed and put into practice.’ The ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops in communion with him teach the faithful the truth to believe, the charity to practice, the beatitude to hope for.”
5. The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation
   1. CCC 846, “How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.”
6. Sacred Tradition equal to scripture
   1. CCC 82, “…the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation are entrusted, does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.'”
7. Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works
   1. CCC 2036, “The specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the creator, is necessary for salvation.”
   2. CCC 2080, “The Decalogue contains a privileged expression of the natural law. It is made known to us by divine revelation and by human reason.”
   3. CCC 2068, “so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments,”
8. The full benefit of Salvation is only through the Roman Catholic Church
   1. “For it is only through Christ’s Catholic Church, which is “the all-embracing means of salvation,” that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation,” (Vatican 2, Decree on Ecumenism, 3).
9. Grace can be merited
   1. CCC 2010, “Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification.”
   2. CCC 2027, “Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.”
10. The merit of Mary and the Saints can be applied to Catholics and others
    1. 1477, “This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission in the unity of the Mystical Body.”
11. Penance is necessary for salvation
    1. CCC 980, “This sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation for those who have fallen after Baptism, just as Baptism is necessary for salvation for those who have not yet been reborn.”
12. Purgatory
    1. CCC 1031, “The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
    2. CCC 1475, “In the communion of saints, “a perennial link of charity exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home, those who are expiating their sins in purgatory and those who are still pilgrims on earth. Between them there is, too, an abundant exchange of all good things.” In this wonderful exchange, the holiness of one profits others, well beyond the harm that the sin of one could cause others. Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin.
13. Indulgences
    1. CCC 1471, “The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance. What is an indulgence? ‘An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.’ ‘An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin.’ The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead.”
    2. CCC 1478, “An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.
    3. CCC 1498, “Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory.”
    4. CCC 1472, “…On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin…”
14. Mary (there are many false doctrines concerning Mary found in Roman Catholicism, here are a few)
    1. Mary is Mediatrix, CCC 969, “Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.'”
    2. Mary brings us the gifts of eternal salvation, CCC 969, “Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation…”
    3. Mary delivers souls from death, CCC 966, “…You [Mary] conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.”
15. Prayer to the saints
    1. CCC 2677, “By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All-Holy One. We give ourselves over to her now, in the Today of our lives. And our trust broadens further, already at the present moment, to surrender ‘the hour of our death’ wholly to her care.”
16. The Communion elements become the actual body and blood of Christ
    1. CCC 1374, “In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist “the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained.”
    2. CCC 1376, “The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: “Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.”

 

[forkintheroad7]

catholics added an entire book called the catechism. and theres dozens of verses proving osas.

The Bible and the Catechism are NOT the same book. One was NOT added to the other.

I've said this a thousand times here, that we need a CHURCH, an infallible Church to interpret the Word. And Jesus of course KNEW we needed a Church for this and other reasons and He gave us one but people rebelled against Christ (shocker!) and His Church (shocker!). He did call it the Narrow Way... It is human nature to avoid narrow, difficult ways like the plague.

 

[hadit]

Recently I heard commentary addressing this. When I had read/heard these lines before, I had the impression that hell would not prevail over the Church. It was called to our attention that gates are not an offensive measure, but one of defense. And these gates cannot withstand the power of the Body of Christ. These gates will fall. Have you already heard that perspective?

I have, and when you combine that with the commands to put on God's the full armor, it's clear we are expected to do battle, both offensive and defensive, with the enemies of Christ. Being a Christian is NOT a passive pursuit.

 

[hadit]

Maybe.

And maybe Universal means that the Truth of Christ's Church (and there is only ONE of those) applies to everyone, whether they call themselves Catholic or not.. applies to everyone

universally

(likely both)

After all, fornication is not a grievous error for one person but not another. Murdering the unborn... ditto

Christ's Church extends far beyond man's arbitrary and foolish boundaries. Trying to build a wall around your denomination and declaring it the only valid one is not something of which God approves, so stop doing it.

 

[kjw47]

The Catholic Church is the only one that goes back to the beginning of Christ's ministry. No other supposed "church" goes back that far. Catholics consider Protestant "churches" ecclesial communities, somewhat a part of the Church, but not THE CHURCH because there is only ONE of those.

So yeh, we know the Church did not fail as many non-Catholic sects tell us ad nauseum. Some of those will tell you that Constantine started the CC.

Oh... and what was the Church b4 Constantine came along? Know what you'll get when you ask that question? Crickets

No, the Church goes back to the days of Jesus Christ, His Resurrection/Ascension

But in case one does not believe that.. There is this: "I will build My Church" Jesus said "And the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

Mt 16:18

Jesus does not lie

+

That would be a miracle if Catholicism ever had Jesus. They can't even understand simple bible milk. Their own translating exposes them as false religion=2Thess 2:3

 

[Cougarbear]

The Catholic Church is the only one that goes back to the beginning of Christ's ministry. No other supposed "church" goes back that far. Catholics consider Protestant "churches" ecclesial communities, somewhat a part of the Church, but not THE CHURCH because there is only ONE of those.

