The Ultimate Tool for Redemption

[CorvusRexus]

The key word? IF! There is no indication that the rebellious angels ever repented or ever plan to. God transcends time and knows the outcome of His Story (history). There is no indication in the prophetic portions of the Bible that the fallen angels will ever turn from the path that they chose in the beginning (biblically speaking).

So God created them knowing they would rebel and they would corrupt humanity and damn themselves and so many others to eternal damnation?


Sure signs of a merciful and loving God right there!

God did more than you by taking responsibility for Adam's sin by dying on the cross. What have you done to take responsibility for Adam's sin?

Aye, but God knew Adam would rebel. I didn't and have no responsibility for it. God, however, is completely responsible.
Again, answer me how God could create Satan knowing Satan would rebel and damn so many of his other creations to Hell?

 

[Chuckt]

So God created them knowing they would rebel and they would corrupt humanity and damn themselves and so many others to eternal damnation?


Sure signs of a merciful and loving God right there!

God did more than you by taking responsibility for Adam's sin by dying on the cross. What have you done to take responsibility for Adam's sin?

Aye, but God knew Adam would rebel. I didn't and have no responsibility for it. God, however, is completely responsible.
Again, answer me how God could create Satan knowing Satan would rebel and damn so many of his other creations to Hell?

That is false. Once you have children, you aren't responsible for them committing crimes once they are adult. You aren't responsible for burying your parents when they die but we do because we love them. It doesn't follow.

 

[Chuckt]

So they are simply refuse to you? What part of scripture says "When I am in prison discard Me. Weep not for Me."
The only options you see are execution or release?
Your cavalier attitude toward human life is surprising, to say the least.

As CBS 2’s Elise Finch reported Tuesday, a convicted criminal recently had been let out of prison, when he allegedly robbed the same store in Toms River, N.J. that put him there 15 years ago.

Cops: Man Robs Same NJ Store He Robbed 15 Years Earlier On Day After Release From Prison « CBS New York

This is the man you are trying to rehabilitate. Enlighten me.

This doesn't begin to reply to my post.

I replied. You refused to answer.

 

[Chuckt]

Oh really? Well then in that case Satan is a good thing. And so is Hell.

And is being twisted with sin is so much better or would mankind prefer being robots so they weren't twisted with sin?

I'm free, I'm happy, I'm going some place fantastic where I will have worry free living and I'm not going to be bothered with hell.

So you admit sin is a good thing? And it makes you happy to live in a world full of sin?
I admit living a sinful world makes life more exciting, but you didn't really answer my point. God created sin and evil by your reasoning, and liked it. If you follow that chain of reasoning, God is either not inherently good, or is a psychopath.

No. It makes you realize what you have.

 

[CorvusRexus]

God did more than you by taking responsibility for Adam's sin by dying on the cross. What have you done to take responsibility for Adam's sin?

Aye, but God knew Adam would rebel. I didn't and have no responsibility for it. God, however, is completely responsible.
Again, answer me how God could create Satan knowing Satan would rebel and damn so many of his other creations to Hell?

That is false. Once you have children, you aren't responsible for them committing crimes once they are adult. You aren't responsible for burying your parents when they die but we do because we love them. It doesn't follow.

If you knew your children would rebel and end up in eternal agony, would you still have them? Or, because you apparently have the power to do whatever you want, would you manipulate circumstances to keep them from suffering?
God knew people would be damned, but he made them exactly the same way. He refuses to use his power to save us.
Jesus may have came to save us, but that success was limited. In your reasoning, people still go to Hell. God didn't fix anything. He just gave people like you excuses and weak arguments to use against rationality and reason.

 

[CorvusRexus]

And is being twisted with sin is so much better or would mankind prefer being robots so they weren't twisted with sin?

I'm free, I'm happy, I'm going some place fantastic where I will have worry free living and I'm not going to be bothered with hell.