So yeh, we know the Church did not fail as many non-Catholic sects tell us ad nauseum. Some of those will tell you that Constantine started the CC.

Oh... and what was the Church b4 Constantine came along? Know what you'll get when you ask that question? Crickets

No, the Church goes back to the days of Jesus Christ, His Resurrection/Ascension

But in case one does not believe that.. There is this: "I will build My Church" Jesus said "And the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

Mt 16:18

Jesus does not lie

+

Nauseating again. So, here is the answer. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints goes back to Jesus Christ with authority and no apostasy as Paul said would happen. Say John died in 98 AD. The apostasy was well on it's way. By 107 AD, no apostles means no authority to act in the name of Jesus Christ. However, John the Baptist and Peter, James and John returned in 1829 and began the restoration of the Church they received authority by Jesus Christ himself, to the Prophet Joseph Smith. So, for Satan not to be able to prevail due to full on apostasy by the Catholic Church, the Church was removed from the earth until 1829. In 1830, His Church was legally established by the laws of the United States of America and Hell did not prevail against it. So, we have our roots actually from 33 AD as well. You lose.

 

[Ace Nova]

I have, and when you combine that with the commands to put on God's the full armor, it's clear we are expected to do battle, both offensive and defensive, with the enemies of Christ. Being a Christian is NOT a passive pursuit.

Who are the "enemies of Christ" in your opinion? Other than the past 20-30 years or so - Christianity was well respected throughout the world by almost every other organized religion and the vast majority of governments.

Over the past 30 years or so, Christianity has come to the spotlight in part due to the various scandals of the Catholic Church and even more so by radical Christian denominations who think "Spreading the Gospel" is akin to telling people they will burn in hell unless they become a born again Christian.

Christianity has (in part) itself to blame for "the newfound enemies of Christ" here on Earth - politically and religiously.

Now in the Spiritual sense, yes, we are expected to "do battle" with "spiritual adversaries". But that is something deeply personal to the individual and their spiritual relationship with God. Praying "to have God put his armor on you spiritually" can be a good way for people to feel "spiritually strengthened" but it shouldn't be used to justify radical divisive actions unless it was some sort of "self defense" scenario.

That would be a miracle if Catholicism ever had Jesus. They can't even understand simple bible milk. Their own translating exposes them as false religion=2Thess 2:3

Well, most priests go to 8-9 years of seminary school learning the Bible. Most Catholic lay people also likely went to 12+ years of Catholic School prior to college. I would hope they understand "simple Bible Milk". Feel free to ask me some "Bible Milk" questions, I would love to take a shot at them.


As far as the rest of this back and forth bickering among Christians about semantics, which sect is "true" - which sect is "false", laws, rituals, translations, books as so forth - and using it as a way to divide Christians and isolate/persecute both fellow Christians and non Christians alike - The same exact thing was happening for hundreds of years prior to Jesus' ministry among various Jewish religious sects.

Jesus taught his followers that if you followed his teachings you would understand that all the laws, rituals, commandments, translations and disagreements would be much easier resolved and understood if you "Loved God with all you heart, with all your soul and all your mind" AND "Loved your neighbor as yourself".

What does that mean? It means that 2000 years after Jesus' ministry, many Christians have turned into the same authoritarian, dogmatic, and divisive "powers" in which Jesus and his followers were willing to sacrifice their lives to overcome.

That said, disagreements will always happen when it comes to both religion and politics. Loving God "With all your heart, with all your soul and all your mind" doesn't just mean praying - devotion and prayer - if done with all your mind (logic), heart (truthfully), soul/strength (passion) will strengthen you so that you can "treat one another as you wish to be treated" with ease. When you start there, the respect you show will by default open up better dialogue with those that have different religious and political views. Your first thought wouldn't be "I need to put God's armor on to go to war against those different than me" It would be, "God gave me armor that can even be used as an Olive Branch."

Both the Old Testament and The New Testament (and many other faiths) teach that there are essentially two paths you can choose - and both those paths will pay you back in their own coin. If you choose the path of the Sword - you can expect to eventually be dealt by the Sword. If you choose the path of the Olive Branch, you can expect the Olive Branch to some day be extended back to you. This goes for all things - even day to day decisions.

There will be times that the Sword is the only option - sometimes a firm rebuke and a spanking will resolve the issue - at least temporarily. The same issue may come back again and again - bringing the Sword back to you and so forth until the day that you are able to finally extend the Olive Branch.