So you admit sin is a good thing? And it makes you happy to live in a world full of sin?
I admit living a sinful world makes life more exciting, but you didn't really answer my point. God created sin and evil by your reasoning, and liked it. If you follow that chain of reasoning, God is either not inherently good, or is a psychopath.

No. It makes you realize what you have.

A world full of sin and death because of God?

 

[Chuckt]

So you admit sin is a good thing? And it makes you happy to live in a world full of sin?
I admit living a sinful world makes life more exciting, but you didn't really answer my point. God created sin and evil by your reasoning, and liked it. If you follow that chain of reasoning, God is either not inherently good, or is a psychopath.

No. It makes you realize what you have.

A world full of sin and death because of God?

God didn't sin. It wasn't His choice. He said to not eat from the tree. Got that?

 

[Chuckt]

Aye, but God knew Adam would rebel. I didn't and have no responsibility for it. God, however, is completely responsible.
Again, answer me how God could create Satan knowing Satan would rebel and damn so many of his other creations to Hell?

That is false. Once you have children, you aren't responsible for them committing crimes once they are adult. You aren't responsible for burying your parents when they die but we do because we love them. It doesn't follow.

If you knew your children would rebel and end up in eternal agony, would you still have them? Or, because you apparently have the power to do whatever you want, would you manipulate circumstances to keep them from suffering?
God knew people would be damned, but he made them exactly the same way. He refuses to use his power to save us.
Jesus may have came to save us, but that success was limited. In your reasoning, people still go to Hell. God didn't fix anything. He just gave people like you excuses and weak arguments to use against rationality and reason.

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There are sheep and there are goats. I believe God created sheep. I don't believe God created goats.

Jesus said that some are of their father the devil.

Maybe some of our DNA got mixed up when Adam ate that apple. Some are sheep and others are goats. It wasn't God's doing. It was the serpent's doing.

 

[koshergrl]

It's God's doing in that everything is part of His plan. Our love for him is without value and means nothing if we have no choice, and our devotion is meaningless if we don't choose to worship Him.

Our misery on earth will be nothing but distant, brief blips on the radar of our eternal joy with our Father. Pain and suffering on this earth serve to temper, hone and prepare us.

 

[thebrucebeat]

That is false. Once you have children, you aren't responsible for them committing crimes once they are adult. You aren't responsible for burying your parents when they die but we do because we love them. It doesn't follow.

If you knew your children would rebel and end up in eternal agony, would you still have them? Or, because you apparently have the power to do whatever you want, would you manipulate circumstances to keep them from suffering?
God knew people would be damned, but he made them exactly the same way. He refuses to use his power to save us.
Jesus may have came to save us, but that success was limited. In your reasoning, people still go to Hell. God didn't fix anything. He just gave people like you excuses and weak arguments to use against rationality and reason.

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There are sheep and there are goats. I believe God created sheep. I don't believe God created goats.

Jesus said that some are of their father the devil.

Maybe some of our DNA got mixed up when Adam ate that apple. Some are sheep and others are goats. It wasn't God's doing. It was the serpent's doing.

So there is a different creator that made some things?

 

[Chuckt]

If you knew your children would rebel and end up in eternal agony, would you still have them? Or, because you apparently have the power to do whatever you want, would you manipulate circumstances to keep them from suffering?
God knew people would be damned, but he made them exactly the same way. He refuses to use his power to save us.
Jesus may have came to save us, but that success was limited. In your reasoning, people still go to Hell. God didn't fix anything. He just gave people like you excuses and weak arguments to use against rationality and reason.

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There are sheep and there are goats. I believe God created sheep. I don't believe God created goats.

Jesus said that some are of their father the devil.

Maybe some of our DNA got mixed up when Adam ate that apple. Some are sheep and others are goats. It wasn't God's doing. It was the serpent's doing.

So there is a different creator that made some things?

God made Adam and Eve.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There are sheep and there are goats. I believe God created sheep. I don't believe God created goats.