 

[kjw47]

Who are the "enemies of Christ" in your opinion? Other than the past 20-30 years or so - Christianity was well respected throughout the world by almost every other organized religion and the vast majority of governments.

Over the past 30 years or so, Christianity has come to the spotlight in part due to the various scandals of the Catholic Church and even more so by radical Christian denominations who think "Spreading the Gospel" is akin to telling people they will burn in hell unless they become a born again Christian.

Christianity has (in part) itself to blame for "the newfound enemies of Christ" here on Earth - politically and religiously.

Now in the Spiritual sense, yes, we are expected to "do battle" with "spiritual adversaries". But that is something deeply personal to the individual and their spiritual relationship with God. Praying "to have God put his armor on you spiritually" can be a good way for people to feel "spiritually strengthened" but it shouldn't be used to justify radical divisive actions unless it was some sort of "self defense" scenario.


Well, most priests go to 8-9 years of seminary school learning the Bible. Most Catholic lay people also likely went to 12+ years of Catholic School prior to college. I would hope they understand "simple Bible Milk". Feel free to ask me some "Bible Milk" questions, I would love to take a shot at them.


As far as the rest of this back and forth bickering among Christians about semantics, which sect is "true" - which sect is "false", laws, rituals, translations, books as so forth - and using it as a way to divide Christians and isolate/persecute both fellow Christians and non Christians alike - The same exact thing was happening for hundreds of years prior to Jesus' ministry among various Jewish religious sects.

Jesus taught his followers that if you followed his teachings you would understand that all the laws, rituals, commandments, translations and disagreements would be much easier resolved and understood if you "Loved God with all you heart, with all your soul and all your mind" AND "Loved your neighbor as yourself".

What does that mean? It means that 2000 years after Jesus' ministry, many Christians have turned into the same authoritarian, dogmatic, and divisive "powers" in which Jesus and his followers were willing to sacrifice their lives to overcome.

That said, disagreements will always happen when it comes to both religion and politics. Loving God "With all your heart, with all your soul and all your mind" doesn't just mean praying - devotion and prayer - if done with all your mind (logic), heart (truthfully), soul/strength (passion) will strengthen you so that you can "treat one another as you wish to be treated" with ease. When you start there, the respect you show will by default open up better dialogue with those that have different religious and political views. Your first thought wouldn't be "I need to put God's armor on to go to war against those different than me" It would be, "God gave me armor that can even be used as an Olive Branch."

Both the Old Testament and The New Testament (and many other faiths) teach that there are essentially two paths you can choose - and both those paths will pay you back in their own coin. If you choose the path of the Sword - you can expect to eventually be dealt by the Sword. If you choose the path of the Olive Branch, you can expect the Olive Branch to some day be extended back to you. This goes for all things - even day to day decisions.

There will be times that the Sword is the only option - sometimes a firm rebuke and a spanking will resolve the issue - at least temporarily. The same issue may come back again and again - bringing the Sword back to you and so forth until the day that you are able to finally extend the Olive Branch.

Here is simple bible milk--Jesus speaking= Matt 23:9--Do not call any man on earth your Father( as one taking the lead( teacher) in a religion) for there is one your heavenly Father.
Yet the priests are called Father, the Pope elevates himself into Gods position by being called holy Father. It wasnt speaking about dads because they did Father their children. God Fathered 100% of the spiritual truths, one taking the lead Fathered 0 of them--That is what Jesus was talking about. They have had 1750 years and cannot understand that simple truth.

 

[Cougarbear]

Here is simple bible milk--Jesus speaking= Matt 23:9--Do not call any man on earth your Father( as one taking the lead( teacher) in a religion) for there is one your heavenly Father.
Yet the priests are called Father, the Pope elevates himself into Gods position by being called holy Father. It wasnt speaking about dads because they did Father their children. God Fathered 100% of the spiritual truths, one taking the lead Fathered 0 of them--That is what Jesus was talking about. They have had 1750 years and cannot understand that simple truth.

Funny story when I was teaching at a Catholic High School. We were having a special mass in our school library for teachers and administration. The "Father" priest conducting the mass read that scripture as part of a prayer he was giving. I opened my eyes to see another teacher have his eyes open with a puzzled look on his fact. He was Catholic.
In any event, I would also not be taught doctrine by someone who learned from the JW's prophets-scholars who for 8 times tried to give the exact date of the end of the world when Jesus said only his Father knows that.

 

[kjw47]

Funny story when I was teaching at a Catholic High School. We were having a special mass in our school library for teachers and administration. The "Father" priest conducting the mass read that scripture as part of a prayer he was giving. I opened my eyes to see another teacher have his eyes open with a puzzled look on his fact. He was Catholic.
In any event, I would also not be taught doctrine by someone who learned from the JW's prophets-scholars who for 8 times tried to give the exact date of the end of the world when Jesus said only his Father knows that.

Yes only the Father knows because he is the only true God.