Jesus said that some are of their father the devil.

Maybe some of our DNA got mixed up when Adam ate that apple. Some are sheep and others are goats. It wasn't God's doing. It was the serpent's doing.

So there is a different creator that made some things?

God made Adam and Eve.

Who made the Serpent?

 

[CorvusRexus]

That is false. Once you have children, you aren't responsible for them committing crimes once they are adult. You aren't responsible for burying your parents when they die but we do because we love them. It doesn't follow.

If you knew your children would rebel and end up in eternal agony, would you still have them? Or, because you apparently have the power to do whatever you want, would you manipulate circumstances to keep them from suffering?
God knew people would be damned, but he made them exactly the same way. He refuses to use his power to save us.
Jesus may have came to save us, but that success was limited. In your reasoning, people still go to Hell. God didn't fix anything. He just gave people like you excuses and weak arguments to use against rationality and reason.

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There are sheep and there are goats. I believe God created sheep. I don't believe God created goats.

Jesus said that some are of their father the devil.

Maybe some of our DNA got mixed up when Adam ate that apple. Some are sheep and others are goats. It wasn't God's doing. It was the serpent's doing.

But God created Satan and knew that would happen, thus, God is still responsible.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You can hold Him responsible for creating mankind, but you can't hold Him responsible for the actions of man. Free will often keeps us at odds with God. My will vs God's will is our decision, not God's.

He did know the struggle we would have with sin and Satan. But He wanted eternal children. He wanted us forever. So, He sent a remedy for any problems Satan may create for us.
The adversities in this short vapor of time on earth strengthen us.
You have to understand that this brief time of the tempting of God's children by Christ's adversary Satan, is less than a second of your eternity. Christ is coming back down and Satan is goin down. This is just the beginning. And the next phase is awesome.

 

[Chuckt]

If you knew your children would rebel and end up in eternal agony, would you still have them? Or, because you apparently have the power to do whatever you want, would you manipulate circumstances to keep them from suffering?
God knew people would be damned, but he made them exactly the same way. He refuses to use his power to save us.
Jesus may have came to save us, but that success was limited. In your reasoning, people still go to Hell. God didn't fix anything. He just gave people like you excuses and weak arguments to use against rationality and reason.

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There are sheep and there are goats. I believe God created sheep. I don't believe God created goats.

Jesus said that some are of their father the devil.

Maybe some of our DNA got mixed up when Adam ate that apple. Some are sheep and others are goats. It wasn't God's doing. It was the serpent's doing.

But God created Satan and knew that would happen, thus, God is still responsible.

No. You can have children. Are they always going to do good? Do you hold yourself responsible for their mistakes? No.

I put together equipment one time. Another person at the company started the process. The equipment destroyed itself. Is it my fault? You can't be held liable for lets say...using a cash register and it breaking on its own. You can't be held responsible for breaks wearing out. Does your employer expect you to never use the breaks on a company car?

They were taught to guard the garden. It was their choice to disobey. It wasn't God's choice for them to disobey.

 

[PainefulTruth]

Do you cry about those who are on death row? Do you stay up night worrying about their fate?

How is a quick and virtually painless death equal to an eternal hell?

Do you think letting them out would be a good idea especially when some of them would kill again? If the answer is "No" then I'll assure you that most people aren't worrying.

If you'll remember, I said they would have the option, besides hell, of oblivion. How is that equivalent to releasing them? You're being intentionally disingenuous, but only with yourself.

A world full of sin and death because of God?

No. God, if It exists, merely created a universe that spawned the likes of us with the ability to choose to violate the rights of others ("sin", if you will) or not.

It's God's doing in that everything is part of His plan. Our love for him is without value and means nothing if we have no choice, and our devotion is meaningless if we don't choose to worship Him.

And we worship God by the pursuit of Truth, not the invented myths of the ancients. And part of that Truth is acknowledging that we can't really know if God exists or not.

Our misery on earth will be nothing but distant, brief blips on the radar of our eternal joy with our Father. Pain and suffering on this earth serve to temper, hone and prepare us.

I agree. The pain we cause each other, and the suffering we endure due to natural causes, would be a fading memory against the backdrop of eternity.

But God created Satan and knew that would happen, thus, God is still responsible.

God (if It exists) only created us with the gift of free will. That makes us responsible.

You can hold Him responsible for creating mankind, but you can't hold Him responsible for the actions of man. Free will often keeps us at odds with God. My will vs God's will is our decision, not God's.

I'm sure that God is only watching. If we knew God exists and was watching, it would influence our choices. God (if It exists), has gone to a whole lot of trouble to hide It's existence, AND not to plant any evidence making it seem that It doesn't exist (which would be a lie).

He did know the struggle we would have with sin and Satan. But He wanted eternal children. He wanted us forever. So, He sent a remedy for any problems Satan may create for us.

And the remedy that both Jesus and John the Baptizer promoted, is repentance.

The adversities in this short vapor of time on earth strengthen us.

"This short vapor of time", I like it, similar to my "backdrop of eternity".

You have to understand that this brief time of the tempting of God's children by Christ's adversary Satan, is less than a second of your eternity. Christ is coming back down and Satan is goin down. This is just the beginning. And the next phase is awesome.

If we accept Satan/the Devil as a symbol for temptation, I agree. There's no external force tempting or trying to influence us--that's the meaning of free will.

 

[Chuckt]

If you knew your children would rebel and end up in eternal agony, would you still have them? Or, because you apparently have the power to do whatever you want, would you manipulate circumstances to keep them from suffering?
God knew people would be damned, but he made them exactly the same way. He refuses to use his power to save us.
Jesus may have came to save us, but that success was limited. In your reasoning, people still go to Hell. God didn't fix anything. He just gave people like you excuses and weak arguments to use against rationality and reason.

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There are sheep and there are goats. I believe God created sheep. I don't believe God created goats.

Jesus said that some are of their father the devil.

Maybe some of our DNA got mixed up when Adam ate that apple. Some are sheep and others are goats. It wasn't God's doing. It was the serpent's doing.

But God created Satan and knew that would happen, thus, God is still responsible.

My stepmother went to the pharmacist and got the wrong medicine and she totalled her car. She couldn't hold the pharmacist responsible legally. Ask a lawyer these things. Why do you think that is? Because there is a mutual responsibility to read her name and since she didn't, the pharmacist couldn't be held responsible.

God said don't eat from the tree. Adam didn't listen.

 

[Chuckt]

Do you cry about those who are on death row? Do you stay up night worrying about their fate?

How is a quick and virtually painless death equal to an eternal hell?

Do you think letting them out would be a good idea especially when some of them would kill again? If the answer is "No" then I'll assure you that most people aren't worrying.

If you'll remember, I said they would have the option, besides hell, of oblivion. How is that equivalent to releasing them? You're being intentionally disingenuous, but only with yourself.

I never said it was equal. Stop worrying about what I didn't say.

 

[PainefulTruth]

Do you cry about those who are on death row? Do you stay up night worrying about their fate?

How is a quick and virtually painless death equal to an eternal hell?

If you'll remember, I said they would have the option, besides hell, of oblivion. How is that equivalent to releasing them? You're being intentionally disingenuous, but only with yourself.

I never said it was equal. Stop worrying about what I didn't say.

Well then, what (the hell) were you saying?

 

[Chuckt]

How is a quick and virtually painless death equal to an eternal hell?

If you'll remember, I said they would have the option, besides hell, of oblivion. How is that equivalent to releasing them? You're being intentionally disingenuous, but only with yourself.

I never said it was equal. Stop worrying about what I didn't say.

Well then, what (the hell) were you saying?

I'm saying that if you don't care about those on death row then don't bother me about the justice of God.